Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/15 11:38:33
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danyulcohen It seems the initial spin-up takes the fan to 590 RPM no matter what the desired % value is.
Unfortunately, that is probably a necessity due to the PWM method of speed control. And just so that I understand clearly: The initial sound is produced just the same even when starting from 0 to say, 80% or 100%? danyulcohen I expect to keep this card (or a similar one) for a very long time. Certainly past the point at which the 3-year warranty will expire. Paying $30 for another two years of warranty coverage seems very expensive when you consider that the cost for an RTX 2080 TI is the exact same amount. The RTX 2070 just happens to fall in the worst possible location on the pricing guide in regards to purchasing an extended warranty.
I never buy extended warranties myself, but if you really plan on running the card for four+ years, I wouldn't think it a bad idea to spend the $30. If you got free shipping, you could think of it as having normally been spent on that anyway, at least partially. Having said that, I really don't know what the longevity statistics are for EVGA cards. Of the five+ EVGA cards I have purchased** (I can't remember if the FX 5200 was EVGA) the only problem I had was the GTX 570 being defective out of the box. I kept getting a POST error, and EVGA was very quick about acknowledging the faultiness and replacing the card. But otherwise I ran the cards at stock speeds for between ~2 - 3.5 years each, all day long nearly every day. Not that it means anything, but I felt that each card could have been run quite a while longer. I wonder, as long as a card has no defect from the beginning, how long an EVGA card can be expected to run at stock speeds, assuming "average" gaming usage (if such a usage can be determined, lol). ** 2 x GTX 260, GTX 570, GTX 770, GTX 980 Ti
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danyulcohen
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/15 11:48:30
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https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/the-truth-about-fluid-dynamic-bearing-fdb-fans/5/ This is a link to the design of a fan classified by its manufacturer as 'Hydro Dynamic Bearing". Apparently Matsusheeta(sic) owns the patent on the design for what are commonly referred to as "Fluid Dynamic Bearing" fans. That being said Matsu****a does not own the trademark for that name. The article describes the different details of various fluid dynamic bearing fans and the page I linked to specifically refers to the one that is called a "Hydro Dynamic Bearing" fan. This is the same name EVGA uses, so I don't think it's too far of a stretch to assume that their fans are based on this design. Additionally here are a few links from the company that has the patent on the "Hydro Dynamic Bearing" fan the initial link refers to. The first document is a PDF about the original HDB fan design referred to as Sintetico. https://www.ystechusa.com...-bear-presentation.pdf The second document is about their new generation HDB fan design referred to as Sintetico II. https://www.ystechusa.com/sintetico-ii/ This final link is a general overview of their Sintetico bearings. https://www.ystechusa.com...ct/sintetico-bearings/ I'm not the engineer type, but maybe I'll have the old man take a look. In the meantime maybe some of you will find this information interesting. It's interesting that EVGA chose to use the term "Hydro Dynamic Bearing" when they could have called the Fluid Dynamic Bearing or Rifle Bearing or any other number of names used that refer to fluid bearing fans. The first article linked at the top of the post goes into the differences between various FDB fans and the alternate designs and names used for them. Anyways, maybe some of you will find this stuff interesting.
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danyulcohen
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/15 11:49:58
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Flonkam, Yes, in my testing the noise the fan makes when spinning up for the first time doesn't change regardless of the targeted speed set for fan operation. If I go for 1% of 80% it's the same. Yeah, the $30 isn't ridiculously expensive or anything, it's just likely to be an unnecessary expense. My previous card, a 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ started having issues with the fan in under a year. I guess it just seems unlikely to me the card will have issues between the 3 and 5 year point. I suppose it is possible though. I don't remember when my 8800GT died in relation to the time I bought it because back then the cards came with lifetime warranties. I suppose the best argument in favor of an extended warranty is that it might help with resale value? I'm just hoping that I do not end up with another faulty fan on a GPU after the issues with my previous 2 cards.
post edited by danyulcohen - 2018/12/15 11:57:25
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csaris
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 02:49:30
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If it's from PWM control, I don't believe that can be fixed with a bios or any other update.
The workaround is a bios update that keeps the fans always at ~10%. So the click will be only heard only in power on.
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KaptCrunch
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 04:27:19
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Flonkam Unfortunately, that is probably a necessity due to the PWM method of speed control. And just so that I understand clearly: The initial sound is produced just the same even when starting from 0 to say, 80% or 100%? for what I experienced of the clicking noise out of the box, is that wires were rubbing fan blades Gee if anybody has good detail sense would know the sound is coming from hard contact click-tick randomly , the PWM has a snapping sound that is consistently phased Common open your eyes quality control for my unit passed your check point with wires rubbing fan. QC can talk till the cow comes home, some body has to milk the cow to drink the milk
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 04:57:17
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danyulcohen Apparently Matsusheeta(sic) owns the patent on the design for what are commonly referred to as "Fluid Dynamic Bearing" fans. That being said Matsu****a does not own the trademark for that name. The article describes the different details of various fluid dynamic bearing fans and the page I linked to specifically refers to the one that is called a "Hydro Dynamic Bearing" fan. This is the same name EVGA uses, so I don't think it's too far of a stretch to assume that their fans are based on this design.
I don't know this for certain, but my understanding was that the patented design by Matsupoopa (Take that, Robocensor!) is superior in that it is 100% sealed and is designed such that the opposing surfaces can never come into contact through the fluid film. And again, I'm not positive but I thought that the name "Fluid Dynamic Bearing" was actually trademarked, which was why other terms were created. It's interesting because, with the possible exception of Matsumerdea's patented design, I thought that such bearings were not ideal for applications with continual start/stop cycles. danyulcohen I suppose the best argument in favor of an extended warranty is that it might help with resale value?
Are these warranties transferable? That's something I don't know. KaptCrunch for what I experienced of the clicking noise out of the box, is that wires were rubbing fan blades Gee if anybody has good detail sense would know the sound is coming from hard contact click-tick randomly , the PWM has a snapping sound that is consistently phased
The first thing to do is to verify that the noise you experienced matches the noise in the video that was posted earlier in this thread. There is good reason to believe that some people who are experiencing start-up noise have an obstruction even if it does not seem apparent, simply due to the fact that there are many verified cases of this within this thread and elsewhere. But it also seems that there is another cause, and there could well be situations in which a GPU/fan experiences both causes, with perhaps one being more apparent than the other.
post edited by Flonkam - 2018/12/16 05:07:42
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_JeffP
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 05:06:55
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Flonkam
danyulcohen I suppose the best argument in favor of an extended warranty is that it might help with resale value?
Are these warranties transferable? That's something I don't know.
Extended warranties do not transfer to second owners and are only available the original owner.
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KaptCrunch
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 11:59:14
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flonkamThe first thing to do is to verify that the noise you experienced matches the noise in the video that was posted earlier in this thread. There is good reason to believe that some people who are experiencing start-up noise have an obstruction even if it does not seem apparent, simply due to the fact that there are many verified cases of this within this thread and elsewhere. But it also seems that there is another cause, and there could well be situations in which a GPU/fan experiences both causes, with perhaps one being more apparent than the other. if had owned a video camera at time would proved I'm not talking out of thin air, for out of the box wires were touching fan period since I fixed the issue with a glob of silicone to do a video now is pointless now or you want me to do one and hear nothing for that is what I hear. zero noise. and other causes is QC failed it function, PWM is smoke n mirrors for, fan was that slow you wouldn't cool anything, only make noise. gee silent fanatics need to go water cooled
post edited by KaptCrunch - 2018/12/16 12:03:34
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 15:37:36
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KaptCrunch ...to do a video now is pointless now or you want me to do one and hear nothing for that is what I hear. zero noise.
No, you misunderstand me. I was asking you to listen to the video in this thread to find out if the sound in this video is the same sound that you were experiencing.
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KaptCrunch
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/16 17:03:12
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sempifi99
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/18 09:55:59
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+1 with the fain noise problem. I have a 2080 Ti FTW3 with the first fan being very clickie.
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danyulcohen
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/19 10:40:39
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Mine has the noise, but I just can't fathom that it's related to a wire obstruction. I've had the GPU for maybe 3 weeks now and I don't hear anything at all except that noise made upon startup. I'd figure by this point the noise would have changed or I'd hear it when the fans are running at 15% or something. I'll take some pics of my GPU while it's upside down hanging in my case to see if I can find any evidence of an obstruction... again. Lol. At this point my fix has been to just set a custom fan curve since I always have MSI afterburner open anyway and the CPU usage is incredibly minimal in stepped fan mode. I have it set for 0% at 32C then 15% at 50C. Then 30% @ 54C, 40% @ 57C, 50% at 60C, 60% at 63C, 66% at 66C and finally 75% at 70C. If I try to set the fan target below 13% in stepped fan mode it constantly starts and stops. I tried running the fans in linear curve mode, but the problem then is that at any temperature value above 32C the fans spin up and if the target speed is less than 13% they start and stop repeatedly. So I'd have to change the points on the fan curve to adjust for that, but doing so would mean raising the 0% value higher which would potentially cause the fans to stop while gaming at light loads. The whole idea of setting 0% at 32C is that the fans will never spin down under any kind of load that caused them to spin up in the first place. Watching videos with MadVR doesn't cause the fans to start as temps don't hit 50C. I'm using the 2070 XC Ultra so idle and minimal load temps seem to stay pretty low.
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/19 16:44:44
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danyulcohen Mine has the noise, but I just can't fathom that it's related to a wire obstruction. I've had the GPU for maybe 3 weeks now and I don't hear anything at all except that noise made upon startup. I'd figure by this point the noise would have changed or I'd hear it when the fans are running at 15% or something. I'll take some pics of my GPU while it's upside down hanging in my case to see if I can find any evidence of an obstruction... again. Lol.
Unfortunately, there is simply no way of knowing for sure that there is no obstruction without performing a minute examination with the GPU outside of the case with sufficient lighting. Several people who have found obstructions have reported a sound only at start-up, because the air pressure of the fan can keep an obstruction away from the blades once the RPM is high enough. And since an obstruction doesn't have to be "hanging loose", it doesn't necessarily matter that the GPU is upside down or in any particular orientation. danyulcohen At this point my fix has been to just set a custom fan curve since I always have MSI afterburner open anyway and the CPU usage is incredibly minimal in stepped fan mode. I have it set for 0% at 32C then 15% at 50C. Then 30% @ 54C, 40% @ 57C, 50% at 60C, 60% at 63C, 66% at 66C and finally 75% at 70C. If I try to set the fan target below 13% in stepped fan mode it constantly starts and stops. I tried running the fans in linear curve mode, but the problem then is that at any temperature value above 32C the fans spin up and if the target speed is less than 13% they start and stop repeatedly.
Are you using hysteresis? Hysteresis works in either mode, doesn't it? If you set your hysteresis at a delta of 5 degrees for example, the fan shouldn't stop until the temperature has dropped 5 degrees lower than the target point, instead of stopping right after hitting the point. danyulcohen So I'd have to change the points on the fan curve to adjust for that, but doing so would mean raising the 0% value higher which would potentially cause the fans to stop while gaming at light loads. The whole idea of setting 0% at 32C is that the fans will never spin down under any kind of load that caused them to spin up in the first place.
Don't take my opinion as Gospel, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the fans not spinning. The only thing that matters is temperature, not whether the fans are spinning or not. Keeping a chip cool is good for longevity, but I don't think it's necessary to compulsively make sure that the fans are always spinning at anything above "idle".
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danyulcohen
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/21 13:44:15
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Yeah, I'm using hysteresis, it just doesn't work like you'd expect with the fan in a linear graph mode. The fan won't drop down to the lower point on the graph, but it will fall and rise at a linear rate in the area between the two points on the graph. If I have it at 35C for the fans to start and 30C for the fans to turn off, even with Hysteresis set to 6C the fans speed will drop at a linear rate between 35-30. Since the fan is set to stop at 30C the hysteresis value of 6C has no meaning for the lowest value on the graph in linear mode. Since the fan travels at a linear rate between 35-30, say from 20% down to 0%. My fans start and stop constantly at any value below 13%. Stepped mode fixes that issue as the fans stay at the exact speed selected on the graph until you reach the next point and exceed the hysteresis value. One thing that's interesting is yesterday I took my CPU case apart and put a new dust filter over the front, because the filter that came with this case was horrible compared to my old case. I ended up using a pair of nylons and cutting the leg off then putting it over the lower front part of my case, which is just a wire mesh type thing. Anyway, while my PC was apart I took some canned air and used it to remove some dust that had built up in various areas due to the inferior old filter on my case. While doing this I used some canned air to cause my CPU heatsink fan to rotate. I noticed the exact same noise that the EVGA fans make from my CPU cooler fan. It just wasn't as loud. Also it only happens once when the PC is first powered on so it's not something you can hear unless you don't have any case fans. It was the exact same sound the EVGA fans make. I'd never heard it before yesterday. It's a Cryorig H7 cooler with the original fan on it. I was surprised to hear the noise when I used the compressed air to spin the fan. I'd never heard it before and I built this computer in March of 2016. While I had the computer apart I took out the GPU and examined it. I couldn't find any signs of an obstruction. I was mainly looking for nicks or scratches on the wires, but I didn't find any. I was pretty thorough and used a flashlight, but if the obstruction is very close to the fan hub it's possible I could have missed it because it's hard to see through the blades and I didn't want to take the GPU apart. I didn't even really want to take it out of my case, lol. One thing just lead to another and then I spent like half a day messing with it and making the new dust filter etc. I'm aware that it's OK to use passive cooling when gaming. My primary concern are the edge cases where the game utilizes the GPU just enough to cause the fans to turn on, but then they turn off quickly after and repeat over and over again. I just want to avoid that specific scenario. Later on I'll probably turn the fans off completely and then set MSI afterburner to update every 100ms, then I'll put the GPU through some sort of 3D load, like the tool in GPU-Z. Just to see how quickly the temperatures rise when the fans aren't spinning at all. The idea being that i'll be able to see the maximum time you would want to use for the fan update speed in MSI Afterburner. If the GPU goes from 45C to 70C in 10 seconds, then that is too high of a value for the fan update timer. I'd feel more comfortable setting the fans to start at 55C with a 10 second update timer once I have that info. So for now I have them start at 45C I think, which is 10C below the Bios setup.
post edited by danyulcohen - 2018/12/21 14:11:16
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/21 16:51:52
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danyulcohen Yeah, I'm using hysteresis...
My apologies--I didn't read closely enough and thought you were still having issues with the rapid start/stop alternation. I've only ever used stepped mode, but you are right about linear mode. In fact, as a matter of good UI design, hysteresis should just be "greyed out" when in that mode, as there are no discrete trigger points, and the concept of hysteresis only applies to discrete trigger points. danyulcohen While doing this I used some canned air to cause my CPU heatsink fan to rotate. I noticed the exact same noise that the EVGA fans make from my CPU cooler fan. It just wasn't as loud. Also it only happens once when the PC is first powered on so it's not something you can hear unless you don't have any case fans. It was the exact same sound the EVGA fans make. I'd never heard it before yesterday. It's a Cryorig H7 cooler with the original fan on it. I was surprised to hear the noise when I used the compressed air to spin the fan. I'd never heard it before and I built this computer in March of 2016.
It seems like it would have to be relatively loud to be heard over the noise of the compressed air. But this is good information, as it would seem to indicate that it is a purely mechanical issue, in line with the bearing theory, and not dependent on the PCM signal or application of current, etc. danyulcohen Later on I'll probably turn the fans off completely and then set MSI afterburner to update every 100ms, then I'll put the GPU through some sort of 3D load, like the tool in GPU-Z. Just to see how quickly the temperatures rise when the fans aren't spinning at all. The idea being that i'll be able to see the maximum time you would want to use for the fan update speed in MSI Afterburner. If the GPU goes from 45C to 70C in 10 seconds, then that is too high of a value for the fan update timer.
I would be interested in your results if you get a chance to post them here.
post edited by Flonkam - 2018/12/21 16:54:28
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KaptCrunch
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/23 11:34:59
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note: never spin a fan with air for it becomes a wind generator, I've done this with a laptop CPU cooler (5v) after cleaning got a flash bios screen then blank screen. Took out fan controller, checked with voltmeter after seen it reached 47 VDC, 9.4 times over rated voltage if need to do that hold fan from spinning or unplug it to protect fan circuit
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Unknown-Two
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/26 22:39:33
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I had this same problem on my RTX 2070 XC Ultra. It ended up being due to the fan wire being poorly routed. A single well-placed zip tie took up the slack in the wire, and kept it from hitting the fan blades.
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RobyF1
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/27 00:39:27
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Problem solved thanks to this suggestion. Now the temperature is 47 ° and the fans remain still. Thanks a lot.
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RobyF1
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/27 00:41:31
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Problem solved thanks to this suggestion. Now the temperature is 47 ° and the fans remain still. Thanks a lot. noon22c Hello, reporting some of my new findings. My GPU is 2070 XC Ultra. I think I got rid of the clicking issue. I changed the "Power management mode" to "Optimal power" (had "Pref. max. perf." from the previous card) in the Nvidia control panel and disabled Windows fast startup. Now when idle the GPU clock stays around 300-400mhz and the temp is around 38-40C, fans are off. This is when Precision X1 is not started/used. Tested in Fallout4 for about 5 min., GPU clock was ~1900mhz, temp was around 60C, GPU usage 80-98%. After exiting the game, the clock is back to 300-400mhz, temp 45C (slowly going down), fans are off. No clicking anymore. Looks like the important setting is to have the "Power management mode" set to "Optimal power" as before the card was set at 1410, running at 55C and fans were clicking when idle. Now the card properly downclocks itself thus not having the fans constantly trying to start and stop. I think the card expects to be at the lower clock when idle. If it is at the default/high clock (1410 with my card) it gets confused and we see the fans turn on/off every five seconds producing annoying sounds. Hopefully this is how it is going to be. I'll be observing how the card behaves for the next few days without Precision X1 loaded. If the "Optimal power" setting is the only thing I have to change in order to get rid of clicking, this is totally fine with me and I'll be keeping the card. I'm planning to use Precision X1 in the future and have the fans custom curves enabled but still wanted to make sure that the card can function properly with just Nvidia driver and nothing else. Will report here if case something changes and/or the clicking comes back.
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/27 11:39:23
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Unknown-Two I had this same problem on my RTX 2070 XC Ultra. It ended up being due to the fan wire being poorly routed. A single well-placed zip tie took up the slack in the wire, and kept it from hitting the fan blades.
There are many people who have discovered this issue so far, and likely many with the same problem who sent a card (or 2 or 3?) back, and probably some who don't think this is the issue when it actually is. Lol....this is like a jet airliner with meticulously designed engine, electrical, and control systems.......and seats that don't stay in the correct position.
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Unknown-Two
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/27 19:39:35
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FlonkamThere are many people who have discovered this issue so far, and likely many with the same problem who sent a card (or 2 or 3?) back, and probably some who don't think this is the issue when it actually is. Lol....this is like a jet airliner with meticulously designed engine, electrical, and control systems.......and seats that don't stay in the correct position. Yeah, it's pretty shoddy design on EVGAs part, but I've kinda' come to expect that of them when it comes to VGA coolers. At least this one was an easy fix. One more zip tie and it's good to go.
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crimsonradio
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 08:20:58
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I fixed my ticking clicking. Was the fan 2 wire resting against the heat sink. Wire shows ware from fan at low rpm.
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4790K
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 11:20:25
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were the fans constantly clicking or only when they spin up from a stop?
Benütze diesen Code um 5% beim Kauf einer GPU und Anderem zu sparen! 58UK6COGZQEYSLA
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crimsonradio
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 14:43:58
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Mine, yes. Once they constant spin, it’s quiet. I tried posting a pick of the exact wire and ware spots but it’s not showing.
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crimsonradio
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 14:46:31
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As soon as they would spin from a stop. You would hear it. Now that I have fixed the Thick wire from rubbing, I can hear the back twisted wire (much quieter) slight scrape. I can see the rub spots but other than super glue or goop, I’m not sure how to keep the out of the way.
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crimsonradio
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 14:49:38
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Considering how loud the other ticking was, this slight scrap noise on the smaller, twisted wire is much easier to live with... would still prefer silent though. Here is the photo. The arrow is what I fixed to solve the louder ticking but the twisted one behind it is still scraping. You can see the ware marks.
Attached Image(s)
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 15:12:30
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crimsonradio Mine, yes. Once they constant spin, it’s quiet.
Here's what I posted four weeks ago: "So if the fan is hitting against wires, why does it only do it briefly?" Because once the fan spins up, the air pressure keeps the wires away from the blades." [Emphasis added] Man, did Flonkam get a lot of abuse for challenging the experts with his obstruction agenda.
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crimsonradio
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/28 16:15:19
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Exactly. Now it’s just figuring out the cleanest way to keeping the twisted wire away from the fans. May have to re zip-tie and run the wire tighter. For now I’ll live with it but if things get louder, I’ll have to gut it. Rather do that than RMA. Just to end up with the same exact issue.
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4790K
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/29 04:20:38
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Not sure about this bro. I have been checking my Card yesterday and pressed down some of the twisted wires you mentioned to give them some more space but i dont have an improvement regarding this fan start up clicking/rattling. I also cant see any wear on the cables. When i got some time this weekend i will take the card apart and see if i can even push them down a little more.
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Flonkam
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Re: 2080 TI XC Ultra fan clicking noise
2018/12/29 11:35:38
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4790K Not sure about this bro. I have been checking my Card yesterday and pressed down some of the twisted wires you mentioned to give them some more space but i dont have an improvement regarding this fan start up clicking/rattling. I also cant see any wear on the cables.There still seems to be a possible issue with the type of bearings used in the new models, or some other issue intrinsic to the motors, which can cause a noise at start-up. But the noise would not be the same--I'm pretty sure that it is more subtle, and more "raspy" or "growly" in nature. The issue is that a lot of people have verified the location of an obstruction as causing noise at start-up (and possibly at spin-down as well). These sounds can be--and have been--confused for each other by some people, and of course it's entirely possible that a card can have both issues. The way the fan wires are routed seems to be a design flaw, and so it can be expected that this issue may affect a significant number of cards--and due to the nature of the issue, it is entirely possible that an obstruction does not manifest until some point in the future, due to movement via mechanical, inertial, or thermal means.
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