Darkka
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 01:37:44
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I'm still in the mono block camp, however if we do go dual blocks, what do you think about doing what EKWB does with their chipset blocks and extend them up past the 1st PCI-E slot and have the inlet and outlet next to the CPU socket? Just a thought for those who might not have their gpu in the loop or possibly make loop management easier.
post edited by Darkka - 2016/02/04 01:44:38
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 06:30:40
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Darkka I'm still in the mono block camp, however if we do go dual blocks, what do you think about doing what EKWB does with their chipset blocks and extend them up past the 1st PCI-E slot and have the inlet and outlet next to the CPU socket? Just a thought for those who might not have their gpu in the loop or possibly make loop management easier.
There is 0.66" between the socket, and the retention clip of the PCI-E slot. My O-rings are 0.0625, so I would have that on both sides so that would bring that down to 0.535. Not saying its impossible, but everyone would have to use the same CPU block so I can ensure mass compatibility. There is 0.783" in between the CPU post and the PCI-E slot, so a 1/2" bitspower type fitting CAN fit in there, but depending on the CPU blocks used could render putting the inlets there would have to have the thinnest channels I have ever done. There would be considerable restriction. There is 0.986" in between the PCI-E, and the RAM slots. Also, if I had water passing over the motherboard hole, I couldnt use that hole for mounting, so it could only use the 2 holes by the south bridge. That would be a tremendous cantilever mount. Since motherboards tend not to move, there are ways around things, but generally I will discourage that particular design.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 06:56:06
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Philwong I vote for dual blocks. Will we've clearance issue for RAM blocks? Phil
I honestly dont know. what ram blocks are you thinking? I can design a mono block to take up ALL the space inbetween the ram for aesthetics (and room for any huge logo's) or minimize it for ram blocks. If you look in my render, you can see the 2 caps that flank the CPU. I was thinking about taking the mono block out to hide those caps.
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Darkka
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 08:25:59
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Fair enough nateman, in that case, that sounds a far too restrictive design and really not worth doing.
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 11:31:31
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I vote for monoblock too.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 14:58:22
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Incorporated a CPU block into it. Now comes the hard part, the sandwich plate to bring them all together.
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 16:32:35
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Can't wait to see the final product tbh :D On a side note, I have tried using some passive heatsink to cool the M.2 drive, but on Crystal Mark it still heats up for 61C. Do others get similar temps?
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 17:07:21
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deFiniLoGy Can't wait to see the final product tbh :D On a side note, I have tried using some passive heatsink to cool the M.2 drive, but on Crystal Mark it still heats up for 61C. Do others get similar temps?
The range is higher than that. Some SSDs can get to 90c+. I think they'll just throttle if they ever get that high anyways. Those temps you have shouldn't be too worry some.
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 17:54:14
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gtxjackbauer
deFiniLoGy Can't wait to see the final product tbh :D On a side note, I have tried using some passive heatsink to cool the M.2 drive, but on Crystal Mark it still heats up for 61C. Do others get similar temps?
The range is higher than that. Some SSDs can get to 90c+. I think they'll just throttle if they ever get that high anyways. Those temps you have shouldn't be too worry some.
What I'm concerned is with the block installed and GPU watercooled, the air flow to the M.2 slot will be greatly reduced. That will translate to a higher temperature of the M.2 drive
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 19:36:34
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sounds like i have to cool SSD. That is way too much heat for any component.
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 20:22:00
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I mean, if we were to go with a full cover waterblock, I don't think cooling the M.2 slot as well would add that much more cost and time right?
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 20:51:20
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The Z dimension right now is my enemy... so i really dont want to touch the SSD. I am merely stating that is "possible". The time is already racking up. I dont charge by the hour, I charge by the job. I do this for fun and the challenge. The sandwich block is shaping up nicely in CAD and its getting more complicated, but the mono block can be done.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 22:59:27
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After some exhausting CAD works here is a monoblock design. This is the sandwich portion that all the copper mates to: Its still not finished, but you guys get the idea. Here is a more top down look at more of the internals: Been at this most of the day and well into the wee hours of the night. Let me know what you guys think.
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 23:14:07
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I think it looks brilliant!!
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/04 23:26:51
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Small problem: What your looking at is the choke point of the design. The area between the ram slot, and the PCI-E slot. The beer math of cross sectional area follows: cross sectional area of a 0.5" ID pipe = 0.1963 (the target) 0.04 + 0.09 + 0.14 = 0.27 Channel depth @ 0.5" deep = 0.135 "tolerable" @ 0.72" deep = 0.1944 "ideal" So if I get the area in between the posts down to a depth of 0.72", were damn close to the ideal 1/2"ID pipe. Thats usually my target cross sectional area of all my projects. Something hit me as I was about to lay down and sleep. How to cut this. The circles are a 1/8" end mill. It wont even get in between the right 2 posts. It will get the lower one and lower wall. I dont know of any end mills that thin, and that long. The only solution I can come up at this point in the middle of the night is a similarly thick top to go on top of this block. That means a 2" thick solid block of Delrin. (thats without any type of vanity plate on top either) Pushing 3 am. eyes hurt. Must stop.
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anthony.yarlott
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 00:15:38
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Could you use a 1/16'th inch end mill? What rpm dose your mill go up to??
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 01:58:19
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its the depth of cut that is the problem. end mill geometry for small end mills usually only have a 1/8" shank size.
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 03:57:40
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deFiniLoGy What I'm concerned is with the block installed and GPU watercooled, the air flow to the M.2 slot will be greatly reduced. That will translate to a higher temperature of the M.2 drive
The hot air from your GPU's will cause overheating. Removing that hot air by watercooling may reduce the air flow over the m.2, but if you have positive pressure airflow, then your m.2 will be fine. Yes, they can get hot, but keep in mind they are meant to go in the back of laptop or into a tablet, and they don't have ANY airflow at all and get more abused as the only storage device. How can they survive in a laptop with zero airflow if they can't survive in between watetcooled GPU's? M.2's are not so bad that they overheat and die just because they are in a pc rather than a laptop. Having the m.2 covered by a piece of copper will extend the time and cost of having the block created, and i dont think it is going to do what you think. If you aren't Benchmarking the drive 100% of the time, your m.2 will be fine.
post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2016/02/05 04:30:33
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deFiniLoGy
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 06:11:25
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I'm pretty sure they survive by throttling the performance of the drive, and these are well documented in SM951 and 950 PRO drives under heavy load. I'm just raising one of the potential concern of the design, and I don't think a SSD needs a copper plate covering it nor will it be very practical due to the lack of mounting screw holes.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 07:37:53
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This is what I mean about end mill geometry. The purple bit is 1/64", and the mammoth gold bit is 1/16". The shaft diameter on both is 1/8". It was deep enough to get some depth, but not nearly the 0.72" needed. So in order to compensate we either have to accept the cross sectional area of roughly a 3/8" pipe, or go "outside the box" and go above it by adding more height to the slot. Since its such a short duration where the liquid will accelerate, I honestly think it will be fine. I will try and eat away some of the extrude, it just wont be deep. I will carry on my wayward sons...
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anthony.yarlott
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 09:53:24
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Yea you will run into a problem with depth of cut, they do make longer one's but your depth of cut with that bit and feed rate will be heavily reduced they have a 0.590 reach?? But I think 3/8 water channel would be fine. Looking good keep it up.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 10:18:34
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The sandwich (probably should call it manifold, but I am hungry so it will be called the sandwich block) is starting to look like it has the measles. Some of the holes are through holes - to pull the copper blocks into it, 4 are the CPU holes, and the rest are blind holes, which the top plate will screw into. Some of the tolerances are crazy, and since this is plastic i am screwing into, each hole will need a helicoil in it. Next pic should be the top plate (the one you will actually see) so the holes will be cut down some, but you see why I opted to make optional vanity plates for the stinger blocks. LOTS going on here.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 11:03:29
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This is the top plate. Still busy as hell, BUT the ones with the green counterbore are the only ones that are necessary. the other small holes without the counterbore hole (they will have a counterbore as well) are just to keep the edges of the block together. I can cut down on them. A vanity plate will go over the top of this and only have the 4 CPU block holes, and a much larger hole around each inlet to allow the fittings to sink below the vanity surface.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 12:17:20
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And finally, here is just the required screws to hold the plate down and waterproof the unit: here is what it would look like with a vanity plate: The holes in the vanity plate can me made to fit whatever fittings one has, and the CPU holes are what would keep it all together. I will start working on some prices, so shoot me a PM when you want that news.
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rebel2302
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 15:07:59
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That's one cool looking mono block! I like it.
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Scourge78
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/05 15:50:25
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rebel2302 I like the idea of a mono block. Any chance of making it with a clear acrylic top? would be cool to see the fluid after adding some LED in there to light stuff up in a case. M.2 looks cool but I agree it can be cooled with a few heatsinks itself.
+1 for a clear monoblock, and I do not need the M.2 cooled. Edit- it looks brilliant!
post edited by Scourge78 - 2016/02/05 15:55:58
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/06 12:38:11
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Shoot me an email for a price. I have a rough estimate as to the costs.
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nateman_doo
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/08 09:56:13
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I haven't been ignoring anyone's emails/PM's about the block, I have just still been brainstorming. I solved one problem, but noticed another one that will all but kill the monoblock design. If you look at the last picture I posted, you see how thick it is right? Remember I said Z is the enemy right? I perfected a design that works from the top down, but the minute you try to put a video card in the PCI-E slots, it will never work. The height of the area that cools the south chipset normally accepts 1/2" thick MAX. That has been my standard for years. 1/8" thick copper, and a 3/8" thick delrin topper. I would have to reduce the height of the area over the south, but if you look at the heights of the board, this will all come down to the sandwich block & the topper. There are different heights to take into account. I only have a 3 axis CNC. If I could 3d print some delrin, a 5 axis CNC, or injection molded plastics then things would be different. I would have to use 2 thick layers of delrin (the top and the manifold) and by material removal, make them mate together. I have yet to see any waterblock make a 3d shaped groove for an O-ring. All of them are 2D, so I have to be very creative. All the O-rings you see are simply 2d inserted into a groove that was milled out. I would have to mill along a Z axis (z is my enemy!) and have a contiguous O-ring going across 3 dimensions. This would BY FAR be the most complicated block and the costs would go beyond if I can even pull it off. On the bright side there is always 2 block designs. I can make just the VR/chipset block, or monoblock CPU/VR & chipset block.
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anthony.yarlott
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/08 10:25:51
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I am fine with two blocks the VRM/Chipset sorry the mono block didn't work out for now, I am sure you would figure it out sooner or later.
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Philwong
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Re: X99 Micro 2 Waterblock
2016/02/08 16:11:05
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Really appreciate ya effort, but can we just stick to 2 blocks?
Phil
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