Ragonrok
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/29 22:11:34
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I guess to know which GPU is better with Ray tracing is to test them using Port Royal and Spy right?
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gimeno
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/29 23:12:06
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Ragonrok
I guess to know which GPU is better with Ray tracing is to test them using Port Royal and Spy right?
Ampere is better than RDNA2. RDNA2 is about on par with Turing when it comes to ray-tracing. So, if either ray-tracing or DLSS are important to you, then Nvidia is the obvious choice. RNDA2 cards are a better value for very similar performance but are behind Nvidia in those two areas.
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tattude69
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 07:28:00
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I do.Unless Evga starts making AMD cards. To me I will take customer service over product any day of the week. All products have failure rates. It's the customer service that makes the difference. Evga just takes a product and refines it. Unfortunately sometimes thier vendors give them crap but they still stand behind it and make it right. That is very rare in corporate America.
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NewValaric
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 07:51:03
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tattude69
I do.Unless Evga starts making AMD cards. To me I will take customer service over product any day of the week. All products have failure rates. It's the customer service that makes the difference. Evga just takes a product and refines it. Unfortunately sometimes thier vendors give them crap but they still stand behind it and make it right. That is very rare in corporate America.
 Agreed! That is why I have switched over to EVGA as I knew more and more about this opaque world of PC enthusiasm!
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jlem2219
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 09:01:09
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bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
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Ciddharthas
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 09:01:44
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gimeno
Ragonrok
I guess to know which GPU is better with Ray tracing is to test them using Port Royal and Spy right?
Ampere is better than RDNA2. RDNA2 is about on par with Turing when it comes to ray-tracing.
So, if either ray-tracing or DLSS are important to you, then Nvidia is the obvious choice. RNDA2 cards are a better value for very similar performance but are behind Nvidia in those two areas.
Don't forget about AMD's infamous driver issues. They *might* not be as much of an issue for the new chipsets/gpu's, but we won't know until the products actually release. They certainly have yet to prove themselves on this front.
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LordGurciullo
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 11:22:54
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ehabash1
keep in mind the 1440p benchmarks that AMD presented was in RAGE MODE which is essentially in overclocked mode... aka more power draw and then comparing overclocked AMD card to stock 3090... Then to make things worse they are comparing it with their cpu+mobo combo which apparently add performance.
Why not compare at 4k? scared your cpu cant carry you like it does in 1440p?
Why not compare stock for stock? why brag about 300watt power but then show only rage mode results....
I think the real reviews will put this back into perspective and tell the real story
Exactamundo.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 11:44:36
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jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
Huh... how did that work out last time? Not well. 'Infinity cache' is simply a 128MB local cache. It does not replace bandwidth, it may help mitigate the massive memory speed deficit caused by using inferior memory and a narrow bus. Bandwidth IS a major issue particularly at higher resolutions. The rest of your post is idle speculation. AMD has a history.... 
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glocked89
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 11:53:06
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jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
I'm not even close to an expert on transistors and density, but I would say the overclocking potential of the 6900XT is probably very low based on the already incredibly high 2250mhz boost clock. Similar to ampere, I think these chips have been pushed pretty hard out of the box to match and "beat" the competition. Theres a reason why AMD didn't show the power draw of the 6900XT with rage mode on...
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vegajf51
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 15:39:47
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glocked89
jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
I'm not even close to an expert on transistors and density, but I would say the overclocking potential of the 6900XT is probably very low based on the already incredibly high 2250mhz boost clock. Similar to ampere, I think these chips have been pushed pretty hard out of the box to match and "beat" the competition. Theres a reason why AMD didn't show the power draw of the 6900XT with rage mode on...
I tend to also agree on the overclocking. TSMC 7nm is just a better node all around. If Nvidia would have put Ampere on TSMC 7nm AMD would have lost by a lot again. Nvidia let AMD catch up the same way Intel did. They let AMD get on a superior manufacturing process ahead of them. Even the PS5 boost over 2200 mhz, and its the same RDNA 2 Arch with an 8 core ryzen strapped to it on the same process node.
post edited by vegajf51 - 2020/10/30 15:42:17
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vegajf51
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 15:47:19
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HeavyHemi
Huh... how did that work out last time? Not well. 'Infinity cache' is simply a 128MB local cache. It does not replace bandwidth, it may help mitigate the massive memory speed deficit caused by using inferior memory and a narrow bus.
Bandwidth IS a major issue particularly at higher resolutions. The rest of your post is idle speculation. AMD has a history....
While I don't blame you for being skeptical, that image you posted was from Vega, the arch AMD came up with when they were totally broke and out of money. They also used Glo flo process which is known to be the worst. Again we will see, I feel your skepticism is valid though but AMD recently has been doing soooo much better.
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gabolton
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 15:49:07
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Sajin
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 16:39:55
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d.burnette
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 16:44:52
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Finding myself looking at that 6900XT more and more, especially with the trouble just trying to get a
3090 FTW3 Ultra. 5 weeks and still cannot buy one.
Save some bucks as well.
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glocked89
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 17:32:16
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vegajf51
glocked89
jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
I'm not even close to an expert on transistors and density, but I would say the overclocking potential of the 6900XT is probably very low based on the already incredibly high 2250mhz boost clock. Similar to ampere, I think these chips have been pushed pretty hard out of the box to match and "beat" the competition. Theres a reason why AMD didn't show the power draw of the 6900XT with rage mode on...
I tend to also agree on the overclocking. TSMC 7nm is just a better node all around. If Nvidia would have put Ampere on TSMC 7nm AMD would have lost by a lot again. Nvidia let AMD catch up the same way Intel did. They let AMD get on a superior manufacturing process ahead of them. Even the PS5 boost over 2200 mhz, and its the same RDNA 2 Arch with an 8 core ryzen strapped to it on the same process node.
But if aibs can clock their versions a couple hundred mhz higher, it's over for the 3080/90. Personally i would love 450 watt 6900xt that clocks to 2400-2600mhz
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Lordim
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 17:58:40
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Still interested in 3090, sorry but as much as AMD may be trying to pull some big guns out, benchmarks show the RTX is a solid performer, the inconsistencies of the Radeon performing better and then not performing better from game to game is not something I want to figure out. Also notice they didn’t release benchmarks in content creation for the Radeon, I’m confident it’s not a solid performer like the 3090 is made to be. It’s clear the new Radeon’s are meant for gaming. And sad to say if it matches the 3090 in gaming but not in content creation, Then its a worse deal . At least with the 3090 their is a purpose for the double price. The Radeon 6900XT is banking on the fact you won’t realize it’s almost twice as much as the 6800XT because of the simplicity of it being better priced than the 3090. Seeing how AMD is touting these cards exchange blows with their competitors it means you will spend almost a 50% increase as a 6800XT for 10% better performance. That and all the programs I mess with are more optimized for Nvidia.
post edited by Lordim - 2020/10/30 18:12:21
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NexusSix
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 18:20:14
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It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
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Hoggle
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 18:59:36
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NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
Not really just see “+direct memory access” and “+Rage Mode” also what is the “See Endnotes RX-567”? Not saying that it’s not a good card but they have multiple flags that make me feel it’s worth waiting for the independent reviews since some of that is dependent on having a modern AMD system. Who knows what happens if you have an Intel system. Who knows what settings are used to optimize the AMD card? Clearly they made references to a document they didn’t release publicly yet.
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romeheroadrian
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 19:42:30
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I'm a little skeptical on the benchmarks AMD released. They for sure used their top of the line 5000 series cpu to take advantage of all the perks you get when combining the two. Even if it is a little slower than the 3090, the 6900XT is the card to buy because it's significantly cheaper. Something else to consider is what you're using the card for. Strictly gaming, 6900XT is the card to get. Productivity, 3090 might be worth the extra cost.
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Lordim
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 20:32:27
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NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
I could say the same for the AMD battered person Syndrome crap going on. I saw them bring up Freesync and then start talking about Rage mode.... and i got a little worried. Why talk about a product as flakey as Freesync then go into talking about rage mode? Makes me worry rage mode will be buggy and flakey like Freesync when it comes out.
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vegajf51
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 20:40:17
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Lordim
NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
I could say the same for the AMD battered person Syndrome crap going on.
I saw them bring up Freesync and then start talking about Rage mode.... and i got a little worried.
Why talk about a product as flakey as Freesync then go into talking about rage mode? Makes me worry rage mode will be buggy and flakey like Freesync when it comes out.
Freesync is only flaky on crappy monitors, that is something Nvidia got right by locking down their standard. They only let G-Sync branding on expensive quality monitors. Freesync is an open standard so AMD can't quality control it. It's like comparing Android to iOS. Andriod experience (like Freesync) can vary widely with price, where ios on iPhones(like G-sync) don't as they are all supported equally with quality hardware.
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bavor
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 20:40:32
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jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
128 MB of cache vs 24 GB of GDDR6X at about twice the bandwidth of the 16 GB on the 6900? I don't think the 128MB will win out when large textures or 4K rendering is factored in. I just got my 3090 today and without bumping up the voltage its already at 2055 MHz on the stock air cooler at 70C running Port Royal. For 70C that's a great speed. I can't wait until the EKWB water blocks are available. EDIT: 2130 MHz during Time Spy. My water cooled RTX 2080 Supers couldn't sustain 2130 MHz when water cooled and staying under 50C.
post edited by bavor - 2020/10/30 23:00:41
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vegajf51
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 20:47:11
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bavor
jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
128 MB of cache vs 24 GB of GDDR6X at about twice the bandwidth of the 16 GB on the 6900? I don't think the 128MB will win out when large textures or 4K rendering is factored in.
I just got my 3090 today and without bumping up the voltage its already at 2055 MHz on the stock air cooler at 70C. For 70C that's a great speed. I can't wait until the EKWB water blocks are available.
While bandwidth is important it isn't everything, The Radeon 7 had more bandwidth than the RTX3090 yet it is much slower. Architecture is always more important. According to AMD the infinity cache is effectively faster for gaming but we will have to see independent reviews. 
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Lordim
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 21:19:16
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vegajf51
Lordim
NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
I could say the same for the AMD battered person Syndrome crap going on.
I saw them bring up Freesync and then start talking about Rage mode.... and i got a little worried.
Why talk about a product as flakey as Freesync then go into talking about rage mode? Makes me worry rage mode will be buggy and flakey like Freesync when it comes out.
Freesync is only flaky on crappy monitors, that is something Nvidia got right by locking down their standard. They only let G-Sync branding on expensive quality monitors. Freesync is an open standard so AMD can't quality control it. It's like comparing Android to iOS. Andriod experience (like Freesync) can vary widely with price, where ios on iPhones(like G-sync) don't as they are all supported equally with quality hardware.
vegajf51
bavor
jlem2219
bandwidth is a non issue on the new AMD cards, the new infinity Cache gives the card just as much if not more bandwidth than GDDR6X. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say if any card has overclocking potential the 6900XT will likely clock way higher than a 3090. 3080/3090 overclocking potential is abysmal, unless you get a golden chip most of these cards become an unstable mess even slightly above base boost clocks, not to mention the insane amount of power they demand from the PSU as you move up.
128 MB of cache vs 24 GB of GDDR6X at about twice the bandwidth of the 16 GB on the 6900? I don't think the 128MB will win out when large textures or 4K rendering is factored in.
I just got my 3090 today and without bumping up the voltage its already at 2055 MHz on the stock air cooler at 70C. For 70C that's a great speed. I can't wait until the EKWB water blocks are available.
While bandwidth is important it isn't everything, The Radeon 7 had more bandwidth than the RTX3090 yet it is much slower. Architecture is always more important. According to AMD the infinity cache is effectively faster for gaming but we will have to see independent reviews.
not instilling confidence in me. my experience as electronics repair screams this Radeon series has too many new stuff to go wrong. that pairing with AMD‘s history with crap Bios, doesn’t make me want to jump onboard just yet. add the, what look like to me, inconsistent benchmarks. I detect possible speed bumps in the road getting so much new features and tech working harmoniously. the 30 series is improving on all the stuff introduced in the 20 series. Not much to worry about there.
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bavor
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/30 21:22:30
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vegajf51
While bandwidth is important it isn't everything, The Radeon 7 had more bandwidth than the RTX3090 yet it is much slower. Architecture is always more important. According to AMD the infinity cache is effectively faster for gaming but we will have to see independent reviews.
You obviously missed the part where I said, "when large textures or 4K rendering is factored in."
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NexusSix
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/31 11:16:37
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Lordim
NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
I could say the same for the AMD battered person Syndrome crap going on.
I saw them bring up Freesync and then start talking about Rage mode.... and i got a little worried.
Why talk about a product as flakey as Freesync then go into talking about rage mode? Makes me worry rage mode will be buggy and flakey like Freesync when it comes out.
Of COURSE you should wait for reviews to make up your mind, but JUST based on preliminary numbers, the price to performance makes the 3090 look like hot garbage. $1100 to step up from a 3080 to a 3090 FTW3 Ultra or $200 to get a 6900XT hmmm tough decision.
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arestavo
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/31 11:23:49
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NexusSix
Lordim
NexusSix
It's like nvidia stockholm syndrome in this thread.
I could say the same for the AMD battered person Syndrome crap going on.
I saw them bring up Freesync and then start talking about Rage mode.... and i got a little worried.
Why talk about a product as flakey as Freesync then go into talking about rage mode? Makes me worry rage mode will be buggy and flakey like Freesync when it comes out.
Of COURSE you should wait for reviews to make up your mind, but JUST based on preliminary numbers, the price to performance makes the 3090 look like hot garbage.
$1100 to step up from a 3080 to a 3090 FTW3 Ultra or $200 to get a 6900XT hmmm tough decision.
Yes, a 3080 Ti would slot nicely in between for a better price to performance bracket. From what I've seen, 30 series raytracing (especially w/ DLSS quality mode) blows the doors off of the 3900XT and below. Of course, that assumes that you can turn on raytracing in the same games with the AMD card, which from their list it looks like that isn't the case (for now).
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moonJuice22
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/31 11:26:47
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I don't trust Radeon drivers, they are very buggy (more-so than nvidia. nvidia isn't perfect but they get theirs fixed quickly).
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gabolton
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/31 11:42:37
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IF, and yes that's a big IF, the independent reviews come in and look good then I'll have a major decision to make.
AMD's new processors essentially curb stomp Intel so going all AMD isn't such a bad thing if maximizing performance is your thing. I do think given all the bricked 30xx cards I've been reading about, the hosed drivers and the nonexistent supply of the 30XX cards it's kind of funny to see the "bad AMD drivers, blah, blah blah" comments. Nvidia definitely has set a pretty low standard for quality with the 30XX series so far.
I'll admit to being shocked at how poorly the Nividia release has gone and tbh I never expected to even be considering AMD for a GPU because I also remember the days of really, REALLY bad AMD drivers but given the current situation if you don't have a 30XX card and aren't wedded to Nividia for some reason why wouldn't you consider AMD?
If I haven't gotten an email from the queue prior to 11/18 for the 3080 FTW 3 Ultra and the reviews of the AMD cards look good I'll definitely be looking at them hard.
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rougeau
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Re: 3090 vs 6900
2020/10/31 12:01:17
(permalink)
tattude69
I do.Unless Evga starts making AMD cards. To me I will take customer service over product any day of the week. All products have failure rates. It's the customer service that makes the difference. Evga just takes a product and refines it. Unfortunately sometimes thier vendors give them crap but they still stand behind it and make it right. That is very rare in corporate America.
Totally, if evga started carrying the 6000s, that would be interesting. I'm very close in line for the 3090 so yes ill still pick it up but I have zero problems with selling it and doing a all red asus build 2 months from now if the reviews and stock is good. Ill need to see how amd is in VR first, im big into DCS and just got excepted into the MFS beta VR testing, so obviously those 2 titles are most important benchmarks for me.
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