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I ordered the elusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday.

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Flonkam
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/08 15:58:48 (permalink)
 
rdmetz
Thr fact is the card isn't really stable at anything other than 1080p and it doesn't "feel" good to use the card...

I just wanted others who are looking for the same benefits I was (AAA gaming at 4k max settings with a minimum 60fps) and the real world results they may see when actually playing said games. [Emphasis added--Flonkam]

...knowing that the cards ability to handle 4k is quite limited by its arbitrary power settings more than anything else.

I bought my 2080 Ti Black for the same reason: I have become accustomed to a vsync-locked 60 - 85 fps, and always desire to max all non-gimmick/garbage settings. Until last year, I had always gamed on a CRT, so that I could simply adjust my resolution and refresh rate if it was necessary to maintain glass-smooth vsynced motion.
 
But when my last CRT died and I picked up a 4K display, I suddenly required far more GPU power than ever before, as the resolution and refresh rate cannot be altered (being an OLED, I can't run a lower res 1:1, nor would I want a smaller image anyway).
 
Getting to the point, I wanted to say that I have been gaming in 4K for several months without any issues that I've noticed, but I haven't played anything newer than DOOM 2016. At the same time, I've usually had to apply a lot of multisampling or supersampling, as pixels are fairly large when your eyes are 18" away from a 55" screen, so my 2080 Ti has experienced a considerably higher utilization than it otherwise would with older games.
 
If I understand you correctly, it doesn't really matter what game one is running, or even necessarily that the resolution is 4K, but only that the utilization is 60% or higher--is that correct? What I don't know is whether I have had this throttling and just never realized it. It looks like you are going to return your card, but nevertheless I will try to actually record my clock speeds and report back here on whether or not my card is behaving the same way.
rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/09 12:44:06 (permalink)
Flonkam
 
rdmetz
Thr fact is the card isn't really stable at anything other than 1080p and it doesn't "feel" good to use the card...

I just wanted others who are looking for the same benefits I was (AAA gaming at 4k max settings with a minimum 60fps) and the real world results they may see when actually playing said games. [Emphasis added--Flonkam]

...knowing that the cards ability to handle 4k is quite limited by its arbitrary power settings more than anything else.

I bought my 2080 Ti Black for the same reason: I have become accustomed to a vsync-locked 60 - 85 fps, and always desire to max all non-gimmick/garbage settings. Until last year, I had always gamed on a CRT, so that I could simply adjust my resolution and refresh rate if it was necessary to maintain glass-smooth vsynced motion.
 
But when my last CRT died and I picked up a 4K display, I suddenly required far more GPU power than ever before, as the resolution and refresh rate cannot be altered (being an OLED, I can't run a lower res 1:1, nor would I want a smaller image anyway).
 
Getting to the point, I wanted to say that I have been gaming in 4K for several months without any issues that I've noticed, but I haven't played anything newer than DOOM 2016. At the same time, I've usually had to apply a lot of multisampling or supersampling, as pixels are fairly large when your eyes are 18" away from a 55" screen, so my 2080 Ti has experienced a considerably higher utilization than it otherwise would with older games.
 
If I understand you correctly, it doesn't really matter what game one is running, or even necessarily that the resolution is 4K, but only that the utilization is 60% or higher--is that correct? What I don't know is whether I have had this throttling and just never realized it. It looks like you are going to return your card, but nevertheless I will try to actually record my clock speeds and report back here on whether or not my card is behaving the same way.


I am as of today its packed up and going back tomorrow, I do think it would be helpful if you could record your stats while gaming and from what I can tell yes it's a gpu usage issue but I can't confirm that just that at 1080p I never saw my card over 55 or so percent usage and it was only then that power limit never kicked in and the card was able to keep its clocks stable. 1440p it bounced both above and below 60% gpu usage so the power limit was on and off pretty much constantly and at 4K it stayed on all the time as the gpu was being worked at 90% or more all the time.

To me power limit shouldn't be kicking on until atleast the gpu is hitting 100% power and then even higher for when you bump the power.

I don't know all the details of what correlates power usage to gpu usage but it seems quite low if that power limit can only allow the card to use 60% of its performance.
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/09 13:31:20 (permalink)
Your GPU usage won't be high on lesser resolution because it isn't as demanding as it would be for 4K.  

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rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/09 13:34:08 (permalink)
GTXJackBauer
Your GPU usage won't be high on lesser resolution because it isn't as demanding as it would be for 4K.  


No I understand that it's that the card isn't able to deliver 100 % gpu usage without hitting 100% power.

Getting only 60% of your card only isn't really what I call proper usage.
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/09 13:55:19 (permalink)
rdmetz
GTXJackBauer
Your GPU usage won't be high on lesser resolution because it isn't as demanding as it would be for 4K.  


No I understand that it's that the card isn't able to deliver 100 % gpu usage without hitting 100% power.

Getting only 60% of your card only isn't really what I call proper usage.



I understand but it's also possible it could be some bottlenecking or just the GPU isn't delivering (defective aka RMA time).

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rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/09 13:59:29 (permalink)
GTXJackBauer
rdmetz
GTXJackBauer
Your GPU usage won't be high on lesser resolution because it isn't as demanding as it would be for 4K.  


No I understand that it's that the card isn't able to deliver 100 % gpu usage without hitting 100% power.

Getting only 60% of your card only isn't really what I call proper usage.



I understand but it's also possible it could be some bottlenecking or just the GPU isn't delivering (defective aka RMA time).


Yea it's going back tomorrow just got done packing it up.

I would just like others with the card to post some of their usage results at 4k and see if it was just my card or if it's indicitive of the way this cards power delivery is setup.

Just like to see someone getting 90% or more gpu usage while also not hitting power limit. Heck even anything above 60%. Having the 112% power limit the card should definitely be able to atleast do that.
Flonkam
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/10 19:13:24 (permalink)
rdmetz
I do think it would be helpful if you could record your stats while gaming and from what I can tell yes it's a gpu usage issue...

 
I wasn't able to do much testing yet, but I did run one benchmark.
 
I first was going to run Fallout: New Vegas at 7680 x 4320 (4K + 4x DSR) since that is what I am currently playing, but although I did this a few weeks ago, for some reason the game refused to load with a "Failure to initialize renderer" Gamebryo error.
 
Instead, I ran the Unigine Heaven benchmark at 4K. I used NVIDIA Inspector to monitor the Clock Speed and Utilization, and to output the measurements to a file. I did not overclock the card at all--I just wanted to see what the card was doing under high utilization.

Here is a chart I produced, in which Clock is red and Utilization is blue. Clock is listed on the left side, and runs from 1350 to 1850 MHz:
 

 
It does appear that there is a roughly inverse correlation between utilization and clock speed. But the interesting point is that my 2080 Ti Black Edition lists the base speed as 1350 MHz, and the boost speed as 1545 MHz. Yet my clock speed never dropped below ~1530 MHz, and rose all the way to 1800 MHz. It appears that, even when my utilization was at ~95%, my clock speed remained well above the stated boost speed.
 
In addition to a general reduction of clock speed as utilization increases, there also seems to be a hard limit of 1800 MHz. Is that upper limit what is being adjusted when the card is overclocked? This is only a single test, but this test would suggest that--as far as clock speeds go--I have actually gotten more than I bargained for.
 
However, I'm in the same boat as you, in which I need as much GPU power as possible in the quest to maintain framerates that do not drop below 60 at 4K. So while there doesn't appear to be any valid complaint regarding clocks that would warrant a return, if another 2080 Ti version can provide, say, at least 10% more performance for no more than 10% higher cost, that doesn't seem like a bad deal (the already inflated prices notwithstanding).
 
If you have any specific testing you would like me to do, I can try it as long as I have the software.
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/10 20:35:42 (permalink)
The 2080 Ti GPUs are better suited for 1440p 144hz vs 4K 60+.  I still think there needs to be more GPU power.  If you don't like sub 60 dips, you'll probably need GPU power that can carry 4K @ 100+ FPS but were obviously not there yet afaik.  Maybe the next gen or two I think we'll be there.

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oscyjack
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/10 20:47:04 (permalink)
The 1080ti, 2080 and 2080ti are cards that differentiate themselves at above 1080p resolution and at higher refresh rates. Using them at 1080p you will see little difference between them. 1080p is a resolution that is reliant on the CPU, rather than the gpu. The opposite is true as the resolution increases.

I didn't see the OP mention what psu they were using? Or any measured sensors indicating if the proper powers were even available or delivered?

It could definitely be a hardware issue but there are things to rule out as well. My black edition gets to 99% utilisation on benchmarks fwiw
oscyjack
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/10 20:59:05 (permalink)
Wow I jumped from page 1 to 25. Ignore me haha
rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/11 01:54:07 (permalink)
Evga platinum 1200 watt power supply on its own dedicated 12v rail I don't think power is the issue for me.
jrasero
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/16 14:37:16 (permalink)
when will they restock these?  They clearly have stock since they have them on EBAY
Flonkam
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/17 06:49:11 (permalink)
jrasero
when will they restock these?  They clearly have stock since they have them on EBAY

I've never heard that EVGA sells theirs cards on Ebay, but you can register to be notified via email whenever a currently unavailable card is in stock.
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/17 07:36:41 (permalink)
Flonkam
jrasero
when will they restock these?  They clearly have stock since they have them on EBAY

I've never heard that EVGA sells theirs cards on Ebay, but you can register to be notified via email whenever a currently unavailable card is in stock.


They have their own evga ebay store as well
Cool GTX
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/17 08:05:23 (permalink)
Welcome to the Official EVGA ebay Store
 
 
You are buying Directly from EVGA

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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/17 17:32:18 (permalink)
Cool GTX
Welcome to the Official EVGA ebay Store
 
 
You are buying Directly from EVGA


With no associates discount code :/

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rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/17 19:34:53 (permalink)
My old card is returned and my new xc direct from evga and with the associates discount only costed me 90 extra. I'll let you guys know the results of what it does once it's in hand. I have detailed logs of the black cards performance under multiple scenarios and will retest in the same manner.

Then you'll know for sure if it's something worth taking into account when purchasing this card.
Flonkam
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/18 05:41:23 (permalink)
rdmetz
My old card is returned and my new xc direct from evga and with the associates discount only costed me 90 extra. I'll let you guys know the results of what it does once it's in hand. I have detailed logs of the black cards performance under multiple scenarios and will retest in the same manner.

Then you'll know for sure if it's something worth taking into account when purchasing this card.

That sounds great--I will look forward to it.
 
Also, I don't know if I was eligible for this "Associate's Discount" when I purchased my 2080 Ti in December, but I definitely did not know about it. Oh, well.
rdmetz
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/04/30 12:59:48 (permalink)
OK I'm back after quite a bit due to the fact the first xc card I received was defective and had to be returned (just sent back today after they provided me a cross ship new replacement).

New card is doing great and hit 2010 on air after turning up power limit to 130 (black card could only do 112) and running the oc scan tool (landed on +180 oc with it) at 73c max temp.

Under water these settings turned into a card that hits and holds 2100mhz at 42c max temp.

I'm very happy with the results and is exactly what I was looking for a card that can ACTUALLY hold it's clocks.

Much more stable fps now and in many games where fps bounced around 60 both above and below now I'm seeing fps that stay above 60 always and tend to not fluctuate nearly as much.
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/01 13:39:00 (permalink)
rdmetz
OK I'm back after quite a bit due to the fact the first xc card I received was defective and had to be returned (just sent back today after they provided me a cross ship new replacement).

New card is doing great and hit 2010 on air after turning up power limit to 130 (black card could only do 112) and running the oc scan tool (landed on +180 oc with it) at 73c max temp.

Under water these settings turned into a card that hits and holds 2100mhz at 42c max temp.

I'm very happy with the results and is exactly what I was looking for a card that can ACTUALLY hold it's clocks.

Much more stable fps now and in many games where fps bounced around 60 both above and below now I'm seeing fps that stay above 60 always and tend to not fluctuate nearly as much.



Temps and clocks look good.  Glad it all worked out. 

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Flonkam
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/02 06:24:45 (permalink)
rdmetz
Under water these settings turned into a card that hits and holds 2100mhz at 42c max temp.

I'm very happy with the results and is exactly what I was looking for a card that can ACTUALLY hold it's clocks.

Much more stable fps now and in many games where fps bounced around 60 both above and below now I'm seeing fps that stay above 60 always and tend to not fluctuate nearly as much.



I had always thought that a GPU operated and stayed at a given desired clock speed, regardless of utilization, and only reduced the clock speed when the temperature approached the thermal limit, or when utilization is low in order to save power.
 
Does the information that you provided mean that this is in fact how NVIDIA's GPUs normally behave, and the constant clock speed fluctuation of the 2080 Ti Black is unique (Illustrated in the graph of my earlier post #248)? Or is it that cards normally fluctuate, and your card is the unique version that doesn't?
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/02 06:44:56 (permalink)
Flonkam
rdmetz
Under water these settings turned into a card that hits and holds 2100mhz at 42c max temp.

I'm very happy with the results and is exactly what I was looking for a card that can ACTUALLY hold it's clocks.

Much more stable fps now and in many games where fps bounced around 60 both above and below now I'm seeing fps that stay above 60 always and tend to not fluctuate nearly as much.



I had always thought that a GPU operated and stayed at a given desired clock speed, regardless of utilization, and only reduced the clock speed when the temperature approached the thermal limit, or when utilization is low in order to save power.
 
Does the information that you provided mean that this is in fact how NVIDIA's GPUs normally behave, and the constant clock speed fluctuation of the 2080 Ti Black is unique (Illustrated in the graph of my earlier post #248)? Or is it that cards normally fluctuate, and your card is the unique version that doesn't?


Nvidia Boost 4.0 will attempt to give all the performance possible & Required by the load.
 
Power, Voltage & Temp limits will restrict performance .... including stepping down clocks as limits are approached ... this is Not throttling which happens when the Max temp is approached to prevent overheating the GPU

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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/02 07:28:30 (permalink)
Cool GTX
Nvidia Boost 4.0 will attempt to give all the performance possible & Required by the load.
 
Power, Voltage & Temp limits will restrict performance .... including stepping down clocks as limits are approached ... this is Not throttling which happens when the Max temp is approached to prevent overheating the GPU



Thanks for the reply.
 
I guess I didn't fully appreciate what "boost" technology does. It seemed odd to me that clock speeds would be decreasing even when temperatures are well below limits, but it's actually the opposite: As long as temps are good, the clock speed is remaining at or above the rated speed, and actually increasing whenever possible to provide more performance.
 
One thing I'm still not clear about: It sounds like liquid cooling a 2080 Ti Black may not be worth it for the purpose of overclocking, due to the power limits kicking in way before temp limits...is this true?
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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/02 08:56:01 (permalink)
In reply to your question above: the Nvidia Boost 4.0 (Algorithm) for Amps / Volts / MHz & Temps --> something has to give when approaching the design limits
 
Less Power Phases & lower power limits are a real concern if OC is your goal

OC is Never guaranteed - Only the advertised MHz --> so buy the clock speed you want



The question becomes - Does the $999 Black have an "A chip" ?

All "Non-A" GPU chips are limited By Nvidia to stock clock & the BIOS Can Not be replace by that of say another card with a higher power limit
 
 
This will explain it better than I could:  NVIDIA's Secret GPU: TU106-400A vs. TU106-400 Benchmark (2070 XC Ultra Review)
 
 
EVGA 2080 Ti Compare (All cards)
 
 
EVGA Speck sheet:  EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti BLACK EDITION GAMING, 11G-P4-2281-KR
 
 
 
 

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Re: I ordered the illusive $999 2080 Ti Black Edition Gaming yesterday. 2019/05/02 09:31:11 (permalink)
Flonkam
Cool GTX
Nvidia Boost 4.0 will attempt to give all the performance possible & Required by the load.
 
Power, Voltage & Temp limits will restrict performance .... including stepping down clocks as limits are approached ... this is Not throttling which happens when the Max temp is approached to prevent overheating the GPU



Thanks for the reply.
 
I guess I didn't fully appreciate what "boost" technology does. It seemed odd to me that clock speeds would be decreasing even when temperatures are well below limits, but it's actually the opposite: As long as temps are good, the clock speed is remaining at or above the rated speed, and actually increasing whenever possible to provide more performance.
 
One thing I'm still not clear about: It sounds like liquid cooling a 2080 Ti Black may not be worth it for the purpose of overclocking, due to the power limits kicking in way before temp limits...is this true?


Below 40c you'll see good clocks but yeah with a high power limit it wont matter as you'll be hitting the power limit on a high load and the clocks will drop.

Basically.. it might be fine if your card temp is maxing out around 70+c. And it will be quieter without the loud fans running super fast to keep the temps down.

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