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Hot!Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet?

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AHowes
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2019/04/30 14:19:43 (permalink)
After my first night of clocking to 2360mhz and 8450mhz ram clock and seeing the benchmarks the same as if I was running at 2130mhz. Just over 18k in firestrike extreme, I'm a little discouraged.

Seeing how my former ftw3 ultra was benching much higher at 2160 +500 and seeing Tin mention that the card isint running 2300mhz at above 0 temps and it must be throttling, I'm guessing there must be some unseen wall up on performance.

What's the top secret formula to get this card to open up so I can judge it against my former card?

So far my advice is to stick with a regular card if your a gamer. I cant see normal every day people going threw hoops and experiments to unlock the performance in this card that they would just get buying a much cheaper card and doing a standard 2100+ overclock and set it and go.

Did they put a few too many performance caps in the card unless your doing ln2 to unlock the performace?

I've read of a few posts of kingpin users mentioning clocks stuck under 2200 and a few over 2200?
Is the clocks meaningless on these cards? I mean were used to comparing card value by the overclocks were able to achieve and now that's not right?

At default boost (2055) the card scored 16.5k in firestrike extreme.. and 18k at 2130. 2175,2205,2220,2250,2320,2360 all at 18,100ish.

Mem clock seemed to add +25-50 to benches.

Power was only a little over 300watts and core temps in the 36-38c max.

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 14:51:29 (permalink)
    You running the xoc bios?

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    EVGATech_AdamB
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 14:59:33 (permalink)
    Getting 2300+ mhz on the Hybrid cooler is still pretty good. Your FTW3 Ultra may have just been a silicon lottery winner and was a lucky card. You might want to check out the RTX 2080Ti Kingpin guide that TiN wrote at the link here: https://xdevs.com/guide/2080ti_kpe/. On their own chart they were getting instability unless the card was at sub-zero temperatures.
     
     

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    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 15:47:13 (permalink)
    Sajin
    You running the xoc bios?


    No oc bios on the card by switch.

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 16:27:38 (permalink)
    Try the xoc bios.

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    #5
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 17:06:01 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Try the xoc bios.


    Voids warranty. Trying to atleast get the same performance of the ftw3 ultra I had returned at 2160mhz were it had the best benchmarks at. Card could bench at 2205..
    post edited by AHowes - 2019/04/30 17:54:20

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 17:36:52 (permalink)
    I see. Well that is the secret to the kingpin. 

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    #7
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 17:53:35 (permalink)
    Sajin
    I see. Well that is the secret to the kingpin. 


    Basically removes all power limits.. so I'm guessing I'm facing a power limit that their is no visual notification for other then 0 performance gain after 2130mhz.

    Had no idea before from reading all about all these other vintage settings which were talked about to just stabilize and aid in overclocking. Figured most of that would be for ln2 users going for crazy overclocks.

    So now I just gota figure out if theirs something wrong with the card preventing it from scaling right?

    Use the classified tool thats an aid to stabilize overclocks with hope's that it somehow opens up a secret door and the card is able to breath at a lower mhz? Seems a needle in the hay stack..

    And this is all so competitive.. is that what this is?? Hundreds of kingpin owners have it figured out and wont share.

    Can anyone understand my frustrations?

    Card clocks to whatever I ask it.. holds the clocks period.. never moves! No power/voltage/temp limits hit but the scores dont increase!

    No one else with a kingpin has this issue?? Or maybe just dont know?


    I'm just stressed out cause I did a new build and a month later return the card and made more purchases on a new case idea and another 16 rad fans, more longer tubing, coolant and paste.. basicly dumping another 3 grand into the build and could be all for worse.

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    EVGATech_AdamB
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 17:55:02 (permalink)
    Whats the score? Can you post a link to your 3D Mark results?

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:00:45 (permalink)
    I can understand your frustration. Your cheaper card outperformed the kingpin. 

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    #10
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:13:49 (permalink)
    Last one from first night.. last test so far

    2130mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199355

    2160mhz and slower.. https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199280

    2175mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199223

    2310mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199114


    2235mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199084


    2235mhz again https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199044

    2265mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19198845

    2250mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19198823

    Firestrike extreme Ftw3 ultra

    Only 2160mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19124405

    Firestrike 1.1 ftw3 ultra

    2205mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19097982

    With the kingpin at 2310mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199152

    That should paint the picture.

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:18:21 (permalink)

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    #12
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:23:53 (permalink)
    Yeah so what's the wall the card is hitting?

    Hint please to give me a direction to go?

    I just wanted a card with a higher limit or no limit.. figured 2200mhz+ and no power limit would be me much higher scores then the ftw3 ultra hitting the limit all the time at the same clock.. since if I down clocked her to 2145/2160 she stayed under the limit well enough to get alot higher bench scores..

    That right their was like wow.. either go with a cheaper card and lower clocks for higher frame rate or go with a bigger card with no power limit to get the scores I'm imagining.. figured the kingpin was the answer.

    If theirs a hidden limits thats holding the 360-400+ power I'd like to know what bios I need to be using.. as it stand now the ftw3 has a much less power limiter then the kingpin at same temps.

    My ftw3 with block had 36-39c times at 40c durring games.. kingpin at 36-38c.. have not gamed.
    post edited by AHowes - 2019/04/30 18:34:30

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    #13
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:38:08 (permalink)
    Thx for that bcavnaugh.. tuff to do that on the phone hehe.

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:39:01 (permalink)
    AHowes
    2130mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199355

    2310mhz https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19199114

    That should paint the picture.

    Ouch. Only a 0.5 to 0.9 fps increase. 
     
     

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    #15
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:40:26 (permalink)
    Yeah really puts it in perspective right?

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    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:40:48 (permalink)
    Yeah.

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    wwxww
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:42:44 (permalink)
    I expected big numbers from you guys. I see the two of you pushing, but the scores are not showing up. I am a bit confused. Is this card for sub 0, mostly? They seem very finicky. I may have no business owning one, yet, I ordered two.
    #18
    HawkOculus
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:47:17 (permalink)
    So you swapped a silicon lottery winner for a silicon lottery winner that you had to pay extra for. I mean, you knew the FTW3 had a golden chip, right? 
    That and beyond a certain point on the stock cooler the performance isn't gonna scale that well with increased clocks. Not unless you go colder. 
    Gaming loads and performance are going to be likely similar to other high end 2080 Tis (MSI Lightning, Asus Matrix).
    I'm not really sure why you're surprised. I'm happy with my Kingpin because the Strix I sold to get it had meh overclocking and was super noisy when overclocked to similar clocks. And even then it couldn't even do anything close to 2100 Mhz stable in games on air. 
    #19
    Sajin
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:50:45 (permalink)
    I think you're seeing instability to produce a stable fps number due to the card running at 30c. At 2300 MHz you need to be at -30c for the card to produce stable fps numbers.

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    #20
    ty_ger07
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 18:56:49 (permalink)
    wwxww
    Is this card for sub 0, mostly?



    I mean, if you want to spend the money, it's for whatever you buy it for; but the design of Kingpin cards has always been for sub zero.  Without sub zero cooling, its design capabilities are completely unachievable.
     
    The name of the card should be a dead giveaway.  Kingpin.  If you google Vince and Kingpin, the first image you see is him standing with a pot of liquid nitrogen.
    #21
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:01:39 (permalink)
    wwxww
    I expected big numbers from you guys. I see the two of you pushing, but the scores are not showing up. I am a bit confused. Is this card for sub 0, mostly? They seem very finicky. I may have no business owning one, yet, I ordered two.


    Yes... they are absolutely designed for subzero temps.. they have been for almost 6 years now. Not just mostly either.

    Yes, K|ngp|n and T|n put extra work in to make sure it was decent for above ambient this round, but the whole premise of the card is extreme benchmarking under extreme cold.

      <- Clickable link to my Main PC Specs
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    tt0ne
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:10:03 (permalink)
    Kingpin cards are made for overclockers and people that want to know when they put it under ice or LN2 the only limitations they will be up against is how cool can can they get the card. Regarding your clocks - 2300 is ridiculous and even if you managed to get through a benchmark you weren't even remotely close to being stable. So you are right - if you bought the card for anything else other than extreme overclocking or you just like the idea of having a card that will be there when you decide you want to start doing that kind of stuff then it was a bad purchasing decision. There are a whole bunch of people in Europe and Australia and basically everywhere else in the world that would kill to have your "under performing let down of a card" - all of them wishing they were unboxing it so they could get the AIO cooler off it and loaded with a GPU pot to up their scores.
     
    I'm not trying to be totally insensitive but since you are framing this with statements like "kind of puts things into perspective, right?" I can't see any other way to respond other than to be direct.
     
    One more thing. RE: clocks in general. 2100 and above is a golden card. All these people doing benchmarks past that is great - and for benchmarking it's all about getting the score and getting through it without crashing - but they aren't stable. Maybe they play a few rounds in a game and think things are good but go check the event log and see how many times your nvidia driver reset. Have they run any tests with 30 minutes duration or longer? Go run Kombuster or Furmark for an hour and let me know if you are stable 2200. In fact, you might get through it but you were getting throttled by your power limit. I've got a FTW3 Ultra that is sitting under a waterblock and a chiller at 19 degrees at this very moment. You know what my stable overclock is using the Asus unlocked power limit BIOS is and set at 1.093 max volts? +100 on the core. Of course I can go higher to get through some benchmarks but +100 is what I can do when I run 30 minutes of 4k Furmark despite maxing out at 30 degrees. Most people would be thrilled to be idling at 30 degrees. These same people are complaining about not getting +9999999.9 mhz more on their cores? Craziness.
    post edited by tt0ne - 2019/04/30 19:12:48

    ---

     
    #23
    degenerate
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:11:02 (permalink)
    AHowes
    After my first night of clocking to 2360mhz and 8450mhz ram clock and seeing the benchmarks the same as if I was running at 2130mhz. Just over 18k in firestrike extreme, I'm a little discouraged.

    Seeing how my former ftw3 ultra was benching much higher at 2160 +500 and seeing Tin mention that the card isint running 2300mhz at above 0 temps and it must be throttling, I'm guessing there must be some unseen wall up on performance.

    What's the top secret formula to get this card to open up so I can judge it against my former card?

    So far my advice is to stick with a regular card if your a gamer. I cant see normal every day people going threw hoops and experiments to unlock the performance in this card that they would just get buying a much cheaper card and doing a standard 2100+ overclock and set it and go.

    Did they put a few too many performance caps in the card unless your doing ln2 to unlock the performace?

    I've read of a few posts of kingpin users mentioning clocks stuck under 2200 and a few over 2200?
    Is the clocks meaningless on these cards? I mean were used to comparing card value by the overclocks were able to achieve and now that's not right?

    At default boost (2055) the card scored 16.5k in firestrike extreme.. and 18k at 2130. 2175,2205,2220,2250,2320,2360 all at 18,100ish.

    Mem clock seemed to add +25-50 to benches.

    Power was only a little over 300watts and core temps in the 36-38c max.



    I don't want to be a downer but... you should have kept your golden FTW3 man. Pretty sure I gave you my $0.02 about that before the first KPE batch on April 8th.
     
    The stable limit for most if not all KPE's in an open-loop setting with a low ambient temp (think chiller) will be in the 2250mhz range. It is temperature limited at that point, unlocked power limit will not help. In order to get to 2300mhz and beyond you will need sub-ambient cooling. If you want to take that even higher you will need to go sub-zero.
     
    There is no guarantee any random AIB card(s) will hit the 2100+mhz you referenced either, it's a lottery. KPE's aren't "officially" guaranteed either but at least they are hand-binned and I have yet to see anyone unable to hit 2150mhz right out of the gate, plug'n'play.
     
    Even with multiple KPE's released over the years many people still don't seem to understand what they're getting into when they decide to purchase one. (Speaking in generalities here, not singling you out AHowes.)
    post edited by degenerate - 2019/04/30 19:14:49


    #24
    HawkOculus
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:12:19 (permalink)
    Sajin
    I think you're seeing instability to produce a stable fps number due to the card running at 30c. At 2300 MHz you need to be at -30c for the card to produce stable fps numbers.



    Yep.
     
    Mine will "clock" to slightly lower numbers than 2300 (never tried to push it higher) but it just becomes unstable after a short time. 
    #25
    wwxww
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:21:27 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    wwxww
    Is this card for sub 0, mostly?



    I mean, if you want to spend the money, it's for whatever you buy it for; but the design of Kingpin cards has always been for sub zero.  Without sub zero cooling, its design capabilities are completely unachievable.
     
    The name of the card should be a dead giveaway.  Kingpin.  If you google Vince and Kingpin, the first image you see is him standing with a pot of liquid nitrogen.


    Yes, for sure, but I expected at a given speed that the card would outperform all other cards at that speed, mostly. I saw the graph a few days ago with stability and temp. I figured I would be good or better than good until I figured out a cooling solution. This is different all together.
    Europe needs a few cards. If it doesn't work out for me, it's OK.


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    tt0ne
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 19:33:54 (permalink)
    wwxww
    Yes, for sure, but I expected at a given speed that the card would outperform all other cards at that speed, mostly. I saw the graph a few days ago with stability and temp. I figured I would be good or better than good until I figured out a cooling solution. This is different all together.
    Europe needs a few cards. If it doesn't work out for me, it's OK.



    It's an AIO cooler - should it really outperform my FTW3 Ultra with a HC waterblock and water chiller instead of a radiator? No it shouldn't. But does it? It appears most of them do. Once again - say it with me - ALL IN ONE COOLER - the kind of thing you get from Corsair at Fry's. How much do you think that little radiator if you could call it that costs to make? Even if the Kingpin didn't quite score as high as my FTw3 and was overclocked a little bit less in it's default configuration the question would be which card is better performing card? I'd say the Kingpin because what would happen if I put that same card under my FTW3 configuration?
     
    If you just want the highest performance with the least amount of work go buy a Titan. If you want to do some work and make those who buy Titans feel bad - buy a Kingpin.

    ---

     
    #27
    gaubry
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 20:13:23 (permalink)
    I won’t be complaining about my FTW3 Hybrid that does 2175mhz and +1500mhz in Firestrike. It put out 40,600+ Graphics in Firestrike which seems to be up there with most AIO cooked KPE. If I had a 240mm rad or block it would be doing even better.
    #28
    bcavnaugh
    The Crunchinator
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 20:20:15 (permalink)
    gaubry
    I won’t be complaining about my FTW3 Hybrid that does 2175mhz and +1500mhz in Firestrike. It put out 40,600+ Graphics in Firestrike which seems to be up there with most AIO cooked KPE. If I had a 240mm rad or block it would be doing even better.

    Post the Link to that Score so we can all marvel over it.

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    "Earn EVGA Bucks For Folding with EVGA!" it is not "Fold for EVGA Bucks with EVGA!" “Do it for the sake of it"



    #29
    AHowes
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    Re: Anyone figure out the Kingpin card yet? 2019/04/30 20:21:07 (permalink)
    I dont think you guys actually read my posts!

    Dont even feel like responding to what you said.

    I dont care about the overclock at this point! I'm not stupid to really think the card would run at 2300mhz at this temp but it is so?

    I want to know why the cards performance is turtle at 2130+ compared to what I've already experianced?

    If shes throttling at 2250-2360 fine.. why is it also happening at 2130+? Is 2130mhz too much for the mighty kingpin card as well?

    36-37c too much for 2100+ and a unseen limit throttles to keep the temp down?


    The difference on the ftw3 with hydro block and stock cooler was massive really. Showed me the card needed sub 40c to open up. On water 2205.. on air I was lucky to get 2145 I think.. have to check my notes.. might of been lower. But I dont remember any throttling going on.

    Ph and yes for the one guy I did run the card for hours and hours at a time at 2190mhz rock stable on bf5 many a night. No power limit hit.

    I just expect a kingpin and ftw3 (same chip!) To perform close to each other at the same clock.

    If a clock was good for a ftw3 on air it should be just fine on the kingpin with hybrid cool running lower temps.

    What made me decide to return the ftw3 cause I realized that the high overclock I was getting on the ftw3 didnt mean squat in reality in benches. It would hit the power limit many times and cause the clocks to drop after like 113% and then recover.

    So what was the point! It would bench higher at 2145-2160 then at 2190/2205. So if that's the case the kingpin looked appealing big time as I figured from reports it will use 400-520watts of power over the 383 max I was seeing. Meaning if I got over 2130mhz on the kingpin that wouldn't hit the limit durring benches it should score much higher. So that's the point.

    Now I'm faced with some crazy hidden power wall that's throttling the power so I'm worse off regardless of the clocks!

    Guess I'll start benching below 2100 and see what's up.

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    #30
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