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Hot!EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club

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bcavnaugh
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2019/06/07 16:38:51 (permalink)
EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club
Posting Requirements: Please Own the Following Hardware
EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N GAMING, 11G-P4-2589-KR, 11GB GDDR6, iCX2 Technology, HYBRID Cooler, OLED Display, Metal Backplate
+
EVGA Hydro Copper Waterblock for EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N, 400-HC-1589-B1
+
Any Custom Water Loop, Chiller, or Sub Zero Cooling Products.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:57:43


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 16:39:39 (permalink)


    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:58:24


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 16:39:48 (permalink)
    Chiller    EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller
     
    $1,699.99 EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller   Part No.  EXC-800
    Koolance's EXC-800 is a portable recirculating liquid chiller rated at 800W, or 2730 BTU/hr (@25°C liquid & ambient). Chiller control is based on one of four configurable temperature set-points, including the option to lock liquid to ambient for avoiding condensation or to an external K-type thermocouple sensor (not included).
    Along with temperature and set-point, EXC-800 can report internal coolant flow rate, pump RPM, and condenser fan RPM on a customizable 2-line OLED display. An adjustable relay trigger output on the rear of the unit is available based on temperature.
    • Cooling capacity: 800W (2730BTU/hr) @ 25°C liquid/ambient
    • Temperature options: liquid set-point (1 to 50°C), external thermocouple set-point (1 to 149°C), liquid and ambient delta-T (-50 to 50°C), external thermocouple and ambient delta-T (-50 to 50°C); toggle °C/°F
    • Pump: 10 manual levels, up to 11LPM (2.9 GPM)
    • Select only values you want displayed on the front 2-line OLED display (fixed or rotating)
    • Show pump impeller speed in RPM
    • Show coolant flow rate in LPM/GPM
    • Show condenser fan speed in RPM
    • Adjust audio alarm based on temperature
    • Relay trigger can be configured as NO or NC and adjusted based on temperature
    • Refrigerant: R-134a
    • Power input: 120VAC, 60Hz
    • Maximum power consumption @ ambient (approximate): 450W @ 25°C, 650W @ 35°C
    • Designed for an operational temperature range of 0-40°C (ambient and liquid)
    • Reservoir capacity: 3 liters
    • G 1/4 BSPP threads on back for fittingsNOTE: Requires 120VAC, 60Hz input power. Keep unit upright at all times, and for at least 24 hours before applying power to ensure sufficient oil reaches the compressor.
      Diagram - exc-800_d1.pdf
      3D Model - exc-800.step.zip
      Manual - manual_exc-800_d100eng.pdf
      $89.99 Koolance 702 Liquid Coolant, High-Performance, UV Blue, 5000ml (169 fl oz)   Part No.  LIQ-702BU-05L
      Koolance 702 series coolant is used by many industries requiring a high performance, low-toxicity, reliable coolant with corrosion and biological inhibitors. A high quality coolant is extremely important for addressing dissimilar metals and biologic growth (bacterial and algae) long-term. Koolance liquids will not clog components and can typically be used for 2-3 years before replacement is recommended.This container includes 5 liters (169 fl oz) of prediluted coolant. It's recommended to replace the coolant at least every 2-3 years, or immediately if there is any change in color or clarity.
      The freezing point is -15°C (5°F). This coolant has been tested with the following materials:
      • Metals: copper, brass, aluminum, stainless steel, nickel, steel, gold, lead
      • Plastics: ABS, PA66, PBT, PE, PEI, PES, PETG, PMMA, POM, PP, PPE, PPO, PPS, PTFE, PU, PVC
      • Rubber: EPDM
      NOTE: Not recommended for polycarbonate plastics or other PC-based plastics.
      Manual - safety_data_sheet_koolance_liq-702.pdf
      Color" Blue Electrical Conductivity: (µS/cm) 2500 Freezing Point: -15°C (5ºF) Specific Gravity: @20°C 1.03 UV Reactive: Blue Viscosity: @20°C (cP) 2.3
       
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:58:11


    #3
    bcavnaugh
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 16:57:22 (permalink)
    Benchmarks Runs (Gaming Mode) LIQ-TMP: 18°C Water Temp: 18°C Set Point LIQ-AMB 0°C Coolant Flow 6.2 LPM
    GPU +130 Memory +1200
    API Overhead Test
    10188 Port Royal 
    7966 Time Spy Extreme
    16126 Time Spy
    29033 Fire Strike
    17855 Fire Strike Extreme
    9812 Fire Strike Ultra
    64869 Night Raid
    74397 Sky Diver
    61062 Cloud Gate
    213192 Ice Storm Extreme
    218656 Ice Storm
    227723 Ice Storm Unlimited
    5666 VRMark Blue Room Benchmark Desktop
    15825 VRMark Cyan Room Benchmark Desktop
    13311 VRMark Orange Room Benchmark Desktop
    37300 3DMark 11 Performance
     
    Benchmarks Runs (Extreme Overclocking) LIQ-TMP: 18°C Water Temp: 5°C Set Point LIQ-AMB -16°C Coolant Flow 6.0 LPM
    10480 Port Royal
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:58:57


    #5
    degenerate
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 21:59:43 (permalink)



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    Zeddivile
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 22:32:37 (permalink)

    "This stuff breaks my tiny often dehydrated and carb deprived hamster brain"
     

     

    #7
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/07 22:57:59 (permalink)
    Zeddivile
    Superposition #1
    https://benchmark.unigine...b44ab0842886fd29005afe 32417

    I Still have a ways to catch up https://benchmark.unigine.com/results/rid_a72a1137ad2a4074b6bf06f6f3e53071  28952 Old Score
    Re-Running Now, a little Chilled this time.
    https://benchmark.unigine.com/results/rid_29d10077be494a1e8fceb6f9fd77286a  29173 Result #23
    Oops Did not catch this (Result #1)
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:59:10


    #8
    dwexpress
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 09:01:54 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    What if you use a phase change cooler, LN2 pot, or dry ice pot? Why do you include the HC block as part of your posting requirement? What about an EK block? Allowed?

    Asinine.



    It says water, chiller, or sub zero cooling so LN2 or dry ice pot would be acceptable i would think. As far as Hydro Copper its the only one available for the 2080ti Kingpin other then using a universal gpu cooler with brackets but wasn't worth the last word being put into your post. You should edit that and remove it just for civility of the thread in my opinion.

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    #9
    Neutro
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 09:55:43 (permalink)
    With great setup comes greats results! This is awesome @bcavnaugh congrats 
     
    I'm curious about the vcore, power limit, power consumption and temperatures though  
     
    Are you using a custom kingpin bios provided by the master himself? 
     
    But maybe kingpin himself made you sworn an oath to secrecy? :D
     
    This is how i'm picturing the scene in my head:
     

     
    Thanks for sharing this with us ;)
    post edited by Neutro - 2019/06/08 10:12:35

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    I do not work for EVGA - I try to provide help on my spare time with no guarantee of results.
    If you require official support from EVGA please visit EVGA Service Center.
     
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    #10
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 10:13:43 (permalink)
    Neutro
    With great setup comes greats results! This is awesome @bcavnaugh congrats 
     
    I'm curious about the vcore, power limit, power consumption and temperatures though  
     
    Are you using a custom kingpin bios provided by the master himself? 
     
    But maybe kingpin himself made you sworn an oath to secrecy? :D
     
    Thanks for sharing this with us ;)


    So far I can go down to 3°C on the Water Temperature before I start to see moisture starting to form on the Fittings.
    This keeps the card at 20°C or lower for most sensors but Mem1 and that runs at about 24°C
    Still using the LN2 Bios on the OC Bios and LL @ 0 with Auto Voltage and the Memory just under 1.5000
    I am not using the XOC Bios and most likely never will, but it would be nice to see a new Bios for Cards that have the EVGA Hydro Copper Water Block with the OLED installed. I am using the OLED for everything I am doing with this card to have nothing else running in the background.
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:59:38


    #11
    Neutro
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 10:25:49 (permalink)
    I'm not familiar with kingpin cards sorry :D I wish i'll be able to get one in the future :D
     
    Is this LN2 bios provided with the retail card (using a bios switch on the card itself)?
     
    If so, what's the voltage and power limit you're getting at full load (a GPUZ screenshot would be nice)? :D
     
    I know that for 1080ti max retail bios vcore is 1.093, the XOC bios let you go to 1.2V. So i'm wondering what does this "LN2" bios allow you to reach and if kinpin provides custom bios that allow to bypass any limits :D 
     
    At 20°C full load your card is screaming for more vcore :D But i understand if you dont want to break it seeing how much it costs :D
     
    Would be nice to know EVGA position on warranty on max vcore allowed on custom watercooled kingpin cards too ;) 
     
     

    I do not work for EVGA - I try to provide help on my spare time with no guarantee of results.
    If you require official support from EVGA please visit EVGA Service Center.
     
    Rocking a 980X @ 5 Ghz 6C 12T on EVGA X58 E760 Classified - DDR3 2500 Mhz CL10
    Nvidia GTX 1080Ti @ 2100 Mhz - Everything fully watercooled with a phobya xtreme 1260 radiator!
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    #12
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 10:35:42 (permalink)
    Neutro
    I'm not familiar with kingpin cards sorry :D I wish i'll be able to get one in the future :D
     
    Is this LN2 bios provided with the retail card (using a bios switch on the card itself)?
     
    If so, what's the voltage and power limit you're getting at full load (a GPUZ screenshot would be nice)? :D
     
    I know that for 1080ti max retail bios vcore is 1.093, the XOC bios let you go to 1.2V. So i'm wondering what does this "LN2" bios allow you to reach and if kinpin provides custom bios that allow to bypass any limits :D 
     
    At 20°C full load your card is screaming for more vcore :D But i understand if you dont want to break it seeing how much it costs :D
     
    Would be nice to know EVGA position on warranty on max vcore allowed on custom watercooled kingpin cards too ;) 

    Yes on the LN2 Bios, some put it on the OC or even the Normal Bios to get full fan usage but keep the safety in place.
    The XOC or the kinpin custom bios that allow to bypass any limits not planning on using it.
    So far the Highest I have seen in the last 30 hours was 490 Watt Peek on the OLED.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 20:59:54


    #13
    dwexpress
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 10:36:19 (permalink)
    Neutro
    I'm not familiar with kingpin cards sorry :D I wish i'll be able to get one in the future :D
     
    Is this LN2 bios provided with the retail card (using a bios switch on the card itself)?
     
    If so, what's the voltage and power limit you're getting at full load (a GPUZ screenshot would be nice)? :D
     
    I know that for 1080ti max retail bios vcore is 1.093, the XOC bios let you go to 1.2V. So i'm wondering what does this "LN2" bios allow you to reach and if kinpin provides custom bios that allow to bypass any limits :D 
     
    At 20°C full load your card is screaming for more vcore :D But i understand if you dont want to break it seeing how much it costs :D
     
    Would be nice to know EVGA position on warranty on max vcore allowed on custom watercooled kingpin cards too ;) 
     
     




    The 2080ti kingpin has triple bios via a swith on the card they are  normal, oc, and Ln2 from the factory all with different fan speed profiles. All 3 bios are 520 watts. The LN2 bios removes all the temp and throttling safeguards.  The LN2 bios can be flashed to the OC bios and then that gives maximum fan speeds but retains the tmp/throttling safeguards in place. The classified tool can also be downloaded and used with the kingpin and then you can change the loadline of the video card as well as increase your voltages for the core clock and memory as well.  Here is the link for more kingpin info.    https://xdevs.com/guide/2080ti_kpe/

    Click the bottom code for a 5% to 10% discount on your purchases. 

     

    #14
    Neutro
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 11:40:14 (permalink)
    @dwexpress thanks for the link, i had it in my favorites already but forgot it was there 
     
    Regular bios are limited to 360W if the article is correct:
     

     
    But the thing we cannot see there and which is the most important for people using watercooling is what are the voltages used to reach 2250 mhz :)
     
    @bcavnaugh this is from the xDevs 2080ti article:
     
    In 24/7 daily overclocking using stock Hybrid or full-cover HydroCopper waterblock general suggestion is to leave GPU voltage alone and ensure good airflow in chassis to provide lowest possible GPU temperatures. Only if your cooling methods allow to keep load temperatures below +35…+25 °C you may need to think about voltages. GPU voltage starvation can be detected when GPU temperature under full load reduced 10-20 °C, but stable frequency is not increased and card still crashing.

     

     
    With a 20°C load temperature you should be able to reach 2200 Mhz, which suggest your GPU is "voltage starved" as described above 
     
    If you look in GPUZ in sensors tab you'll see that even with LN2 bios your GPU core voltage is probably limited to 1.093v.
     
    You should definitively go for XOC bios and try to increase the GPU vcore a little bit more and you should be able to reach 2200 Mhz :)
     
    At 20°C i dont think you're risking anything using something between 1.1 and 1.2v. Hell i even used 1.2v on my 1080ti at 40°C full load for testing without any problems 
     
    If you're afraid of breaking your card i suggest you contact EVGA support and ask them if you're allowed to use 1.2V without voiding the warranty considering your setup 
     
    post edited by Neutro - 2019/06/08 11:55:03

    Attached Image(s)


    I do not work for EVGA - I try to provide help on my spare time with no guarantee of results.
    If you require official support from EVGA please visit EVGA Service Center.
     
    Rocking a 980X @ 5 Ghz 6C 12T on EVGA X58 E760 Classified - DDR3 2500 Mhz CL10
    Nvidia GTX 1080Ti @ 2100 Mhz - Everything fully watercooled with a phobya xtreme 1260 radiator!
    Mods Rigs link with pictures - 10 yo rig better than 97% of all results on 3DMark Firestrike 
    #15
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 11:43:27 (permalink)
    Mostly crashes but moving up slowly
    I am up to Core clock 2,205 MHz and Memory bus clock 2,125 MHz Link
    Just have to keep pushing it and RT Benchmarking is different the Old School DX12 and DX11.
    "Regular bios are limited to 360W if the article is correct:" I think it is 520 Watts on a 3 Bios Settings.
    Looking for the Post that talk about.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:00:15


    #16
    dwexpress
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 11:56:14 (permalink)
    Neutro
    @dwexpress thanks for the link, i had it in my favorites already but forgot it was there 
     
    Regular bios are limited to 360W if the article is correct:
     

     
    But the thing we cannot see there and which is the most important for people using watercooling is what are the voltages used to reach 2250 mhz :)
     
    @bcavnaugh this is from the xDevs 2080ti article:
     
    In 24/7 daily overclocking using stock Hybrid or full-cover HydroCopper waterblock general suggestion is to leave GPU voltage alone and ensure good airflow in chassis to provide lowest possible GPU temperatures. Only if your cooling methods allow to keep load temperatures below +35…+25 °C you may need to think about voltages. GPU voltage starvation can be detected when GPU temperature under full load reduced 10-20 °C, but stable frequency is not increased and card still crashing.

     

     
    With a 20°C load temperature you should be able to reach 2200 Mhz, which suggest your GPU is "voltage starved" as described above 
     
    If you look in GPUZ in sensors tab you'll see that even with LN2 bios your GPU core voltage is probably limited to 1.093v.
     
    You should definitively go for XOC bios and try to increase the GPU vcore a little bit more and you should be able to reach 2200 Mhz :)
     
    At 20°C i dont think you're risking anything using something between 1.1 and 1.2v. Hell i even used 1.2v on my 1080ti at 40°C full load for testing without any problems 
     
    If you're afraid of breaking your card i suggest you contact EVGA support and ask them if you're allowed to use 1.2V without voiding the warranty considering your setup 
     




    No the 360 watts is at the 100% power limit in PX1, if you go to max power limit of 144% with the slider you get to the 520 Watts. The XOC bios are not needed for the vcore or memory voltage increase, it can be done with the classified tool.
    post edited by dwexpress - 2019/06/08 11:59:01

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    #17
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 12:02:53 (permalink)
    Playing with the classified tool ATM
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:00:28


    #18
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 14:18:51 (permalink)
    Low Score but High Overclock
    8723 Port Royal Core clock 2,235 MHz Memory bus clock 2,125 MHz
    29070 Fire Strike
    13456 Time Spy
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:00:42


    #19
    Zeddivile
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 16:26:37 (permalink)
    its XOC time...

     
    post edited by Zeddivile - 2019/06/08 16:29:30

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    "This stuff breaks my tiny often dehydrated and carb deprived hamster brain"
     

     

    #20
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 16:54:34 (permalink)
    Best of luck Zeddivile with your endeavor, I hope to see you in the Top 5.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:00:59


    #21
    degenerate
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 18:05:00 (permalink)
    Zeddivile
    its XOC time...

     




    Looking forward to seeing your results!


    #22
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 19:23:58 (permalink)
    New Man On Top https://www.3dmark.com/pr/100856
    No it is not me.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:01:12


    #23
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 19:25:55 (permalink)
    So Close https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/100882/pr/181
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:01:25


    #24
    Zeddivile
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/08 22:37:26 (permalink)
    3DMark 11 (Extreme)
    HOF Single Card #2 -21779 Points
    https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/13342644
     
    Superposition SingleCard#1
    https://benchmark.unigine.com/results/rid_557d126f80024c14a919a83f61dfa8c1


    post edited by Zeddivile - 2019/06/08 22:59:22

    Attached Image(s)


    "This stuff breaks my tiny often dehydrated and carb deprived hamster brain"
     

     

    #25
    Sajin
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/09 01:09:41 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    New Man On Top https://www.3dmark.com/pr/100856
    No it is not me.




    Want to save 5 to 10% on your next EVGA purchase? Just click on the associates banner to save, or enter the associates code at checkout on your next purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
     

     
    #26
    Crimsonghost99
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/09 04:46:29 (permalink)
    I just want to say how awesome it is to see what you guys are able to achieve. I am happy to have a place where folks can, for the most part, share their experiences and knowledge with us lowly peons without the childish negativity that is so rampant on the internet these days. While I know that I will never pull of the numbers you guys are I am glad I can live vicariously through you guys. :) Thank you for sharing your scores and methods. Who knows, you might even inspire someone else to get into sub ambient cooling and Overclocking.
    #27
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/09 12:50:25 (permalink)
    Nice & Cold


    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:05:08


    #28
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N (HC Waterblock) Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/09 14:08:00 (permalink)
    https://www.3dmark.com/spy/7396830 Run 1
    Run 2
    Using EVBOT Now. Setting Voltage to 0 in PX1 Memory + 1560 GPU +135
    Settings GPU Voltage to just under 1.20000 and Memory to just under 1.50000
    Wattage showing on the OLED 423 Watts almost Solid and UPS Unit went from a Max of 640 Watts to Now 760 Watts
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/09 21:01:55


    #29
    dwexpress
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    Re: EVGA RTX 2080 Ti K|NGP|N + HC Waterblock + Water/Chiller/Sub Zero Cooling Club 2019/06/09 14:17:39 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    https://www.3dmark.com/spy/7396830 Run 1
    Run 2
    Using EVBOT Now. Setting Voltage to 0 in PX1 Memory + 1560 GPU +135
    Settings GPU Voltage to just under 1.20000 and Memory to just under 1.50000
    Wattage showing on the OLED 423 Watts almost Solid and UPS Unit went from a Max of 640 Watts to Now 760 Watts
     




    Way to go bcav, keep on chuggin.

    Click the bottom code for a 5% to 10% discount on your purchases. 

     

    #30
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