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Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs

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z3r0t0l0rence
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/04 15:11:09 (permalink)
I've opted to not update.  I'm still running a older I7 930 on my personal desktop that I already had to drop from 4.2 to 4.0 due to performance degradation.  Add 5-30% and that might as well be my breaking point in forcing me to upgrade. 
 
Now,  worst part is for all my servers.  I can NOT have performance degradation on those due to this issue.  I do not want to deal with customers calling saying they are having performance issue.  Xeon chips are going to be affected by this as well. 
 
"possible massive Intel CPU hardware bug that directly opens up serious vulnerabilities on big cloud providers which offer shared hosting (several VMs on a single host), for example by letting a VM read from or write to another one."
 
Source
 
Myself and my Sr admin are tabling this issue for now,  our cloud environment can not have this kind performance issue.  It is the key part of our business.  We notified our customers of this.  Luckily all our customers completely understand that this has nothing to do with our platform and everything to do with the hardware mfg.
 
This issue goes well beyond what most of you think.  We're talking about major infrastructure on a national to global level.   

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#31
Davabled
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/04 15:15:56 (permalink)
For those testing benchmarks on Windows to see if the patch affects performance, please note that while you may have the patch installed, it is disabled until you also get a firmware update.  Meaning, you might not see a performance hit (and also won't be protected) with the patch installed until your hardware manufacturer also releases a firmware update.  (I'm hoping EVGA will make an announcement regarding firmware updates.)
Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12214/understanding-meltdown-and-spectre
(see the PowerShell screenshot about halfway through the article)
 
More verbose source for using PowerShell to check if your system has the patch installed and enabled:
https://www.bleepingcompu...and-spectre-cpu-flaws/
 
After installing the windows update, you can test whether the patch is enabled by using Windows Power Shell via the following commands
PS > Install-Module SpeculationControl
PS > Get-SpeculationControlSettings
source: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073119/windows-client-guidance-for-it-pros-to-protect-against-speculative-exe
 
If all of the results show True, then the patch is enabled and working.
 
IMPORTANT- If you change your execution policy in order to check your status, be sure to set it back to restricted using the following command:
PS > Set-ExecutionPolicy Restriced
 
 
post edited by Davabled - 2018/01/05 17:00:17
#32
Arctic. Light
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/04 18:42:02 (permalink)
I'm not around here much these days, and im not quick to jump on a bandwagon this quickly but my rig is getting older now.... i7 960......and i dont know if its a coincidence or not....I did an update last night thinking nothing of it, I have honestly been chasing weird performance issues all day.....I cant run alot of stuff i used to run yesturday....

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#33
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/04 23:03:53 (permalink)
"Apple says all iOS devices, Macs affected by processor flaws"

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#34
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/04 23:45:27 (permalink)
Davabled
For those testing benchmarks on Windows to see if the patch affects performance, please note that while you may have the patch installed, it is disabled until you also get a firmware update.  Meaning, you might not see a performance hit (and also won't be protected) with the patch installed until your hardware manufacturer also releases a firmware update.  (I'm hoping EVGA will make an announcement regarding firmware updates.)
Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12214/understanding-meltdown-and-spectre
(see the PowerShell screenshot about halfway through the article)
 
After installing the windows update, you can test whether the patch is enabled by using Windows Power Shell via the following commands
PS > Install-Module SpeculationControl
PS > Get-SpeculationControlSettings
source: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073119/windows-client-guidance-for-it-pros-to-protect-against-speculative-exe
 
If all of the results show True, then the patch is enabled and working.
 
 




Hmm, that wanted me to install something.  Not happening.  I started to and it gave a warning about untrusted repository. 

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#35
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 06:26:02 (permalink)
More benchmark testing
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZksorJAuY
 
 

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#36
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 06:47:49 (permalink)
bobmitch
More benchmark testing
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qZksorJAuY
 
 

Pointless test as his bios isn't updated yet.
#37
panzlock
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 07:13:55 (permalink)
CPU needs microcode update or patch is ineffective.
#38
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 10:09:04 (permalink)
well if the updates actually do reduce performance, thank goodness my i5 8600k runs rock solid @ 5 GHZ

 
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#39
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 11:46:13 (permalink)
panzlock
CPU needs microcode update or patch is ineffective.




So unless you have a recent motherboard, you're either "screwed" or "in luck" depending on how you look at it (being vulnerable vs. not taking a performance hit).  Asus hasn't put out a BIOS update for my Maximus VII board in like 2 years.

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#40
panzlock
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 11:57:40 (permalink)
flyinion
panzlock
CPU needs microcode update or patch is ineffective.




So unless you have a recent motherboard, you're either "screwed" or "in luck" depending on how you look at it (being vulnerable vs. not taking a performance hit).  Asus hasn't put out a BIOS update for my Maximus VII board in like 2 years.




Your board never received new BIOS updates because it didn't need them. This seems to be a critical issue so I'm sure all required updates will be provided for all hardware that requires the change.
 
ROG forum members are looking into the matter. Some claim they are unable to reach support. This also happened with the previous microcode when they could also not be reached, but the microcode showed up on their web page promptly. ASUS has a broad spectrum of board types for Intel and AMD so this will take some time.
#41
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:03:18 (permalink)
AMD is affected by the vulnerability, but its at the software level for them, instead of the a hardware level. Which makes its much easier for them to address this issue. Also you need physical access to the AMD systems to exploit this whereas the others can be hacked remotely. 

 
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#42
panzlock
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:13:33 (permalink)
I read the same. Hence why they are attempting patch exclusion.
#43
wmmills
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:24:12 (permalink)
Oh, did you guys see the icing on this terrible cake: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/intel-ceos-sale-of-stock-just-before-security-bug-reveal-raises-questions/  
Not that I would expect anything less from Intel and def not from upper management.
 
Arctic. Light
I'm not around here much these days, and im not quick to jump on a bandwagon this quickly but my rig is getting older now.... i7 960......and i dont know if its a coincidence or not....I did an update last night thinking nothing of it, I have honestly been chasing weird performance issues all day.....I cant run alot of stuff i used to run yesturday....

Yes, it will affect programs like cleaners, antivirus/malware, benchmarks of all types etc... so depending on what your running you can see upto a 50% reduction in results....if it doesn't just crash.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-every-modern-processor-has-unfixable-security-flaws/
post edited by wmmills - 2018/01/05 12:32:12

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#44
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:34:00 (permalink)
wmmills
Oh, did you guys see the icing on this terrible cake: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/intel-ceos-sale-of-stock-just-before-security-bug-reveal-raises-questions/  
Not that I would expect anything less from Intel and def not from upper management.
 
Arctic. Light
I'm not around here much these days, and im not quick to jump on a bandwagon this quickly but my rig is getting older now.... i7 960......and i dont know if its a coincidence or not....I did an update last night thinking nothing of it, I have honestly been chasing weird performance issues all day.....I cant run alot of stuff i used to run yesturday....

Yes, it will affect programs like cleaners, antivirus/malware, benchmarks of all types etc... so depending on what your running you can see upto a 50% reduction in results....if it doesn't just crash.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-every-modern-processor-has-unfixable-security-flaws/


Yep! their is a Thread about it  INTEL CEO sells off $39 million worth of shares  !!! ..before news went public

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#45
panzlock
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:34:13 (permalink)
This is the important part of the above mentioned article.
 

The Rule 10b5-1 plan under which Krzanich scheduled the stock sale is intended to shield executives from accusations of insider trading. But because of the timing of the plan and the length of time Intel kept the vulnerability secret, SEC officials could still see the maneuver as a trade based on insider information—especially if there was no other material reason for Krzanich to sell the stock.



 
#46
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:42:35 (permalink)
panzlock
This is the important part of the above mentioned article.
 
The Rule 10b5-1 plan under which Krzanich scheduled the stock sale is intended to shield executives from accusations of insider trading. But because of the timing of the plan and the length of time Intel kept the vulnerability secret, SEC officials could still see the maneuver as a trade based on insider information—especially if there was no other material reason for Krzanich to sell the stock.

You should post that here as well  INTEL CEO sells off $39 million worth of shares  !!! ..before news went public

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#47
panzlock
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 12:59:56 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
You should post that here as well  INTEL CEO sells off $39 million worth of shares  !!! ..before news went public




Good idea. And done.
#48
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 13:28:42 (permalink)
I like how a lot said on Microsoft fix   not a standalone intel fix.    so your still stuck with whats now windows roll up updating where you will have to accept all Microsoft updates you may not or don't want  to get that intel fix ?
 
now you see how easy it is for Microsoft to slip  you a mickey   . [like how they slipped that GWX in to everyone nor wise to that  before it started ]     when Microsoft took away you choice of being able to pick the updates you want  and decline what you did not want or need how this can end up ??? with this roll up updating you cant take just one  you have to take them all  and if you got to remove one for any reason you remove all in that roll up up date  .   all I see now form this is any exploiters  that did not know now know  or it too little too late anyway  if this been going on for years   or is this just under use of  that malware called windows 10  that exploits you right from the get go ??
 
then I guess its like all ways turn that internet off  if your not using it  if braking a connection helps brake there trying to do a exploit
#49
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 13:40:06 (permalink)
they should recall all the new 8th generation processors, fix them and resend out new ones.
 
+ to make matters worse.  Most people who have these processors paid over MSRP because of the shortage of processors

 
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#50
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 14:30:09 (permalink)
Dr.Death
I like how a lot said on Microsoft fix   not a standalone intel fix.    so your still stuck with whats now windows roll up updating where you will have to accept all Microsoft updates you may not or don't want  to get that intel fix ?
 
now you see how easy it is for Microsoft to slip  you a mickey   . [like how they slipped that GWX in to everyone nor wise to that  before it started ]     when Microsoft took away you choice of being able to pick the updates you want  and decline what you did not want or need how this can end up ??? with this roll up updating you cant take just one  you have to take them all  and if you got to remove one for any reason you remove all in that roll up up date  .   all I see now form this is any exploiters  that did not know now know  or it too little too late anyway  if this been going on for years   or is this just under use of  that malware called windows 10  that exploits you right from the get go ??
 
then I guess its like all ways turn that internet off  if your not using it  if braking a connection helps brake there trying to do a exploit


And you think that is Bad, No Patch for Windows XP and Server 2003.
Maybe this is all a Fixed Issue to Force Users to Update Their Computers.

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#51
Dr.Death
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 14:40:38 (permalink)
looks like no real fix overall  just some crutch work
 
Spectre, however, is going to be a trickier customer. It doesn't have any clean, simple fix. Operating system changes, ideally in conjunction with greater hardware control over branch prediction, will provide protection in some scenarios, but the array-bounds version of Spectre is going to require careful examination of, and repair to, vulnerable applications. Unlike the other attacks, there doesn't appear to be any way of implementing an operating system-level fix, and the application of appropriate application-level fixes is in all likelihood going to require lots of manual effort by developers.
Longer term, it seems likely that Meltdown will recede into the distance—an annoyance, perhaps, but fully patched and protected against—but the rather more subtle Spectre is going to be with us for a while
#52
bcavnaugh
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 14:49:10 (permalink)
Remember That This Is Only The Beginning Of What Might Be The End Of Computing As We Know It Today.

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#53
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 14:52:33 (permalink)
Intel can do a lot. But fixing a physical problem that exists for over 20 years looks different to me. The only thing they can do is something like "patch it up". Besides from my jokes here, I'm not a friend of big words, but this is monumental.
 
+ "One vulnerability could affect nearly every device made in the past 20 years - computers, servers, and phones", Source: https://www.theverge.com/...se-windows-macos-linux

 
#54
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 16:01:04 (permalink)
 I wonder if AMD helped find this "vulnerability."
 
Crap, I knew I should have bought a 1800x when was on sale during black Friday for $289.00.  Gosh, what was I thinking lol

 
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#56
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 16:11:31 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Remember That This Is Only The Beginning Of What Might Be The End Of Computing As We Know It Today.


^What!
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My head is spinning ... I'm I wrong in thing of sitting on my hands and watch the dust fly a little while longer? 1-3 months.

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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 17:52:27 (permalink)
I am now questioning if I even want to buy this i7 8700k now. I am now looking at the Ryzen, and I am not an AMD fan. I am not an average computer user. I am a gamer, video editor, pizza orderer, and programmer. I really wish I knew how much this is going to dent the performance of these high-end CPU’s, like the 8700k. Security first, I get that, but dang...

I am hungry.
#58
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 18:10:24 (permalink)
Reid01
I am now questioning if I even want to buy this i7 8700k now. I am now looking at the Ryzen, and I am not an AMD fan. I am not an average computer user. I am a gamer, video editor, pizza orderer, and programmer. I really wish I knew how much this is going to dent the performance of these high-end CPU’s, like the 8700k. Security first, I get that, but dang...



What resolution do you play at?  Even at 1080p the Ryzen 1800x does a pretty decent job.  Anything over 2k resolutions your bottleneck with bill your GPU and not your CPU.  However for video editing, programing, etc. you would be better off the the AMD chipset.
 
I believe that Intel will figure out a way to fix this issue without people losing 30% performance across the boards. 

 
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#59
Reid01
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Re: Intel: Serious Vulnerability Speculation in all CPUs 2018/01/05 18:16:13 (permalink)
VegetaCreeper
Reid01
I am now questioning if I even want to buy this i7 8700k now. I am now looking at the Ryzen, and I am not an AMD fan. I am not an average computer user. I am a gamer, video editor, pizza orderer, and programmer. I really wish I knew how much this is going to dent the performance of these high-end CPU’s, like the 8700k. Security first, I get that, but dang...



What resolution do you play at?  Even at 1080p the Ryzen 1800x does a pretty decent job.  Anything over 2k resolutions your bottleneck with bill your GPU and not your CPU.  However for video editing, programing, etc. you would be better off the the AMD chipset.
 
I believe that Intel will figure out a way to fix this issue without people losing 30% performance across the boards. 


Good points. I play at 1920 x 1080; however, I am looking at investing into a 34” ultrawide (still cannot figure out which I want, but I will open another thread for that).

My games and specific applications are CPU intensive, which is what I am worried about. In some benchmarks, Ryzen is doing better. I am wondering when we will start seeing some intel benchmarks after the update is (or has been applied) to see some benchmarks.

I am hungry.
#60
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