bavor
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 14:27:58
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kevinc313
bavor
You can't fix every manufacturing flaw and design defect via firmware. That's the flaw in your thought process. You can't fix physical defects with software.
That isn't what I said.
You said, " I have a feeling it's a hardware design issue, and that can sometimes be worked around in software." The simple fact is the physical defects in the cards that are dying because of this game and other games are defects that can't be fixed in software.
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Jediexpress
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 16:11:56
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Somehow the 3090 ftw3 ultra I purchased in July from a local store was a v0.1... Bah!
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bmf79
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 17:40:38
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I wanted to check this game out but I’m not gambling with my 3080TI hybrid. I’ll wait until they sort it out
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jayman20
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 19:04:57
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flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage. I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
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Fayalite
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 19:21:01
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jayman20
flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage.
I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
If it is the second RMA for the same card, you should not pay for shipping, check with the support they might do something about it.
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kevinc313
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 19:31:45
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bavor
kevinc313
bavor
You can't fix every manufacturing flaw and design defect via firmware. That's the flaw in your thought process. You can't fix physical defects with software.
That isn't what I said.
You said, "I have a feeling it's a hardware , and that can sometimes be worked around in software."
The simple fact is the physical defects in the cards that are dying because of this game and other games are defects that can't be fixed in software.
Yes, the operative words are my use of " design issue...sometimes worked around in software" and your "You can't fix every manufacturing flaw and design defect via firmware". Those are entirely different statements. Not sure what your experience is with electronics in general, but I can assure you mine is considerable. Electrical and systems engineers love to fix something in software before resorting to a hardware fix.
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txfeinbergs
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 19:31:59
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Fayalite
Unfortunately this is a very complex problem that we all miss the critical data for it. Those with rev 0.1 definitely have a higher risk hardware, and I tend to agree on the side of getting it replaced if it misbehave asap. The latter are reported higher quality, just knowing that new world seems to be the new furmark should be enough to be very careful with it. I won't risk my 3090KP even if I have replacement, and also even with the power delivery it has, it just doesn't make sense. If I play the game it will be when we have a definitive answer why they do fail.
Everything else is speculation, and yes firmware/driver can fix hardware issue, because to me some of it seems to be firmware management issue as well.
Play Russian roulette with a shotgun is what it is when you have a 3090 with new world today, and soon they will find a way to fix the issue whatever it means (lower perf for the game or they figure out the exact trigger scenario and fix it).
Save your cards, don't play the game, it might be just perfectly fine and just need a firmware fix.
I have no issues playing the game with the V1.0 card. But, to not "play Russian Roulette with a shotgun", I keep my power level at 80% when playing this game.
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Fayalite
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 19:43:50
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txfeinbergs
I have no issues playing the game with the V1.0 card. But, to not "play Russian Roulette with a shotgun", I keep my power level at 80% when playing this game.
Yup I guess that's a good way to be safe. I will still not try, cause you never know, and don't have time for it. Whatever you think about him, I do like jayz2cents approach on checking the power usage, I would suggest even a lower like 70%, they seems to skyrocket the power usage a lot.
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ty_ger07
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 20:11:20
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kevinc313
...
Not to drag this out too long, but logic issues are often fixed in software/firmware, but hardware defects are not. A "hardware issue" could be a logic issue, as in the device is working properly, but the designers just didn't think it out properly and didn't realize that their design doesn't do what they expected it to do. That is a "hardware issue" from a design standpoint; AKA a logic issue. A hardware defect is also a "hardware issue" but it is not a logic issue. It is a manufacturing issue. You don't fix hardware defects with software or firmware. Look at Intel erratums for example. An erratum is solved in software or firmware to fix a logic issue. An Intel CPU might not function properly (or as "expected") until a software or firmware fix is applied, but that doesn't mean that the silicon melts or is damaged. When the silicon melts or is damaged by a hardware defect, that isn't something you would apply an erratum to. Physical damage, holes, smoking, sparks, etcetera is not something software or firmware usually is designed to resolve. Adding up numbers wrong is what a software or firmware fix is designed to resolve (for example).
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/10/13 20:12:49
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kevinc313
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 20:13:55
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ty_ger07
kevinc313
...
Not to drag this out too long, but logic issues are often fixed in software/firmware, but hardware defects are not. A "hardware issue" could be a logic issue, as in the device is working properly, but the designers just didn't think it out properly and didn't realize that their design doesn't do what they expected it to do. That is a "hardware issue" from a design standpoint; AKA a logic issue. A hardware defect is also a "hardware issue" but it is not a logic issue. It is a manufacturing issue. You don't fix hardware defects with software or firmware. Look at Intel erratums for example. An erratum is solved in software or firmware to fix a logic issue. An Intel CPU might not function properly (or as "expected") until a software or firmware fix is applied, but that doesn't mean that the silicon melts or is damaged. When the silicon melts or is damaged by a hardware defect, that isn't something you would apply an erratum to.
While I don't disagree, a power or RF issue *can sometimes* be resolved in code. There is also a distinct difference between a pure hardware design issue and a manufacturing defect, though they can drive each other.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/10/13 20:16:20
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ty_ger07
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 20:18:02
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kevinc313
ty_ger07
kevinc313
...
Not to drag this out too long, but logic issues are often fixed in software/firmware, but hardware defects are not. A "hardware issue" could be a logic issue, as in the device is working properly, but the designers just didn't think it out properly and didn't realize that their design doesn't do what they expected it to do. That is a "hardware issue" from a design standpoint; AKA a logic issue. A hardware defect is also a "hardware issue" but it is not a logic issue. It is a manufacturing issue. You don't fix hardware defects with software or firmware. Look at Intel erratums for example. An erratum is solved in software or firmware to fix a logic issue. An Intel CPU might not function properly (or as "expected") until a software or firmware fix is applied, but that doesn't mean that the silicon melts or is damaged. When the silicon melts or is damaged by a hardware defect, that isn't something you would apply an erratum to.
While I don't disagree, a power or RF issue *can sometimes* be resolved in code.
Well, these NVIDIA cards have half a dozen current sensors, yet still the power stages are receiving spikes triggering them to shut off via overcurrent protection (or pop if not up to the job). So, obviously NVIDIA's feedback loop is way too slow and is not functioning effectively. This has been going on for about a year. You would think that they would have resolved it by now, if it were easy to resolve with software or firmware. Blaming any game, benchmark, or third-party software publisher is silly.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/10/13 20:27:32
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kevinc313
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/13 20:34:36
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ty_ger07
kevinc313
ty_ger07
kevinc313
...
Not to drag this out too long, but logic issues are often fixed in software/firmware, but hardware defects are not. A "hardware issue" could be a logic issue, as in the device is working properly, but the designers just didn't think it out properly and didn't realize that their design doesn't do what they expected it to do. That is a "hardware issue" from a design standpoint; AKA a logic issue. A hardware defect is also a "hardware issue" but it is not a logic issue. It is a manufacturing issue. You don't fix hardware defects with software or firmware. Look at Intel erratums for example. An erratum is solved in software or firmware to fix a logic issue. An Intel CPU might not function properly (or as "expected") until a software or firmware fix is applied, but that doesn't mean that the silicon melts or is damaged. When the silicon melts or is damaged by a hardware defect, that isn't something you would apply an erratum to.
While I don't disagree, a power or RF issue *can sometimes* be resolved in code.
Well, these NVIDIA cards have half a dozen current sensors, yet still the power stages are receiving spikes triggering them to shut off via overcurrent protection (or pop if not up to the job). So, obviously NVIDIA's feedback loop is way too slow and is not functioning effectively. This has been going on for about a year. You would think that they would have resolved it by now, if it were easy to resolve with software or firmware.
Blaming any game, benchmark, or third-party software publisher is silly.
Clearly it is an issue deeply inherent to the design of this generation, they have likely had many iterations of software and hardware fixes before even releasing the cards. Not easily fixed in any way. Obviously EVGA has had to revise the 3090 pcb.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/10/13 20:36:45
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vladdimplr
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 08:58:48
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Is this also a thing for the 3090 Kingpin? I have zero issues with mine in New World, until yesterday the GPU just locked. Is this what I should be looking for or was it just a fluke?
Has not and still doesn't lock up in any other games, havnt played new world since because now im scary scared!
Kinpin is on a HC block doesn't cross 45c on gpu mem or power. Overclocked.
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Fayalite
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 09:52:51
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vladdimplr
Is this also a thing for the 3090 Kingpin? I have zero issues with mine in New World, until yesterday the GPU just locked. Is this what I should be looking for or was it just a fluke?
Has not and still doesn't lock up in any other games, havnt played new world since because now im scary scared!
Kinpin is on a HC block doesn't cross 45c on gpu mem or power. Overclocked.
If the kingpin has the same issue... I can't believe then it is related to power delivery... It is made for up to 1000W. That would mean a more profound issue with maybe the GPU silicon itself. Overclocker do push them past 700W... But by lock up can you explain the behavior a bit more? Might be simply your voltage being a bit low and not fully stable.
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flg2010
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 11:24:27
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What a mess. Holding out hope that my RMA when it gets here in a few weeks will not have the same issues.
If it does Its going right back.. and this time no cross ship.. I will just use my work laptop for work and game on my secondary rig..
---Main Rig Build ---CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, CPU Cooler: NZXT X73 360, GPU: EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra, MB: ASUS CH VIII Formula, RAM: 64GB G.Skill Trident RGB 3600, Storage: 2TB Adata M.2, 2TB WD SSD, 500GB WD SSD, Case: Thermaltake ARGB View51
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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 12:17:13
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vladdimplr
Is this also a thing for the 3090 Kingpin? I have zero issues with mine in New World, until yesterday the GPU just locked. Is this what I should be looking for or was it just a fluke?
Has not and still doesn't lock up in any other games, havnt played new world since because now im scary scared!
Kinpin is on a HC block doesn't cross 45c on gpu mem or power. Overclocked.
Haven’t seen anyone say their kingpin failed in new world. Same can be said for founders edition cards.
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Planetgazer15
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 14:06:31
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vladdimplr
Is this also a thing for the 3090 Kingpin? I have zero issues with mine in New World, until yesterday the GPU just locked. Is this what I should be looking for or was it just a fluke?
Has not and still doesn't lock up in any other games, havnt played new world since because now im scary scared!
Kinpin is on a HC block doesn't cross 45c on gpu mem or power. Overclocked.
@ vladdimplr Can you give us more info? I also have a Kingpin but haven't played New World yet: 1. Did your computer freeze and then reboot by itself? 2. Were you monitoring the GPU while this happened with power draw and temps? I know you are on a HC block, but usually what happens on air cooled 3090s is the screen turns black, fans speeds revs up to the max, and computer either reboots by itself or you have to do shut off your PC manually. Or did your GPU lock up because the game is pretty buggy still. A lot of us are curious because we haven't read about a Kingpin failing yet and I've been following this thing since cards were being bricked back in October of 2020. Let us know please
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d.burnette
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 14:11:14
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I don't know call me crazy but I think the last thing I would consider doing at this time with any 3090 card is to play New World. Course I am sure it is not always the case that the game was the cause - for instance I just got my 3090 FTW3 Ultra replaced under RMA and I don't even own New World.
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nmork
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 14:57:02
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Sharing my experience for whatever it's worth:
Skipped out on the beta, but started playing New World after launch. Had a few occasions of my system crashing (black screen + jet engine fans) but always came back after a reboot. It never did completely die. Opened up a support ticket and was offered an RMA. I didn't bother to check until I got my replacement, but my old card was rev 0.1 with red lips and the new card is 1.0 with black lips. Haven't played on the new card yet, but probably will play a bunch this weekend so if I have any issues I'll report back.
Got another 2 years and change left on the warranty so even if it still has issues, I don't really care. Not going to hesitate to play the game even if the card is still at risk of bricking. Even outside of this issue, Jacob and the whole team have always been pleasant to deal with.
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ss1252
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/14 22:06:29
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Well, after emailing support about playing new world on my 3090 kingpin hybrid, I decided to go ahead with the power limit set to 60% because I would rather find out that there's something wrong with my video card now then later down the road.
After playing it on and off for the past two days I can happily say that I've encountered no problems so far. Of course, I have the fps capped at 60 but the resolution at 2560x1440p with very high details. I'm scared to uncheck the fps cap lol but I should to make sure that there truly isn't any issue with the card.
Although I did receive a scare not that long ago. My character became stuck and then got disconnected. It took me several minutes to realize that it was just my internet that went down which lasted half an hour.
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midix
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/15 01:24:37
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DELPHl
when furmark melted gpus and now the nvidia driver can detect it and thus limiting gpus from going supernova and killing themselves.
That sounds more like a workaround than a real solution. Ok, that has become "industry standard practice", but, as we see, this can lead to neverending catching-up and adding more patches above patches, sometimes for very specific edge cases. For some reason, were are forgiving in this regard, when it comes to GPU hardware. With CPUs, this seems not to be the case. I can't imagine a situation when a CPU gets burned because somebody wrote a code that loads all CPU cores 100% (and it's very easy to do with just a few lines of code) and runs it for a day. Throttling and/or thermal shutdown will prevent CPU death. And so should it do on a GPU, even when it's factory-overclocked or user-overclocked. Overload protection should be of high priority for every manufacturer. Of course, GPU is more complex than CPU, with all those different kinds of cores and logic. Still, manufacturers should be able to do stress-testing with 100% load (and more - for overclocking). If manufacturers are not testing the limits on all types of GPU cores simultaneously, then it's the manufacturers' fault. If Nvidia hasn't provided tools for manufacturers to do fully covered stress testing, then it's Nvidia's fault. They can fix it in firmware/drivers to prevent pushing above limits but, in the end, it still should come down to hardware throttling/shutting down, instead of becoming unstable or even burning out. Protection should catch all those issues when GPU is pushed too hard because of something that was not handled in its firmware. Users shouldn't have to think about manually limiting FPS or any other settings for their games to avoid crashing&burning. If we don't accept such situations on CPUs, then why should we accept it on GPUs? Just because GPUs are used mostly for entertainment purposes, thus they are not that critically important when compared to CPUs running businesses, servers, etc.? Not sure. It's just clear the attitude to GPUs, in general, is different and reliability somehow gets pushed down the priority list. I hope, the issues with 30 series will be a lesson for manufacturers to pay more attention to proper stress-testing and adjusting the hardware, to better be "safe than sorry". Enough ranting from me :) I'm not buying a 3090 anyway, I'm waiting for 3060 in Europe for reasonable prices, those 12GBs look attractive also for neural network experiments. Hopefully, 3060, as a weaker GPU, has more strict limits built-in to prevent it from skyrocketing over its limits.
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mpisani1985
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/15 05:28:33
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jayman20
flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage.
I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
Glad I'm not the only one at least. Got a replacement 3080 this week cause the original was having issues with New World. Now the new card is getting black screens. This suuucks.
post edited by mpisani1985 - 2021/10/15 05:29:41
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Ravena
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/15 05:40:29
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jayman20
flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage.
I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
I had to request a 1.0 rev and they approved that request it since I am on my second RMA now after having 2 0.1's go poof. only issue is that they are waiting on stock to come in :( I wanted to cross ship but looking like supply issues going to hinder that plan if they don't get in a shipment on Monday/Tuesday next week. hoping they get more cards in and slowly replace 0.1 cards with 1.0 cause 0.1 power delivery and what not is just bad. hopefully your next RMA works out.
post edited by Ravena - 2021/10/15 05:41:45
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Fuzzy833
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/15 05:42:33
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Out of interest, has anybody had any problems with the 3090 XC3 Ultra? Admittedly I think they're considerably rarer than the FTW, but I haven't seen anybody with an XC3 have a problem?
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jayman20
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/15 12:38:45
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Ravena
jayman20
flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage.
I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
I had to request a 1.0 rev and they approved that request it since I am on my second RMA now after having 2 0.1's go poof. only issue is that they are waiting on stock to come in :(
I wanted to cross ship but looking like supply issues going to hinder that plan if they don't get in a shipment on Monday/Tuesday next week.
hoping they get more cards in and slowly replace 0.1 cards with 1.0 cause 0.1 power delivery and what not is just bad. hopefully your next RMA works out.
Thanks for the info! I have the original support request email in, just waiting on a response to get a ticket# so I can officially request an RMA.. I'll be sure to ask for a 1.0 card and return shipping this time, I'd rather wait than get another likely problematic 0.1
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JSmiLez
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/21 13:03:26
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Evga is the best hands down. Just received my new rev 1.0 and the card runs great!
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SyncFx
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/21 13:28:27
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JSmiLez
Evga is the best hands down. Just received my new rev 1.0 and the card runs great!
Lucky you. I just got mine yesterday and got another Rev0.1. With red lips as well... Fk.
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Abadx
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/21 13:35:30
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don't play it at allllllll
that game well kill your 3090 like me
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SyncFx
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/21 13:39:40
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Abadx
don't play it at allllllll
that game well kill your 3090 like me
That's the dilemma I'm in. I could not play and extend the life. What if it breaks right outside warranty? Or just play and break it and hope I get a rev1.0
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Abadx
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Re: EVGA 3090 owners - do NOT play New World game right now as it might kill the card
2021/10/21 13:50:00
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jayman20
Ravena
jayman20
flg2010
So they are replacing the 3090s with v1.0 cards ?? If they blow up
No :( I just got my RMA back late last week and it was another 0.1 card.. Worked over the weekend and now this card is starting with the black screens (while PC stays running in the background) and completely black screen with fans ramping to 100%.. I haven't even gotten the heavy duty games loaded in yet, just D2 at about 40% GPU usage.
I think I have it isolated to the card pretty well too.. Have two complete systems and another 3090 to test with, that all work fine otherwise. Looks like another $25 in shipping and 2 week wait in my future.
I had to request a 1.0 rev and they approved that request it since I am on my second RMA now after having 2 0.1's go poof. only issue is that they are waiting on stock to come in :(
I wanted to cross ship but looking like supply issues going to hinder that plan if they don't get in a shipment on Monday/Tuesday next week.
hoping they get more cards in and slowly replace 0.1 cards with 1.0 cause 0.1 power delivery and what not is just bad. hopefully your next RMA works out.
Thanks for the info! I have the original support request email in, just waiting on a response to get a ticket# so I can officially request an RMA.. I'll be sure to ask for a 1.0 card and return shipping this time, I'd rather wait than get another likely problematic 0.1
oh how I know ? I'm really sure my dead card is 0.1 but How do I know the version of the replaced card? I am scared to get card have same issues I'm from Middle East I just paid $200 just for shipping it is a pain guys
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