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So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards?

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Samsander
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 08:21:32 (permalink)
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Hardware or software! those that think it hardware perhaps should read this, software is and does cause needed resets
 
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/847580/geforce-drivers/official-nvidia-353-30-whql-game-ready-display-driver-feedback-thread-released-2015-06-22-/
 
 
David




It's amazing that even with the official responses in this thread you are still adamant about blaming it on a driver issue. It's like you don't even read any comments here.
 
Also, you should probably read what those drivers have fixed in the changelog because you obviously didn't read those too. 
 
They didn't fix anything, literally.
 
 


I can't do anything but shake my head for those that thought that the latest drivers were actually going to fix the FTW. It's not. THis is not a driver issue, and never was a driver issue. Unstable card is unstable card. I'm not sure what it's going to take for the techs to "consider" the theory that the GPU is not getting enough voltage, or that the voltage is throttling (which some users have found out). WHen you have an unstable card, the drivers are going to fail no matter what you put on it. Hense the reason when you have unstable overclocks, your gpu's drivers crash.

As far as the voltage, I'm not even sure if the techs can provide more power to the card. I think it's peaked. If that is the case, your only resolution is down-clocking the card. Sorry. There is no way around it.




The voltage lock is probably not the issue though. Because even at 1.175 & 1.150v the card is stable at 1380Mhz if you run it at a constant 100% power draw. (I tested this by changing the voltages in the BIOS, anything below 1.150v was unstable at 1380Mhz and resulted in application crashing and a driver recovery, NOT a black screen BSOD).
It will crash though when the power draw starts going up high and down to the low draw (with any voltage). The problem is most likely the card not adjusting in time for those drastic power changes.
So 1.2v is more then enough if you ask me. I've seen people running at ~1500Mhz without touching the voltage on non FTW models.
 
Example: http://www.overclock.net/...lub/5070#post_23189477


So, in a sense, it is a voltage issue... in order for the GPU to remain stable, it has to stay at a constant voltage (in your case you modified the bios to make the GPU run at 100% power draw...not sure if that's safe, but I bet you have a much hotter gpu, right? with it being stable, of course) I don't mean to sound specific or trying to be correct here, but, *Anything in which the application crashes, and/or driver recovery (leading up to, but not limited to BSOD) relates to the unit has in fact crashed and has to reset itself in order to acquire stabilization again, Due to the clocks trying to acquire the additional power, in this case the FTW.
 
1.2 for sure might be enough, but that is where the power is pushing "almost"  to Nvidia limitations. So, yes the voltage lock is "one of the reasons" the FTW is not running 100% stable. I'm pretty sure 1.25 is the cutoff point to where they are not allowed to achieve anymore. Needless to say that is probably why their first "BIOS fix" probably showed their attempt to lower the clocks rather than to increase the voltage.




No, you didn't understand me. You can't change the power draw in BIOS to always draw a constant 100%. The power draw of 100% I achieved with the Furmark Benchmark.
All I did in the BIOS is played with the voltages just to see how low can I set the voltage at the stock BOOST clock without the benchmark crashing or the driver recovering.
 
I also tried to set a constant 1.2v in BIOS at all states just to test if it was the voltage fluctuation that is causing all the problems.
This didn't help at all. Even with a constant locked 1.2v the card still crashed with a black screen when the power draw started changing drastically.




If that didn't help at all, then the conclusion is that the card just has too high of clocks. I know that's not the answer anyone wants to hear, but the logical thing to do is, again, lower the clocks till you get a stable card until they have a BIOS fix. Not trying to justify the situation, but is a boost of 100mhz really that mind blowing?




High clock is also not the issue. As already said many times, You can run the FTW at ~1450Mhz with that locked voltage and it will run fine for hours as long as you run a heavy benchmark like Furmark or Kombustor that maxes out the power draw.
 
If the clock was simply to high those benchmarks would crash and burn. But they do not. I did manage to crash Furmark when it came close to 1490Mhz. And that was an app crash with a driver recovery. Not a black screen BSOD.


It has to be. The higher your clock, the more power you need. I can run the scenario you guys are having with the FTW with my reference model, and I can make the GPU's drivers crash day in and day out (you understand the point i'm making here.) - - - So, the GPU is not getting sufficient power when it is not under load. Try running Assassin's creed unity maxed settings. Or, even shadows of morder with ultra textures. what happens? Does it still crash?




I can tell you for sure that it will crash unless you set everything to Ultra, disable vsync and run at 4K DSR. Keep that power draw high and nothing crashes. Even if you go above the stock 1380Mhz boost clock.


I think the #1 resolution they should consider is having 1 of the power plugs using an 8pin. more power sufficiency and better voltage going to the card.




It does use one 8pin and one 6pin.


Then wth....?




If I have to guess. VRM protection kicks in due to power draw fluctuations and shuts down the GPU.
BTW, the classified card actually has 2 switches on the back of the card that disable both OV protections. But those are mostly switched when using LN2.
 
But this is my guess. Let's see what EVGA can cook up with a BIOS update. But day by day I become less optimistic that this is fixable.
tsukikage
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 10:39:55 (permalink)
I am having the same issue with my gtx980 FTW.  I recently upgraded from my gtx680, which still runs fine with no issues.  I RMA'd my card one time already, and received a replacement.  The replacement seems to crash with the same frequency as the old one.  I attempted to downclock the card like was suggested here, and it seems to make the card much more stable - so I opened up a support ticket and explained the problem and my troubleshooting steps.  I was sent a beta bios version, which I installed.  After doing some testing at the factory clocks, I got 2 more crashes - One crash while under medium/heavy load FFXIV Heavensward DX11 @ 5760x1080, and one while sitting at the desktop (little or no load).  When it crashes, it seems almost like someone pushed the reset button, except I need to fully power down (cold boot) before it will post.  Also, I will note that I tried all of the NVIDIA driver versions from 347.x to the most recent 353.30.  The 353.30 drivers resolved some other application compatibility issues, but the reboot/crash issue is the same with all drivers I tested.
 
Edit: I should also mention that after the BIOS update, one of the crashes seems to have locked up the video card, but not caused a system reset.  Audio continued to work, but all video output was frozen.  I don't know if it is related, but this never happened before the bios update.
 
specs:
i7 2600k
asus p8p67 deluxe rev3
corsair hx 750
gtx 980 ftw
post edited by tsukikage - 2015/06/23 10:44:39
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 10:54:30 (permalink)
IF they make a newer bios for you guys, I really hope they make one for the reference 980 model as well, because I can't use these newer drivers even at stock clocks. Don't want to steal any thunder away from you guys but I really feel like there's something wrong with other evga cards as well, not just the FTW models.

My OC is stable at 1500/3950 with 347.88 driver, but with the last couple of newest nvidia drivers I can't even use stock clocks without crashing, let alone using OC.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 11:02:03 (permalink)
Shelledfade
IF they make a newer bios for you guys, I really hope they make one for the reference 980 model as well, because I can't use these newer drivers even at stock clocks. Don't want to steal any thunder away from you guys but I really feel like there's something wrong with other evga cards as well, not just the FTW models.

My OC is stable at 1500/3950 with 347.88 driver, but with the last couple of newest nvidia drivers I can't even use stock clocks without crashing, let alone using OC.


You seemingly ain't getting the difference between our problem and yours. We crash regardless of the driver be it the latest one or 347.88. Last 4-5 driver releases from Nvidia have been AMD heap of junk-tier, the official forums are littered with people complaining. However, the fact alone your issue is fixed with older drivers shows that the problem doesn't lie within the hardware but with the software. As I said above, there's not a single version of drivers, starting from the one that heralded the coming of the 9xx series to the latest one my card won't crash with, every driver release no matter how regarded as good it was will cause the crash for me. 

If its a hardware problem, no driver release will stop it from happening.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 11:07:18 (permalink)
as a gtx 980 reference owner, no, it's not a driver issue.

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stalinx20
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 11:14:49 (permalink)
Shelledfade
IF they make a newer bios for you guys, I really hope they make one for the reference 980 model as well, because I can't use these newer drivers even at stock clocks. Don't want to steal any thunder away from you guys but I really feel like there's something wrong with other evga cards as well, not just the FTW models.

My OC is stable at 1500/3950 with 347.88 driver, but with the last couple of newest nvidia drivers I can't even use stock clocks without crashing, let alone using OC.


Set clocks back to stock, and see if it's still crashing. If so, uninstall GeForce experience. Then remove precision. tell us your results.
 The problem with overclocking is that Nvidia/EVGA are not made to make the drivers function to your overclock. That's not their problem. They look at overclocking as your responsibility and it's a "do at your own risk." Which is why the techs will mostly not get involved on tweaking somebody's system to make it stable. If you're still crashing at stock speeds report back please.
post edited by stalinx20 - 2015/06/23 11:18:31

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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 11:41:53 (permalink)
Shelledfade
IF they make a newer bios for you guys, I really hope they make one for the reference 980 model as well, because I can't use these newer drivers even at stock clocks. Don't want to steal any thunder away from you guys but I really feel like there's something wrong with other evga cards as well, not just the FTW models.

My OC is stable at 1500/3950 with 347.88 driver, but with the last couple of newest nvidia drivers I can't even use stock clocks without crashing, let alone using OC.




 
Do you use Chrome?  There is a known bug that causes the latest drivers to cause stability issues when using hardware acceleration in Google Chrome, as well as other applications.  Have you tried the 353.30 drivers released today?  I know it is an annoying problem, but if you are stable on the 347.88 drivers, then this is not the same problem as the FTW version is having.  The driver instability (driver crash, BSOD/TDR) issue is well documented and happens to many people regardless of version or manufacturer.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 13:40:45 (permalink)
If you guys have Precision X installed  please try and see if the ftw has this option... hold ctrl and shift and click the middle mouse button and you will get a pop up box of advanced settings. Check off disable voltage ctrl then ok and try see if this helps....I don't know if your going to have this option but it helped stabilize these major crashes for me.... 
 
EDIT: Need latest version of precision x and still don't know if the ftw has this option or not... 
post edited by antandbetty - 2015/06/23 14:21:12

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tsukikage
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 13:42:38 (permalink)
antandbetty
If you guys have Precision X installed  please try and see if the ftw has this option... hold ctrl and shift and click the middle mouse button and you will get a pop up box of advanced settings. Check off disable voltage ctrl then ok and try see if this helps....I don't know if your going to have this option but it helped stabilize these major crashes for me.... 


I didn't know I could do that.  I'll try it when I get home.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 14:24:48 (permalink)
antandbetty
If you guys have Precision X installed  please try and see if the ftw has this option... hold ctrl and shift and click the middle mouse button and you will get a pop up box of advanced settings. Check off disable voltage ctrl then ok and try see if this helps....I don't know if your going to have this option but it helped stabilize these major crashes for me.... 
 
EDIT: Need latest version of precision x and still don't know if the ftw has this option or not... 




This is not going to do anything. The voltage regulator on the FTW is locked and not controllable.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/23 17:54:46 (permalink)
Hello again all, FYI I had several 2986's here that were back from RMA.  Due to the "popularity" of this thread, there are some cards being RMAd thinking there is something wrong with it when it dislikes a VERY specific game or something, so the testing can take some time.  But I have several here at my test bench and I have been testing them for a couple hours, and I think I am onto something here, but I should know more tomorrow, barring any unexpected fires I need to put out.
I know I haven't posted today, just making sure everyone knows we are working on this still, both Jacob and myself are working with the engineers and I am testing the crap out of returned cards to get as much info as possible before sending them onto engineers.
 
More to follow.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 03:10:32 (permalink)
Definitely looking forward to seeing the outcome of it.

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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 14:12:18 (permalink)
I am not able to PM as I am a new member, but I just sent in my 980 FTW for similar issues.  I was on the phone with EVGA techs a number of times before they suggested I RMA the card.  I would post my RMA number, but that is probably only best through private PM.  My card is supposed to arrive at EVGA tomorrow night.
 
I was having hard locks within minutes in a number of games: (black screen with sound buzzing and only way to reboot was to hold down power button)
 
Witcher 3
GTA 5
Subnautica
Fallout New Vegas
Skyrim
Shadows of Mordor
Heroes of the Storm
 
I have an I5-2500k with a Sparkle 750w PSU; 8 gb of ram.
 
My GTX 660 which I put back in is humming along fine in all the above games no matter how much I throw at it.  The techs had me do the following as troubleshooting:
 
- Use HDMI cable instead of DVI cable
- Downclock card 50mz
- Installed new bios that they emailed me
- Downgrade NVIDIA drivers to the ones before GTA 5 release (350.12 I think?)
- Verify my 12v rail was stable (it was)
 
None of the above resolved my freezes, and sometimes made it worse.  Hope this info helps!  I also hope the RMA is successful!
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 14:41:08 (permalink)
I RMA'ed my first 980 FTW and my second one will not let me play anything of late.
 
I was having hard locks within minutes in a number of games: (black screen with sound buzzing and only way to reboot was to hold down power button) - Same as others
 
Games I tried
- FFXIV Heavensward
- GTA 5
- Witcher 3
- Shadows of Mordor
 
CPU - Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 @ 3.60Ghz
Motherboard - Asus Rampage IV Extreme
Power Supply - CORSAIR HX Series HX850 850W
Video Card - EVGA GeForce GTX 980 FTW
RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB @ 2133
SSD - SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series 256GB X 4

I put my 680 back in and have not crashed once in over 24 hours. I put the 980 FTW in and crashed in every game in less then 2 mins.
I'm in the Step-Up ATM with my 980 FTW and once they take my invoice I should be sending it back for a Ti. I wanted to post to help out coz I love EVGA cards my 680 is one my wife's build is a 780 Ti and so forth. I really hope its something easy to fix and ppl can get back to gaming.
 
Thank you for your time


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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 16:07:32 (permalink)
BigBearSmokey
Just got back the RMA'd Gtx 980 FTW Card. Nothing has changed, I still get the black screen after a few minutes in GW2. Changed Physx in control panel to CPU instead of GPU and it was stable. Used EVGA Precision X and down clocked -100 mhz and it was stable. Did a diagnostics check on my PC, everything was 100 percent fine, did a RAM test and again everything was fine. Why is this GTX 980 FTW not stable at stock speeds in my machine? Everything is about 2 months old, my 290x Sli, 280x and gtx 970 sc works fine without a hitch but this FTW card seems to carry a very bad curse with it ("For the Win" huh, we sure won alright.)

CPU: i5 4690K
MOBO: Asus Z87 Pro
PSU: 850 Watt Bronze Label
RAM: 8GB Corsair
SSD: Samsung EVO Pro


Hi i am having the same issue with the 970 acx 2.0 sc and i dont know how to fix is there a solution  to fixing this ??
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 17:01:16 (permalink)
Has there been any new news on the 980 ftw troubles .ie new bios that i might have missed the crashing sucks hard core today and not looking to do a 3rd rma
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/24 23:03:27 (permalink)
kidfire00
Has there been any new news on the 980 ftw troubles .ie new bios that i might have missed the crashing sucks hard core today and not looking to do a 3rd rma


They say they are working on it.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 01:39:50 (permalink)
@EVGATech_DaveB
glad you're making some progress Dave, hope you solve that soon.
lots of guys are waiting patiently to finally be able to use the full potential of those cards.

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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 09:44:06 (permalink)
Mornin' all, alright I just got some updates form engineering, which I will be testing over the next 2 days, I am hoping that we did locate the source of the issue.  But this does look like a step forward and I have a few cards here that I found the issue on as well and they have been my test benches for the potential fixes.
 
If anyone still has that BETA BIOS form a week or so ago, please do NOT use it, as it did not resolve the issue.  I am throwing that out here as I still receive questions about it and requests for it.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 10:03:37 (permalink)
I know many people are going to be very grateful for the hustle on getting the FTW fixed and running. Nicely done.

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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 10:15:16 (permalink)
stalinx20
I know many people are going to be very grateful for the hustle on getting the FTW fixed and running. Nicely done.




Thanks!  I'm just sorry this happened to begin with.  But I hope this goes to show that we know that everyone can make a mistake but we will do all we can to resolve it.  I know this has taken a while, but I think we are in the home stretch for a fix.
 
More to follow.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 10:22:40 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
stalinx20
I know many people are going to be very grateful for the hustle on getting the FTW fixed and running. Nicely done.




Thanks!  I'm just sorry this happened to begin with.  But I hope this goes to show that we know that everyone can make a mistake but we will do all we can to resolve it.  I know this has taken a while, but I think we are in the home stretch for a fix.
 
More to follow.


What did they find the problem to be?

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tsukikage
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 10:29:36 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
stalinx20
I know many people are going to be very grateful for the hustle on getting the FTW fixed and running. Nicely done.




Thanks!  I'm just sorry this happened to begin with.  But I hope this goes to show that we know that everyone can make a mistake but we will do all we can to resolve it.  I know this has taken a while, but I think we are in the home stretch for a fix.
 
More to follow.


This is the kind of service that creates brand loyalty, and why I usually buy EVGA cards.
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 10:56:36 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
stalinx20
I know many people are going to be very grateful for the hustle on getting the FTW fixed and running. Nicely done.




Thanks!  I'm just sorry this happened to begin with.  But I hope this goes to show that we know that everyone can make a mistake but we will do all we can to resolve it.  I know this has taken a while, but I think we are in the home stretch for a fix.
 
More to follow.


So glad to hear
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 11:04:07 (permalink)
At this point we aren't 100% sure, we are doing testing now as we think we found the problem, can't say for sure yet.
stalinx20
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 11:35:49 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
At this point we aren't 100% sure, we are doing testing now as we think we found the problem, can't say for sure yet.


I would definitely be curious to know what the cause was, assuming you're able to close that information to us.

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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 18:00:26 (permalink)
@!Stalin
unfortunately I cannot disclose that information on the specifics.
 
Right now we are about 95% sure on the cause, now we are cooking up a fix, I am hoping /knocks on wood   that we will have a solution finalized next week.  Again, I am sorry for the delays and the issues.
stalinx20
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 18:11:57 (permalink)
EVGATech_DaveB
@!Stalin
unfortunately I cannot disclose that information on the specifics.
 
Right now we are about 95% sure on the cause, now we are cooking up a fix, I am hoping /knocks on wood   that we will have a solution finalized next week.  Again, I am sorry for the delays and the issues.


Fair enough. I was just curious, even though I don't have the FTW series. Really looking forward to hearing the results though!

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wickedwayne
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/25 23:39:12 (permalink)
Nice to see a solution seems to have been found for this issue. Good job EVGA. It seems i was too quick to judge and for that i apologize. 
 
Even if most of us already know that it was indeed an issue with something related to the card i can reconfirm after receiving my 980TI from Step Up that my black screen issue has completely disappeared.
 
I tested 3dmark skydiver about 5 times now and it runs perfectly. Haven't had the time to play yet though but at this point i am fairly certain that it won't happen again.
 
I hope that this issue is soon fixed for anyone suffering from it.
 
Samsander
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Re: So GTX 980 FTW are very bad cards? 2015/06/26 01:25:09 (permalink)
wickedwayne
Nice to see a solution seems to have been found for this issue. Good job EVGA. It seems i was too quick to judge and for that i apologize. 
 
Even if most of us already know that it was indeed an issue with something related to the card i can reconfirm after receiving my 980TI from Step Up that my black screen issue has completely disappeared.
 
I tested 3dmark skydiver about 5 times now and it runs perfectly. Haven't had the time to play yet though but at this point i am fairly certain that it won't happen again.
 
I hope that this issue is soon fixed for anyone suffering from it.
 




Well, nothing was solved yet. But at least there is hope. :)
Would of been nice to test over the weekend whatever the engineers cooked up, but I guess they are not rushing to release anything after the last downclock "fix" fiasco that didn't really solve anything.
Now we are just waiting and biting nails. :D
 
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