Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:14:23
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Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:20:03
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Turbo-12R
Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
I never alluded to that. I used a more apt car analogy. MPH? Nay, ticking time bomb due to it operating out of universally accepted standards.
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MethBot
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:36:40
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Does anybody have a link to the dude who is keeping track of the times SKUs and notification sent? I'm scrolling and I can't seem to find it.
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:51:02
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arestavo
Turbo-12R
Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
I never alluded to that. I used a more apt car analogy.
MPH? Nay, ticking time bomb due to it operating out of universally accepted standards.
Odd. The set core clock parameters for a 3090 FTW3 are 1800, but nobody seems to have an issue pushing them past "spec". Why would a few watts on PCIe be any different... just saying.
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JaxMacFL
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:53:18
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:54:23
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Turbo-12R
arestavo
Turbo-12R
Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
I never alluded to that. I used a more apt car analogy.
MPH? Nay, ticking time bomb due to it operating out of universally accepted standards.
Odd. The set core clock parameters for a 3090 FTW3 are 1800, but nobody seems to have an issue pushing them past "spec". Why would a few watts on PCIe be any different... just saying.
Because it's above max spec that has to be adhered to in order to slap PCIE anywhere on the box/website/marketing materials (for good reason - it can cause damage (not to all boards, but not all boards are over engineered)), not a bonus extra few MHz since 1800MHz is a minimum specification.
post edited by arestavo - 2021/02/27 19:58:07
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:57:59
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arestavo
Turbo-12R
arestavo
Turbo-12R
Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
I never alluded to that. I used a more apt car analogy.
MPH? Nay, ticking time bomb due to it operating out of universally accepted standards.
Odd. The set core clock parameters for a 3090 FTW3 are 1800, but nobody seems to have an issue pushing them past "spec". Why would a few watts on PCIe be any different... just saying.
Because it's above max spec that has to be adhered to in order to slap PCIE anywhere on the box/website/marketing materials, not a bonus extra few MHz that isn't even a max specification.
So what is max spec? Also EVGA has stated the wattage is within safe limits. Are you an engineer that would dispute this? I am certainly not, but I do put more faith in those who deal/manufacturer products versus those who are internet jockeys.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 19:58:54
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Turbo-12R
arestavo
Turbo-12R
arestavo
Turbo-12R
Sorry bud, but that does not answer the question asked. The question was "why are there not that many posts of cards catching on fire" like you eluded was happening.
I never alluded to that. I used a more apt car analogy.
MPH? Nay, ticking time bomb due to it operating out of universally accepted standards.
Odd. The set core clock parameters for a 3090 FTW3 are 1800, but nobody seems to have an issue pushing them past "spec". Why would a few watts on PCIe be any different... just saying.
Because it's above max spec that has to be adhered to in order to slap PCIE anywhere on the box/website/marketing materials, not a bonus extra few MHz that isn't even a max specification.
So what is max spec? Also EVGA has stated the wattage is within safe limits. Are you an engineer that would dispute this? I am certainly not, but I do put more faith in those who deal/manufacturer products versus those who are internet jockeys.
It's all here: https://pcisig.com/specifications/ I fix old radios for the government. Not an engineer, just someone that has to deal with what they give me.
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 20:05:32
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I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. Voltages and Watts have been pushed past limits on computers for overclocking and what not for years. This has been a convenient scapegoat in my opinion for this particular instance of irregularities.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 20:06:31
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Turbo-12R
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. Voltages and Watts have been pushed past limits on computers for overclocking and what not for years. This has been a convenient scapegoat in my opinion for this particular instance of irregularities.
You're completely entitled to your own opinion. I'll stick with the universal specifications of PCIE and my own results of decreasing the PCIE slot power draw from >75W to 66W or lower.
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lobstar
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/27 20:39:02
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Turbo-12R
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. Voltages and Watts have been pushed past limits on computers for overclocking and what not for years. This has been a convenient scapegoat in my opinion for this particular instance of irregularities.
I've said it so many times in this thread: Will your motherboard manufacturer cover you under warranty for operating a device beyond the motherboard's specification? Will you get full replacement value from your home owners insurance if there is a small fire and you have a room affected by smoke damage? More importantly, will EVGA reimburse you for those losses? I'd encourage you to see past instances of devices on drawing too much through the PCIe connector melting 24-pin connectors and causing fires. Actual fires. Not just letting the smoke out. You guys trust these companies an awful lot more than I do. Edit: Does this look normal to you?! https://imgur.com/Sq05ane
post edited by lobstar - 2021/02/27 20:51:15
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 05:37:00
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I guess in the long run it will be interesting to see why one card exhibits this behavior while the next one does not, since seemingly they all have the same components.
I like that display you did. What program did you use to capture that information?
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lobstar
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 08:24:41
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That is the control application for the Elgato Streamdeck 15 key with the hwinfo64 plugin. Here is the whole layout. It's as easy as drag and drop then select a sensor from the usual hwinfo64 list. I could also set this up as a folder but I don't really have much other use for it than a display like this.
Attached Image(s)
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TheBrandonAF
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 08:34:44
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lobstar
That is the control application for the Elgato Streamdeck 15 key with the hwinfo64 plugin. Here is the whole layout. It's as easy as drag and drop then select a sensor from the usual hwinfo64 list. I could also set this up as a folder but I don't really have much other use for it than a display like this.
What type of CPU hit do you take with this running? Very neat. 
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lobstar
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 10:07:47
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I run a lot of background apps. I honestly don't even worry about it with the 3950x. PerfMon says 0.1% on the processor for that program. Also, to your original question as to why we don't see more exceptional things happening like fires and whatnot: I would speculate a wider range of issues isn't as noticeable since the availability is so low on these products. It could also be that the sins of the past are being engineered out or, since power requirements on all hardware is going up, so have the safe-but-out-of-spec levels of operation. Things like thicker wire insulation and wider power delivery traces in the boards themselves which facilitate higher but still out of spec power without catastrophic failure. nVidia and AMD have both been reporting high levels of failures with the latest gen hardware. If tolerances are maintained (say +/-5%) and you increase the delivered power you get a wider 'acceptable' variance.
post edited by lobstar - 2021/02/28 10:21:25
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Larac
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 11:04:02
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Is it worth it?
Honestly curious.
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lobstar
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 11:22:17
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Larac
Is it worth it?
Not sure if you are asking about the XOC bios or the Streamdeck so I'll answer both from my perspective of having two of the power limited cards. The stream deck is super nice for monitoring things and having macros accessible at a single touch. I can execute batch files, monitor the weather, or sensors as I have it configured now. I got it off woot.com for like $60 so it was worth it to me at that price. As to the XOC bios on power limited cards: no. I get better performance on the non-oc bios and no artifacting or random black screens/crashes. Both of my cards have been super power limited. Once the PCIe power hits 81w for 3 or so seconds the card hits a hard power limit until it goes back to 2D mode (or something, I'm not sure on the last part entirely but it's the only explanation I can think of for it's behavior).
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Zanza741
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 13:40:18
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Hi, I have had a 3090 FTW3 ULTRA for a few weeks. With BIOS version 94.02.26.48.15 / 94.02.26.48.16 these are the newest versions. And how about Resizable BAR Support. greetings
post edited by Zanza741 - 2021/02/28 13:44:57
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bavor
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/02/28 13:55:28
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Turbo-12R
So then why are there so many arguments for not being able to hit 500w versus people claiming to catch on fire....
Do you not know what analogy means?
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 05:43:46
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bavor
Turbo-12R
So then why are there so many arguments for not being able to hit 500w versus people claiming to catch on fire....
Do you not know what analogy means?
I'm pretty sure I understood his argument as being that because of cards topping out over the PCIe specification that there is an abundance of them catching on fire, which is simply not true. Perhaps you should have actually quoted the portion where I did use an analogy if you needed an example of how to use one.
post edited by Turbo-12R - 2021/03/01 06:11:20
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 09:02:42
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Turbo-12R
bavor
Turbo-12R
So then why are there so many arguments for not being able to hit 500w versus people claiming to catch on fire....
Do you not know what analogy means?
I'm pretty sure I understood his argument as being that because of cards topping out over the PCIe specification that there is an abundance of them catching on fire, which is simply not true.
Perhaps you should have actually quoted the portion where I did use an analogy if you needed an example of how to use one.
Poat 4533, but you'll likely not read it...again.
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 10:42:15
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I read it. And we are back to... It's awkwardly cute the two of you tag-teaming me in an online forum. 
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 12:24:22
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Ok, just so you can make this clear for me…
I misunderstood you saying that because of the cards not being within PCIe specification they are catching on fire (or ticking time bombs as you have now rephrased), but you are saying that’s not what you said/meant. So, please clarify as I am confused to your concern with the card drawing a few watts over listed limits. Are you now saying that they are not catching on fire and there is not a concern? Please clarify your thoughts, and list why you are concerned with the PCIe slot producing a few more watts? The overwhelming numbers would indicate they are “not” catching on fire.
It’s kind of funny actually. A friend I have actually said to me when I told him I bought an EVGA 3080 and 3090, “oh man! I hear those catch on fire!” (and that was in the first couple weeks of their release!) I simply laughed at him and said “yeah, ok”. Of course months later, both of my “ticking time bombs” are still ticking.
Here’s another “analogy” for you. I’m a pretty avid ammunition re-loader. A Colt .45 Long cartridge has a much greater volume over the .45 acp, but yet energy from the. 45 acp is greater due to it being loaded for modern day handguns (tougher metals) vs. the age old Colt .45 Longs that are still in existence. However, as a re-loader, I can push way past those published limits (rivaling .44 mag loads) on the Colt .45 Long cartridges' when using a modern day revolver. So now lets segue into my analogy with motherboards. I just wonder with the more modern motherboards if this wattage limit is still as big of a factor than say the earlier generation PCIe motherboards? In asking this question, I also wonder who would be silly enough to want to use their top of the line card with a sub-par older motherboard? I’m sure there are some out there though.
It’s just some food for thought, and I’m not saying those are correct thoughts…but they might be ones worthy of looking into. My guess is these newer boards can handle this small increase in wattage with no issues. Does that make the issue ok…maybe not, I really don't know for certain but I'll stick with the odds of it not happening.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 12:54:59
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Turbo-12R
Ok, just so you can make this clear for me…
I misunderstood you saying that because of the cards not being within PCIe specification they are catching on fire (or ticking time bombs as you have now rephrased), but you are saying that’s not what you said/meant. So, please clarify as I am confused to your concern with the card drawing a few watts over listed limits. Are you now saying that they are not catching on fire and there is not a concern? Please clarify your thoughts, and list why you are concerned with the PCIe slot producing a few more watts? The overwhelming numbers would indicate they are “not” catching on fire.
It’s kind of funny actually. A friend I have actually said to me when I told him I bought an EVGA 3080 and 3090, “oh man! I hear those catch on fire!” (and that was in the first couple weeks of their release!) I simply laughed at him and said “yeah, ok”. Of course months later, both of my “ticking time bombs” are still ticking.
Here’s another “analogy” for you. I’m a pretty avid ammunition re-loader. A Colt .45 Long cartridge has a much greater volume over the .45 acp, but yet energy from the. 45 acp is greater due to it being loaded for modern day handguns (tougher metals) vs. the age old Colt .45 Longs that are still in existence. However, as a re-loader, I can push way past those published limits (rivaling .44 mag loads) on the Colt .45 Long cartridges' when using a modern day revolver. So now lets segue into my analogy with motherboards. I just wonder with the more modern motherboards if this wattage limit is still as big of a factor than say the earlier generation PCIe motherboards? In asking this question, I also wonder who would be silly enough to want to use their top of the line card with a sub-par older motherboard? I’m sure there are some out there though.
It’s just some food for thought, and I’m not saying those are correct thoughts…but they might be ones worthy of looking into. My guess is these newer boards can handle this small increase in wattage with no issues. Does that make the issue ok…maybe not, I really don't know for certain but I'll stick with the odds of it not happening.
No. Post 4533 doesn't say that. But allow me to spell it out: In order for complicated machines and electronics to function and maintain a certain level of safety, there are sets of rules that are used to ensure compatibility - from the mixture of synthetic oil, to the heat tolerance of belts and gaskets, to the size of the thread and post diameter/length of the bolts. Deviating from these tolerances can be a huge issue. Just like not being inside of the 75W PCIE slot power draw specification that all other manufacturers rely on a GPU manufacturer to follow can become an issue. Your card might be out of spec and yet maybe your motherboard was designed to handle it - congratulations, not everyone's motherboard was designed for it as the specification is 75W max for the PCIE slot. It's not 80W. It sure as heck isn't 90W either.
post edited by arestavo - 2021/03/01 13:09:18
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 14:21:43
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Well, I digress. I'll leave it up to the pros like yourself to hash this out. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my purchase while you and some others get worked up into a tizz.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 14:28:29
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Turbo-12R
Well, I digress. I'll leave it up to the pros like yourself to hash this out. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my purchase while you and some others get worked up into a tizz.
I think that's a bit of projection, since my card is working quite well with the XC3 VBIOS - full explanation and procedure in post 3215 here: https://forums.evga.com/E...ETA-m3124192-p108.aspx
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 14:55:51
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arestavo
I think that's a bit of projection, since my card is working quite well with the XC3 VBIOS - full explanation and procedure in post 3215 here: https://forums.evga.com/E...ETA-m3124192-p108.aspx
Nice job!  I've seen your post before. I'm sure several people have benefited from the band aid. I'm patient enough to wait for an "official" fix as far as being able to crank it up to be able to compete with the 3DMark Jones'. For now though I am happy losing out on that 5%.
Thermaltake Level 20HT AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 Core Thermaltake Pacific MX1 Plus Water Block Gigabyte Aorus Master X570 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series DDR4 3600 2x Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe 1x Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB NVMe TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta MAX RGB SSD 1TB EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 ULTRA w/EKWB Dual Thermaltake PR22-D5 Pumps Dual Thermaltake Pacific CL360 64mm Rads EVGA SuperNOVA 1200 P2, 80+ PLATINUM 1200W MSI OPTIX MPG341CQR
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marcus_andrews
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/01 22:06:01
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I haven't checked in on this thread for a while - what's the current status? Was the OC Bios for the 3090 Ultra fixed? Or should we stick with the normal?
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950x CPU Cooler: Optimus Foundation CPU Block Mobo: Gigabyte x570 Aorus Xtreme GPU: EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra Gaming GPU Cooler: Optimus Absolute FTW3 GPU Block RAM: 64 GB (4x16) G.Skill Trident Z Neo, 3600 MHz CL16 SSDs: 1x 2TB Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus NVMe 4.0 Gen4 PCIe M.2, 2x 2TB Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 Gen4 PCIe M.2, 2x 4TB Samsung 860 EVO PSU: Seasonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000W Radiators: 3x Hardware Labs Black Ice Nemesis 360GTS Fans: 10x Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM fans + 10x Phanteks Halos Lux Digital LED 120mm Fan Frames Reservoir + Pump: Heatkiller Tube 200 D5 + Aquacomputer D5 Next RGB Pump Coolant + Fittings + Tubing: Koolance 705 Clear coolant, Barrows fittings, EK ZMT tubing Case: Lian-Li O11 Dynamic XL Monitor: LG 27GL850-B
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Lord Winchester
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/02 05:25:47
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Turbo-12R
Ok, just so you can make this clear for me…
I misunderstood you saying that because of the cards not being within PCIe specification they are catching on fire (or ticking time bombs as you have now rephrased), but you are saying that’s not what you said/meant. So, please clarify as I am confused to your concern with the card drawing a few watts over listed limits. Are you now saying that they are not catching on fire and there is not a concern? Please clarify your thoughts, and list why you are concerned with the PCIe slot producing a few more watts? The overwhelming numbers would indicate they are “not” catching on fire.
It’s kind of funny actually. A friend I have actually said to me when I told him I bought an EVGA 3080 and 3090, “oh man! I hear those catch on fire!” (and that was in the first couple weeks of their release!) I simply laughed at him and said “yeah, ok”. Of course months later, both of my “ticking time bombs” are still ticking.
Here’s another “analogy” for you. I’m a pretty avid ammunition re-loader. A Colt .45 Long cartridge has a much greater volume over the .45 acp, but yet energy from the. 45 acp is greater due to it being loaded for modern day handguns (tougher metals) vs. the age old Colt .45 Longs that are still in existence. However, as a re-loader, I can push way past those published limits (rivaling .44 mag loads) on the Colt .45 Long cartridges' when using a modern day revolver. So now lets segue into my analogy with motherboards. I just wonder with the more modern motherboards if this wattage limit is still as big of a factor than say the earlier generation PCIe motherboards? In asking this question, I also wonder who would be silly enough to want to use their top of the line card with a sub-par older motherboard? I’m sure there are some out there though.
It’s just some food for thought, and I’m not saying those are correct thoughts…but they might be ones worthy of looking into. My guess is these newer boards can handle this small increase in wattage with no issues. Does that make the issue ok…maybe not, I really don't know for certain but I'll stick with the odds of it not happening.
I jump on the Wagon to tell you that I run an old i7 5960x on an Asus x99 Deluxe Board, that doesn't have additional pcie power. But changing from this cpu (runs 4.4 Ghz all day, 4.6 is possible and stable, but with quite high voltage) to something more modern doesn't give me a high enough performance boost to justify an extra 1300$ bill on my system. So most likely I will skip Ryzen 9 or whatever Intel will throw out in the next year. That means, I am one of the guys, that don't like to see "over spec Draw" on the PCI slot. I already know you are telling me, that the x99 deluxe is designed for triple sli. But that doesn't mean, the slot itself is designed for more than 75w, it only means, the board is designed for a total of 225w spread over ALL pcie Slots. Now that I explained my concerns, I hope you understand my point of view
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Turbo-12R
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2021/03/02 10:12:34
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Lord Winchester
Now that I explained my concerns, I hope you understand my point of view
Thermaltake Level 20HT AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 Core Thermaltake Pacific MX1 Plus Water Block Gigabyte Aorus Master X570 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series DDR4 3600 2x Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe 1x Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB NVMe TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta MAX RGB SSD 1TB EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 ULTRA w/EKWB Dual Thermaltake PR22-D5 Pumps Dual Thermaltake Pacific CL360 64mm Rads EVGA SuperNOVA 1200 P2, 80+ PLATINUM 1200W MSI OPTIX MPG341CQR
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