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R3L3NTL3SS
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:50:08 (permalink)
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?


Why are you all stuck on this when multiple people have said 6 MLCC are actually not ideal?
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:50:08 (permalink)
R3L3NTL3SS
Maxidrom2002
savi01
I'm glad this was caught before cards were shipped out to everyone.
 
I don't understand why some people are saying this doesn't build trust? If the cards with the potentially bad setup were shipped out and EVGA didn't say anything, then it's fair to be upset. They fixed the issue BEFORE shipping them out. Were they supposed to apologize for cards they didn't send out???
 
Also, I think this is catching a bit too much fire/attention. Igor did some fantastic work in finding a potential cause of issues, but I think Jay's video is pouring gasoline on this whole crazy release and he's enjoying the attention. 
 
 


Hey, plz become educated. They/Jacob only mentions FTW3 card...how it has 2MLCCs...which is same as FE version...

At the end he is like...oh, and BTW, XC3s have 1 MLCC...but thats no issue...they will run just fine...

Um...no, there will be left performance on the table...because of early on decisions.

Buy a higher SKU card if you want the best with the most OC potential. Thats literally nothing new. Lol


The 3080s have so far all been shown to have a notoriously low headroom for overclocking, regardless of the brand.  So far the normal FTW was shown to be the "best" in that regard, but the "best" by a paltry 2fps.  If this is a hardware limitation, and even EVGA is not safe from the 4+20 crash, then the FTW3 Ultra doesn't seem like it's actually going to do anything that the base FTW can't do since they will both be limited by the same boost clock.

    
 
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:50:15 (permalink)
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?

Agreed, anything else seems like extreme penny pinching to me.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:50:55 (permalink)
 
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?



 
Which models are they?  I did see some of them are....they the higher priced OC'd ones or standard? (TUF vs STRIX)
 





 
 
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:51:22 (permalink)
Maxidrom2002
U guys knew about this issue weeks, if not months ago...and you are all coming out of the closet now...ONLY BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENT REPORTING. This is not how u build trust...

they fixed it before shipping any cards to customers. what did they have to come clean about?
 
they saw a problem, fixed it, and moved on. you're not entitled to every decision they make LOL
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:51:32 (permalink)
R3L3NTL3SS
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?


Why are you all stuck on this when multiple people have said 6 MLCC are actually not ideal?

I haven't heard this yet, do you know what the reason is?  Is it less overall capacitance? 
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:52:11 (permalink)
Maxidrom2002
savi01
I'm glad this was caught before cards were shipped out to everyone.
 
I don't understand why some people are saying this doesn't build trust? If the cards with the potentially bad setup were shipped out and EVGA didn't say anything, then it's fair to be upset. They fixed the issue BEFORE shipping them out. Were they supposed to apologize for cards they didn't send out???
 
Also, I think this is catching a bit too much fire/attention. Igor did some fantastic work in finding a potential cause of issues, but I think Jay's video is pouring gasoline on this whole crazy release and he's enjoying the attention. 
 
 


Hey, plz become educated. They/Jacob only mentions FTW3 card...how it has 2MLCCs...which is same as FE version...

At the end he is like...oh, and BTW, XC3s have 1 MLCC...but thats no issue...they will run just fine...

Um...no, there will be left performance on the table...because of early on decisions.



The FTW's push higher boost clock speeds and have different power requirements than the XC's.  The XC's with 1x5 will be fine.

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:53:59 (permalink)
interesting update
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:54:14 (permalink)
Maxidrom2002
rain2_usa
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Maxidrom2002
U guys knew about this issue weeks, if not months ago...and you are all coming out of the closet now...ONLY BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENT REPORTING. This is not how u build trust...


Agree

Because none of the EVGA retail cards have issues...absolutely no reason whatsoever to make a statement on an unreleased product where the issue was discovered and fixed before release.  


Thats a bold statement cotton, lets see if thats gonna work out for ya...

The "bold" statement is what an EVGA brand director stated in this thread about the retail release.  Review cards may have them, which are being swapped bout, but NO retail cards.  EVGA has made that statement. If they lied about that, there will be repercussions on their brand, which I don't think anyone in the company would risk.  


U highly doubt anyone would straight up lie
..thats too damaging.

Its marketing deception. 2 points:
1. I wish they would explain early on WHY they didn't have card availability...and tell u the truth still don't.
2. They only address FTW...while XC3 gets left out for the most part. Jay already mentioned cards having problems with just one MLCC and will most likely also need to update v-bios to downclock.

1. No...they don't.  If It's delayed, it's delayed.  They don't have any obligation to specifically state so and so reason for delaying the card.  It's also a very custom card compared to the XC3.
2. No, Jay didn't state 5+10 have problems.  You'll need to backup that reference because even Jay had to post a follow up video on Twitter that's not what he was saying about the POSCAPs and MLCC / power delivery.  And 5+10 is NVIDIA Reference design; not a deviation.  You obviously are trying to cherry pick pieces of information to back up your claim.  

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:55:21 (permalink)
Awesome!! And this is why I want to buy from EVGA. If the website will ever let me. :-)
R3L3NTL3SS
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:55:52 (permalink)
Pilot 53
R3L3NTL3SS
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?


Why are you all stuck on this when multiple people have said 6 MLCC are actually not ideal?

I haven't heard this yet, do you know what the reason is?  Is it less overall capacitance? 

No clue. But people with much more knowledge on the subject than me have stated it across multiple groups and forums I frequent now.
Maxidrom2002
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:56:28 (permalink)
Sanctuary
R3L3NTL3SS
Maxidrom2002
savi01
I'm glad this was caught before cards were shipped out to everyone.

I don't understand why some people are saying this doesn't build trust? If the cards with the potentially bad setup were shipped out and EVGA didn't say anything, then it's fair to be upset. They fixed the issue BEFORE shipping them out. Were they supposed to apologize for cards they didn't send out???

Also, I think this is catching a bit too much fire/attention. Igor did some fantastic work in finding a potential cause of issues, but I think Jay's video is pouring gasoline on this whole crazy release and he's enjoying the attention. 




Hey, plz become educated. They/Jacob only mentions FTW3 card...how it has 2MLCCs...which is same as FE version...

At the end he is like...oh, and BTW, XC3s have 1 MLCC...but thats no issue...they will run just fine...

Um...no, there will be left performance on the table...because of early on decisions.

Buy a higher SKU card if you want the best with the most OC potential. Thats literally nothing new. Lol


The 3080s have so far all been shown to have a notoriously low headroom for overclocking, regardless of the brand.  So far the normal FTW was shown to be the "best" in that regard, but the "best" by a paltry 2fps.  If this is a hardware limitation, and even EVGA is not safe from the 4+20 crash, then the FTW3 Ultra doesn't seem like it's actually going to do anything that the base FTW can't do since they will both be limited by the same boost clock.


Yes! There is not reason for OC cards because these rtx cards will boost higher than spec (1740 or whatever spec its set) automatically based on thermal performance/limitations.
silentoption
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:57:54 (permalink)
EVGA for the win


Sm0key72
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:59:17 (permalink)
rain2_usa
Maxidrom2002
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Maxidrom2002
U guys knew about this issue weeks, if not months ago...and you are all coming out of the closet now...ONLY BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENT REPORTING. This is not how u build trust...


Agree

Because none of the EVGA retail cards have issues...absolutely no reason whatsoever to make a statement on an unreleased product where the issue was discovered and fixed before release.  


Thats a bold statement cotton, lets see if thats gonna work out for ya...

The "bold" statement is what an EVGA brand director stated in this thread about the retail release.  Review cards may have them, which are being swapped bout, but NO retail cards.  EVGA has made that statement. If they lied about that, there will be repercussions on their brand, which I don't think anyone in the company would risk.  


U highly doubt anyone would straight up lie
..thats too damaging.

Its marketing deception. 2 points:
1. I wish they would explain early on WHY they didn't have card availability...and tell u the truth still don't.
2. They only address FTW...while XC3 gets left out for the most part. Jay already mentioned cards having problems with just one MLCC and will most likely also need to update v-bios to downclock.

1. No...they don't.  If It's delayed, it's delayed.  They don't have any obligation to specifically state so and so reason for delaying the card.  It's also a very custom card compared to the XC3.
2. No, Jay didn't state 5+10 have problems.  You'll need to backup that reference because even Jay had to post a follow up video on Twitter that's not what he was saying about the POSCAPs and MLCC / power delivery.  And 5+10 is NVIDIA Reference design; not a deviation.  You obviously are trying to cherry pick pieces of information to back up your claim.  



Let them think what they want.  The more that believe this and decide to buy a competitors product, the easier it will be for the rest of us to our EVGA's.  ;)

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 18:59:29 (permalink)
Maxidrom2002
savi01
I'm glad this was caught before cards were shipped out to everyone.
 
I don't understand why some people are saying this doesn't build trust? If the cards with the potentially bad setup were shipped out and EVGA didn't say anything, then it's fair to be upset. They fixed the issue BEFORE shipping them out. Were they supposed to apologize for cards they didn't send out???
 
Also, I think this is catching a bit too much fire/attention. Igor did some fantastic work in finding a potential cause of issues, but I think Jay's video is pouring gasoline on this whole crazy release and he's enjoying the attention. 
 
 


Hey, plz become educated. They/Jacob only mentions FTW3 card...how it has 2MLCCs...which is same as FE version...

At the end he is like...oh, and BTW, XC3s have 1 MLCC...but thats no issue...they will run just fine...

Um...no, there will be left performance on the table...because of early on decisions.



Ok, "plz" educate me then. I'm 100% sure you're just going off of a youtube video and have no idea about any of the components that are actually being discussed. 

Educate me on how much performance you know for a fact you're going to lose because of this. Educate me on what the best solution is. Educate me on how to a company should handle this situation.
 
Do you even have a new card in hand????
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:00:12 (permalink)
EVGA_JacobF
There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.

 
...And there were no EVGA Geforce RTX 3080 FTW3 bought from me because... bots and scarcity
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:00:56 (permalink)
Pilot 53
R3L3NTL3SS
SprayingMango
This is cute and all but ASUS is shipping cards with 6 MLCC, which seems like the best solution. Why isn’t EVGA doing the same?


Why are you all stuck on this when multiple people have said 6 MLCC are actually not ideal?

I haven't heard this yet, do you know what the reason is?  Is it less overall capacitance? 


Yes.  The MLCCs are low capacity, but good at filtering high frequency transients.  The SP-CAP have much better bulk capacitance to keep the rail up during load transition (while the VRM catches up).  Most decoupling networks involve 2 caps for the bulk+filter approach.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:01:03 (permalink)
Imo the options are FE or Asus Tuf at MSRP, at high end EVGA FTW3 seems to be all right, Strix seems to be really really well built though


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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:01:59 (permalink)
Thanks for the info Jacob!

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:02:38 (permalink)
Maxidrom2002
U guys knew about this issue weeks, if not months ago...and you are all coming out of the closet now...ONLY BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENT REPORTING. This is not how u build trust...


Uhh facts are that technically none shipped with the defect. Since none shipped it technically didn’t exist so there really isn’t a story here. They are simply being upfront with their QA process. That is all this is.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:03:00 (permalink)
Any word on what the 3080/90 Hybrid and 3090 Kingpin will have? They will all have higher ceilings.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:04:08 (permalink)
Shock4ndAwe
Any word on what the 3080/90 Hybrid and 3090 Kingpin will have? They will all have higher ceilings.


Hybrid are usually based on FTW3.  Kingpin, really depends. I'd expect to see a 4/2 personally.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:05:07 (permalink)
Shock4ndAwe
Any word on what the 3080/90 Hybrid and 3090 Kingpin will have? They will all have higher ceilings.



3080/3090 Hybrids will probably just be FTW3's with CLC. Kingpin will be a different beast entirely.


 
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:05:18 (permalink)
I don't understand how 1 good square in the Ultra is good enough.  The other's with 1 at regular boost speeds are crashing.  And the FTW's have 2 with the same boost.
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:07:12 (permalink)
what about the 3090? are they full MLCC ?

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:07:39 (permalink)
Glad to see such transparent communication from EVGA. Hopefully this puts an end to the rampant speculation around this issue.
 
As some have mentioned, tantalum capacitors (POSCAPs) are not "cheap". EVGA and others aren't "pinching pennies" by populating boards with them. Boards using all ceramic (MLCC) caps here may be better or worse than a design using both types. It may not even matter in this application. Hold off on judgement until there's proof one way or another.

Enjoy your 30 series cards everyone.
gutcheck
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:10:18 (permalink)
So if we put a waterblock on the XC3 cards temps won’t be an issue. Will the 7x1 be an issue then? Is the 3090 different?

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:10:37 (permalink)
rain2_usa
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Maxidrom2002
U guys knew about this issue weeks, if not months ago...and you are all coming out of the closet now...ONLY BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENT REPORTING. This is not how u build trust...


Agree

Because none of the EVGA retail cards have issues...absolutely no reason whatsoever to make a statement on an unreleased product where the issue was discovered and fixed before release.  


this is absolute nonsense.
 

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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:11:37 (permalink)
kyllin
I don't understand how 1 good square in the Ultra is good enough.  The other's with 1 at regular boost speeds are crashing.  And the FTW's have 2 with the same boost.


the capacitors on the back of the PCB arent the only variable in the power delivery for the cards. you're trying to over simplify a very complicated issue. 
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Re: Message about EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 POSCAPs 2020/09/25 19:12:17 (permalink)
Good to know. Glad I wasn't a beta tester.
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