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kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 07:35:33 (permalink)
MadmanRB
Well in the case of both the Ryzen 9 3900X and the 3950X I do think AMD has good justification of the price more then intel does.
 
 
Remember the 3900X is a 12 core 24 thread processor so it makes sense why its $500
I can also justify the cost of the 3950X as well as both of these kinds of core and thread counts are locked on intels enthusiast grade hardware whereas the 3950X is actually on a mainstream platform this making the incentive to buy it very appealing.
Then there is the 3950X which at $750 but that is pennies compared to intels offerings.
This is pretty much the same thing that happened when AMD launched the 1800X, again its launch price was pretty high at $500
It was easy to compare it to the price point on the losing side when talking about games compared to the 8700K but again it was (true) 8 core 16 thread processor for the mainstream.
Its practically the same situation with the 3950X, its price is insane for mainsteream but is a total steal for enthusiast grade processors.
The big issue right now of intel is that they have a supply issue and cant mark down the higher end stuff.
AMD is really being good at taking this opportunity here.




Obviously the "AMD stomps Intel" meme is quite a bit overblown.  The i9-9960x was just on closeout for $799, it's very close to the 3950X.  The i9-10960X will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the 3950X.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.  
 
AMD has released some competitive processors, but they are no real threat to Intel.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2019/11/18 10:34:32
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 07:46:12 (permalink)
kevinc313
 
Obviously the "AMD stomps Intel" meme is quite a bit overblown.  The i9-9960x was just on closeout for $799, it's very close to the 3950X.  The i9-10960x will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the X3950.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.  
 
AMD has released some competitive processors, but they are no real treat to Intel.



You sure about that?
If I were intel I would take AMD very seriously
Yes AMD isnt the powerhouse that Intel is but that doesnt mean that they cant compete with intel.
Only arrogance and blind loyalty would make one think this.
A giant can fall easily, yes AMD is a small fish and Intel seems like a great white shark but that doesnt mean Intel cant choke on AMD's leftovers.
AMD is already gaining back a lot of ground they lost thanks to Ryzen, they have become a major rival in the server section with Epyc.
Its easy to get blinded when the 9900K runs at 150 FPS in a game that can only run at 140FPS on a AMD machine but then it should be a wake up call when that rival processor isnt the Ryzen 9 3900X but the 3700X and that 3700X is cheaper by $150 or so.
Its nice and easy to brag you have the cream of the crop but at the same time the competition is not as far behind as you think.
No prize for second place? I have to put that into question.
 
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/11/18 11:36:20


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kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 09:24:27 (permalink)
MadmanRB
kevinc313
 
Obviously the "AMD stomps Intel" meme is quite a bit overblown.  The i9-9960x was just on closeout for $799, it's very close to the 3950X.  The i9-10960x will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the X3950.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.  
 
AMD has released some competitive processors, but they are no real treat to Intel.


You sure about that?
If I were intel I would take AMD very seriously
Yes AMD isnt the powerhouse that Intel is but that doesnt mean that they cant compete with intel.
Only arrogance and blind loyalty would make one think this.
A giant can fall easily, yes AMD is a small fish and Intel seems like a great white shark but that doesnt mean Intel cant choke on AMD's leftovers.
AMD is already gaining back a lot of ground they lost thanks to Ryzen, they have become a major rival in the server section with Epyc.
Its easy to get blinded when the 9900K runs at 150 FPS in a game that can only run at 140FPS on a AMD machine but then it should be a wake up call when that rival processor isnt the Ryzen 9 3900X but the 3700X and that 3700X is cheaper by $150 or so.
Its nice and easy to brag you have the cream of the crop but at the same time the competition is not as far behind as you think.
No prize for second place? I have to put that into question.
 
 



Yeah I'm pretty sure.  
 
https://youtu.be/stM2CPF9YAY?t=263
 
Intel currently has a $254B market cap while AMD is $44B.  
 
Of course it's normal and healthy for Intel to have competition across various parts of it's business, so it's great that AMD is able to put out some competitive processors.
 
Do I see them losing a major portion of their business to AMD in the near future?  There's nothing to indicate that, at all.
 
 
 
 
(edit Cool GTX .. update quote)
post edited by Cool GTX - 2019/11/18 11:42:02
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 09:42:34 (permalink)
Doesnt mean its impossible.
Plus yes Intel is worth more then AMD but if history tells is anything just because you are top dog and have all the money in the world doesn't mean you cant loose.
Once upon Yahoo was king of the internet and Google was nobody
Or Apple was once the underdog in mobile with Nokia being top dog
Then there was the battle between Myspace and Facebook
Or Netflix and Blockbuster
Or Vince McMahon and WWE/F vs Ted Turner and WCW
Ford was also a underdog against Ferarri in racing
Mozilla was a underdog against microsoft
 
This list goes on and on, point is just because you have a near monopoly right now doesnt mean you cant falter and fail
 
The only thing AMD doesnt have now is mobile but that can change at any time
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/11/18 09:45:22


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kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 10:38:41 (permalink)
MadmanRB
Doesnt mean its impossible.
Plus yes Intel is worth more then AMD but if history tells is anything just because you are top dog and have all the money in the world doesn't mean you cant loose.
Once upon Yahoo was king of the internet and Google was nobody
Or Apple was once the underdog in mobile with Nokia being top dog
Then there was the battle between Myspace and Facebook
Or Netflix and Blockbuster
Or Vince McMahon and WWE/F vs Ted Turner and WCW
Ford was also a underdog against Ferarri in racing
Mozilla was a underdog against microsoft
 
This list goes on and on, point is just because you have a near monopoly right now doesnt mean you cant falter and fail
 
The only thing AMD doesnt have now is mobile but that can change at any time




AMD isn't a real threat to Intel.
 
AMD: *releases fancy new processor*
Intel: Do you even fab, bro?
post edited by kevinc313 - 2019/11/18 10:42:58
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:12:53 (permalink)
Keep saying AMD isnt a threat, pride often comes before the fall there bud
 
No one thought that Ford could beat Ferrari at Les Mans
Or Muhammad Ali could beat George Foreman
 
The world is full of underdog stories and never underestimate things.
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/11/18 11:19:07


#36
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:20:35 (permalink)
Lets stay On Topic & within the TOS
 
 
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:24:50 (permalink)
Sorry, I was not trying to sound hostile mind you but I do admit I like good underdog story.
It was not my intention to derail the topic, that was unintentional


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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:32:11 (permalink)
AMD in the Past had a good run on Intel ..... then for over a decade AMD became a "budget product"
 
Now AMD is Looking much better than they were & are definitely Hurting Intel's Bottomline
 
Now AMD needs to Prove they are Not a Flash in the Pan --> Again
 
All consumers will WIN if these two titans try to out do each other BOTH in Performance & Reduced Retail Prices

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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:40:01 (permalink)
Cool GTX
AMD in the Past had a good run on Intel ..... then for over a decade AMD became a "budget product"
 
Now AMD is Looking much better than they were & are definitely Hurting Intel's Bottomline
 
Now AMD needs to Prove they are Not a Flash in the Pan --> Again
 
All consumers will WIN if these two titans try to out do each other BOTH in Performance & Reduced Retail Prices




 
I think AMD has loads of potential, Lisa Su seems to be very good at taking AMD to places it has not been in a while.
Yes mistakes were still made under her wing but as long as AMD can learn from them and keep adapting they can pull this off.
This is why I say dont underestimate AMD, yes they dont make thier own fabs but that hasnt stopped ARM from being a success in mobile.
After all ARM doesnt make its own fabs but its ideas and architecture is the backbone of todays mobile market.
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/11/18 11:43:25


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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 11:57:08 (permalink)
Wait review of 10900X - 10920X. 
Maybe Intel drop price of 12C/24T model, closer to R9-3900X value.
 
For my needs I would rather take Intel 12 cores then AMDs 16 for same price.
Becuase PCI-E 4.0 still sleep same as USB 3.1 Gen 2 and because X299 is my favorite chipset of all available now.
Even I prefer him more then Threadripper, actucally Threadripper is not for me at all. 
 
 
post edited by Vlada011 - 2019/11/18 12:00:34

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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 12:00:13 (permalink)
Vlada011
Maybe Intel drop price of 12C/24T model, closer to R9-3900X value.




 
This would be smart but I dont know if intel can do it.
This is the con of doing your own fabs, but they still need to cut prices next gen no ifs ands or buts.


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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 12:09:48 (permalink)
I find it very difficult to take AMD seriously because they got rid of their IC fab ten years ago.  
 
I'm guessing that people getting all riled up about "muh 7nm process" don't really understand that AMD stopped fabbing their own chips.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2019/11/18 12:12:15
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 12:29:35 (permalink)
kevinc313
I find it very difficult to take AMD seriously because they got rid of their IC fab ten years ago.  
 
I'm guessing that people getting all riled up about "muh 7nm process" don't really understand that AMD stopped fabbing their own chips.





But again there are obvious cons to doing your own fabs as indicated by intels current prices over AMD, not to mention intel has been locked to the same base with only minor tweaks.
Intel has not innovated and will continue to not innovate as long as they dont take AMD seriously.
This is not a battle of core and thread counts, or high FPS, or frequencies or 7nm.
Its a matter of offering the best product for the money and to be honest I think this is where AMD currently shines.
Intel can have the best product on the market with the 9900K but the competition comes so close.
This is what can hurt Intel, they can still remain ahead of AMD but the cost factor needs to be competitive.
Neither company can rest on their laurels, sure AMD is still playing catch up but we know already the next processors will be faster.
Granted we are still talking about incremental changes but Moores law is faltering thanks to how small things are now.
Both companies will need to adapt and i already like AMD's "Chiplet" idea, its not perfect but it does mean AND processors can be more modular now.
processor modularity is what i think the future of computers are based on our current rate of technology.
3D nodes are also plausible but I think combining the two would be for the best.
Performance gains will soon be a thing of the past though and the next fight would be efficiency methinks.
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/11/18 12:32:22


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kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 12:38:38 (permalink)
Intel controls their own fabs and their own destiny.  
 
This does not matter for consumer grade manufacturing.
 
It becomes a big factor for enterprise.
 
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 13:17:49 (permalink)
Yeah but what about Epyc?
Seems like AMD is making some headway there.
Thats two fronts where AMD is nipping at Intels heels.
Again so far the only place AMD is slagging behind on is laptops and on mobile platforms but they have the potential to do well there as well.


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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 13:57:06 (permalink)
MadmanRB
Yeah but what about Epyc?
Seems like AMD is making some headway there.
Thats two fronts where AMD is nipping at Intels heels.
Again so far the only place AMD is slagging behind on is laptops and on mobile platforms but they have the potential to do well there as well.




I'd be curious who is deploying those at the enterprise level.
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 14:06:27 (permalink)
Netflix is planning on using them in servers:
 
https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/136478-netflix-eyes-move-amd-epyc-processors-data-centres/
 
As is Tencent:
 
https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/james-dawson/tencent-will-be-using-amd-epyc-rome-processors-in-new-star-lake-cloud-server/
 
Microsofts azure:
 
https://www.hpcwire.com/2019/11/06/azure-cloud-first-to-feature-amd-epyc-rome-processors/
 
These are the three main companies so far that seem to be ready for AMD
 
I can imagine many following them, small steps.


#48
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 14:08:02 (permalink)
MadmanRB
Yeah but what about Epyc?
Seems like AMD is making some headway there.
Thats two fronts where AMD is nipping at Intels heels.
Again so far the only place AMD is slagging behind on is laptops and on mobile platforms but they have the potential to do well there as well.



What about Epyc? -- Looks great for raw processing performance, but I don't see anything like DDR-T for AMD.
 
AMD is highly dependent on TSMC to surpass Intel and they've all ready been up front that they are not going to be able to keep up with the demand. One example would be... they are super late with the Ryzen 9 3950X that was announced to come out in the first half of the year. Now reviewers have it, but it's still not available to consumers. What I find interesting... everyone is looking at this battle between AMD and Intel, no one is watching Samsung just take everything,

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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 14:19:21 (permalink)
Well the main reason why samsung is ignored is that they are more a factor in mobile and yeah mobile markets get ignored by us techies as we like our old fashioned X86 CISC style processors and our standard computer desktops.
Though Samsungs dominance has not escaped me, they have become a juggernaut and will be very hard to ignore quite soon.


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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 22:06:43 (permalink)
kevinc313
 
The i9-10960X will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the 3950X.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.




In what sense do you mean they are better when the others are at least I thought more powerful chips?  I figured if you can clock them high up at their speed, should be the same if not more no?

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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 22:54:19 (permalink)
kevinc313
I find it very difficult to take AMD seriously because they got rid of their IC fab ten years ago.  
 
I'm guessing that people getting all riled up about "muh 7nm process" don't really understand that AMD stopped fabbing their own chips.




I have impression that many people switch to AMD without any needs with processors almost equal in applications they used mostly, 90% of time.
Only because AMD have good processors they upgrade whole platform and change memory on different type of DDR4 designed for AMD, new motherboards AM4 and they still had usefull platform as Z370, Z390 or X99/X299. 
No any reason to customers with first gen of Skylake-X 8 cores and X299 switch to new Ryzen.
Lifetime of X299 will be enough for any needs until DDR5 show up. Then motherboards will have better Intel Network Contoller, newer USB 4.0, maybe even newer PCI-E Interface then AMD. 
post edited by Vlada011 - 2019/11/18 22:57:14

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#52
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/18 23:44:56 (permalink)
kevinc313
Obviously the "AMD stomps Intel" meme is quite a bit overblown.  The i9-9960x was just on closeout for $799, it's very close to the 3950X.  The i9-10960X will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the 3950X.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.  
 
AMD has released some competitive processors, but they are no real threat to Intel.



 


 
There is no new i9-10960x coming..... you are just making stuff up.
 
I will also say that the new cascade lake i9-10980xe will lose to the 3950x in many more benchmarks than it should. Out of the box single core performance being one of them, and of course power efficiency. It will be better though overclocked. Then again we are talking about Intel's top of the line HEDT part going up against a mainstream part.
 
AMD has better single core performance in many applications, due to higher IPC. Intel mainstream has much better latency though and does better at latency sensitive applications, which is why they are still better at gaming. Intel HEDT doesn't have a ringbus like intel mainstream so some what loses it best advantage over Ryzen 3K, its still better at latency but not much unless overclocking the mesh.
 
Now I am not saying the i9-10980xe if can be had for $1000 isn't a good cpu or even a great buy, its actually a great processor. I have heard it will be very low volume and will probably be sold out constantly but I hope she was incorrect and it will be actually obtainable. As many early X299 processors are looking very slow compared to even other intel parts (looking at you 7900x) and it would be great upgrade for many. 
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 04:04:21 (permalink)
If Intel disregards AMD they'll be in trouble....and 'beat' the 3950 ..by how much? 5%? Is the 5% worth another 150 bucks? (to me it isn't when you're talking 1 second difference in time taken to render something..but that's me)
 
 

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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 05:54:22 (permalink)
GTXJackBauer
kevinc313
 
The i9-10960X will be out shortly for around $850-900 and will match or beat the 3950X.  The 9900k and 9900ks still beat them both in high FPS gaming.




In what sense do you mean they are better when the others are at least I thought more powerful chips?  I figured if you can clock them high up at their speed, should be the same if not more no?




I'm basing my comments off these early benchmarks.  
 
https://youtu.be/stM2CPF9YAY?t=263
 
 
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 06:02:09 (permalink)
vegajf51
There is no new i9-10960x coming..... you are just making stuff up.


The shady media is making stuff up.
 
https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-10980xe-18-core-cascade-lake-x-cpu-benchmarks-leak/
 
I suppose one is not specifically listed for the "Cascade Lake-X" launch, but they are reasonably expecting one to be released, given that there was a 7960x and 9960x. 
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 08:10:47 (permalink)
kevinc313
vegajf51
There is no new i9-10960x coming..... you are just making stuff up.


The shady media is making stuff up.
 
https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-10980xe-18-core-cascade-lake-x-cpu-benchmarks-leak/
 
I suppose one is not specifically listed for the "Cascade Lake-X" launch, but they are reasonably expecting one to be released, given that there was a 7960x and 9960x. 


You will see, no 16 core is coming, 18 core yes, just no 16 core. I got this from a very reliable person, she has 100% correct track record on her info. Not to say she could be wrong but she hasn't yet :-) 
post edited by vegajf51 - 2019/11/19 08:15:50
#57
kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 08:40:25 (permalink)
vegajf51
kevinc313
vegajf51
There is no new i9-10960x coming..... you are just making stuff up.


The shady media is making stuff up.
 
https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-10980xe-18-core-cascade-lake-x-cpu-benchmarks-leak/
 
I suppose one is not specifically listed for the "Cascade Lake-X" launch, but they are reasonably expecting one to be released, given that there was a 7960x and 9960x. 


You will see, no 16 core is coming, 18 core yes, just no 16 core. I got this from a very reliable person, she has 100% correct track record on her info. Not to say she could be wrong but she hasn't yet :-) 




Great, thanks for trying to provide correct info.  Very interesting if they won't have a 16 core product to go head to head with the 3950X.
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RainStryke
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 11:51:47 (permalink)
MadmanRB
Well the main reason why samsung is ignored is that they are more a factor in mobile and yeah mobile markets get ignored by us techies as we like our old fashioned X86 CISC style processors and our standard computer desktops.
Though Samsungs dominance has not escaped me, they have become a juggernaut and will be very hard to ignore quite soon.




There is a good chance they are going to be making all of Nvidia's next gen GPU's.
https://www.techradar.com/news/7nm-nvidia-gpus-could-come-in-2020-through-partnership-with-samsung

___________


Yeah, Intel dropped the i9 10960X all together, it's not even on their product page:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/processors/core/x-series.html

Main PC|CPU: Intel i7 8086K|CPU Cooler:EK-Velocity|Motherboard:Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Master|GPU:NVIDIA RTX 2080 Ti with EKWB Vector|Monitor:Dell S2716DG|RAM:32GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 4266MHz CL17|PSU:Seasonic X-1250|SSD:Samsung EVO 970 1TB|Case:Lian Li PC-011
#59
kevinc313
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Re: CPU choices... 2019/11/19 12:27:50 (permalink)
There has been some conjecture that they are purposely holding back the i9-10960X so they can release a chip that solidly competes with the 3950X.  
 
It's a glaring omission if they don't release one.
#60
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