I've been looking at the specs for Molex Mini Fit Jr 5556 and using daisy chains for 3000 series is questionable at best.


At best it's rated for 9 amps, but more likely 8 amps because it depends on wire gauge and materials used.

The highest rating is 9 amp at 16 gauge. There's also a 9 amp 18 gauge on the chart.

At 9 amps * 12 watts we get 108 watts. Then it's actually rated per pin so that's * 3 for the 3 x 12 v pins in the connector's housing. We get 324W.

At 8 amps it's 288W across 3 pins. But that can also be on 16 gauge depending on materials used.

The PCI-E spec says 150W. The ATX spec doesn't seem to mention daisy chains at all. Leaving it up to what molex recommends for the Mini Fit Jr specs. Which according to Buildzoid almost no one uses 16 gauge for daisy chains like they're supposed to.

That's quite discrepancy between 288W from Molex and 150 W from PCI-E...

And then factor in inefficiency. You're not getting the full 288W in the first place because nothing is 100% efficient. That loss in efficiency results in heat. 

What benefit does anyone get from using a daisy chain anyway? There's no reason to say a daisy chain is better. There are reasons to be concerned a daisy chain is detrimental.

In the case of the the post that got me on this the thought process is that if a daisy chain is supposed to be able to do the job of two cables then why does Nvidia say hard no and it caused at least one magic smoke?

If a daisy chain can do the job of two cables then shouldn't it be fine to use with an FE? Of which Nvidia specifically states to NOT use daisy chains with the FE cards...

It would seem so far that a daisy can NOT reliably do what two cables can do as we're being told by some.

And if it can not reliably do what two cables can do why is anyone telling to use daisy chain power cables in place of separate cables?

It would seem it's something from before 2000 series and 3000 series that was fine until power draw got serious like it is now. And instead of revaluating if they're still a good idea people are thinking they're still acceptable to use.

Personally before my current EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra I had a 2070 I initially powered with a single daisy chain cable. I had to go to two separate cables because of crashing and instability. As soon as I realized my error(how can one cable do the work of 2 cables) and went to a proper configuration everything worked fine. That was a plain 2070, no overclock at that time, on a 1000W EVGA Supernova G3 Gold. By the math it should have had enough watts. A 2070 draws 215W roughly. With an estimated 288W per connector we should have been good there. Unless the cable can't handle the draw even though the connectors can...

That Seasonic chart? At best it only applies to Seasonic PSUs. At worst it's garbage and should be retracted.

Could EVGA Jacob and/or other EVGA techs please explain their logic behind their bad advice on this topic? 
It seems like they should know better than that...

Previous thread on the topic that got moved and buried in Hardware: https://forums.evga.com/G...ables-m3164416-p3.aspx

How many of these threads do we need?

rz22g
I get from where you're coming but in the case where you had issues with the 2070 the problem could have been something else like the connection itself or coincidence that it stopped when you made the change. I have a 2080ti on a 650watt PS, single daisy chain. Based off your comment I should be having issues left and right. I game for hours at a time and have no issues. In my situation the company that made the PC had wired it that way, even though the PS had two 8 pin.
 
Having said that, if I have the means to run a separate cable for each, then I would go that route over split.  There is no reason not to other than laziness.

Did you read what I wrote?

The PSU was a 1000W EVGA G3 Gold Supernova. If it was the PSU then EVGA's reputation for quality is being called into question.

You absolutely should not be using a single daisy chain with a 2080 Ti. Just because it works *for now* doesn't mean it's going to continue to do so, or that it's ideal.

These are expensive ass GPUs. Do you really want to take risks for no benefit by using a daisy chain?

Intoxicus
 
Did you read what I wrote?

Yeah I read it.. hence the response. Did you read what I wrote ? Apparently not because you immediately started defending the power supply when I never said it was your power supply. You might also notice that I said I would run separate power over daisy chaining.
 
You are wound up way too tight dude. You are under the delusion that your word is gospel.  It could have been coincidence. A bad connection. Anything could have happened while you were in there messing with cables so you cannot say for sure it was any one certain thing. And it does not matter what reputation a piece of hardware has, everything is susceptible to failure or flaw.

 
 
 
And yes my current setup is working "for now" since 2018 

EVGATech_PeterN
Hi Intoxicus,
 
We would already recommend to run separate, individual PCIE cables from the PSU to the GPU, this applies to 30 series, and earlier series GPU's as well.  Never would recommend daisy chaining, it could be an electrical/fire hazard.
 
Regards,
Peter N

 
Anyone that actually does know what they are doing wouldn't recommend it either. 

Can we please get these threads merged?  He has 3 of these identical threads going.  It is insane.
 
Merge or lock the duplicates, please.  Thanks!
 
https://forums.evga.com/GPU-Power-One-cable-One-connection-no-splitter-cables-m3164416.aspx
https://forums.evga.com/PSA-Do-NOT-use-Daisy-Chains-for-3000-series-m3189271.aspx
https://forums.evga.com/Do-you-use-daisy-chain-power-cables-Did-your-GPU-die-or-have-issues-m3191671.aspx

Lets add to the misinformation...
You have one EVGA Rep here that says its ok.
You have another EVGA Rep that completely condemns it saying it can start a fire.
You have another EVGA Rep who says you shouldn't do it... unless the power supply has a cable included that is split.
Then EVGA Power Supplies include split cables. (which explains the comment above)
 
Lets add the EVGA Power Meter that even though you enter your system specs with the exact video card you are getting, recommends a lower wattage power supply and power supplies that do not have enough dedicate outputs that are required by the card. But its ok.. they include split cables.
 

rz22g
Lets add to the misinformation...
You have one EVGA Rep here that says its ok.
You have another EVGA Rep that completely condemns it saying it can start a fire.
You have another EVGA Rep who says you shouldn't do it... unless the power supply has a cable included that is split.
Then EVGA Power Supplies include split cables. (which explains the comment above)
Lets add the EVGA Power Meter that even though you enter your system specs with the exact video card you are getting, recommends a lower wattage power supply and power supplies and power supplies that do not have enough dedicate outputs that are required by the card.
 

 
Those daisy chained cables are the worst idea of all bad ideas ever.
 
It all comes down to MONEY in the end, cost cutting.
 
They can lower the price on the PSUs by cutting cost providing less cables and having less connections on the PSU end.
 
 

ty_ger07
I think that you guys are focusing real hard on something which isn't responsible for why the cards are failing.  It's really quite irrelevant.  And then we have 3 THREADS of this bickering?  Why?  Have an opinion and then leave it at that.  Why spam the forum everywhere with your opinion and create this bickering in multiple places?

It's not irrelevant.
 
I can't even count how many burnt cables and connections I have seen over the years.
 
And that is in person, not just pictures.
 
 

jankerson

ty_ger07
I think that you guys are focusing real hard on something which isn't responsible for why the cards are failing.  It's really quite irrelevant.  And then we have 3 THREADS of this bickering?  Why?  Have an opinion and then leave it at that.  Why spam the forum everywhere with your opinion and create this bickering in multiple places?

It's not irrelevant.

It appears to be irrelevant to the red light of death issue that these EVGA cards are experiencing.

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson
Those daisy chained cables are the worst idea of all bad ideas ever.

Not necessarily.  If properly engineered, they can provide the same result.
 
I can't wait for this bickering to blow over.

 
NOPE, they can't.
 
MOORES LAW trumps that and makes it impossible.

Yes they can.
Moore's law?  Moore's Law has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of a wires and connectors safely conducting electricity.

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson

ty_ger07
I think that you guys are focusing real hard on something which isn't responsible for why the cards are failing.  It's really quite irrelevant.  And then we have 3 THREADS of this bickering?  Why?  Have an opinion and then leave it at that.  Why spam the forum everywhere with your opinion and create this bickering in multiple places?

It's not irrelevant.

It appears to be irrelevant to the red light of death issue that these EVGA cards are experiencing.

Never saw the red light of death on the 3 cards I have had here.
 
But then I always used 3 separate cables too.

Irrelevant.  You are making a false argument based on an assumption that there is a correlation in the first place.  That's bias.  Documented on this forum, the majority of people who have had the red light of death issue are using 3 dedicated cables.

ty_ger07

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson

ty_ger07
I think that you guys are focusing real hard on something which isn't responsible for why the cards are failing.  It's really quite irrelevant.  And then we have 3 THREADS of this bickering?  Why?  Have an opinion and then leave it at that.  Why spam the forum everywhere with your opinion and create this bickering in multiple places?

It's not irrelevant.

It appears to be irrelevant to the red light of death issue that these EVGA cards are experiencing.

Never saw the red light of death on the 3 cards I have had here.
 
But then I always used 3 separate cables too.

Irrelevant.  You are making a false argument based on an assumption that there is a correlation in the first place.  That's bias.  Documented on this forum, the majority of people who have had the red light of death issue are using 3 dedicated cables.

Perhaps.
 
But it's not really about just a few cards, it's more about in general really.
 
And that gets into PSUs and how they work and then into quality and design.
 
They are NOT all the same.

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson
Those daisy chained cables are the worst idea of all bad ideas ever.

Not necessarily.  If properly engineered, they can provide the same result.
 
I can't wait for this bickering to blow over.

 
NOPE, they can't.
 
MOORES LAW trumps that and makes it impossible.

Yes they can.
Moore's law?  Moore's Law has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of a wires and connectors safely conducting electricity.

Nope, Like I said IMPOSSIBLE.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Nope, it's impossible to get around MOORES LAW.

Moore's law is not applicable.

jankerson

ty_ger07

jankerson
........

Moore's law is not applicable.

If the subject is electricity it always is, no way around it.

Feel free to read Moore's Law and then tell me how it is applicable to current-carrying capability of wires and connectors.