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Hot!EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.)

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QueueCumber
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 12:37:07 (permalink)
I tried Kingpin's settings from the EVGA Twitch feed. I can't run them on my card. I assume that is because there is another bios with more headroom than the 520w? My GPU temp is below Kingpin's in the video as well.
 
I get up to +225 / +1200 (or 2220Mhz and 10950Mhz) or +210 / +1400 versus the 2220Mhz and 11352 Kingpin was able to access in the Twitch video. My scores are falling in the 14.6k to 14.8k range.
post edited by QueueCumber - 2020/12/04 13:03:25


#31
emmett
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 13:03:27 (permalink)
On the OC bios (NOT LN2) gpuz showed just under 440 watts total.
 
 
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/594622
 
 
 
 
 

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#32
DarkClownX1X
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 14:58:40 (permalink)
emmett
On the OC bios (NOT LN2) gpuz showed just under 440 watts total.
  
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/594622

 
Sigh cooled my office down played with multiple settings best I could do was 14,983.  Pumped ram up to over 1300 and didn't matter where I put GPU really.  Maybe I'm getting "Drivered" ;)  It isn't like I'm crashing it just seems to hit a wall somewhere.  Shoot my Average GPU and Memory is higher than yours but still ended up with a lower score go figure.  I did notice that gigabyte removed the F31 beta BIOSes from their site, maybe I'm getting "BIOSed".
 


CPU: Ryzen 5900X
MB:  Aorus Master x570
GPU: RTX 3090 Kingpin Hybrid (installed)
 
 
#33
Chamidorix
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 15:08:18 (permalink)
Yes, you absolutely need 1000W/unlocked XOC bios to hit those scores Vince touted. You must also overclock the core cache (MSVDD) and dram memory (FBVDD) voltages and thereby clocks so they can feed  NVVDD (the ALUs/cores) with data (bandwidth) fast enough to keep up(scale) with overclocking the core. MSVDD is very tricky to overclock because we do not have direct clock control, only voltage, so you have to test MSVDD voltage at each NVVDD frequency/temp index to basically learn the stock voltage/frequency/temp MSVDD curve and thereby know how to game the static voltage for optimal performance. 
 
This extensive and nebulous process is a large part of what separates the top dogs like Vince so far from the others, in addition to the extensive binning he has access to. 
post edited by Chamidorix - 2020/12/04 15:10:30
#34
DarkClownX1X
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 15:50:24 (permalink)
Chamidorix
Yes, you absolutely need 1000W/unlocked XOC bios to hit those scores Vince touted. You must also overclock the core cache (MSVDD) and dram memory (FBVDD) voltages and thereby clocks so they can feed  NVVDD (the ALUs/cores) with data (bandwidth) fast enough to keep up(scale) with overclocking the core. MSVDD is very tricky to overclock because we do not have direct clock control, only voltage, so you have to test MSVDD voltage at each NVVDD frequency/temp index to basically learn the stock voltage/frequency/temp MSVDD curve and thereby know how to game the static voltage for optimal performance. 
 
This extensive and nebulous process is a large part of what separates the top dogs like Vince so far from the others, in addition to the extensive binning he has access to. 



I do agree with what you are saying.  I spent time tweaking those values and have seen my card pull close to 600w.  I'm just at a loss as to why with all of the tweaking I've been doing I can't crest 15k while others without much change can.  I think I'll roll my bios base and if that doesn't help I'll move the card directly to the PCIe slot.


CPU: Ryzen 5900X
MB:  Aorus Master x570
GPU: RTX 3090 Kingpin Hybrid (installed)
 
 
#35
kraade
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 18:22:47 (permalink)
looks like values are all over the place


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DarkClownX1X
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 19:46:55 (permalink)
I did just notice that the latest NVidia drivers 457.51 are screwing with the cards idle power draw.  My card was pulling +123w at idle. I rolled back to 457.30 and the card is now pulling ~40w and the idle temp has dropped 5c


CPU: Ryzen 5900X
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GPU: RTX 3090 Kingpin Hybrid (installed)
 
 
#37
Cadillac94pimpin
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 20:00:06 (permalink)
DarkClownX1X
Chamidorix
Yes, you absolutely need 1000W/unlocked XOC bios to hit those scores Vince touted. You must also overclock the core cache (MSVDD) and dram memory (FBVDD) voltages and thereby clocks so they can feed  NVVDD (the ALUs/cores) with data (bandwidth) fast enough to keep up(scale) with overclocking the core. MSVDD is very tricky to overclock because we do not have direct clock control, only voltage, so you have to test MSVDD voltage at each NVVDD frequency/temp index to basically learn the stock voltage/frequency/temp MSVDD curve and thereby know how to game the static voltage for optimal performance. 
 
This extensive and nebulous process is a large part of what separates the top dogs like Vince so far from the others, in addition to the extensive binning he has access to. 



I do agree with what you are saying.  I spent time tweaking those values and have seen my card pull close to 600w.  I'm just at a loss as to why with all of the tweaking I've been doing I can't crest 15k while others without much change can.  I think I'll roll my bios base and if that doesn't help I'll move the card directly to the PCIe slot.




Jesus.. 600W with the LN2 BIOS? Does GPUZ show perf cap power limit? I may need a bigger power supply. I only have 850W. I specifically remember Vince saying something about one of the adjustments in the classified tool that was needed to sort of counteract being "drivered". I of course have no experience with that tool aside from what I read, I'm surprised EVGA has just left everyone to their own devices. Did you shut it down for a while between runs? 

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#38
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 20:01:31 (permalink)
DarkClownX1X
I did just notice that the latest NVidia drivers 457.51 are screwing with the cards idle power draw.  My card was pulling +123w at idle. I rolled back to 457.30 and the card is now pulling ~40w and the idle temp has dropped 5c




Are you using the standalone version of PR? I also saw that the older version is not as bloated and can yield better scores.  

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#39
dmisiur
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/04 23:25:11 (permalink)
Great build there!
#40
ffrgtm
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 03:27:36 (permalink)
I can corroborate darkclown's report that the latest Nvidia driver is drawing 125W at idle. It's the same TBP draw I was seeing on previous driver if Brave was using the card for hardware acceleration. 
#41
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 04:34:04 (permalink)
Those you might want a good starting point  just watch first 2 hour of stream. Vince gave all the valuable infor for voltages.
 
I am a bit disappointed in binning process tho. Should at least hit 2200 mhz guarentee in every KP card. Gz to all lucky owners of Kp. As always we EU is gg

3080 FTW3  Ultra 2012-Chinese First Batch.| 2300-2250 Air Hold  World record  Ambient 7C >https://www.3dmark.com/pr/628547
#42
QueueCumber
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 06:51:02 (permalink)
DarkClownX1X
Chamidorix
Yes, you absolutely need 1000W/unlocked XOC bios to hit those scores Vince touted. You must also overclock the core cache (MSVDD) and dram memory (FBVDD) voltages and thereby clocks so they can feed  NVVDD (the ALUs/cores) with data (bandwidth) fast enough to keep up(scale) with overclocking the core. MSVDD is very tricky to overclock because we do not have direct clock control, only voltage, so you have to test MSVDD voltage at each NVVDD frequency/temp index to basically learn the stock voltage/frequency/temp MSVDD curve and thereby know how to game the static voltage for optimal performance. 
 
This extensive and nebulous process is a large part of what separates the top dogs like Vince so far from the others, in addition to the extensive binning he has access to. 



I do agree with what you are saying.  I spent time tweaking those values and have seen my card pull close to 600w.  I'm just at a loss as to why with all of the tweaking I've been doing I can't crest 15k while others without much change can.  I think I'll roll my bios base and if that doesn't help I'll move the card directly to the PCIe slot.


Same. Any progress on figuring out if it is just binning vs something else weird?


#43
QueueCumber
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 06:57:41 (permalink)
ffrgtm
I can corroborate darkclown's report that the latest Nvidia driver is drawing 125W at idle. It's the same TBP draw I was seeing on previous driver if Brave was using the card for hardware acceleration. 


Remove the OC tool (precision, afterburner, etc.) and then use DDU to uninstall the Nvidia driver. Reinstall the Nvidia driver and then the OC tool.

If it is the boost breaking like mine has been after installing the new Nvidia driver, then that will fix it. I was finding the new driver was breaking boost and the OC tool and giving me purely stock scores. But this will look like a score on the high 13k or low 14k depending on your bin I guess. Sadly, it didn't fix me being able to get past my 14.8k score, but it fixed the OC tool not working correctly and turned boost back on.


#44
QueueCumber
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 07:20:26 (permalink)
streamroller
Those you might want a good starting point  just watch first 2 hour of stream. Vince gave all the valuable infor for voltages.
 
I am a bit disappointed in binning process tho. Should at least hit 2200 mhz guarentee in every KP card. Gz to all lucky owners of Kp. As always we EU is gg


Me too. People can't be disappointed with people flipping these cards on eBay when there appears to be no binning and lots of issues with cards across the board. I'm holding on to mine for now to see how things pan out and what engineers think about the PCB. I have no qualms with flipping the KP on ebay to try to take back losses on the ftw3 ultra I cannot return to newegg which is currently on ebay (and funny enough OCs about the same as my KP). I held onto that ftw3 ultra for too long hoping there would be a xoc fix or some kind of resolution, and wasted my opportunity to return it. Sure, you can be mad at people for flipping them unopemed right off the bat, but if they are reading these threads, they are doing the smart thing. Why pay 2.25k for a card that is not significantly faster than any other 3x 8-pin card?

I will give evga customer service credit, as they did allow me to return the ftw3 ultra I bought in their notify queue based on the above info (and the weird power draw issues). As always, best CS around in that regard...
post edited by QueueCumber - 2020/12/05 07:27:11


#45
ffrgtm
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 08:07:12 (permalink)
QueueCumber
Remove the OC tool (precision, afterburner, etc.) and then use DDU to uninstall the Nvidia driver. Reinstall the Nvidia driver and then the OC tool.

If it is the boost breaking like mine has been after installing the new Nvidia driver, then that will fix it. I was finding the new driver was breaking boost and the OC tool and giving me purely stock scores. But this will look like a score on the high 13k or low 14k depending on your bin I guess. Sadly, it didn't fix me being able to get past my 14.8k score, but it fixed the OC tool not working correctly and turned boost back on.

I did give this a fair shot (I even ran DDU in safe mode just for the hell of it), but I was still facing 115W at idle afterwards with 457.51
 
Rolled back to 457.30 and my idle is back to roughly 35W
#46
nova496
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 08:11:01 (permalink)
DarkClownX1X
Wanted a separate thread for this.  If other KP owners want to post what settings they are using (Classified.exe and PX1) this would be a good place to do it. My KP card showed up today and I was able to get it crammed into my O11 XL that already had 2 PE rads and distribution plate in the front. 
 
Best Port Royal Score: 14,976. Seeing that Jay had a 15,585, I was really hoping to hit 15k but couldn't do it. 
Best RAM OC: +1100. Any more than that and perf would go down or PR crash
Best GPU OC: +175 (I actually passed 180 but results were worse).  I'm thinking with the right temp and classified settings higher would be doable.
Bios switch: LN2
Fans: 100% (case covers off to pull cool air).  No other special fan placement just my case fan setup. I couldn't fit a fan behind the card.
Classified: see pic.
Watts: ~540 pulled on best run.
 



People must be deaf or something. Vince said specifically he hand picked those cards for Jay and Steve, in the live stream so its not a shocker they reached scores that someone paying 2k for the card will never reach. as we get the left overs Vince deems not good overclockers 
#47
arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 08:11:14 (permalink)
QueueCumber

Me too. People can't be disappointed with people flipping these cards on eBay when there appears to be no binning and lots of issues with cards across the board. I'm holding on to mine for now to see how things pan out and what engineers think about the PCB. I have no qualms with flipping the KP on ebay to try to take back losses on the ftw3 ultra I cannot return to newegg which is currently on ebay (and funny enough OCs about the same as my KP). I held onto that ftw3 ultra for too long hoping there would be a xoc fix or some kind of resolution, and wasted my opportunity to return it. Sure, you can be mad at people for flipping them unopemed right off the bat, but if they are reading these threads, they are doing the smart thing. Why pay 2.25k for a card that is not significantly faster than any other 3x 8-pin card?

I will give evga customer service credit, as they did allow me to return the ftw3 ultra I bought in their notify queue based on the above info (and the weird power draw issues). As always, best CS around in that regard...



Can't say I blame them. My 3090 FTW3 (and the refurbished RMA) has the power draw problem, but even on air I was able to get over 14.8K in port royal with the XC3 VBIOS that allows the FTW3s to actually open up and not be power limited. The first one that was even worse for being power limited (and PCIE slot power draw was over 82W average) and only scored 14.5K on the XC3 VBIOS though.

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#48
wwxww
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 11:51:13 (permalink)
DarkClownX1X
Wanted a separate thread for this.  If other KP owners want to post what settings they are using (Classified.exe and PX1) this would be a good place to do it. My KP card showed up today and I was able to get it crammed into my O11 XL that already had 2 PE rads and distribution plate in the front. 
 
Best Port Royal Score: 14,976. Seeing that Jay had a 15,585, I was really hoping to hit 15k but couldn't do it. 
Best RAM OC: +1100. Any more than that and perf would go down or PR crash
Best GPU OC: +175 (I actually passed 180 but results were worse).  I'm thinking with the right temp and classified settings higher would be doable.
Bios switch: LN2
Fans: 100% (case covers off to pull cool air).  No other special fan placement just my case fan setup. I couldn't fit a fan behind the card.
Classified: see pic.
Watts: ~540 pulled on best run.
 
Question 1: Is there any way to manually control the LCD.  Never mind found it under the PX1 tool just need to arrow over on the bottom window.
Question 2: What are the best Classified settings to use or knobs to focus on?
Question 3: Could my riser cable be impacting my scores? (Linkup Gen4 cable 15cm).
Question 4: Is my EVGA 1000w PS enough, for non LN2 overclocking?
 
Overall happy with the card so far.  Being a premium card, I feel like the radiator and pump could be better.  Just a few seconds under load temps would climb quickly above 40c (with 19c ambient).  In comparison my custom cooled OC'ed 2080ti would never go above low 30s.  I would mount the card direct to the PCIe slot but I have a south bridge water block in the way and the card is just to thick to fit (need a HC KP card... cough JacobF!).  At least the card is working with the riser cable so that is good.  I'm also fighting the gigabyte beta bios so I could be losing some points to that.  Fans are pretty loud at 100% way louder than my P12s at 100% but they seem to move air pretty good.  When fans are set to the default auto the card seems pretty warm at idle ram ~50c and GPU ~40c.  I ended up setting a custom curve in PX1.  I might pull the south bridge water block and mount the card direct to the PCIe slot but that is a lot of work ;).  Hopefully I can get on the HC KP list and then pawn this card to a friend (if not wait for Optimus block).  The hoses could stand to be just a little longer they were just barely long enough to work for me.  Getting the card in and radiator stuffed through the side was a challenge.  I was wishing I had 3 arms.  Hmm, I wonder if there is an alien out there with 3 arms wishing they had 2 ;)  At any rate may the silicon lottery be with you.
 
System:
CPU: 5900X
MB: Gigabyte Aorus Master x570. F31j Beta Bios that is a little flakey.
RAM: 4x8 G.Skill F4-4266C19D-16GTZR (I have better ram coming)
 
 
side where I was able to fit the KP AIO rad.  The upside to a thin rad is that I was able to get it to fit under the side cover.

Not idea setup but I didn't want to omit a rad.  I'm pulling air in from the bottom and back and out the top and side.
Classified Settings:

Total power draw seems to be tied to NVDD and MSVDD.  I've never used Classified before so I wasn't sure which knobs to focus on. What should I be setting my * Loadline values to?  Not sure if I should be mucking with * Freq. either.
 



Try using loadline at 3 or 2.
post edited by wwxww - 2020/12/05 12:27:00
#49
Delirious
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 11:54:41 (permalink)
Post approved

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#50
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/05 12:52:51 (permalink)
Who ever gets their KP on ln2, let me know how they are performing. I didn't get the notify for the first batch. I still can't wait to get one on ln2.
#51
mylittlepwny2
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/13 18:40:45 (permalink)
@queuecumber Hey what kinda of clockspeeds are you seeing at regular ambient temps? U said u start at 2220 MHz and then drop from there I presume. Where does your card plateau at and what temps.are you running?
post edited by mylittlepwny2 - 2020/12/13 18:43:22
#52
menko2
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/30 19:07:47 (permalink)
I just got my 3090 kingpin and there is no manual at all. I read a lot of things here in the forum to get idea of how the overclock is going for this cards. Mine does 14273 in port royal just installing it in the OC bios and no OC program or fans speed change. I'll do some testing.

The temps with the OC bios are very cool so the LN2 bios should work well for the card for bench and gaming. I'm replacing the stocks fans as well with the noctuas.

Are we allowed to use the LN2 bios without voiding the warranty?
#53
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/30 19:23:18 (permalink)
menko2
Are we allowed to use the LN2 bios without voiding the warranty?

Yep.

Want to save 5 to 10% on your next EVGA purchase? Just click on the associates banner to save, or enter the associates code at checkout on your next purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
 

 
#54
menko2
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/30 23:48:01 (permalink)
Sajin
menko2
Are we allowed to use the LN2 bios without voiding the warranty?

Yep.


Thank you Sajin.

I try to switch to LN2 bios with the computer on and also off. I get worst results and power draw is less that Overclock Bios.

The oled display shows I'm switching to the LN2 bios.

Is there anything else I should do?
#55
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/31 00:03:17 (permalink)
If your power slider is able to go to 120% then you're on the LN2 vbios. Using the LN2 vbios doesn't make the card use more power. You gotta overclock to hit the 520w limit.

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#56
menko2
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/31 00:38:30 (permalink)
Sajin
If your power slider is able to go to 120% then you're on the LN2 vbios. Using the LN2 vbios doesn't make the card use more power. You gotta overclock to hit the 520w limit.


I have done it and still the same problem.

I put the power slider to the max 121% and overclock memory and gpu.

In gpu-z I can see there is power limit for getting higher frequency and the max number of power draw is 426w while benching or gaming.

Something else I'm missing for not getting the 520w?
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bwanaaa
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/31 07:07:24 (permalink)
I’ve noticed that the frequency is higher for temps <50. I thought gpus were good till 80 degrees? I wonder why the bios down locks so aggressively for temps that should be safe.

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#58
menko2
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/31 07:25:47 (permalink)
bwanaaa
I’ve noticed that the frequency is higher for temps <50. I thought gpus were good till 80 degrees? I wonder why the bios down locks so aggressively for temps that should be safe.


That means that my fans should be almost at max all the time to get temps less than 50°C right?

But I wonder in gpu-z says I'm power limited when I'm into 520w bios and what is consuming is 463W at max.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 K|NGP|N - Owners thread (bench marks, questions, etc.) 2020/12/31 07:35:25 (permalink)
bwanaaa
I’ve noticed that the frequency is higher for temps <50. I thought gpus were good till 80 degrees? I wonder why the bios down locks so aggressively for temps that should be safe.


The frequency bins (15MHz each) drop down a bin at certain C intervals - starting at 43 or 45C with the 30 series. It's normal, and has been part of GPU Boost since it's very first use (600 series?) It's a bonus based on temperature, power limits, voltage limits, all combined in a mystical formula to give you extra performance over the base clocks.
 
The cards will start protecting themselves with true thermal throttling somewhere around 81 to 91C (depending on what you set it for in AB/PX1), where your card will throttle down below even the base 3090 clock rate (1395 IIRC) to save itself.
post edited by arestavo - 2020/12/31 07:40:01

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