the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 20:05:46
(permalink)
Ty_ger07 is definitely one of the more trusted members I refer to on these forums. As I have stated too many time to care, the K|ngp|n is not meant or marketed for Casual gamers. Just because (causal) people are willing to waste... YES, WASTE... the money because they see higher numbers is entertaining at best. I wasted the money with the intention of going beyond the 0c ambient, but money is currently a limiting factor... I currently have the entire computer broke down as I redo all of the tubing, and I MAY wait to put it back together until next month, but I doubt I am that patient.
|
antandbetty
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 318
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2014/12/01 19:13:42
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 20:22:54
(permalink)
Ty_ger07 must therefor know more about the co-designer of the card and the engineer that helps kingpin come up with the design. Maybe he does......But I will take Kingpin & Tin's word over anyone in this forum. It boils down to the cards designer who made these statements and not myself. Make of it what you will. Any gpu should be able to clock higher on water then on air if addition voltage is applied & that is clearly not the case with the current cards. That being said water cooling has no effect on the kpe and should only be used under LN2. My advise if you want to argue the statement is to head over to kingpin cooling as linked below and maybe have Vince go into further detail then he did with me as i am no engineer. http://kingpincooling.com....php?t=3659&page=6
post edited by antandbetty - 2015/07/05 20:28:03
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free" R.R.
|
RainStryke
The Advocate
- Total Posts : 15872
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2007/07/19 19:26:55
- Location: Kansas
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 60
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 21:09:13
(permalink)
I'm pretty happy with my 81.6% ASIC on my MSI Gaming GTX 980. I thought about getting one of those Kingpin cards because of the way it's marketed with the upgraded HSF that can change colors and the upgraded PCB with 14+3 power phase power delivery. If you think EVGA makes it's abundantly clear that these are specifically LN2 cooled cards, you would be wrong. If they were LN2 class cards, they wouldn't even come with a HSF as they'd be a waste of the companies money since it would be a waste of materials for the intended user. They also don't even mention that they bin the GPU's to work better towards LN2 cooling, they actually don't mention anything about LN2 cooling at all in their article: http://www.evga.com/articles/00904/EVGA-GeForce-GTX-980-KINGPIN-ACX-2/ You can see a BIOS switch with a LN2 setting on the pictures, but that's it. These were clearly marketed as the best overclocking video card on the market at the time. According to the OP's post, with the kingpin edition, you get luck of the draw for LN2 cooling only... which is not what I was lead to believe when they said the cards are binned. In the past, binned cards worked exceptionally well under air cooling and even better under water. The LN2 "enthusiast" group is like the 1% of the high end users group which is all ready a small group of PC users... It just seems silly the way this was intended compared to the way it was marketed.
post edited by RainStryke - 2015/07/05 21:11:46
Main PC | Secondary PC
Intel i9 10900K | Intel i7 9700KMSI MEG Z490 ACE | Gigabyte Aorus Z390 MasterASUS TUF RTX 3090 | NVIDIA RTX 2070 Super32GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal 4000MHz CL18 | 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 4266MHz CL17SuperFlower Platinum SE 1200w | Seasonic X-1250Samsung EVO 970 1TB and Crucial P5 1TB | Intel 760p 1TB and Crucial MX100 512GBCougar Vortex CF-V12HPB x9 | Cougar Vortex CF-V12SPB-RGB x5 3DMark Results:Time Spy|Port Royal
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:03:06
(permalink)
Heini2
Vlada011...They sacrifice about 10-15% in sharpness and picture is more blurry because better performance...
Vlada, I would like to thank you for pointing to this. I've seen only three people make this observation, me included, though I'm sure others have. OC'ing, mhz, fps, etc. are well enough but what's the point when one disregards quality for quantity? It reminds me of dogs that chase their tails.
Also: Thanks to ty_ger07 for being the voice of reason.
Because people are blind, I didn't meet person who didn't say for Radeon this card have better picture even before he start game. But with games start and problems... I even meet persons who say my head hurts me with NVIDIA cards. But obvious NVIDIA don't have nothing to say on that plan except to ask 1000$ for inferior picture. But I know that NVIDIA is aware of that because they jump as crazy when AMD start anything about sharp picture without compromise. Now they are good, you should see them before 6-7 years. But people obvious need to make on big picture and compare details, fire, human face on big distance where objects are example 0.5cm size. Much cleaner lines but like I say with gameplay start and problem because NVIDIA is much smoother than. The Kingpin cards are designed for subzero cooling for benchmark enthusiasts. They always have been. They are not designed for gamers to have the fastest gaming card. Never have been. Kingpin cards are designed to be received, have the stock cooler removed immediately, have a LN2 pot strapped to them, and be tortured and crashed over and over for hours until a world-record run is finally obtained. Kingpin cards will not run for a gamer -- in general -- any better than a normal card when air cooled. Never have. Most of the money EVGA puts into the Kingpin cards is spent on the voltage regulation section. If you can't use high voltage because you don't want to put a LN2 pot on it, there is no reason to buy a Kingpin card. I know I got into a big argument with an unhappy air-cooled Kingpin owner in the past... They simply did not want to believe that they made a poor (overpriced) purchasing decision when choosing an air-cooled card to game with. There just isn't anything very special about the GPU core on the Kingpin versus a regular card. They try to bin them a bit, but binning doesn't account for much. The extra money for the Kingpin cards is invested in the magic in the voltage regulation design and subzero controls.post edited by ty_ger07 - 3 hours ago OK because of that I will not buy them, I can reach same results in games and with other brands because sometimes they offer and higher clock, example ASUS Gold 980. If EVGA start to make custom cards only for overclockers they will fast to stop with that. I'm really glad because ASUS and other brands listen words of people as me when we tell them clearly... You must design cards with competitive clock because most market as highest fabric clock for gaming. They done that and they will be rewarded. Our community is 300 times bigger and people don't want to pay same for 100MHz or 50MHz slower cards. I told that as reason why I bought EVGA, and I would be bad person if pass against my words because they have no enough good chips and want to sell same number of Classified cards as Superclocked. It's much better if you can use cards for both ways... as Galaxy HOF and others, they sometimes reach records and that depend only from chips 90%... But they could be used and for every day as any reference card only much faster and more than 15 fps improvements in some games. If someone think that Galaxy HOF Extreme is bad for LN2 I would like to explain me because sometimes they are on first place in Hall of Fame, I say 5 months, they was more than half year first with GTX780Ti in single and multi Firestrike... That mean they are good for both things and gamers will not have problem to play games with them. You don't need to live in igloo on Antarctic or every day tanker to bring you 100l of LN2 for graphic card. That's always better if you can use for both things than only for one.
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/05 23:16:03
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:22:47
(permalink)
If EVGA think that's good to make one card with inferior clock than simple Strix and other for people who use LN2, and that's 0.1% of market. And not only 0.1% of market. That's even less, because 90% of them who use LN2 sometimes use that once in month or two months...And only few of people have sponsors for LN2... That's so small market... I think...I think pharmaceutical company don't want to make medications for so rear disease... Not someone to make one product clearly for them... When they need to use cards, once in 3 month...?? That mean they will use card 5-6 times... I have nothing against... If EVGA decide that's good for company, OK. I think and ASUS and Galaxy would support that, that's very good for them.
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/05 23:27:43
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:26:36
(permalink)
antandbetty
Ty_ger07 must therefor know more about the co-designer of the card and the engineer that helps kingpin come up with the design. Maybe he does......But I will take Kingpin & Tin's word over anyone in this forum. It boils down to the cards designer who made these statements and not myself. Make of it what you will. Any gpu should be able to clock higher on water then on air if addition voltage is applied & that is clearly not the case with the current cards. That being said water cooling has no effect on the kpe and should only be used under LN2.
My advise if you want to argue the statement is to head over to kingpin cooling as linked below and maybe have Vince go into further detail then he did with me as i am no engineer.
http://kingpincooling.com....php?t=3659&page=6
LOL! on air, my cards failed with the stock bios. here, Stock clocks, single card, on air. On water, this never happened, so yes, they can clock higher on water, as in anything over stock. Therefore, your statement is 100% true, they should clock higher on water.. I made it to 1570 on water, which is pretty damn good without needing to do anything with voltage after Vince released the new bios's. They scaled the same with his bios as they did with using the EVBot, which was nice to no longer be required to use the EVBot.
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:29:58
(permalink)
You see Scarlet will not lie, his card failed with stock BIOS. That's what I want to avoid and warn others who are not aware. That should be on wikipedia, graphic card with special purpose...but not special as good, I mean special... as people with special needs, handicapped persons... Because special card, and specially good graphic card is normal card only could be use for any purpose, LN2, water, dice, Air. That's very bad, very bad...
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/05 23:32:02
|
ty_ger07
Insert Custom Title Here
- Total Posts : 21174
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/04/10 23:48:15
- Location: traveler
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 270
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:30:30
(permalink)
RainStryke I thought about getting one of those Kingpin cards because of the way it's marketed with the upgraded HSF that can change colors and the upgraded PCB with 14+3 power phase power delivery. If you think EVGA makes it's abundantly clear that these are specifically LN2 cooled cards, you would be wrong. If they were LN2 class cards, they wouldn't even come with a HSF as they'd be a waste of the companies money since it would be a waste of materials for the intended user. They also don't even mention that they bin the GPU's to work better towards LN2 cooling, they actually don't mention anything about LN2 cooling at all in their article:
http://www.evga.com/articles/00904/EVGA-GeForce-GTX-980-KINGPIN-ACX-2/ Please compare the two cards in the following picture. What do you see?  What is the Kingpin edition card? It's a GTX 980 with an epower board fused from the factory. Essentially that is all it is. Do you need an epower board for air cooled or water cooled overclocking, gaming, and benchmarking? No. What you are paying extra for is all those extra components. All EVGA does is advertise the card's good qualities. EVGA doesn't limit its marketing to a small segment. If customers don't educate themselves about what is necessary to make the card work to its full potential and decide to buy it and use it in the configuration it comes in the box, well, they get a card which should work as designed but certainly for a steep price without likely much additional benefit.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2015/07/05 23:35:21
Attached Image(s)
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:34:32
(permalink)
This card have no inferior power design than cards above, and her clock will not be inferior, but again could be used as normal graphic card, not graphic card with special needs...19 phase and 24 pin connectors, or 3x8... but still gamers could use and fabric overclock or to OC more and play games as on reference clock, only results are better... 
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/05 23:38:06
|
SocioPC
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 421
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/06/03 19:12:05
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 2
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:39:18
(permalink)
Scarlet-Tech
Ty_ger07 is definitely one of the more trusted members I refer to on these forums. As I have stated too many time to care, the K|ngp|n is not meant or marketed for Casual gamers. Just because (causal) people are willing to waste... YES, WASTE... the money because they see higher numbers is entertaining at best. I wasted the money with the intention of going beyond the 0c ambient, but money is currently a limiting factor... I currently have the entire computer broke down as I redo all of the tubing, and I MAY wait to put it back together until next month, but I doubt I am that patient.
I don't see how someone buying a 980 ti Classified is 'wasting money' even if used on air.. it's only $20 more than EVGA's OC'd reference card that includes a backplate.
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:44:06
(permalink)
SocioPC
Scarlet-Tech
Ty_ger07 is definitely one of the more trusted members I refer to on these forums. As I have stated too many time to care, the K|ngp|n is not meant or marketed for Casual gamers. Just because (causal) people are willing to waste... YES, WASTE... the money because they see higher numbers is entertaining at best. I wasted the money with the intention of going beyond the 0c ambient, but money is currently a limiting factor... I currently have the entire computer broke down as I redo all of the tubing, and I MAY wait to put it back together until next month, but I doubt I am that patient.
I don't see how someone buying a 980 ti Classified is 'wasting money' even if used on air.. it's only $20 more than EVGA's OC'd reference card that includes a backplate.
Because card have 1190MHz speed, and Zotac 1250MHz, ASUS 1220, Galaxy maybe and 1300MHz... GTX980Ti is slower than TITAN X, 100MHz overclocked GTX980Ti is faster than TITAN X. Because of that. And because Classified cost more than all of them. Why is she so Classy than... Biggest problem is because EVGA used to people search for their cards and now behave as NVIDIA. They know that Classified card cost more, 50-60-70$ more than Superclocked models. And now they want to sell more Classified cards and best chips will separate for K|NGP|N Edition for overclockers, and we gamers will still pay EVGA Classy as something special. ... And nobody can't convince me, all of them Galaxy, Matrix, Classified, all of them have much stronger VRM and power design than chip can withstand and everything everything depend from him and only from him on all custom models, at least for any situation except LN2. That mean customer, gamer could freely only to choose with highest clock if he get good chip fine, if not nothing can help him.
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/05 23:49:58
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:45:33
(permalink)
SocioPC
I don't see how someone buying a 980 ti Classified is 'wasting money' even if used on air.. it's only $20 more than EVGA's OC'd reference card that includes a backplate.
you are the one that didn't read my for sale thread. There isn't a single 780ti anything for sale in my thread. When Selling anything, you could lose money. I got the two cards and the EVBot I have for a really good deal. I wanted the EVBot and decided to test the cards with it. I am selling the cards for slightly lower than the price I got them, and keeping the EVBot.. So I am not losing anything. I wanted one thing and the seller wouldn't part it out, so I bought them all and now I am selling them. *looks like your statement was removed when I quoted you, but I will leave this here for you* The classified is meant for extreme overclocking, and the 780ti SC SSC or even reference clocked card can potentially achieve the same levels with watercooling, so why not save the money and use a reference card that has a water block available?
post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2015/07/05 23:48:38
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/05 23:50:03
(permalink)
Vlada011
This card have no inferior power design than cards above, and her clock will not be inferior, but again could be used as normal graphic card, not graphic card with special needs...19 phase and 24 pin connectors, or 3x8...
but still gamers could use and fabric overclock or to OC more and play games as on reference clock, only results are better...
The only thing I like about this card is the power connectors on the end of the card instead of the side, and the white PCB. The phases are silly, but if it works for Galax, let them do it. I am interested to see how they work, of course.
|
Szeged
SSC Member
- Total Posts : 517
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/06/27 09:03:14
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 4
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 00:31:13
(permalink)
but guysssssssssss
more phases = higher fpssssssssssssss
5960x 4.8ghz @ 1.42v | tri SLI EVGA Titan X| Rampage V extreme | G.Skill 3000 c15 16gb | K|ngp|n Tek 9 FAT | K|ngp|n f1 extreme
|
FlankerWang
New Member
- Total Posts : 56
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/09/25 20:05:33
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 00:47:09
(permalink)
Vlada011
SocioPC
Scarlet-Tech
Ty_ger07 is definitely one of the more trusted members I refer to on these forums. As I have stated too many time to care, the K|ngp|n is not meant or marketed for Casual gamers. Just because (causal) people are willing to waste... YES, WASTE... the money because they see higher numbers is entertaining at best. I wasted the money with the intention of going beyond the 0c ambient, but money is currently a limiting factor... I currently have the entire computer broke down as I redo all of the tubing, and I MAY wait to put it back together until next month, but I doubt I am that patient.
I don't see how someone buying a 980 ti Classified is 'wasting money' even if used on air.. it's only $20 more than EVGA's OC'd reference card that includes a backplate.
Because card have 1190MHz speed, and Zotac 1250MHz, ASUS 1220, Galaxy maybe and 1300MHz...
GTX980Ti is slower than TITAN X, 100MHz overclocked GTX980Ti is faster than TITAN X. Because of that.
And because Classified cost more than all of them. Why is she so Classy than...
Biggest problem is because EVGA used to people search for their cards and now behave as NVIDIA.
They know that Classified card cost more, 50-60-70$ more than Superclocked models. And now they want to sell more Classified cards
and best chips will separate for K|NGP|N Edition for overclockers, and we gamers will still pay EVGA Classy as something special.
... And nobody can't convince me, all of them Galaxy, Matrix, Classified, all of them have much stronger VRM and power design than chip can withstand and everything everything depend from him and only from him on all custom models, at least for any situation except LN2.
That mean customer, gamer could freely only to choose with highest clock if he get good chip fine, if not nothing can help him.
HOF runs at 1190-1291 http://galaxstore.net/GALAX-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-HOF-6GB_p_82.htmlHOF LN2 runs at 1203-1304 http://galaxstore.net/GALAX-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-HOF-LN2-Edition-6GB_p_83.html
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 01:14:03
(permalink)
Szeged
but guysssssssssss
more phases = higher fpssssssssssssss
GGAAAAHHH!!!! I forgot! You're Right! FlankerWang
HOF runs at 1190-1291 http://galaxstore.net/GALAX-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-HOF-6GB_p_82.html
HOF LN2 runs at 1203-1304 http://galaxstore.net/GALAX-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-HOF-LN2-Edition-6GB_p_83.html
According to some people above, the LN2 cards shouldn't come with an air cooler.. yet.. the HOF is displayed with one as well as the LN2 version.. awwwkkkwwwardddd... "Built for EXTREME Overclockers" obviously doesn't spell out enough to those contesting that the Classified and K|ngp|n isn't advertised as meant for Extreme Overclocking.. Silly EVGA even wrote it on the ad and people still can't figure it out....  maybe EVGA misspelled Casual... Even Galax says, "The GTX 980 Ti HOF LN2 is in a class of its own as the only graphics card in existence designed explicitly for cryogenic overclocking." Air Cooler comes attached.. How silly of them to be required to do that when obviously if there is an Air Cooler, it must be for casual gaming. Can't spell out the obvious for those that refuse to read the obvious.
|
k|ngp|n
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 90
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/11/04 18:34:13
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 5
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 02:29:41
(permalink)
Ty_ger07 you are a very sensible person, I can see why guys trust you around here  I'll copy and past a response I had at KPC since my name is in the thread title  Seems like antandbetty is assuming that NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as the OP makes it sounds here lol. I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient. No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus. Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement. There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti  And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself: http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 03:16:27
(permalink)
k|ngp|n
...
Good to see you stopping by.
|
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 10257
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
- Location: Belgrade-Serbia
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 11
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 04:27:14
(permalink)
I don't like that white PCB, and of course cooler but I like because she could be used and for LN2 and water, air, games, etc... important that gamers will not have problem if card work on 70-80C on insane fabric speed. Galaxy is not crazy to cut legs to self and to offer card without cooler for every day use, people who force that will not pay them loss if they done that. Only they write cards is design for LN2 and everybody will now that nothing better is not possible for small number of people who will try that card on LN2. Who will pay them loss if they offer card without cooler and overclockers buy 50-100 cards and others say Ahhh she don't have cooler I will buy other model or I though to install HOF SLI but now I will buy Matrix. They write LN2 Edition to explain how well they build card not as statement she not work for games and crash with stock speed on air and water. Note... for LN2 because on that way customers will know that they don't need nothing stronger for LN2 or any kind of modification and as marketing because hardware for LN2 is most powerful. Same as server grade tantalum capacitors, ...they don't need hot noisy server environment, they work and on desktop PC. Enough to ask EKWB how much they sell pots and how much waterblocks and you will know instantly how much people could ask card without cooler. But people with water cooling loops are only smaller part of gaming community... Much bigger use air coolers.
post edited by Vlada011 - 2015/07/06 04:33:25
|
Pgcmoore
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 2037
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/03/27 09:29:41
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 14
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 04:30:26
(permalink)
hmmmmmmm, "There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti" Damn, I hate riddles! LOL 
"This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down"  My Affiliate Code is 05G-UGD-GZVU
|
hallowen
CLASSIFIED ULTRA Member
- Total Posts : 5644
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/06/18 15:38:00
- Location: In a Galaxy Far, Far Away...
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 14
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 04:37:26
(permalink)
k|ngp|n
Seems like antandbetty is assuming that NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as the OP makes it sounds here lol. I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient.
No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus.
Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement.
There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti
And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself:
http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html
Thank You Vince. We Definitely appreciate your explanation of these problems and are looking forward to what the New Kingpin has to offer.
ASUS: Rampage VI Extreme | i9-7940X | 2X RTX 2080 Ti Kingpin SLI | 32GB DDR4 3200MHz Memory - SAGER: NP9870-G | i7-6700K | GTX 980M 8GB | 64GB DDR4 | 950 PRO M.2 512GB | 17.3 QHD 120Hz Matte G-Sync | Prema bios - EVOC Premamod: P870TM1 | i9-9900K-LM | RTX 2080N 8GB | Modded Vapor Chamber | 32GB 3000MHz Ripjaws | 960 EVO M.2 1TB | 17.3 3K QHD 120Hz Matte G-Sync | Intel 8265 -
|
sahafiec
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1344
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2014/07/17 04:15:39
- Location: Turkey
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 7
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 04:42:56
(permalink)
well, ShockG said it all as KP mentioned. thanks for the hint to the thread.  for the busy ones: This is a great card. As good as the HOF LN2 or KPE even for air and water cooling.
With all GM2XX GPUs, the limit is cooling. It is not a linear relationship where adding and power phases, voltage etc help scaling. These will do nothing at all.
No magic BIOS will increase overclocks and two cards with same week GPU, perhaps even same wafer will perform and scale near identically. The limit for all TI's is around 1500MHz. That has everything to do with the GPU layout/design and the target node. For instance running VID1.26V to pass 1555MHz where 1.19V passes 1526MHz speaks directly to this. Want to clean out the signal, then you need lower temps. Not 50, 40 or 30'C but around 10 to 15'C max load. Then you will see the GPU go to 1600MHz to 1620MHz game stable.
Remember that from air cooling to LN2 is only 600MHz at most (at least at present) which is a vary narrow window. That last 200MHz needs you to go down from -80'C to -130'C for instance and hold it there even under load. That is not a linear relationship and the cap for these GPUs is around 2100MHz.
So be it a 6, 8 or 14 phase PWM. It makes no difference at all for water and air cooling.
All we can do is hope for a high bin GPU if you care about that sort of thing. Perhaps even a card with Samsung memory so you can comfortably go over the 2GHz mark.
i5 6600k | z170 m8g | bequiet pure rock | gtx1070 FTW | 2x8gb 2666mhz | 250gb m.2 & 2tb | 650W P2 | Enthoo Pro M Acrylic | pb258q
|
DirtySouthWookie
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 188
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2014/10/19 19:25:36
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 04:43:25
(permalink)
Are you guys counting boost clock when you get 1550? Or just the core clock?
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 05:16:37
(permalink)
DirtySouthWookie
Are you guys counting boost clock when you get 1550? Or just the core clock?
Total clock, once it is boosted by GPU boost 2.0. Obviously, the GPU 2.0 boost doesn't register in GPU-z tables, but it shows in the monitoring sensors.
|
SocioPC
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 421
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/06/03 19:12:05
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 2
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 05:26:50
(permalink)
I guess it's time to get the cascade back out..
|
Halo_003
Omnipotent Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 12859
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2009/03/20 18:18:10
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 51
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 10:38:27
(permalink)
Re: marketing, on my phone and can't multi quote...
Of course EVGA markets it as an extreme gaming card. It is, as is every other GTX 980 and above, think about market share of GTX 900 series, all of them are "extreme gaming cards" compared to the 99% of other cards.
EVGA isn't going to come out and say "hey don't buy this if you aren't running LN2.", because t would cost them a potential break even vs not even covering R&D costs. Marketing is all about state all of the best info and maybe bend the truth, not hey here's honest info that the card will suck for 99% of you.
i7 7700K - ASUS Maximus IX Apex - 16GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3466MHz C16 - 5700 XT 50th Anniversary
|
antandbetty
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 318
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2014/12/01 19:13:42
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 12:32:42
(permalink)
k|ngp|n
Ty_ger07 you are a very sensible person, I can see why guys trust you around here
I'll copy and past a response I had at KPC since my name is in the thread title
Seems like antandbetty is assuming that NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as the OP makes it sounds here lol. I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient.
No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus.
Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement.
There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti
And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself:
http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html
Thank you, & I am sorry if i made it sound like nvidia purposely blocked voltage scaling..but you never know with Nvidia. You confirmed my suspicions with you posts as NO ONE else was even touching this subject. It was very frustrating for all of us to throw huge amount of volts at Maxwell and not see 1 mhz of clock speed. Did not make any sense to many of us until your post at your forum clarified it. Either way there is an issue as you said.... and it was driving many of us nuts. Ant
post edited by antandbetty - 2015/07/06 13:31:16
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free" R.R.
|
the_Scarlet_one
formerly Scarlet-tech
- Total Posts : 24581
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
- Location: East Coast
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 79
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 13:45:26
(permalink)
Halo_003
Re: marketing, on my phone and can't multi quote...
Of course EVGA markets it as an extreme gaming card. It is, as is every other GTX 980 and above, think about market share of GTX 900 series, all of them are "extreme gaming cards" compared to the 99% of other cards.
EVGA isn't going to come out and say "hey don't buy this if you aren't running LN2.", because t would cost them a potential break even vs not even covering R&D costs. Marketing is all about state all of the best info and maybe bend the truth, not hey here's honest info that the card will suck for 99% of you.
Nowhere does it say "Built for the extreme gamer.." EVGA is going to sell to whomever will purchase. They market it for the "Extreme OVERCLOCKER" and sell any to every single person that has money burning a hole in their pocket.
|
donta1979
Primarch
- Total Posts : 15887
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2007/02/11 19:27:15
- Location: In the land of Florida Man!
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 72
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 13:59:19
(permalink)
ty_ger07
Blocking. Intentionally. LOL. Yeah right...
[sarcasm]I am sure NVIDIA built a hardware device to monitor temperature and cap frequency based on temperature and then provide a fake crash response if exceeded.[/sarcasm]
I am sure it is a hardware limitation based on design or manufacturing size; not a conspiracy. TiN is from Taiwan. I am sure something was lost in the translation.
Actually look at the Titan line ups, its always been about paying more for less, the logical processing cores have been standard on nvidia gpus since what the 7000-8000 series? All the way up to the 400 series, then poof logical processing cores are gone. Then a few generations later the Titan's came to be. Now the new Titans lack double precision for most that means nothing but those doing heavy calculations that actually means a lot. Even cpus have gone this direction with locked/unlocked multipliers X and K series. Yeah I dont think nvidia may had gone that far, but maybe due to charging more for less, there is in fact the firmware on the gpu, and in the drivers that will cause down clocking if certain temperatures exceed. Also just gamers that have money in their pockets to burn, evga, asus, gigabyte, xfx, nvidia, intel and amd knows they will spend top dollar for the most expensive card, the reason all you guys who purchased titans, they slap geforce on the side and you drool... and say shut up and take my money! Once you realize that hardware companies will make whatever sells, to the bigger audience, are not your friends, and will do everything in its power to get your money with each new shiny thing they release you will be better off. ASIC quality plays a big role in things, but sadly hand picked binned chips for now is a think of the past=/ Too much money and time spent to do this. Companies are about saving money for maximum profit.
post edited by donta1979 - 2015/07/06 14:06:49
Heatware
Retired from AAA Game Industry
Jeep Wranglers, English Bulldog Rescue
USAF, USANG, US ARMY Combat Veteran
My Build
Intel Core I9 13900K@6.1ghz, ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 ARGB, 32gb G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 7200mhz CL34 DDR5, ASUS Rog Strix Z790-E, ASUS Rog Strix OC 4090, ASUS ROG Wingwall Graphics Card Holder, Seagate limited Edition Cyberpunk 2077 m.2, 2x Samsung 980 m.2 1TB's, 980 & 990 Pro m.2 2TB's, ASUS ROG Hyperion GR701, ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Platinum II, Cablemod RT-Series Pro ModMesh Sleeved 12VHPWR Carbon, ASUS Rog Swift PG35VQ 35", Acer EI342CKR Pbmiippx 34", ROG Harpe Ace Aim Lab Edition mouse, Rog Claymore II keyboard, TCL home entertainment Sound Bar w/Wireless Sub, Steelseries Johnny Silverhand Headset Microsoft Cyberpunk 2077 Xbox controller
|
Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 49170
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/06/07 21:11:51
- Location: Texas, USA.
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 199
Re: STATEMENT BY KINGPIN THAT PROVES 900 SERIES DOES NOT SCALE WITH VOLTAGE NO MATTER BRAN
2015/07/06 15:05:01
(permalink)
k|ngp|n
Ty_ger07 you are a very sensible person, I can see why guys trust you around here
I'll copy and past a response I had at KPC since my name is in the thread title
Seems like antandbetty is assuming that NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as the OP makes it sounds here lol. I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient.
No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus.
Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement.
There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti
And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself:
http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html
|