Squeezit
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(I also posted this on toms hardware)
So I'm fairly familiar with computers, but this has me stumped.
I've brought this to other IT people and they've been stumped. I've gone to r/techsupport r/overclocking and r/gpumining and never been able to get an answer (though people did attempt to help).
Here's my issue, please see my benchmark scores:
Now this issue started on my old pc. I noticed my 3090 started performing...worse. (I don't know how much crypto mining is enjoyed / hated here, but that's where I first noticed it).
Running a couple benchmarks confirmed it as well as my gaming performance had dropped. I never push it very hard while mining, but usually hit 110mh. Now I hit 90 - 95mh which is the same as a 3080.
So I was already planning on building a new PC. So once my new pc was built, I noticed that my benchmark scores were still bad.
Assumed my GPU must be bad, contacted EVGA whom sent me a new 3090 to replace mine. Day 1 scores are the good scores from the above posted link.
The other 2 scores are a few days after. No crypto mining has been done on this card up to that point. No overclocking, everything was default in all of those benchmark tests.
I've also tried leaving it turned off for a whole day, then immediately doing a benchmark test to see if it just had issues running for long periods.
My current PC specs are shown in the 3dmark test but just for reference:
z590 taichi
11900k (I know)
evga ftw3 ultra 3090
CPU is water cooled, GPU is air cooled.
While running benchmark / crypto mine, GPUz and hwinfo both show no throttling,
My temperatures never hit any crazy numbers (I don't have anything written down unfortunately, I'll try and watch it again next time I test).
I'm at a complete loss at this point. A completely brand new computer doesn't resolve it. I thought maybe it was my power supply since I salvaged only that and my ram from my previous PC. Replaced the PSU today but still no success.
Anyone have any other tips for me? Thanks in advance
After vBIOS update from evga:
(basically no difference)
I don't know if it will help anyone because I do not have a before/after score. But here's my user benchmark as well:
Now I don't really care how it performs while mining crypto. I only do that when its idle. I'm only including it in case the extra information helps. What I'm mostly concerned about is its gaming performance.
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 05:47:54
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What PSU? What HWiNFO memory junction and GPU hotspot temps under load? Is the card operating at pcie 16x or at 8X Gen 3 for some reason. XMP ok? What are the GPU clocks doing? Your links don't come through because of your low post count. Share your reddit username if you're comfortable. As a side note I like the 11900K and seriously considered getting one but can't justify it.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/24 05:50:13
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arcanexvi
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 05:54:45
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Yeah, a GPUZ shot under full load would be useful. If it's a early 3090 FTW3 Ultra there's a design issue where it'll draw too much power from the PCIe slot and power limit itself and have frankly poor performance compared to other 3090s. Mine's currently being RMA'd and the new revisions to the card are supposed to be much better ability to take advantage of the available power.
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 10:35:20
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arcanexvi
Yeah, a GPUZ shot under full load would be useful. If it's a early 3090 FTW3 Ultra there's a design issue where it'll draw too much power from the PCIe slot and power limit itself and have frankly poor performance compared to other 3090s. Mine's currently being RMA'd and the new revisions to the card are supposed to be much better ability to take advantage of the available power.
One of the easiest ways to put it under full load is crypto mining. If I should do a stress test instead, let me know. Here's GPUz and hwinfo:  kevinc313
What PSU? What HWiNFO memory junction and GPU hotspot temps under load? Is the card operating at pcie 16x or at 8X Gen 3 for some reason. XMP ok? What are the GPU clocks doing?
Your links don't come through because of your low post count. Share your reddit username if you're comfortable.
As a side note I like the 11900K and seriously considered getting one but can't justify it.
For the image just add Fiupo1X to the end of the imgur url (imgur dot com/Fiupo1X) The PSU is the Evga supernova G5 1000w. It "should" be operating at pcie 16x As to the 11900k, I honestly should have gone AMD this time around, but for whatever reason I think their Mobo's are ugly compared to Intel. But if I knew the performance ahead of time, I probably would have just gone with the 10900k Update: According to GPUz my gpu is using bus interface PCIe x16 4.0
post edited by Squeezit - 2021/04/24 10:47:44
Attached Image(s)
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 12:02:17
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Here is your imgur link: https://imgur.com/Fiupo1X The 1000w G5 is one of the most problematic and poorly reviewed 'high end' psu's on the market. But the problems you're having aren't what people usually describe. Don't feel bad about the 11900K, it's the fastest 8-core out there, has tons of PCIe bandwidth, OC's ok, has very good memory support and it's Intel. And you actually have it.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/24 12:25:19
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 12:15:04
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Reviewing the logs.... - What kind of memory OC on the card (+1000?), reading looks kinda high but I don't know what a 3090 reads at stock. My 3080 says 2,375 mhz. - Memory junction temp is just right at the limit. I'd make sure the back of the card is getting plenty of fresh air and maybe get a fan blowing directly on it. - Your input powers seem to have the classic pcie slot vs. connector #3 imbalance, where your slot is around 70w or higher while #3 is very low compared to #1 and #2. Supposedly it is better to have about 50W on the slot and #3 around what the other two do.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/24 12:24:18
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 12:33:40
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kevinc313
Reviewing the logs....
- Check your PCIe link, looks like you're at 8x Gen 4 or 16x Gen 3
Gpuz shows me at pcie x16 4.0 @x16 4.0
- What kind of memory OC on the card (+1000?), reading looks kinda high but I don't know what a 3090 reads at stock. My 3080 says 2,375 mhz.
Here's another imgur link /a/38fLxb0 (thanks for adding my last one for me) with lower temps. 2nd image is still 1000mhz but I grabbed it before temps went up
- Memory junction temp is just right at the limit. I'd make sure the back of the card is getting plenty of fresh air and maybe get a fan blowing directly on it.
So this was a bad example, but usually I run memory around 700 which keeps it USUALLY around 96 - 102c. Shouldn't start throttling until around 110c. Also the card still throttles on stock settings while gaming. I haven't been pushing it hard as I'm waiting for some better fans to arrive on Tuesday. 3rd pic is stock settings. No OC. While gaming, my temps never get nearly as high, but its not as easy for me to get these screenshots while gaming / stress testing. I don't know how much it matters, but my sensor readings between gpuz and hwinfo are completely different. My friends are the same. Idk :/
post edited by Squeezit - 2021/04/24 12:41:19
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 13:02:29
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I would point to the G5 and slot/plug power imbalance as both being suspicious. https://imgur.com/a/38fLxb0 I've never seen anyone hit a 112C mem temp max. Back plate fan and check the thread about backside cooling.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/24 13:06:17
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squeezitgirdle
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 13:12:25
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Yeah, I opened up my first one and saw the back thermal pads they used were actually pretty good.
I don't think I've ever hit 112 before, this was a first for me (that I've noticed).
But I can say with certainty that my thermals aren't the cause of my issue as I've definitely been getting bad scores / hashrate even at low temps
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 13:56:55
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squeezitgirdle
Yeah, I opened up my first one and saw the back thermal pads they used were actually pretty good.
I don't think I've ever hit 112 before, this was a first for me (that I've noticed).
But I can say with certainty that my thermals aren't the cause of my issue as I've definitely been getting bad scores / hashrate even at low temps
When you refer to throttling, can you be more specific? There's the normal Boost 4.0 behavior where it can pull out 15 mhz for every 6-7C bin above like 30C, and then even more based on various other mysterious factors. Then there's power limit throttling where it may cut boost because you are hitting PL too hard. Then there's temp limit throttling where it pulls out power because the card is hitting either the set thermal limit or other sensor limits (junction etc).
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 14:28:07
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I didn't notice it before, but your power readings seem out of whack. Somebody with a healthy card will have to run the same load and give you something to compare. https://www.techpowerup.c...a-rtx3090-24576-201008 - 100% power is 420w on the 3090 FTW3, all bios. You're at 364.2w max with 93.4% TDP, making the 100% be 387.5w (390w). I'd check your bios readout in GPU-z and see what that says. Might be pointing towards the plug #3/slot imbalance problem. - There's a big gap between normalized and straight power, like 15%, not sure if its like that on 3090's but it's about 5-7% usually on my 3080. - You're hitting Power, Utilization performance limits which is normal, but it's not normal to hit thermal performance limit. But this was probably when you hit the 112C mem. - Your FBVDD power seems really high but core powers seem low. Maybe has to do with the mining load, but I found this: https://www.overclock.net...page-218#post-28667642
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/24 14:33:08
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HeavyHemi
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 15:01:03
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I think as a policy we should refuse any help to miners. Not only because of their HUGE negative impact on the GPU market, but the HUGE pure waste of electricity to generate nothing of tangible value, to keep a massive ponzi scheme afloat. There is nothing backing bitcoin but belief.
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squeezitgirdle
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 15:17:24
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kevinc313
When you refer to throttling, can you be more specific? There's the normal Boost 4.0 behavior where it can pull out 15 mhz for every 6-7C bin above like 30C, and then even more based on various other mysterious factors. Then there's power limit throttling where it may cut boost because you are hitting PL too hard. Then there's temp limit throttling where it pulls out power because the card is hitting either the set thermal limit or other sensor limits (junction etc).
So according to gpuz and hwinfo I'm not throttling. But I'm definitely under performing. So I mean that my fps is severely dropped in games and my hashrate is about 15% lower than it should be
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squeezitgirdle
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 15:20:23
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HeavyHemi
I think as a policy we should refuse any help to miners. Not only because of their HUGE negative impact on the GPU market, but the HUGE pure waste of electricity to generate nothing of tangible value, to keep a massive ponzi scheme afloat. There is nothing backing bitcoin but belief.
As I stated before, I'm a gamer. I mine when I'm idle. I'm not going to get into moral ethics of gpu buying, but I do have solar on my home so I'm not actually wasting any electricity. I'm also not looking for support for mining, I'm just using the mining because it's easier to see the performance drop. @kevin I was suspicious that there was something wrong with my power readings, thanks for confirming. I've tried two power supplies though, but both were the evga g5. I'd hate to rewire the entire thing with a corsair psu but maybe that's for the best...
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rjbarker
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/24 23:05:19
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HeavyHemi
I think as a policy we should refuse any help to miners. Not only because of their HUGE negative impact on the GPU market, but the HUGE pure waste of electricity to generate nothing of tangible value, to keep a massive ponzi scheme afloat. There is nothing backing bitcoin but belief.
Agreed HH.....no benchmark scores noted here....just a notation to a Mining score....to OP..sorry man, but a LOT of folks here been waiting in a queue since Sept for a Card.....I'm sure you get it... Sounds like a power balancing issue....many of us with 3080 / 3090 are having this power balancing issue which is power limiting the Card...for example a 3080 w an XOC 450w BIOS but the Card can only reach 400w etc.....
post edited by rjbarker - 2021/04/24 23:08:20
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/25 00:07:30
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rjbarker
Agreed HH.....no benchmark scores noted here....just a notation to a Mining score....
I'm not sure what you mean, there have been a few mentions of benchmark scores. If it makes you feel any better, I paid way too much for this card anyways. Not from a scalper, but from Tiger Direct who felt it was ok to charge me an extra $200 over msrp plus a stupid high shipping fee. I have a 3080 that I got from the evga queue, but I'm thinking of moving back to it (assuming I don't run into the same issue since its the same model). I do buy GPU's, build PC's and sell them, but I sell them for a fair price. I only charge a builders fee which usually is around 100 - $150 This is intended to be my personal GPU since one of my clients backed out on the sale and I ended up with an extra 3090, but...well this issue really sucks. I don't really care about its hashrate, I care about its gaming performance. Why have a GPU that costs twice as much as one that's only 15% worse if it can't work properly.
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B0baganoosh
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 06:32:47
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Can you post an image (even if giving directions to the link due to post count) of the rest of your system information while you're gaming? I'm curious what your RAM is doing and CPU clocks while you're seeing an issue. Also, I've seen reported that the latest Nvidia driver, as well as one of the latest Windows updates, have been causing serious performance drops in various applications. I believe it is the 466 driver causing the problems for those folks. Just one thing to consider. The 11900k is actually a great performing CPU if you know how to run it and are comfortable with higher power limits. You said you're water-cooled and on a 1000W PSU, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. ScatterBencher has done a couple videos ( one and two) on overclocking the 11900k, as well as a feature description video that are very informational and might help you get the most out of it.
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Sajin
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 09:36:25
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safan80
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 11:32:03
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 11:36:28
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Sajin
Maybe this is the issue....
I considered that too, but the issue started on my old PC maybe a couple months ago? Anyways, based on what I'm reading from those pages, the resolution should have already been sent to me (my last update was the 23rd, maybe that's it?) and the issue hasn't gone away unfortunately. Nike_7688
Can you post an image (even if giving directions to the link due to post count) of the rest of your system information while you're gaming? I'm curious what your RAM is doing and CPU clocks while you're seeing an issue.
So I had hwinfo run a log while I was running a benchmark if you'd care to see it? Alternatively I did grab a screenshot of my memory from HWinfo for you. Of course I still can't post links, so if you add this to the end of an imgur (I added 2 images to the bottom): /a/38fLxb0 As to your comment about overclocking, I do intend to overclock. But before I can overclock I need everything to run stable on default settings.
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B0baganoosh
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 12:05:08
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Squeezit
Nike_7688
Can you post an image (even if giving directions to the link due to post count) of the rest of your system information while you're gaming? I'm curious what your RAM is doing and CPU clocks while you're seeing an issue.
So I had hwinfo run a log while I was running a benchmark if you'd care to see it?
Alternatively I did grab a screenshot of my memory from HWinfo for you. Of course I still can't post links, so if you add this to the end of an imgur (I added 2 images to the bottom): /a/38fLxb0
As to your comment about overclocking, I do intend to overclock. But before I can overclock I need everything to run stable on default settings.
I was looking for your memory clocks & timings (but also CPU clocks, the log file might show). I just saw temperatures and usage in your screenshots. Perhaps you could just share a picture of the memory tab on CPU-Z?
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 12:26:52
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Nike_7688
I was looking for your memory clocks & timings (but also CPU clocks, the log file might show). I just saw temperatures and usage in your screenshots. Perhaps you could just share a picture of the memory tab on CPU-Z?
I can download cpuz if needed, but before I do, did my hwinfo screenshot not cover the memory? I thought that was the memory timings section
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B0baganoosh
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 12:59:43
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 This image? I don't see memory clocks or timings there. Sorry...I see the "3600 MHz" on the right of your task manager window. That doesn't give timings, but if that's correct, it does cover one thing I was curious about. The main question there would be "is the memory running at the clock speed and timings it is supposed to be?" I have seen it happen where you update the bios and it loses XMP settings. That will cause quite a loss in performance. Also, the 11900k runs best with memory in gear 1 mode, unless you go up to like 4800+ MHz in gear 2 mode. at 3600 MHz, you should be in gear 1, but it may be worth checking. I know you had issues before you went to this PC, but if you had one issue in the old PC, and then this issue in the new one, it could explain a similar reduction in performance even if the cause was different in each system. At 3600, the motherboard should default to gear 1, so this is probably not it. Also, I gave information on the overclocks, as I'm not sure what your motherboard default values are for the power limits for the 11900k. The CPU clocks, if 25% utilized, I would think should be higher than 4.67GHz, but it depends on a few variables and I'm not sure if it's giving you the maximum core clock or some kind of average. I don't see the clocks/core info that HWiNFO should give in this screenshot (or any of the others). It should be in there, just somewhere else on the list. You simultaneously have some other little block at the bottom of the window showing 49°C and 4.9GHz. According to Intel, if you have ABT turned on in the bios (and limits set at 250W...AND stay under 70°...unless you change that setting in bios), you should have these clocks:  Basically, if you're water cooled, you should be able to set the 250W power limit and turn on ABT for free performance and that's before doing any kind of "overclocking". OK. so after saying all that, I will indicate that I don't have a 3090, and some of the users above (and that I've seen elsewhere on these forums) are indicating that your GPU-memory temperatures are too high. I have heard that mining on a 3090 (which has memory on the back-side of the card) creates way too much heat on the memory and you should really consider adding some cooling if you want to do that. Debadger84 has a thread with all kinds of information on that with things him and others have tried. I don't know about degradation that may have occurred, so if you're in that boat...I don't know what to tell you. I just know about some of the other items you have and wanted to try and help rule those out of the equation for you.
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 13:07:35
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Thank you Nike for all that info, I'm not particularly concerned with my mining ability on this card, as I don't really intend to do it all the time. Just occasionally while idle. The fact that I was running 30mh below normal is just something I noticed.
I do notice that my cpu temp while Idle is around 40 - 45c which I feel like is too high when I'm not really running anything (other than an animated wallpaper which I imagine would affect my gpu more than my cpu).
Air cooled gpu is 52c while semi-idle (wallpaper engine) at 12% load.
CPU clock is currently at 5100mhz while idle.
I haven't gotten rid of my old 3080 yet, and it looks like my new fans are arriving today. Before I put the new fans in, I'm going to test my 3080 (also a ftw3 ultra) and see how it compares to this 3090, if it also drops below what it should be hitting while aircooled.
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milkman76
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 14:02:02
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HeavyHemi
I think as a policy we should refuse any help to miners. Not only because of their HUGE negative impact on the GPU market, but the HUGE pure waste of electricity to generate nothing of tangible value, to keep a massive ponzi scheme afloat. There is nothing backing bitcoin but belief.
100%+++ Crypto mining and investing is 99% vapor, and a long term, expanding trap for small dollar investors. Nobody should be doing it, it is extremely environmentally unsustainable, and in the end it will look just like other exploited market sectors. It isnt 'disrupting' a damn thing other than millions of poor, idealistic people.
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 15:16:38
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milkman76
100%+++
Crypto mining and investing is 99% vapor, and a long term, expanding trap for small dollar investors. Nobody should be doing it, it is extremely environmentally unsustainable, and in the end it will look just like other exploited market sectors. It isnt 'disrupting' a damn thing other than millions of poor, idealistic people.
It's a good thing I'm not here for crypto then? I don't care what your opinions of crypto are, and while I COULD argue your points with my own that wouldn't serve the purpose of my post. If you don't want to help simply because I dabble with mining in my spare time, suit yourself. There's no reason to chime in with "boo I hate crypto, and I have unnecessary reasons for believing that they're the cause of the shortage".
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Clovis559
SSC Member
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 16:08:39
(permalink)
Squeezit
milkman76
100%+++
Crypto mining and investing is 99% vapor, and a long term, expanding trap for small dollar investors. Nobody should be doing it, it is extremely environmentally unsustainable, and in the end it will look just like other exploited market sectors. It isnt 'disrupting' a damn thing other than millions of poor, idealistic people.
It's a good thing I'm not here for crypto then? I don't care what your opinions of crypto are, and while I COULD argue your points with my own that wouldn't serve the purpose of my post.
If you don't want to help simply because I dabble with mining in my spare time, suit yourself. There's no reason to chime in with "boo I hate crypto, and I have unnecessary reasons for believing that they're the cause of the shortage".
Seems lately people are trying to get others to argue and get moderators involved. Hope you get this fixed Squeezeit, and look past those who are grumpy. I have a water chiller and at some point I might mine for a hour, just so I can see what temps it can crush, but I personally have no interest to mine long term. Just not my cheese. How hard would it be for me to setup some kind of mining.... thing, and would it matter what I mined Eth, Litecoin, bitcoin, would all minings be relatively the same temps?
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squeezitgirdle
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 16:14:01
(permalink)
I appreciate the support. If you're interested in trying it out, send me a private message and I can teach you. I'd rather not take this thread any further off topic.
Edit: looks like I can't do pm's until I have ten posts but that isn't too far off now.
Thanks!
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Squeezit
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 18:20:00
(permalink)
Sorry everyone for the double post, but I wanted to post some relevant information and not have it mixed up with the guy whining about crypto. I have added some images to the earlier imgur link I posted. I've tested with my old ftw3 ultra 3080 which looks to have the same issue. I have also tested with my brothers msi ventus 3080. Same issue repeats itself for gaming /benchmarks. So at the very least I am convinced that the issue is not the GPU, but either a software issue, or I have gotten two bad power supplies in a row. What I did notice, is hwinfo did occasionally say utilization was being throttled while benchmarking (added in the final image of my previous imgur link) Now that I'm at 10 posts, here's me trying to add the links for the msi 3080 3dmark benchmark: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/61075872?
user benchmark: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42450954images: https://imgur.com/a/38fLxb0
post edited by Squeezit - 2021/04/26 18:23:43
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kevinc313
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Re: ftw3 ultra 3090 performing about the same as a 3080
2021/04/26 19:46:45
(permalink)
Squeezit
Sorry everyone for the double post, but I wanted to post some relevant information and not have it mixed up with the guy whining about crypto.
I have added some images to the earlier imgur link I posted. I've tested with my old ftw3 ultra 3080 which looks to have the same issue.
I have also tested with my brothers msi ventus 3080.
Same issue repeats itself for gaming /benchmarks.
So at the very least I am convinced that the issue is not the GPU, but either a software issue, or I have gotten two bad power supplies in a row.
What I did notice, is hwinfo did occasionally say utilization was being throttled while benchmarking (added in the final image of my previous imgur link)
Now that I'm at 10 posts, here's me trying to add the links for the msi 3080
3dmark benchmark: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/61075872?
user benchmark: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/42450954
images: https://imgur.com/a/38fLxb0
Can you post you most recent 3090 FTW3 Port Royal run? That MSI run has sky high temps and low clocks. Here's my latest Port Royal after rebar bios install with normal high stability gaming OC and fans (hybrid), +90/+1000/118%: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/971710
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/04/26 20:50:05
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