bitxan
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 07:03:24
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MSim
One quick way evga could put customers mind at ease, extend the warranty on select GTX 1070/1080 cards. That would show just how much evga stands behind the products they sell.
(example)
If you have a 3 year warranty, it would be bumped up to 5 year warranty.
If you paid to extend 3 year warranty by 2 years, it would be come 10 year warranty.
Not the first time EVGA has given away free warranty upgrades to give customers peace of mind.
I extended the warranty on my GTX 1080 FTW on the same day i registered it. (cost of )
I completely agree, if EVGA is so sure that the hardware is free from danger and subsequent problems to rise to 5 years official guarantee 10 years to buyers who have paid for the extended warranty, it would be a way to reassure the many buyers have lost confidence in EVGA.
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shannonjpower
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 07:46:51
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The things that concern me the most are what happens to the people who: 1. Don't see the new or posts floating about regarding the potential dangers of exploding vrms or prematurely dying cards due to the heat. These people would go about normal overclocking and stress testing without knowing the potentially disastrous consequences. 2. Don't have the confidence or know how to install the new thermals pads. Essentially leaving them with an enthusiast card that's partially gimped. I know I didn't pay top dollar for an enthusiast card only to either limit any overclocking or be forced to up the fan speed and noise. Not something I want to do nor something I paid for. 3. What happens to people who disassemble the card and cause physical damage in the process? I don't think it's fair on the consumer to void warranty returns as the card has been physically damaged when they were trying to install the thermal pads. I can really only see 2 options here for EVGA, either take a hard stance as they do know in regards to physical damage voiding warranty or open themselves up and accept returns on physically damaged 1070's and 1080's that were effected. Point 1 is probably the worst part. It's quite a worrying feeling that people could be leaving stress tests on loop and walking away from a potential fire hazard. I know I'm feeling uneasy leaving my PC on overnight or unattended now for long periods of time. What's it going to take before EVGA decide it's too dangerous and recalls the effected cards? Also another thing that concerns me is we have already started seeing and hearing about these cards dying prematurely and it's only been a few months since release. What about long term effects of users putting their cards through potentially >90c temps for the past few months. How will this effect the lifespan on the components and cards themselves? We all know heat prematurely kills components and running them close to max or above rated temps definitely is asking for trouble. Here in Australia we can easily see ambient temperatures at and above 40c for days/weeks on end, double the 22c ambient temperature of the TomsHardware results. Cards without the thermal pad modification are simply going to cook and potentially turn into ticking time bombs. I think the right thing for EVGA to do right now is to give people the option of RMA'ing their cards and replacing them with new ones or letting them go ahead and install the thermal pads. Forcing people into disassembling a $650AUD GPU is not a way to win customers over nor does it feel the right thing to do. And for people saying "it's optional", I'm certain new cards rolling off the factory floor have the thermals pads already in place. That suggests to me that EVGA don't consider it an option at all but something that's become a necessity. I might be looking into it a little too much (and for everyone's safety I sure hope I am), but for EVGA to acknowledge there is a potential flaw and issue with the card is enough to cause concerns with me. Especially when it regards people's safety.
post edited by shannonjpower - 2016/10/26 09:27:43
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TheGuz4L
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 09:13:11
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So ... how do we know if this is an issue with our cards? I literally just got done RMA'ing my GTX 1080 FTW for the new model with the black screen fix.
I requested the pads, but do I really need to apply them for the card to work properly? So far I haven't had any issues but I am worried now. This is getting ridiculous!
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ksgnow2010
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 09:51:59
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If you read the page where you requested the pads, EVGA said that they were not required...but optional.
Optional means you don't need them to have your card work properly.
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Kirosia
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 11:07:09
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I just purchased and installed a 1060 SC and this news worries me. With the SC, is the memory not situated close to the VRM like the FTW models? I'm fine with things running hot, as long as it's safe and doesn't affect the longevity of the card. Mine currently idles at 28C (50F out) and I was able to game with a few hours at no issue.
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etienne0601
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 11:17:26
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I assume 1070 FTW DT cards do not suffer from this, as I am unable to apply for the pads ? EDIT, never mind. My mistake, first had to upload my invoice.
post edited by etienne0601 - 2016/10/26 11:38:05
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libneon
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 11:20:28
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truebender
Hi all. I live in Russia and bought 1070 FTW week ago. Now everything is fine with it, but i'm little bit disappointed by this situation, coz EVGA is my lovely videocard brand. Under Russian laws "visible fire\electrical damage on electronical components it`s a mark of misuse and cause of warranty denial". Besides in RMA rules on EVGA site wrote "Damaged boxes, or products received in shipping envelopes, or bubble bags will be immediately rejected and returned to the sender" what in Russian post service is an usual thing:). And what can i do? Easier fly over Atlantica to US with my bear, burnt card, borsch, vodka and balalaika and deliver card directly in EVGA office. Guys, please, if there were original EVGA posts with VRM problem acceptance give me a links. I talked with the seller and he needs official info from manufacturer for warranty card change when it`s have visible combusted components. I can`t get answer from email customer service. TY.
Sorry my bad english.
LOL 
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libneon
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 11:21:50
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MSim
One quick way evga could put customers mind at ease, extend the warranty on select GTX 1070/1080 cards. That would show just how much evga stands behind the products they sell.
(example)
If you have a 3 year warranty, it would be bumped up to 5 year warranty.
If you paid to extend 3 year warranty by 2 years, it would be come 10 year warranty.
Not the first time EVGA has given away free warranty upgrades to give customers peace of mind.
http://eu.evga.com/articl...FREE-5-Years-Warranty/
http://www.evga.com/articles/00628/
http://www.evga.com/articles/00713/
I extended the warranty on my GTX 1080 FTW on the same day i registered it. (cost of $30)
Certainly wouldn't be a bad thing...I already lost one 1070.
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mannitu78
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 15:50:12
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btw, the 1060 6GB got even hotter than the 1080 FTW, on Toms Hardware the PCB got more than 110 C hot... http://www.tomshardware.de/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-pascal-gp106-grafikkarten-roundup,testberichte-242152-2.html#3 saw that only few minutes ago, theres another thread here with a 1060 that blew apart, i couldnt believe the pictures from TOMs, like 119 C on torture loop...i didnt even know that was possible with regular Voltage. How ever, Toms Hardware shows how to mod the card, you can use pads to make contact between the heatpipes and the pcb and this way you can lower the temps....i didnt look it up before, i didnt expect the 1060 to generate that much heat. few years ago there were this very unpopular D-PAK Mosfets on entry level Asrock and MSI Boards, which created insane amounts of heat and caused throtteling on some overvolted Sandy-Bridge Boards...somehow the situation reminds me on that.
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bissagars
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 17:29:39
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reading the tomshardware.de full review comparison , the EVGA has high VRM temp, but the Zotac has higher temp and Zotac didn't say anything about that. Full temperature comparison: Zotac GTX 1080 AMP Xtreme VRM 106.9c EVGA GTX 1080 FTW VRM 106.8c Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 has hot spot 97.8c / VRM 82.9c MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X has hot spot 96.7c / VRM 98.2c Gigabyte GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming VRM 83.2c Palit GTX 1080 Game Rock hot spot 82.6c / VRM 76.9 Galax GeForce GTX 1080 HoF VRM 75c
post edited by bissagars - 2016/10/26 17:38:49
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Legacy-ZA
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 22:15:35
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Is there any way I can update the address I would like the thermal pads to be sent to?
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shannonjpower
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 23:12:12
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ksgnow2010
If you read the page where you requested the pads, EVGA said that they were not required...but optional.
Optional means you don't need them to have your card work properly. Well simply because EVGA state it's optional doesn't really mean it is. Sure they might be in a controlled test environment with a moderate ambient temp but that's hardly reflecting real world conditions. Let's take a look at the results from the TomsHwardware 1080 review, keep in mind the results were taken with an ambient temp of 22°C (71°F). I'm not even going to start on the 1060's results which are worse! Metro Last Light is topping 97°c (206.6°F) on the VRM which is definitely on the hot side but within specs. Now take a look at the memory, 95°c (203°F) which is right on the thermal specifications limit and that's before any overclocking. What do you think is going to happen when ambient temps exceed 22°C (71°F)? I'm sure a lot of users like myself live in countries where it's normal to see temperatures upwards of 30°C (86°F), 35°C (95°F) for extended periods of time. I can guarantee without a doubt the memory will be operating well above it's thermal specifications and potentially the VRM's. Sure if you live in an environment with a sub 22°C ambient environment you could easily class the thermal pads as being optional, but face it that's hardly the case for a lot of users. These limits and specifications are set for a reason and operating above them is a no no and asking for prematurely dying components. I'm not sure how EVGA or anyone else can consider them as being optional when tests show components are right on their thermal limits (and exceeding if you take into furmark results) with a relatively moderate ambient temp.
post edited by shannonjpower - 2016/10/26 23:15:22
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seahawkgfx
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 23:39:45
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It is not certain that higher ambient temperature lead to higher temperatures at the VRAM modules, simply because higher ambient temperature will also make the fans spin faster, which increases the airflow and helps cool the plate covering the VRMs and the VRAM. The cooling plate was good enough for the 970/980 (which draw about the same power) but the ACX2.0 fans spun faster. The ACX 3.0 GPU Cooler is stronger, but this means the fans spin slower which means the cooling area for the VRMs should have been bigger. (fins or a a connection to baseplate, GPU cooler)
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NucleusX
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 23:46:45
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lol, and what about all those that might be unknowingly running their cards with gaps between the memory and plate ready to cause irreversible damage from day 1. Wonder just how many cards where sent out in that state alone. A few weak spots materializing here.
post edited by NucleusX - 2016/10/26 23:58:03
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NetQvist
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/26 23:48:06
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Just a confirmation I tested after getting my MSI 1080 Gaming Z.
If I play very cpu limited games (4x instances of Diablo 3 multiboxing) or frame limit a game like Mad Max to 60 the card starts hovering around 60 degrees. This means the gpu fans on stock don't really start spinning more than once per minute at max. I'm pretty sure this is quite damaging to a thermal design that EVGA uses since the VRM is basically uncooled and barely ever receives any airflow.
Guess it's a curse of running Noctua industrials as front back case fans....
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shannonjpower
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 00:19:50
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seahawkgfx
It is not certain that higher ambient temperature lead to higher temperatures at the VRAM modules, simply because higher ambient temperature will also make the fans spin faster, which increases the airflow and helps cool the plate covering the VRMs and the VRAM. The cooling plate was good enough for the 970/980 (which draw about the same power) but the ACX2.0 fans spun faster. The ACX 3.0 GPU Cooler is stronger, but this means the fans spin slower which means the cooling area for the VRMs should have been bigger. (fins or a a connection to baseplate, GPU cooler)
Of course higher ambient temps will cause higher temps on the VRM's etc. Why do you think they list the ambient temp to begin with? Sure the fans might be moving more CFM but the ambient temp is higher to begin with making the cooling less efficient.
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seahawkgfx
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 00:49:45
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shannonjpower
seahawkgfx
It is not certain that higher ambient temperature lead to higher temperatures at the VRAM modules, simply because higher ambient temperature will also make the fans spin faster, which increases the airflow and helps cool the plate covering the VRMs and the VRAM. The cooling plate was good enough for the 970/980 (which draw about the same power) but the ACX2.0 fans spun faster. The ACX 3.0 GPU Cooler is stronger, but this means the fans spin slower which means the cooling area for the VRMs should have been bigger. (fins or a a connection to baseplate, GPU cooler)
Of course higher ambient temps will cause higher temps on the VRM's etc. Why do you think they list the ambient temp to begin with? Sure the fans might be moving more CFM but the ambient temp is higher to begin with making the cooling less efficient.
Cooling power is not only influenced by Delta T (DT) but also by the surface area of the cooling area and by the airflow. For example if I want to cool 225W to 70°C at 20°C and at 30°C ambient, the required airflow only increases by about 33% although the ambient temperature increased by 50%.
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nika006
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 03:54:47
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Where can I order those pads with instructions?
If EVGA asks shipping fee, I'm done. Gonna sell my FTW and buy a Palit.
It's like Galaxy Note 7, 5 out of 1000 explodes, same here. It gets overheated, in some cases it burns the card.
The chance is not high ofcourse, but it's still there and it shouldn't happen at all in the first place.
EVGA should make a separate thermal pads page with the order link.
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bairanbokkeri
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 03:58:14
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nika006
Where can I order those pads with instructions?
If EVGA asks shipping fee, I'm done. Gonna sell my FTW and buy a Palit.
It's like Galaxy Note 7, 5 out of 1000 explodes, same here. It gets overheated, in some cases it burns the card.
The chance is not high ofcourse, but it's still there and it shouldn't happen at all in the first place.
EVGA should make a separate thermal pads page with the order link.
There is a page dedicated for pads. Edit; oh right, cant post links.
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shannonjpower
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 03:59:42
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Yeah same. Just google 'evga thermal pad order' and it's the 1st link or there is a link on page 6 of the thread. EVGA_JacobF
Here is where you can request the thermal pads:
post edited by shannonjpower - 2016/10/27 04:04:38
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bitxan
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 04:05:01
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Shame has to give to EVGA treatment that is giving the problem, maybe you do not have the means or can not solve, in the last years have passed through my hands several EVGA but as a satisfactory solution will be securely the last, whether it would be worse than even above had some kind of cost to the buyer, is very hard and takes a long time to reach the top but the descent is very fast, good luck to the losers.
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panaikas
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 04:22:10
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thermal pads request link
www.evga.com/thermalmod/default.asp#request
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 04:37:03
(permalink)
nika006
Where can I order those pads with instructions?
If EVGA asks shipping fee, I'm done. Gonna sell my FTW and buy a Palit.
It's like Galaxy Note 7, 5 out of 1000 explodes, same here. It gets overheated, in some cases it burns the card.
The chance is not high ofcourse, but it's still there and it shouldn't happen at all in the first place.
EVGA should make a separate thermal pads page with the order link.
There has already been posts from evga saying there will be no shipping charge.
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bissagars
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 04:56:36
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I requested the thermal pad and I'm in Egypt, I wonder how long it will take to receive them.
Anyone in this thread received his thermal pad?
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dzernesto
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 05:03:07
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bissagars
I requested the thermal pad and I'm in Egypt, I wonder how long it will take to receive them.
Anyone in this thread received his thermal pad?
they haven't sent it yet.
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NucleusX
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 07:39:46
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As concerning as all this is, i'd love nothing more than to see EVGA innovate a way to over-come all this and bounce back with a vengeance.
EVGA have proven to be a formidable opponent when they get their engineering right, and have done so many times in the past.
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inseek
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 08:05:36
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I just got my second 1080 FTW... so sad... 
i7-5820K@4.5G 1.24v / ASUS X99-E WS USB3.1 / G.Skill 8Gx8 DDR4-3200EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW SLI x2 with EVGA HB SLI BeidgeDELL GeForce GTX 645 dedicated for PhysX and additional monitorsIntel 330 SSD 240GB / Intel 750 SSD 800GB / Sandisk Extreme Pro 480GB x2Toshiba ACA 2TB x2 RAID0 / Toshiba ACA 3TB x2 RAID1 / Toshiba ACA 3TB x5 RAID5Creative X-FI Titanium HD / SONY PHA-2 / UltimateEar UE900Antec HCP1200
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Vayra86
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 08:28:42
(permalink)
bissagars
reading the tomshardware.de full review comparison , the EVGA has high VRM temp, but the Zotac has higher temp and Zotac didn't say anything about that.
Full temperature comparison:
Zotac GTX 1080 AMP Xtreme VRM 106.9c
EVGA GTX 1080 FTW VRM 106.8c
Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 has hot spot 97.8c / VRM 82.9c
MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X has hot spot 96.7c / VRM 98.2c
Gigabyte GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming VRM 83.2c
Palit GTX 1080 Game Rock hot spot 82.6c / VRM 76.9
Galax GeForce GTX 1080 HoF VRM 75c
Yes, but only in Furmark. If you look at the Zotac run on Metro:LL, where the FTW cards keep scoring over 100 C, the temps are down to some of the better temps in the field: 88,9 C It's a very logical result of the Zotac AMP! Extreme having a 270w power delivery instead of the FTW at 215w. Furmark maximizes the power draw to whatever the board can push, but is not a realistic gaming load. The much lower VRM temps on the Zotac actually show that the cooling is well designed around the normal TDP limits of Pascal, and that its VRM section is heavily over engineered. Pascal BIOS will never allow the card to draw 270w, so the only reason you'd ever see VRM temps over 100 C on the Zotac AMP is when you are using modded BIOS and hardware volt/TDP bypass mods - which immediately voids the warranty. In addition, if you have been paying attention, it is the GDDR5 next to the VRM section that creates issues at high temps, not the VRM itself. Even though 100 C is hot, its usually within spec for VRM which is rated for 105-120C (or more), while GDDR5 is rated at 95 C. And then you keep the EVGA solution WITH the added thermal pads next to this, and you can see why there's reason to say ACX 3.0 is a crappy cooler design. http://www.tomshardware.d...erichte-242137-12.html
post edited by Vayra86 - 2016/10/27 08:53:54
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NeroRay
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 08:45:05
(permalink)
bissagars
reading the tomshardware.de full review comparison , the EVGA has high VRM temp, but the Zotac has higher temp and Zotac didn't say anything about that.
Full temperature comparison:
Zotac GTX 1080 AMP Xtreme VRM 106.9c
EVGA GTX 1080 FTW VRM 106.8c
Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 has hot spot 97.8c / VRM 82.9c
MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X has hot spot 96.7c / VRM 98.2c
Gigabyte GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming VRM 83.2c
Palit GTX 1080 Game Rock hot spot 82.6c / VRM 76.9
Galax GeForce GTX 1080 HoF VRM 75c
The VRMs are actually not the issue. I think they can withstand up to 120-150°C. The main problem is, that these VRMs are basically cooking the VRAMs, which shouldnt pass 95°C (according to Micron)
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mannitu78
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Re: bad(HOT) PCB Layout on GTX 1070 FTW?
2016/10/27 08:47:19
(permalink)
still the Zotac is crap. KFA HOF for the win:)..not only is it well designed, i have so good experience with KFA when it comes to clock speeds...which maybe Luck ofc. Id go witth the Classified or the KFA HOF.
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