RickJamesBish
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 05:48:15
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ty_ger07
ngaugler If a company sold a product 2 years ago that is not a fire hazard a recall should be issued.
Uhhh.... I .... ahhh.... What? I thought I understood where you are coming from. But now I am just so very very confused. It turns out that I don't understand where you are coming from. And that sentence just makes zero senses either way. Nothing in my house has burst into flames. I want it to all be recalled.
LOL ... I think he meant that if the product was not a fire hazard two years ago but now it could potentially be. The statement made by the EVGA Tech was that it could be a fire hazard and that it was not recommended for 3000 or previous series GPUs. I do not think any of this is as critical as it is being made out, simply because from a legal standpoint, if there were any real merit to this, that comment would (should) have never been made, considering you include the ability to daisy chain in the PSUs you sell, regardless of when daisy chaining supposedly became a legitimate concern.
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Intoxicus
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 10:17:37
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ngaugler
jankerson The only ones I have ever seen burn are low quality junk PSUs. Or old out of date PSUs that should have been thrown away long before they failed and started the fire. Gals/guys we can debate back and forth the likelihood of it happening, but that is not the topic of debate here in this post. The debate is what is the official standpoint. The company representative has stated that their products if used will create a fire hazard. FWIW I have the umtmost respect for both you, janakerson, and the_Scarlet_one, but you're missing the point. The point is the company statement needs to be consistent. If there is a fire hazard, then imho, a recall should be issued.
Exactly. At this point whatever the case is EVGA needs to put out a consistent and congruent statement thay explains the reasoning behind the statement. Being that this is all truly dependent on the PSU, EVGA can only truly make a statement about their own PSUs.
"Humans are not rational animals, humans are rationalizing animals." -Robert A Heinlein
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Dwarfy
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 12:14:33
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To me all three comments are true. Read them as one. It is fine to run 2 cables, it is not recommended, in the absolute worse case scenario it poses a fire risk. We seem to have lost all common sense and just seem to want to be told in very specific terms what to do. Use your common sense, if in any doubt then air on the side of caution. Are you confident that your psu is up to the task? If not then buy one that gives you the confidence. Are you confident that your cables and connections are up the the task? If you think not then run 3 cables. Here is another snippet I snapped up on the internet @12V To transport 6 Amps over 2m you need a minimal wire thickness of 0.75mm2 or between 22 and 20 gauge To transport 6 Amps over 10m you need a minimal wire thickness of 1.5mm2 or between 16 and 14 gauge Most psu cables are <1m in length
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Intoxicus
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 13:22:46
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Dwarfy To me all three comments are true. Read them as one. It is fine to run 2 cables, it is not recommended, in the absolute worse case scenario it poses a fire risk. We seem to have lost all common sense and just seem to want to be told in very specific terms what to do. Use your common sense, if in any doubt then air on the side of caution. Are you confident that your psu is up to the task? If not then buy one that gives you the confidence. Are you confident that your cables and connections are up the the task? If you think not then run 3 cables. Here is another snippet I snapped up on the internet @12V To transport 6 Amps over 2m you need a minimal wire thickness of 0.75mm2 or between 22 and 20 gauge To transport 6 Amps over 10m you need a minimal wire thickness of 1.5mm2 or between 16 and 14 gauge Most psu cables are <1m in length
Common sense is not common. It's learned behavior taken for granted. The specs for the Molex Mini Fit Jr 5556 are for the pins itself. We're talking currents in the range of 30-45a here. If we have a 500W limit at 12v that's 42.6667 amps. "Common sense" says that your 6 amp cables at 12v are going to have issues with 30-45a depending on GPU and load. That's almost 7 times as much as the 6a cables your mentioned. (W==a*v & a==w/v)
"Humans are not rational animals, humans are rationalizing animals." -Robert A Heinlein
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ty_ger07
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 17:56:33
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Intoxicus If we have a 500W limit at 12v that's 42.6667 amps.
Divided by the number of wires... You forgot that step. Also subtract 75 watts from the initial 500 watts because those 75 watts (and even more, as measured) come from the PCI-E slot. (500 watts − 75 watts)÷12 volts ÷ 6 contacts = 5.9 amps per contact at the PSU-side when using two 8-pin connectors on the PSU side to power three 8-pin connectors to the GPU. Then +/- whatever the GPU power balances. Worst case scenario, with power balancing, one 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 3.9 amps per contact, and the other 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 7.9 amps per contact.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/01/10 19:10:23
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Intoxicus
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/10 21:57:11
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ty_ger07
Intoxicus If we have a 500W limit at 12v that's 42.6667 amps.
Divided by the number of wires... You forgot that step. Also subtract 75 watts from the initial 500 watts because those 75 watts (and even more, as measured) come from the PCI-E slot.
(500 watts − 75 watts)÷12 volts ÷ 6 contacts = 5.9 amps per contact at the PSU-side when using two 8-pin connectors on the PSU side to power three 8-pin connectors to the GPU. Then +/- whatever the GPU power balances. Worst case scenario, with power balancing, one 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 3.9 amps per contact, and the other 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 7.9 amps per contact.
Ok, then. At 9a per pin if it has the best materials and are 16awg we exceed 6a on the cable potentially.
post edited by Intoxicus - 2021/01/10 22:00:55
"Humans are not rational animals, humans are rationalizing animals." -Robert A Heinlein
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RickJamesBish
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/11 06:01:03
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ty_ger07
Intoxicus If we have a 500W limit at 12v that's 42.6667 amps.
Divided by the number of wires... You forgot that step. Also subtract 75 watts from the initial 500 watts because those 75 watts (and even more, as measured) come from the PCI-E slot.
(500 watts − 75 watts)÷12 volts ÷ 6 contacts = 5.9 amps per contact at the PSU-side when using two 8-pin connectors on the PSU side to power three 8-pin connectors to the GPU. Then +/- whatever the GPU power balances. Worst case scenario, with power balancing, one 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 3.9 amps per contact, and the other 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 7.9 amps per contact.
That pretty much sums it up and that is how I feel about it as well. My original comment to this post was directed more that he is stating that daisy chaining is the issue with the cards failing as a matter of fact, when its a matter of opinion at best. The poll I did shows just the opposite. Its not definitive but uses what data we do have.
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ty_ger07
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/11 06:31:26
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Intoxicus
ty_ger07
Intoxicus If we have a 500W limit at 12v that's 42.6667 amps.
Divided by the number of wires... You forgot that step. Also subtract 75 watts from the initial 500 watts because those 75 watts (and even more, as measured) come from the PCI-E slot.
(500 watts − 75 watts)÷12 volts ÷ 6 contacts = 5.9 amps per contact at the PSU-side when using two 8-pin connectors on the PSU side to power three 8-pin connectors to the GPU. Then +/- whatever the GPU power balances. Worst case scenario, with power balancing, one 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 3.9 amps per contact, and the other 8-pin connector on the PSU-side will have 7.9 amps per contact.
Ok, then.
At 9a per pin if it has the best materials and are 16awg we exceed 6a on the cable potentially.
16 awg can handle way more than 6 amps.
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sammaza421
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/11 10:01:55
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Dwarfy
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/11 13:07:26
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Intel seems to say it's recommendation... Intel Based on the amount of current that is needed to support a specific current (power) level the guideline to follow is 6-8 Amps per pin. This is based on 18 AWG wire and a solid connector pin. Based on this recommendation, here is how this can be applied to the CPU power connectors: •12 -16A support for 2x2 (4pin) connector •18 -24A support for 2x3 (6pin) connector •24 -32A support for 2x4 (8pin) connector This recommendation is based on common design practice. PSU and system designer may design or use differently and should be responsible for designing the PSU to meetall electrical, thermal, safety and reliability requirements based on the application of the PSU.
Source :- https://www.intel.com/con...-design-guide-june.pdf
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Intoxicus
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/01/14 08:36:31
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That's not mandatory. A lot of the Intel ATX specs are non mandatory and that's a big part of the issue
You have no idea how much your PSU is in or put of spec and also how and where it's out of spec.
Truly only your PSU manufacturer can tell if the daisy chain cables and PSU overall can handle it.
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RobotCandy
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/04/02 13:42:44
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Has anyone noticed the 30 series founders edition adapter sold by EVGA is sold as 16awg but is really 18awg? I spoke to sales about it, it looks like they have since removed the 16awg rating from their website. But unfortunate for them the package still states 16awg, measuring the wire (and just using good old fashioned eye balls) it is obviously 18awg. What is that about? Dale got defensive and pissed like I was beeing a jerk but I was just asking why they were misrepresenting the product and wasting my time. Just yelled at me that should just get a refund, that it would work fine. And refused to comment on the fact it was 18awg... I expected better from these guys. Unreal. First and last evga product I buy:/ Nvidia clearly states 16awg is required. I am returning the cheap cable from EVGA, is feel like junk, and is way too thin. Unbelievable they would make such a mistake, or try to openly lie? So confused. The photo (hopefully uploaded properly?) is the clearly marked 16awg package, and Evga thin black 18awg wires next to real 16awg white wires.
post edited by RobotCandy - 2021/04/02 13:46:04
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/04/02 14:55:24
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RobotCandy Has anyone noticed the 30 series founders edition adapter sold by EVGA is sold as 16awg but is really 18awg?
I spoke to sales about it, it looks like they have since removed the 16awg rating from their website. But unfortunate for them the package still states 16awg, measuring the wire (and just using good old fashioned eye balls) it is obviously 18awg. What is that about? Dale got defensive and pissed like I was beeing a jerk but I was just asking why they were misrepresenting the product and wasting my time. Just yelled at me that should just get a refund, that it would work fine. And refused to comment on the fact it was 18awg... I expected better from these guys. Unreal. First and last evga product I buy:/
Nvidia clearly states 16awg is required. I am returning the cheap cable from EVGA, is feel like junk, and is way too thin. Unbelievable they would make such a mistake, or try to openly lie? So confused.
The photo (hopefully uploaded properly?) is the clearly marked 16awg package, and Evga thin black 18awg wires next to real 16awg white wires.
Removed the second post, as the image is attached in your original post. I doubt EVGA makes the wires in house, so they may need to contact the manufacturer that made the wires and inquire as to why the 18awg wire was used versus the 16awg wire. I honestly doubt EVGA is intentionally selling the wrong wire size.
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EVGA_Lee
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/04/02 17:09:45
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☼ Best Answerby Cool GTX 2021/04/17 08:05:15
The EVGA PerFE cables are 16AWG.
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Category 5
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Re: PSA: Do NOT use Daisy Chains for 3000 series!!!
2021/08/30 07:21:35
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SO if we have to use a single PCI-E and a dual PCI-E (piggyback) connector, I assume the single should go in PCI-E power slot 1 since it seems to always draw the max before diverting to port 2 and 3. 3 always draws the least. Question is this. Which physical connectors are PCI-E1, PCI-E2 and PCI-E3?
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