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The Astronomy Thread

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nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 09:35:23 (permalink)
They are absolutely beautiful.
 
 
I took a bunch last night of the fire nebula, but I just got Deep Sky Stacker, and it wont read my pictures like my camera does.  What am I doing wrong?
 

 
Also it randomly flips the pictures from horizontal to vertical halfway through the shoot.  grrr.  Not sure how to lock it into a certain perspective. 
Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 11:10:53 (permalink)
You need to take pictures in raw and there is a update for Deep Sky Stacker (DSS) 3.3.4 to read cannon raw pics but DSS should line the pictures up. Try Backyard EOS free for thirty days.
 
 Here are the steps I use and software. After I level and balance my mount and scope with my T5 camera, cords, ZWO Color CMOS Camera (ZWO is used for planetary pictures and guiding) and guide scope. I use backyard Eos on the laptop to store my pictures on the hard drive and controls my camera. Also heat creates artifacts in the frames, so the lcd on the camera creates heat, turn it off. I then slew to a bright star like Siris and zoom in with Backyard and focus the star on the laptop. After I am focused, I slew to the night object fire up PHD2 and start my tracking. I take a few test pictures and make sure it is framed and test the shutter time, cool down time and ISO settings and visually check for star trails. I complete my session with my dark's, Bias and flats pictures. I then go to my desktop (AMD 1700) and stack my work with DSS. If you need help with planets let me know it is a whole different setup.
 
Software
Backyard Eos for the cannon or nikon cameras
PHD2 for tracking
DSS version 3.3.4
 
Bear Paw Galaxy top right on a perfect night!!!!! This took all night with 25 good frames at 10 minutes each.

 
My Celestron 8

post edited by Swats - 2018/01/19 11:16:42

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 14:52:34 (permalink)
I am still figuring this all out

Captured the leo triplet mid processing.  This is the first time I touched the program.  How do you convert these processed 200MEG files into a jpg to actually show people?
 
I will have so many more questions.
 
As for the telescope dilemma, I will keep the shower poles, and get the plastic.  Reason being, if I damage a pole, id rather just pay $6.00 to replace each.  I did check lowes for the electrical conduit.  WAY too thick and heavy.  I just have to suck it up and make 1.5" clamps that screw to the mating rings.  
 
More later.  
 

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notfordman
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 15:18:46 (permalink)
Very nice pictures Swats!! Welcome to the forums. 
 
On the pole dilemma, is there such a thing as a union to join a couple poles together for the length you need? 
post edited by notfordman - 2018/01/19 15:21:03
Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 15:23:20 (permalink)
I use photoshop for touch up and save it as a jpeg. I do not know how to is gimp but it’s a free photo editing software you can try. Now if you want to turn the raw into a JPEG I use cannons software.

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 15:24:05 (permalink)
I can make one as a hack job, I have an extra pole i can cut into pieces, slice it out it over and clamp it back.

I tried one of those zwo cameras last night. PhD couldn't calibrate because it said the stars didn't move enough. I'm guessing cause I did a fantastic job of polar aligning, and my mount tracks perfectly?
Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 17:09:18 (permalink)
Thanks Notfordman
 I came here just browsing to see if there was any info about video cards, but this astronomy thread caught my eye. But as I figured the miners and Chinese have the video cards market upside down. What 2 cards that are available on newegg cost as much as a Ethereum coin . I bought a new 2k monitor and want to upgrade my 1060 6gig video card to a 1080" Grrrr I will have to wait and hope AMD or Nvidia start pumping out some more cards.
 
 Nateman I do not know why PHD could not calibrate, two ideas come to mind. Did you put the right focal length of your guide scope in the software and was the software talking to your mount (lose cable)? besides I am still very noobish at the whole astrophotography world but the best advise I can give is just play with the software.
 
 A little about me I have 2 main hobbies Gaming and Astrophotography. But wait we are in EVGA's forum and I'm sharing my astrophotography photos. I would tell anyone who wants to get into astrophotography is this hobby gets expensive fast and pictures are free online. I always think back to the matrix movie when I buy something for the telescope. "You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." Man I fell in the rabbit hole and sometimes wish I took the blue pill, but I love astronomy. Now days when I ask my wife if I can by something she just says "Now what do you need for the computer or telescope!"
 
 Nateman or anyone else if you wanted to have a friendly competition of picking a deep space object and see how the pictures turn out.
post edited by Swats - 2018/01/19 17:12:38

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/19 22:40:03 (permalink)
I am totally down.  I will try to image a few things (provided the sky allows) and post them here.  First shot a the leo triplets (only 2 of them)

 
(high res: https://i.imgur.com/pUqhFWW.jpg)
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/20 10:06:19 (permalink)
So is the purpose of DSS to just get an image?  As in you can mess with the image to get a good grayscale image... then get the colors out in a photo editing program?  @ 250 megs of data I know the colors are in there, but i cant really get good color in the DSS software.
 
Here is the visual picture of the fire nebula in Orion:

(bonus horsehead nebula)  Taken with a 1600 ISO, 82 second exposure time.
 
Now when I stack the fire nebula I get this:

 
 
Still not the same red's as visual light.  Here is me screwing around with light levels in GIMP:

 
I truly know NOTHING about photo editing.  I am a dumb as a brick.  How to select layers, fuzzy select.. all if it means nothing to me.  I will stick to globual clusters for the time being as stars are easy enough, and leave the nebulas alone until I have had some experience with the software and astrophotography in general.
 
speaking of.... Can u make me smart on the darks, flats, bias etc?  I got the "light" pictures and the darks (just put the cover on the scope and take the same exposures as the lights) but the bias and flats I just dont get it. 

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Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/20 20:27:08 (permalink)
That is a great picture of the Fire Nebula. Stars are nice and round. I see the normal vignetting on the edges of the pictures and love the stars flares from Newtonian scope. As far as photo editing I have to read and watch a lot of tutorials. Our cannons are made to take pictures of people, not the night sky, it has filters to take out the inferred spectrum. Either you have to modify the cannon or buy a camera made for astrophotography.  I have to sweet talk the wife for a 2k camera but it's not working so far lol.
 
I am going to try and answer the darks, flats bias ect...
 
Light Frames - pictures you take.
 
Dark Frames - Just put on the dust cover and shoot the same ISO and exposure time I take 10 pictures
 
Bias Frames - keep the ISO the same but use the shortest exposure time with the dust cover on I take 10 pictures
 
Flat Frames -  Without disturbing my camera, place a tee shirt over the scope and I point it at a flood light. I put it in AV mode ( camera takes over the exposure time) keep the Iso the same and I take 10 pictures
 
I separate the pictures in folders and point DSS to them.
 
 
This is the instructions I copied and pasted from DSS web page.
 
Light Frames
The Light Frames are the images that contains the real information: images of galaxies, nebula...
This is what you want to stack.

Dark Frames and Dark Flat Frames
The Dark Frames are used to remove the dark signal from the light frames (or the flat frames for the Dark Flat frames).
With DSLRs and CCD Camera, the CMOS or CCD is generating a dark signal depending of the exposure time, temperature and ISO speed (DSLR only).
To remove the dark signal from the light frames you use a dark frame that contains only the dark signal.

The best way to create the dark frames is to shoot pictures in the dark (hence the name) by covering the lens.
The dark frames must be created with the exposure time, temperature and ISO speed of the light frames (resp. flat frames).
Since the temperature is important try to shoot dark frames at the end or during your imaging session.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master dark or master dark flat.

Bias Frames (aka Offset Frames)
The Bias/Offset Frames are used to remove the CCD or CMOS chip readout signal from the light frames.
Each CCD or CMOS chip is generating a readout signal which is a signal created by the electronic just by reading the content of the chip.

It's very easy to create bias/offset frames: just take the shortest possible exposure (it may be 1/4000s or 1/8000s depending on your camera) in the dark by covering the lens.
The bias frames must be create with the ISO speed of the light frames. The temperature is not important.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master bias/offset frame

Flat Frames
The Flat Frames are used to correct the vignetting and uneven field illumination created by dust or smudges in your optical train.

To create good flat frames it is very important to not remove your camera from your telescope before taking them (including not changing the focus).
You can use a lot of different methods (including using a flatbox) but I found that the simplest way is to put a white T shirt in front of your telescope and  smooth out the folds. Then shoot something luminous (a flash, a bright white light, the sky at dawn...) and let the camera decide of the exposure time (Av mode),

The flat frames should be created with the ISO speed of the light frames. The temperature is not important.

Take a few of them (between 10 and 20 is usually enough). DeepSkyStacker will combine them automatically to create and use a clean master flat frame.

Is it possible to use colored flat frames?
The short answer is yes.
The overall tint of your flat frames is not really important because DeepSkyStacker is processing each channel separately and is applying the flat frames to each channel accordingly.
Of course if your flat frames are fully red only the red channel of your light frames will be properly calibrated but otherwise as long as as the peak in each channel is between 1/3 and 2/3 of the maximum you should have no problem using slightly colored flat frames.


 
As I type this I am trying the horse Head nebula but nothing is working right tonight.
post edited by Swats - 2018/01/20 20:28:33

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/20 22:16:50 (permalink)
Horse Head Nebula, GRRR the star Alnitak was just to bright and I do not know why it shadowed on the Horse Head. I took 50 pictures at 60 seconds 1600 ISO and only had 27 good pictures because of bad tracking and frost. As always stacked and lightly touched with Photoshop enjoy. I got part of the Flame nebula at the bottom. My CAT scope is not made for astrophotgraphy of Deep space Objects.
 

 
post edited by Swats - 2018/01/20 22:18:51

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/21 08:00:42 (permalink)
Maybe try a barlow?  That will take away the other stars by narrowing your FOV?  
I didnt get a chance to go out last night.  There was a huge haze that covered the sky till abou 1 am.  I was going to bring the kids outside but I called it as a wasted night.  Looks clear today so far but work tomorrow so staying out late probably isnt an option.  Plus the moon is on the rise, so thats going to kill the next month of DSO imaging =/
 
working on clamps for the scope today.  Should have something to show by the end of the day.
 
Also my wife found a telescope for the kids on face book... a 4" goto.  I am sure they will be pretty excited about that.
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/22 12:10:33 (permalink)

 
Said clamps.  This will secure the poles from both rotational motion, and sliding.  I figured just make one set really long instead of 2 shorter sets.  Half the work, same outcome. 
Swats
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 06:49:27 (permalink)
Nateman I wish I had the knowledge to machine parts like you are doing. I see everything is coming together and it looks good.
 
nateman_doo
Maybe try a barlow?  That will take away the other stars by narrowing your FOV?  



On my Schmidt–Cassegrain telescope I use a Reducer - Corrector that screws into the back and then I attach a T-adapter. The cannon connects to the T-adapter. So a barlow will not work with my setup. I will take the Reducer off to narrow my FOV.

post edited by Swats - 2018/01/23 06:51:09

The Eclipse August 21, 2017

 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 07:55:48 (permalink)
ope is "finished" and mounted.  Now comes the improvement stages.

The mounts secure to the mating rings, but being that they are plastic... they do flex.  Custom cut-to-length bands will be arriving today so that should help sturdy it up slightly, but I think I may have to bite the bullet and make the rear mating rings out of Aluminum.  The upper tube assembly plastic can stay.  Thankfully someone here showed a cheap place for aluminum.
 
Vixen rail mounted:

So far the center of balance is in front of the tube.  Not desired, but it "works" for the moment being.  Has a springboard effect when touched.  Not sure if that is related to the plastic mating rings or because the bands haven't been installed yet.  Currently I have to wait a few seconds for it to settle down.
 
 
Sitting in the mount:



Must add counterweights in the back.  Thankfully that was incorporated into the design.
 
 
Finding out that the threaded rods (aluminum) flexed when weight was put on them, I used some of the scrap plastic to fashion a way to use the combined strength of all 3 to hold the counterweights.  (remember, they are only screwed into wood).  So I came up with this:



 
The counter weights are 2 lbs each.  Since the scope clocks in at 33 lbs (1 lbs above the calculated weight - due to the addition of the aluminum rear clamps) I can afford to put a few of the factory weights back on and still be under the 40 lbs.  The guide scope will be added to the rear section of the scope putting more weight in the back... and mostly because I wont be able to reach the focuser without a ladder.  
 
Since I dont plan to use the scope for visual I will be using the camera up in the focuser.  If the guide scope is dialed in well, then I can just use the camera as the visual inspection when doing initial alignment.  The image will be projected on a laptop, so I can use the reticle of the screen or camera to center stars during alignment.
 
This thing is HUGE.  I want to test it as-is to see if improvements will actually do anything, or just save the money and use the 10" scope, and just use this as a visual scope back in its factory configuration. 
 
But " know thyself..."  I never give up.  Finances be damned.  Invested enough into this project... may as well spend more and make it work.
 
 
 
 
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/23 07:58:19
muskie32
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 09:55:13 (permalink)
Here are a few of my photos of the night sky from last year:
Camera: Canon 80d
Lens: Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 
 

 

 

 

 



nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 10:03:33 (permalink)
No light pollution?  Must be mid west.  I am so jealous of those wide open fields you can scan from horizon to horizon without anything in the way.  You could probably even see Mercury.  August I plan to see it, as its already setting.
 
BTW, Total Lunar Eclipse next Wed (31 Jan) .  Been soaked with rain for a few days... I think the North East earned a few days of clear skies =/
 
Sadly I am not in a position to see any part of the eclipse.  Check in your area if you will be able to see it.  It will already be setting by the time it starts (6 am East Coast)
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/23 10:14:41
muskie32
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 10:08:01 (permalink)
nateman_doo
No light pollution?  Must be mid west.  I am so jealous of those wide open fields you can scan from horizon to horizon without anything in the way.  You could probably even see Mercury.  August I plan to see it, as its already setting.



 
Middle of nowhere Kansas. Not much to do, but the stars sure look amazing! I really should go get some more shots, but the cold weather has been making me lazy. The illumination on the fields and barn that I got is from a flash that I just walked around with firing at different objects. 


nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/23 10:15:59 (permalink)
I read that if you go in various positions and flash your light (while your camera has its shutter open) it gives the objects in the ground some nice depth.    
 
I would love to drive out there and spend a week observing.  But that is quite a drive.
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/24 06:06:03 (permalink)
drkxrider
Try midweststeelsupply.com I just looked and half inch thick by 18" square is around 57 bucks for 6061 aluminum


the price went up??  its now $64.  grrr.   
 
 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/24 06:14:31 (permalink)
After a short evaluation of the setup, I am going to take the plunge and go for some aluminum.  I ordered aluminum poles, and I decided the rear plastic rings have TOO much flex in them.  The front plastic mating rings can stay, so that will help with overall weight reduction, but you absolutely need the rigidity afforded by aluminum.  Especially since its the rear mating rings bearing the weight of the entire structure.  I don't like the spring board effect.  Especially when taking long exposures.  Since the current steel shower poles are 0.04" wall thickness I opted for 0.065 wall thickness structural anodized aluminum poles.  Should still be much lighter then the steel while being as strong, so it may end up weighting the same based on the additional weight of the aluminum rings, with the reduction of weight from the steel poles.  We will see.
 
While waiting for the aluminum poles to arrive I broke down the scope.  It breaks down smaller then ONE section of the original scope:

 
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/26 08:07:04 (permalink)
Swats
 
 Nateman or anyone else if you wanted to have a friendly competition of picking a deep space object and see how the pictures turn out.


clear skies tonight (so far).... what are you game for?  
Going to try some new stuff to try like the backyard EOS. and see if I can get PhD to work.
 
Moon is going to be annoying, so perhaps a star cluster would be best?
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/26 08:51:29
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/26 09:50:41 (permalink)

nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/26 11:10:36 (permalink)
Welcome to the forums!!  Where are you from?  and what is that above Orion like that?  The moon?  Where did you take it, Orion never sets or rises in that orientation by me so you are far away from the east coast US, but at a magnificent dark site.
 
BTW, if anyone has any requests for things for me to try and target tonight, I will do my best to take a picture of it with my currently functioning 8" scope.  Keep in mind that there is at least a half full moon out tonight, so nebula will be bleached out a bit, but I think any globular and open clusters (perhaps a few galaxies?) "should" be ok.  I still have about 7 hours from this posting until i will be setup so feel free to let me know
 
 
The 14" i hope to have online in time for the new moon.  I called the midweststeelsupply place and they said they JUST moved to a new location so cutting my aluminum will take at least a week.  I do have aluminum poles now... so I will see how well those perform.  Currently  making some minor modifications to the mating ring design to shave a few ounces off the material.  Still will be around 2 lbs per ring =/
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/26 11:17:20
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/26 14:24:20 (permalink)
rigid aluminum tubing is EXACTLY what the dr ordered!  0.035 wall thickness!  Also came up with a secondary counterweight "design".... More on that later.  
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/26 22:08:32 (permalink)
So far I have 30 minutes of total exposures for: M42, M51, M53, M100, M101,
 
30 exposures of the moon, 1/1000
 
10 min of M3, M13
 
getting a shot or 2 of Jupiter since its rising, then end the night with my flats, biases and darks.
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/26 23:50:26
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/27 16:38:47 (permalink)
I am going to upload this data to Google drive, if anyone wants to mess around with the pictures and see what they come up with.
nateman_doo
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/27 17:38:25 (permalink)
To you photo-editing lurkers (and actual people who do this)  Here is the Data from last night's photo shoots.  For those of you who want to experiment, the stacking program is called DEEP SKY STACKER and its free.  Link is here: 
http://deepskystacker.free.fr/download/DeepSkyStacker334.rar
(the latest version)
 
Pick the object below, and drag the files as LIGHT FILES
Orion:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wR3NyPVlPMpqNiVagpf7hpksEUxF_nqY?usp=sharing
 
Moon:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1X_KLeOTK-Y6NCZOZ7xvYEs383jCLlCbm?usp=sharing
(some of the files say M51, they actually are all moon files) 
 
M101:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kCE7pP8L7lgPtjFEzzTMvPHCpHitih7W?usp=sharing
 
M100:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16BTace8BbbxyMJoBF1VduLtQrHaOVVna?usp=sharing
 
M53:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nwep4pq95HDhuHJpXeHvEUkkZEKBjQrh?usp=sharing
 
M51:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16bunLDxtB_bhxtpzBm9DkmulME4r7-_D?usp=sharing
 
M13:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DxQ4__RU6_Vk7W6fEe6848U-_EtMfVbb?usp=sharing
 
M3:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aMfubu6kpLStOeDLthSoB6YSg5TKY7mP
 
 
And here are the other items to add to the stacking process
DARKS:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11PyINGMPTtYL0h4y9ZkDZwDmV1G9NdsT
 
BIAS:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KiwzSM5M6YDfOeAj_MUOz1xAdP0qy2pc
 
FLATS:
I think the flats are not usable... but if you want to experiment, here they are
 
Once you have a successfully stacked image, thats where the photo editing comes in.  Go nuts.  I would LOVE to see what you guys come up with, since I suck so bad at this.
 
EDIT:  I fixed the flats.  They REALLY HELP.  use them.
post edited by nateman_doo - 2018/01/27 20:42:33
SierraWolf117
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/27 17:47:06 (permalink)
The extent of my gazing was the eclipse and the awesome Wolf Moon we had... pathetic I know, but I do really like space and and would love to actually travel out there one day. Thanks for the pics of setups and cool shots, it's inspiring.
bill1024
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Re: The Astronomy Thread 2018/01/27 18:59:58 (permalink)
What you are doing is cool and all. But here are some picture for those who love outer space.
http://hubblesite.org/images/gallery

 Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife

   
 
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