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Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop

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Nereus
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/24 20:49:10 (permalink)
kram36
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Here you go folks looks like uncle Sam has already started laying the smack down. 
 Can't link the article yet, but a miner got smacked with $50k in taxes due and his response "I didn't know and I think I may have ruined my life."
 It was posted by the guardian. Investors in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies face hefty tax bills

Give me a break. Do you know how much money a person would have to earn in order to owe $50k in taxes? If the quoted individual in your post ruined his life, he ruined it with a ton of money.


Wrong. They would not have to earn that much at all. As someone else mentioned, there's likely accrued interest and penalties included in there also. I can tell you that fraud penalties in New York are 200% of the outstanding tax - and failing to disclose significant income is usually considered fraud, unless you have a damn good lawyer that could somehow convince a jury it was negligence - a very difficult argument to make because in criminal law it's very black and white and not open for interpretation, and ignorance of the law (even tax law) is not a defense. Accrued interest compounds not only on the tax, but the interest as well. If the under-reporting is more than 25% of total taxable income, than whack on another 10% of tax due. On top of this there are possible felony charges and jail time (different levels depending on the $ involved). That's just for New York tax.
 
IRS fraud penalty is 100% of the tax owed PLUS fines up to $250k for individuals, plus accrued interest, plus possible felony charges and jail time (again, different levels depending on the $ involved).
 
It takes relatively little to get a $50k IRS bill - don't forget that the miner's declared earned income would have pushed any undisclosed income into a higher tax bracket as well.
 
Here's the reasoning why tax penalties are significant; if the consequences of getting caught were inconsequential, then everyone would do it because you would still come out ahead. IRS penalties would not be a deterrent. I work as a forensic auditor, and tax related cases are common. $50k in tax is small potatoes, let alone with penalties and interest included.
 
Anyone who has realized a gain from cryptocurrency should declare it asap, because I can bet the IRS and state taxing authorities will get access to that information, and they will come after you, and the longer you leave it, the more it will cost you. IRS doesn't even need to see what happens within the blockchain network, only what happens when it leaves the network. Don't forget, when you 'cash in', how do you get that money? That's right - you link your bitcoin account to a bank account or credit/debit card account, maybe to paypal (if possible), and maybe even through a 3rd party - ALL of which maintain traceable transaction records that are easily obtained via subpoena (I subpoena financial institutions all the time in my job). If you think for one minute the IRS or state taxing authorities are just going to let it slide, you are in for one very rude awakening - maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it WILL happen.
 
If you are one of these bitcoin profiteers, save yourself some money and file amended tax returns as soon as you can.
 
Don't say you weren't warned.
 
 
 
 
post edited by Nereus - 2018/03/24 20:58:12


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#31
QuintLeo
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 02:19:14 (permalink)
The whole "look for code blocks" concept might last a WEEK or two but is far too easy to work around - simple changes in the miner code like inserting a SINGLE NOP instruction would kill THAT idea quickly.
Also, you're not looking at one "block chain", you are looking at one for EACH AND EVERY COIN that is different, and the DATA is completely different in each one - and mining programs don't look at the "blockchain" anyway, they look at one BLOCK of data that can't be in any sort of "look at the blockchain" BIOS code because it's completely NEW data.
 
No, it's NOT in their interest to try to move miners to Quadro, those things are so overpriced expensive miners won't use them PERIOD because it would literally take YEARS to pay the bloody crazy expensive things off (if they lived long enough TO be paid off) and the cooling is very poor to HORRIBLE on the things outside of the rackmount case environment a LOT of them are specifically designed for.
They offer nothing but NEGATIVES to miners in return for the crazy pricing level (mining does NOT use floating point, which is the ONLY advantage Quadro cards have over GTX cards).
There is no option to "move miners to Quadro" because miners flat out won't pay that insane RIPOFF level of prohibitive pricing for LOWER performance.
If you think current consumer cards are expensive, TRY LOOKING AT BLOODY QUADRO PRICING sometime.
 
Same logic applies to AMD trying to move miners to the WX series cards - except the current WX series members have the IDENTICAL GPU as their corresponding consumer cards, at lower clocks with very poor cooling solutions and a TON higher pricing than even the worst gouge pricing got to a year ago.
Again, way higher pricing for nothing but NEGATIVES, miners will NOT move because the cost is RIPOFF level prohibitive.
 
 
You try to make it seem simple - but if you bother looking at the FACTS it's not simple, and is probably not able to be done at all - the workaround would be TRIVIAL to do.
 
 
There's also the not so minor point that Nvidia is NOT getting hammered by cryptocoin demand for their GPUs, except when AMD can't keep up with THEIR demand - my best estimate is that total sales of GPUs to miners in 2017 was between 2 and 3 million for Nvidia out of AT LEAST 30 MILLION DISCRETE CARDS SOLD (and probably the outright majority of those Nvidia sales were in 2Q 2017 when AMD pricing got totally insane), as opposed to AMD getting hit for more like 6-8 million out of perhaps 20 million sold.
For reference - at the current Ethereum total network hashrate I'd estimate there are at least 9 million GPUs mining on it (probably about 80% of those AMD RX 470/480/570/580 models), with the all-time peak hashrate on 16 March 2018 and a small decline since then.
The most likely trigger for GPUs getting dumped in quantity will be when Ethereum finally moves to a Proof of Stake model and mining on it ENDS, causing every card mining ETH at the time to look for a new home or get "dumped for whatever I can get out of it" - but that is going to hammer AMD far harder than Nvidia as most of those cards are AMD while most Nvidia cards are mining on other coins that won't get directly affected (but will take SOME indirect hit from AMD cards looking for new homes).
 
As a specific example, the second-highest card count is mining on ZEC (probably between 1 and 1.3 million GPUs at this time, likely 90% or more Nvidia) - the RX 580 8GB might manage a bit over 300 sol/s using 120-130 watts with best settings, a 1070 ti will generally manage about 460 sol/s at 106 watts and over 500 at 124 watts - and ANY Nvidia card 1070 and higher can manage more than 4 sol/s per watt in it's most efficient range (possibly the 1060 models as well, but I don't have any of those to test with).
Even a lowly 1050 ti will manage 160-170 sol/s running at 60 watts (1050 ti is considered to be a POOR ZEC miner due to the low efficiency and low hashrate).
There WON'T be a lot of Nvidia cards retiring from ZEC mining as the AMD cards just won't be able to compete very well - and ZEC uses an algorithm that AMD is at least in the same ballpark on for efficiency vs Nvidia, a lot of the smaller altcoins AMD can't even come CLOSE to competing on vs Nvidia.
 
AMD are the ones that have legitimate worry about GPU cryptocoin mining and it's effect on their supply and demand and the eventual used card dump, not Nvidia.
I'm not saying Nvidia won't have SOME cards dumped - but I'd bet on it being less than 10% of the dump AMD is eventually facing.
 

Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
 I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
 
#32
QuintLeo
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 12:08:15 (permalink)
For perspective, many years ago, I did some day-trading during one year.
The broker MISreported my trades, only reported the sale price NOT the sale AND purchase price like they're SUPPOSED to do ( a complaint I made to the IRS but was told "there's no penalties for that so we don't bother trying to enforce it").
 
The IRS tried to hit me for $40,000 (appx) owed on what they claimed was about $120,000 income - only to have it turn out they owed ME money when the dust settled, as I had LOST money that year on the trading and had not filed for that year as my actual TAXABLE INCOME was less than the ~$9000 "don't have to file" threshold.
A substantial part of that $40,000 was "penalties and interest" as they waited for a few years before they tried to hammer me for the alleged back taxes.
 
(edited to correct the $12,000 typo to the correct $120,000 figure)
post edited by QuintLeo - 2018/03/26 17:19:16

Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
 I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
 
#33
Nereus
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 13:26:35 (permalink)
QuintLeo
For perspective, many years ago, I did some day-trading during one year.
The broker MISreported my trades, only reported the sale price NOT the sale AND purchase price like they're SUPPOSED to do ( a complaint I made to the IRS but was told "there's no penalties for that so we don't bother trying to enforce it").
 
The IRS tried to hit me for $40,000 (appx) owed on what they claimed was about $12,000 income - only to have it turn out they owed ME money when the dust settled, as I had LOST money that year on the trading and had not filed for that year as my actual TAXABLE INCOME was less than the ~$9000 "don't have to file" threshold.
A substantial part of that $40,000 was "penalties and interest" as they waited for a few years before they tried to hammer me for the alleged back taxes.

I've seen the 1099 reports the IRS / tax authorities get from the various brokers, and you are dead right - they only show gross sales, not the basis and therefore not the net realized gain, so whoever you dealt with in IRS was apparently not familiar with that. I've seen a similar error come across my desk and I quickly put them right. Glad you got it sorted out, BUT your point to Kram is correct - $12,000 in alleged undisclosed income got you a $40,000 bill.
 
Kram you need to realize you are badly misinformed if you think this isn't something to be concerned about - I'm guessing from your denials that you have made a bit of money from Bitcoin over 2017? Best you go see an accountant / tax preparer who knows what they are doing. If you get onto it before the IRS does, you can cut that penalty down significantly and get away with as low as 5% penalty depending how soon you act.
 
 
post edited by Nereus - 2018/03/25 13:39:56


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#34
mike406
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 19:07:25 (permalink)
Guys, enough with the you know what measuring. Just get off each other. We can all agree that you should pay your taxes, and the ones that ignorantly don't deserve what they get. 

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#35
kram36
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 19:47:45 (permalink)
mike406
Guys, enough with the you know what measuring. Just get off each other. We can all agree that you should pay your taxes, and the ones that ignorantly don't deserve what they get. 


You're right, the person exchanged Bitcoin into USD at the tune of "around $120k" and didn't set any back to pay taxes with. I mean seriously, how dumb can you get? Oh I know, take that USD and exchange it for alt coin cryptocurrencies when you could have done that with their Bitcoin in the first place. Matter of fact they probably had to exchange their USD back into Bitcoin in order to get those alt coin cryptocurrencies. Only a few alt coins can be purchased directly with the USD, the rest have to be exchanged for Bitcoin, Ethereum or a exchange exclusive alt coins. This person made mistakes 6 was to Sunday.
#36
knightsilver
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/25 22:38:42 (permalink)
Crypto mining is Skynet...
#37
panzlock
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/26 06:57:35 (permalink)
Must I read it all?
#38
EddieH
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/26 12:21:07 (permalink)
Locking Thread for Review
#39
Cool GTX
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Re: Nvidia wary of possible cryptocurrency demand drop 2018/03/26 13:04:28 (permalink)
Unlocking for Now
 
Please keep your post On Topic 
 
 
this thread is not about Taxes we seem to have jumped the tracks
 
 

 
 
 
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