Arctucas
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 10:57:44
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Gigabyte use AMI BIOS, correct?
So, is the BIOS used determined by the motherboard?
In other words, is there a reason that eVGA uses Award rather than AMI?
Is it contractual or is it because of design and/or engineering reasons?
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 11:56:39
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Arctucas
Gigabyte use AMI BIOS, correct?
So, is the BIOS used determined by the motherboard?
In other words, is there a reason that eVGA uses Award rather than AMI?
Is it contractual or is it because of design and/or engineering reasons?
No, no, no, this is wrong. *Gigabyte uses Award BIOS as well*, just appears to be a newer Award BIOS than the one EVGA is using. EVGA_JacobF
henryvits
I also believe they have to completely rewrite the BIOS at this point. By the way, Gigabyte is not the only manufacturer that managed to include updated RAID ROMs in their BIOS. Almost every other motherboard manufacturer has been able to do this, some later than others, of course. Gigabyte BIOSes have always been easily editable with CBROM. If EVGA comes out with an updated BIOS, we wouldn't have to rely on them providing newer ROMs after that. It's basically a one-time thing for them. After that, we can mod our own BIOSes again.
Any other manufactures that are also on Award BIOS?
Also we are still working on this directly with Award, we managed to make some progress, but hit another roadblock so we are now in talks with Intel RAID team.
Aside from Gigabyte and EVGA, I am not sure. Asus, ASRock, MSI are all on AMIBIOS as far as I know. Notwithstanding that, I cannot understand why Award cannot just provide you with an implementation/version of the BIOS that Gigabyte is using. The have no issues what so ever running any of the larger ROMs. This is not a "far-out" suggestion either. It is perfectly sound and reasonable. I would agree that it is a "compatibility issue", but the issue I do not think stems from the RAID ROM, rather the BIOS itself. The same RAID ROM works with basically every BIOS out there (Award or AMI) as long as that BIOS is not an older Award BIOS like the one used on the EVGA boards. I don't think Intel's going to be providing you with any sort of fix on this...
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MvdL79
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:07:35
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Sounds like it's game over, especially when the ball is Intel's courtyard.
EVGA used to be a great company (I've been a customer since early 2005). But after 2017 it went completely downhill. EVGA doesn't treat customers as customers, but as complete idiots! I used to own over 30 EVGA products (videocards, motherboards, PSU's and so on). Not anymore. #evga #pathetic
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:09:22
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MvdL79
Sounds like it's game over, especially when the ball is Intel's courtyard.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the "compatibility problem" and "Intel" statements...I realize that collaboration needs to take place but somehow I am not expecting Intel being so "helpful".
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Arctucas
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:33:13
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Right, I was going from memory when I used Gigabyte. OK, then it is a design/engineering issue? Or, it is a contractual issue? I actually have no issues with RAID or AHCI on my 770 using either 77 or 78. But, if there are performance improvements to be had from updating the various ROMs, well then...
post edited by Arctucas - 2011/02/24 12:35:16
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:50:44
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Arctucas
Right, I was going from memory when I used Gigabyte.
OK, then it is a design/engineering issue?
Or, it is a contractual issue?
I actually have no issues with RAID or AHCI on my 770 using either 77 or 78.
But, if there are performance improvements to be had from updating the various ROMs, well then...
Based on reports from others, performance & stability can both be obtained with newer ROMs. As far as what is the issue blocking progress...I have no idea...I think that it is cost. EVGA probably outsources the BIOS development, and rewriting a BIOS to use the newer one as Gigabyte is using is a cost that they are not willing to absorb. However, they can push for fixes for existing BIOS probably on some sort of maintenance agreement. This is just my speculation, but I do not think that it is so far off...
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kingofsorrow
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:56:00
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I was about to post that they should outsource it to you, dejanh  lol
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Arctucas
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:57:53
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I suppose that until eVGA decides to be more forthcoming regarding the real underlying issues/causes, it is all speculation?
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 12:58:32
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Arctucas
I suppose that until eVGA decides to be more forthcoming regarding the real underlying issues/causes, it is all speculation?
Ditto 
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jasonanderson
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 13:05:00
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zalbard
See this.
Thank you for the clarification. I wonder if my E758 board will encounter this as I overclock it. I am doing that today. I will have to test Speedstep once I get a stable OC. Since I have an unlocked multiplier I am trying to get a stable OC with a BCLK of 160 and see how much I can do with the multiplier. So, if the issue only happens with a very high BCLK then maybe I won't have the issue. The E758 used to have an issue resuming from S3 sleep with high BCLK's as well. So, I am trying to keep to the 160 range.
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jasonanderson
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 13:28:07
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EVGA_JacobF
henryvits
I also believe they have to completely rewrite the BIOS at this point. By the way, Gigabyte is not the only manufacturer that managed to include updated RAID ROMs in their BIOS. Almost every other motherboard manufacturer has been able to do this, some later than others, of course. Gigabyte BIOSes have always been easily editable with CBROM. If EVGA comes out with an updated BIOS, we wouldn't have to rely on them providing newer ROMs after that. It's basically a one-time thing for them. After that, we can mod our own BIOSes again.
Any other manufactures that are also on Award BIOS?
Also we are still working on this directly with Award, we managed to make some progress, but hit another roadblock so we are now in talks with Intel RAID team.
Jacob, your responses in here was one of the reasons I decided not to defect to Gigabyte or Asus. Thanks for your updates. I am OC'ing my 980X on my old E758 board as I type this and already seem to have gotten a stable 160x23 with a Vcore of 1.2. Heck, maybe there is no need for me to bump up to an E770. But, I would like to be able to space my GPUs out and keep x16/x16. Do you think if you all are able to get the newer Intel RAID ROM in the BIOS that it might help my issue where I could not get a stable RAID 0 for my C300 SSDs? [Covered in this thread] I am having to run my SSDs standalone due to that issue. It is still an improvement over my HDDs, but I would love to RAID them.
CPU: i7 5930K, 4.5 (125x36) with Corsair H100i | MB: Asus Rampage V Extreme (1401 Bios) | GPU: 2x EVGA GTX 980 SC ACX 2.0 | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB DDR4 2666MHz (4x8GB) | Storage: Crucial MX100 512 GB SSD (OS & Apps), 2 Seagate 1TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G (Data - RAID 1) | PSU: Corsair HX1000W | Chassis: Cooler Master HAF X | OS: Win 8.1 Pro x64
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 13:39:41
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jasonanderson
EVGA_JacobF
henryvits
I also believe they have to completely rewrite the BIOS at this point. By the way, Gigabyte is not the only manufacturer that managed to include updated RAID ROMs in their BIOS. Almost every other motherboard manufacturer has been able to do this, some later than others, of course. Gigabyte BIOSes have always been easily editable with CBROM. If EVGA comes out with an updated BIOS, we wouldn't have to rely on them providing newer ROMs after that. It's basically a one-time thing for them. After that, we can mod our own BIOSes again.
Any other manufactures that are also on Award BIOS?
Also we are still working on this directly with Award, we managed to make some progress, but hit another roadblock so we are now in talks with Intel RAID team.
Jacob, your responses in here was one of the reasons I decided not to defect to Gigabyte or Asus. Thanks for your updates. I am OC'ing my 980X on my old E758 board as I type this and already seem to have gotten a stable 160x23 with a Vcore of 1.2. Heck, maybe there is no need for me to bump up to an E770. But, I would like to be able to space my GPUs out and keep x16/x16.
Do you think if you all are able to get the newer Intel RAID ROM in the BIOS that it might help my issue where I could not get a stable RAID 0 for my C300 SSDs? [Covered in this thread] I am having to run my SSDs standalone due to that issue. It is still an improvement over my HDDs, but I would love to RAID them.
That is one of the exact reasons why we need the new ROM. You are not alone in this boat either. People RAIDing Vertex 2 on 8.0.x.x ROM had stability issues as well that already improved with 8.5.x.x. Improvements must be significant with ROMs that are two full versions newer.
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lradunovic
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 15:41:50
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That's why i went with Intel SSDs zero problems. Slap Intel to Intel way to go.
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mipko
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 15:49:59
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+1
I had terrible performance drops with Kingston V+ v2 in RAID 0 when copying to RAID 0 stripe.
I appreciate Jacob's efforts but those answers are scary to me.
One thing I don't understand from JacobF statement is what is incompatible ? AWARD BIOS is not compatible with what ?
Is it EVGA board design broken and not compatible with EVGA BIOS :) ?
This looks so badly broken at EVGA side that it makes me sad and I think this is not going to end up good.
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 16:19:24
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lradunovic
That's why i went with Intel SSDs zero problems. Slap Intel to Intel way to go.
While that may be true, you will not see me with an Intel SSD any time in the near future. Terrible $/performance ratio and inferior controllers are just not that appealing. mipko
+1
I had terrible performance drops with Kingston V+ v2 in RAID 0 when copying to RAID 0 stripe.
I appreciate Jacob's efforts but those answers are scary to me.
One thing I don't understand from JacobF statement is what is incompatible ? AWARD BIOS is not compatible with what ?
Is it EVGA board design broken and not compatible with EVGA BIOS :) ?
This looks so badly broken at EVGA side that it makes me sad and I think this is not going to end up good.
They are a bit scary. I am not going to lie. I always have that little warning bell go off in my head whenever I hear "compatibility problems" and "Intel", as I already stated earlier This version of the BIOS is not compatible with Intel's newer RAID option ROMs. That was already established and that is what Jacob means. The board is fine, and if we could simply rewrite the BIOS to use the same base as Gigabyte BIOS there would be no issues. However, a complete BIOS rewrite costs money and I doubt it will be happening, which leaves us the option of either they fix it with the current BIOS or we'll get the "sorry but it cannot be done due to compatibility reasons" rhetoric. Just my $0.02. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed by my hope is slowly dwindling.
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mipko
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 16:26:38
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Thanks Dejan,
BIOS rewrite is much cheaper than loosing reputation.
After all this inputs I'm convinced that LSI was right when I asked why 9240-8i does not work on E760. The LSI answered that it was EVGA BIOS being problem. I thought poor LSI are you aware that you are talking about EVGA ?!
Damn it looks so bad at the moment that makes me feel bad...
i7 920 @3.6GHz w/HT Megahalems NFP-14 push/pull 12GB Mushkin Redline 1600MHz (7-7-6-18-1) @ 1.53V EVGA E760 2 x EVGA GTX 580 + EVGA GTX 285 Classified 2 x Kingston SSD SNVP325-S2/128 - RAID 0 ASUS Xonar Essence STX + AKG K272 Lian Li 2120 Antec HCP 1200
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zalbard
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 16:26:58
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Well, it's cheaper to keep your current customers (and image) than to get new ones... That's a pretty basic thing... So I'm sure we'll see a solution in some shape or form.
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 16:29:59
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zalbard
Well, it's cheaper to keep your current customers (and image) than to get new ones... That's a pretty basic thing... So I'm sure we'll see a solution in some shape or form.
If we see a solution, I think it will be a bombshell It may just fix most/all storage related problems to date with these boards and who knows what kind of positive benefits it may bring for performance! I'm excited just thinking about it 
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Crusheddream
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 17:17:03
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Honestly if they were to competely rewrite the BIOS and fix all these issues that would be something worth waiting for. I also believe at this point thats is about their only option would be to rewrite them. So hopefully Evga hears us and does something about it. Would like to see the ROM update. At this point though i don't have too many issues with my classified3 my 950 OCed pretty easy to 3.83ghz with HT on.
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Topboy007
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 18:23:07
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If indeed these issues do not get resolved then eVGA have written a bios that is not fit for purpose and SHOULD refund any customer that requests a refund.
If however eVGA DO fix these issues then they will be restored as the best of the best and I will be the first to sing them praise across the web.
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aglyc
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/24 18:33:17
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Well i had a problem with RAM s i have Patriot 12gb kit 1333 hz!
and i tried almost everything voltage increacing and etc.. nothing worked . flashed to this version of bios and worked but suddenly USB ports stoped working!!!!!!!!!! MB is 141-BL-E760-A1 EVGA X58 SLI Classified.. reseted still nothing HELP EVGA!!
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Digital_trans
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/25 03:28:03
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Will this bios support my motherboard model: E70 X58 Classified?
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zalbard
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/25 08:16:10
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A BIOS testing suite from Intel to determine how well your BIOS works with your hardware: http://biosbits.org/ I think it can tell us if it works incorrectly with HPET and C6, undervolting in idle, and some other stuff...
post edited by zalbard - 2011/02/25 08:18:50
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HRPuffnstuff
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/25 09:00:12
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zalbard
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/25 21:18:35
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A BIOS testing suite from Intel to determine how well your BIOS works with your hardware: http://biosbits.org/
I think it can tell us if it works incorrectly with HPET and C6, undervolting in idle, and some other stuff... Well, nobody wants to try this out, it seems. I gave it a go. My results using BIOS 76 (results should be identical to 77 and 78) for E762: 1. MSR Consistency Test Suite (MSR 0xe2 Consistent): FAIL (MSR 0x199 Consistent): FAIL Summary: 8169 passed, 2 failed. 2. Power Management Test Suite: BUS Master Disable: FAIL C1 Auto Demotion Enable: FAIL // looks like here are our issues with high DPC and ISR latencies C3 Auto Demotion Enable: FAIL // and also undervolting in idle IO MWAIT Redirection Enable: FAIL IO Capture C-State Range Consistent: FAIL Summary: 6 passed, 5 failed. 3. SMRR Test Suite: Summary: 6 passed, 0 failed. Jacob, you might want to take a look at this. It clearly indicates that some stuff is quite messed up... Perhaps you should forward this data to your BIOS guys. Meanwhile I encourage other members to run the same tests so we have more data to forward to our BIOS team.
post edited by zalbard - 2011/02/26 06:20:33
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Luigi408
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/25 23:59:52
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zalbard
A BIOS testing suite from Intel to determine how well your BIOS works with your hardware: http://biosbits.org/
I think it can tell us if it works incorrectly with HPET and C6, undervolting in idle, and some other stuff...
Well, nobody want to try this out, it seems. I gave it a go.
My results using BIOS 76 (results should be identical to 77 and 78) for E762:
1. MSR Consistency Test Suite
(MSR 0xe2 Consistent): FAIL
(MSR 0x199 Consistent): FAIL
Summary: 8169 passed, 2 failed.
2. Power Management Test Suite:
BUS Master Disable: FAIL
C1 Auto Demotion Enable: FAIL // looks like here are our issues with high DPC and ISR latencies
C3 Auto Demotion Enable: FAIL // and also undervolting in idle
IO MWAIT Redirection Enable: FAIL
IO Capture C-State Range Consistent: FAIL
Summary: 6 passed, 5 failed.
3. SMRR Test Suite:
Summary: 6 passed, 0 failed.
Jacob, you might want to take a look at this. It clearly indicates that some stuff is quite messed up... Perhaps you should forward this data to your BIOS guys.
Meanwhile I encourage other members to run the same tests so we have more data to forward to our BIOS team.
Email Jocob this test you did. He might not check every post here so I suggest emailing him too. He is good at answering email from customers, probably better than when people post it here. Might as well try both to get his attention. Good find btw.
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zalbard
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/26 07:45:25
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More testing with this suite...
4. Detect SMI frequency and latency
<skipping some stuff>
Summary of impact: observed maximum latency = 353 us.
Risk of OS timeouts exists with this observed latency (ideal < 150 us).
5. C-state exploration: residency and latency
*MWAIT C-States
MWAIT C1 is supported
MWAIT C1E is supported
MWAIT *C2 is supported
MWAIT *C3 is supported
MWAIT *C4 is NOT supported // this is done on stock with default BIOS settings
MWAIT *C5 is NOT supported // I specifically enabled C6 in BIOS
MWAIT *C6 is NOT supported // is this normal??? is this why C6 causes additional DPC & ISR Latency (see #4)?
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dejanh
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/26 10:03:56
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I ran these tests...to be honest I am 50/50 on the usefulness of the results. Just as an example I have seen C6 working before but the tool reports that it is not. It's a good find, but I'm a little skeptical as to the usefulness for us.
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rafale
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/26 12:01:32
(permalink)
So I've decided to order a competitors board which has AMI Bios to replace my classified for testing. The lack of response and support from eVGA is stunning. I have to say I am a bit disappointed. I will see how the other board does before switching completely...
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Alucard666
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Re:EVGA X58 Motherboards - BIOS 78 Released
2011/02/26 13:13:44
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rafale
So I've decided to order a competitors board which has AMI Bios to replace my classified for testing. The lack of response and support from eVGA is stunning. I have to say I am a bit disappointed. I will see how the other board does before switching completely...
I agree...Evga should clean up their act, however I feel that sometimes the Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't... at least with Evga you get a community filled with knowledgeable helpful people who are willing to help, and their tech support is still some of the best, I guess they're just going through a recent rough patch.
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