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AnsweredNew Cooler and an Oddity ( solved ) + 9700KF Experiment

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cotter32
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2023/04/02 00:04:06 (permalink)
The Cooler:
I noticed that there was still a little room left in my all EVGA computers SilverStone GD08 horizontal case,
so I found a bigger CPU cooler to put in it .  The existing Noctua NHU9S was replaced with a new
Thermal Right Silver Soul 135 .  I also replaced  all the case fans with five new Noctua NFP12 Redux
PMW fans ( for quietness ), and got some shorter cables to reduce clutter .  The Noctua worked good,
but was over-loaded when over-clocking .  Something larger was needed .
Nearly the entire machine had to be disassembled, and reassembled to do this, but that's life
in the fast lane, eh ?
 
Below is the Noctua NHU9S before removal .

 
c
Below is the Thermal Right Siler Soul 135 installed .

c
Below is a look at the clearence between the case lid, and the top of the new cooler .

c
Next, ready to close with new cooler, fans, and cables ... and about fifty tie-wraps :)

c
Finally, ready to go back on the end table .

c
 
 
Testing .  Time Spy Extreme set at custom, 2K monitor res.  All case fans, and CPU fan 100% speed .
 
Below at 5 GHz before new cooler .  CPU up to 90C .  Bad .

c1
 
At 5 GHz After new cooler .  CPU just below 80C .  Much better .  GPU fan on manual 100% .

c2
 
At 5 GHz, new cooler with GPU fans on "Aggressive", rather than manual 100% .  CPU just under 80C .

c3
 
At 4 GHz standard After new cooler with GPU fans on "Aggressive" .  CPU up to about 62C .  Nice .

c4
 
The Oddity:  ( solved at the bottom )
I used EVGA Precision X1 software to set the RTX 3080 GPU fan speeds for the benchmark tests above .
All settings were left on default except running the fans on auto "aggressive", or manual 100% speed .
In the first Time Spy screen shot above, c1, and the last two, c3 and c4, the fans were set to auto
"Aggressive" .  In screen shot c2 the fans are set to manual 100% .
The oddity is that the GPU temp. is cooler when run on auto aggressive, than on 100% speed .
The difference being 74C vs 81C .  It's also repeatable .
Is it possible that the fans cavitate at 100% speed ?  Air recirculation ?
I don't know, it may remain a mystery, but I do know I'm pleased with my new cooler :)
 
P.S. Vcore for test c1 1.283v, tests c2 and c3 1.280v, test c4 automatic .
 
EVGA Z370 ClassifiedK MB, 8086K CPU, 32 gb Gskill TridZ 3200 Mghz DDR4, EVGA RTX 3080 GPU,
Gig 1 tb NVMe PCIe AIC, Sam 870 EVO 1tb SATA SSD, WD 2tb silent HDD, LG BDRW .
SilverStone GD08 horizontal case .
 
 
Too The Moon !
 
post edited by cotter32 - 2023/05/13 23:57:24
#1
SM-71
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/03 11:28:15 (permalink)
cotter32
The oddity is that the GPU temp. is cooler when run on auto aggressive, than on 100% speed .
The difference being 74C vs 81C .  It's also repeatable .
Is it possible that the fans cavitate at 100% speed ?  Air recirculation ?



Nice build!  I applaud your patience, I don't have enough patience to work in a horizontal case anymore - other then the Corsair Air 540 in horizontal orientation.  Far too cramped for my liking.  Though eventually I want to build a small rack mount system with a nice horizontal tray... tray being the operative word... nice large open space tray, easy to work with, plenty of room, etc....  Rack mount to house computer & 2 battery backup units for up to 90 minutes backup time!  Still a long way off on that one.
 
Interesting finding with the fan speed, turbulence is the word you're looking for btw, cavitation happens within fluids & there's no direct equivalent phenomenon in aerodynamics.  The higher the air speed, the greater the possibility for turbulence especially with 3 fans very close together.  I'll have to do some testing of my own, though I won't see that much drop in temps, even at 225MHz overclock my 4070Ti barely tops off at 65C in Kombustor with a half hour run vs 58C at stock speed - both are when fan is manually set to 100%.

Rebuild 2.0 Specs:  Phantek's Enthoo Pro Full Tower case * Gigabyte Z690 Gaming X DDR4 motherboard * Intel i9-13900KS CPU with Kraken X63 AIO * WIN 11 PRO 64bit * MSI 4070 Ti Gaming X Trio GPU * Corsair Vengeance 64GB(4x16GB) RAM * Solidigm P44 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD (Win11 Pro) + Intel 665p 1TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 990 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 980 1TB M.2 NVMe (Ubuntu) * Seasonic Vertex GX-1200 1200W ATX 3.0 PSU * Samsung 50 inch QN90A 4K TV/monitor * FANS: Bitfenix Spectre Pro 200mm front intake + 2x Noctua NF-A14 Industrial PPC 140mm exhaust on Kraken X63 radiator + 1 Noctua NF-A12 120mm rear intake
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Delirious
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/05 09:52:30 (permalink)
Nice work!

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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/05 19:58:15 (permalink)
 
Thanks SM-71, and Delirious .  It did take patience .  Luckily, I had 3 weeks while I waited for my cables to arrive .
SiverStone didn't make it any easier with their over-size drive cage either, but it's nice when it's done .
The whole thing measures only 17 1/2 x 17 1/2 x 7 inches on the desk .  It's meant to be able to sit
on a stereo rack .  If I remember correctly there are even some handles for it around here somewhere .
As for my GPU fan oddity, I suppose it could be caused by my case not being tall enough .
There is only about 1 1/4 inches from the edge of the Graphics card, to the bottom of the case lid .
 
P.S. SM-71, that's a pretty maxed-out EVGA Z370 board you got there 
 
Too The Moon !
 
 
post edited by cotter32 - 2023/04/05 20:00:20
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Hoggle
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/05 21:28:54 (permalink)
I would agree that the oddity is probably caused by turbulence or air buffering. If air is being moved around the case faster than it's being pushed out of the case.
 
Looking at the case fans I realized that you have the case fans on the top blowing air downward and I think it might be better to reverse those unless I am wrong on that model of fan. Almost always the brackets mean are the direction of exhaust and you want hot air to rise out not be pushed in. 

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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/07 12:01:45 (permalink)
A very nice horizontal build, which is very rare, 

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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/08 18:04:56 (permalink)
Hoggle;
Here's my fan layout below .  The two 80mm fans at the top of the pic blow out, and the five 120mm
fans, two on the side, and three on the bottom, blow in .  Noctua fans generally blow out on the label side .
If you expand the top picture above a little bit the lighting is right to see the rotation direction
and flow direction arrows on three of them .  Still not sure about my fan oddity, but it might be at least
somewhat from turbulence because the GPU fans run at 3,300 RPM on full speed, maybe too fast ?
... or it might not be that at all .

GD08 case w/o drive tray seen from top .
 
...........................................................................................................................................

...........................................................................................................................................
GD08 assembly view from manual
 
 
rjohnson11;
Thanks very much .  I managed to do it without breaking anything :)
 
Too The Moon !
 
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Hoggle
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/09 02:50:16 (permalink)
I was thinking of a stand up case with the PSU on the bottom so looking at it I was thinking the side fans blew in. With the compression on the site, it's really hard to see the arrow on the fans.

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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/09 16:20:24 (permalink)
cotter32
SM-71, that's a pretty maxed-out EVGA Z370 board you got there 



It was indeed!  I haven't gotten around to re-writing my signature yet.  That rig is gone, sold the major components that I wasn't reusing & built my new rig!  
 
 
Checked out fan speed on my GPU, started at 60% & went up 5% each time, then switched over to automatic fan control, 100% fan speed gave best temp and highest overclock.   Limited space within that horizontal case could be the difference.
post edited by SM-71 - 2023/04/09 16:23:29

Rebuild 2.0 Specs:  Phantek's Enthoo Pro Full Tower case * Gigabyte Z690 Gaming X DDR4 motherboard * Intel i9-13900KS CPU with Kraken X63 AIO * WIN 11 PRO 64bit * MSI 4070 Ti Gaming X Trio GPU * Corsair Vengeance 64GB(4x16GB) RAM * Solidigm P44 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD (Win11 Pro) + Intel 665p 1TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 990 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 980 1TB M.2 NVMe (Ubuntu) * Seasonic Vertex GX-1200 1200W ATX 3.0 PSU * Samsung 50 inch QN90A 4K TV/monitor * FANS: Bitfenix Spectre Pro 200mm front intake + 2x Noctua NF-A14 Industrial PPC 140mm exhaust on Kraken X63 radiator + 1 Noctua NF-A12 120mm rear intake
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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/09 18:08:32 (permalink)
SM-71 and Hoggle, I think you guys are right .  I am getting hot air recirculation at 100% GPU fan speed .  Too close to the top of the case :(
This machine does have its limitations, but luckily I don't use 100% GPU fan speed much anyway .  Mostly just gaming, and general use desktop .
For that everything stays nice, and cool, and runs good ... and it gives me a place to set my printer on top of :)   Thank you both for your thoughts .
SM-71, your new computer is great, BDRW drive, too .  Appealing 
... and now, back to Resident Evil 4, ( Sajin approved ) .
 
Too The Moon !
 
 
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/09 18:29:04 (permalink)
cotter32
... and now, back to Resident Evil 4, ( Sajin approved ) .

*Thumbs up* :D
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/18 16:30:31 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Cool GTX 2023/04/19 06:37:12
Good news, everyone !
I've been considering this GPU fan/temp. oddity in the light of what you all have said, and noticed that
the ATX cable can take the long way around the graphics card and be raised up off of the bottom case fan grills .
So, I did that; and it resulted in clearing fan obstructions, and rerouting some air flow to the fan side of the GPU .
c
Below is the new ATX cable route .  Hard to see, but the cable is actually suspended above the fans .

c
Below with drive tray reinstalled .  ATX cable is big black snake on either side of graphics card .

c
It was worthwhile because it brought much better GPU cooling at 100% fan speed than before
in the same TimeSpy Extreme test .  Down from 80c to about 63c at 100% GPU fan speed .
c
Below is at 5GHz after reroute .  GPU fan 100% .  Max. GPU temp. 63c .

c
Below is at 5GHz after reroute .  GPU fan on AUTO "AGRESSIVE" .  Max. GPU temp. about 73c .

c
Running at 4GHz shows the same improvements of course because CPU speed doesn't greatly effect
GPU load in the graphics portion of TimeSpy Extreme .
The PrecisionX1 aggressive GPU fan setting seems to have benefitted by a couple of degrees also :)
I've learned two things:  Clearing the fans, and cable routing in a small case ARE important .
At least in my case .
 
Too The Moon ... with a cool GPU .
 
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Cool GTX
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/19 06:38:22 (permalink)
Thanks for the update,  good to see you found the airflow obstruction & were able to address it & get better cooling for the GPU
 
Congrats on the rebuild & that is some great documentation of your results
 
You might want to edit your first Post & the title to the Thread ... add something like, Resolved

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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/19 09:14:03 (permalink)
Okay I know the cables are suspended away from the fans.  Nice touch running it along the fan guards.
They're still interfering though, with the CPU cooler.
The area around the 24-pin plug.
I'd look at tucking it in the opposite direction so that it's folded down between the motherboard tray and the fans toward the front.
I don't know how taut some of those cables are, but it looks like you have enough to simply route them along the top/back of the fans with as little interference as you currently, simply by strategically taking up the slack.


 
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/19 17:49:06 (permalink)
That's a roger, Cool GTX .  Also, thanks, and microsoft snipping tool was my documentation friend :)
 
Too The Moon ... in jpeg format .
 
 
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/04/19 19:04:32 (permalink)
charlesborner, Thanks for noticing .  You are right to say that the ATX cable interferes with air going to the CPU cooler; it does,
but it's still about 3/4" from the cooler after final install .  I'm not too worried though because the CPU cooler gets air from the
two 120mm side fans right next to it .  It's the one really nice thing about this case .  The CPU power cable takes a path pretty
much exactly as you suggest .  It has to since it is only just long enough to make the trip :)
As for the ATX cable, first I have to say I was very reluctant to change it at all since it is hard as iron, and I had to rebend it at
the 24-pin plug end nearly 180 degrees .  But it survived .
I think the ATX cable kind of goes as you suggest toward the back ( front of case ) .  This will be hard to describe, so I will use
a couple of pictures I had previously rejected for poor quality .  Appologies in advance .
c
Below is the ATX cable looping almost to the front of the computer .  After the drive cage is in it goes forward even a little more .

c
Below is ATX cable final position up against the forward end of the drive cage .

c
If you look past the end of the graphics card above you'll see a shelf sticking out from the bottom of
the drive cage toward the viewer .  It has gray/black rubber on top of it, and a shiny painted edge .
It over-laps the front edge of the gray fan .  The cable loop can settle on that, but it won't .  Too stiff .
Below is an old pic of the inside of the drive cage .  The graphics card, and cables go in the center bay .

The above drive cage is turned around 180, then installed in the case shown behind .
Hah, sorry for being so long winded :)
 
To The Moon !
 
 
 
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/13 23:53:34 (permalink)
Ok, so I've got my graphics card temperature under control, now it's time to shift attention to
the other side of the machine .  What follows is an experiment purely for you amusement :)
I decided to get an equivalent, but cooler running CPU to replace my beloved i7-8086K,
and install the new processor with liquid metal thermal grease .  The risk here is that the CPU
I chose, an i7-9700KF, has the potential to run hotter, rather than cooler .
So, let's find out :|
 
Here's the new CPU

 
 
I used Thermal Grizzly liquid metal thermal grease on both the CPU, and heat sink per the directions .
It took me a good 30 minutes, not counting pre-cleaning time, to scrub the liquid metal on to the surfaces,
and then remove the excess .  It's not oily like regular paste, so it does not automatically cling to metal surfaces .
The effort proved to be worth it .
Below is the old 8086K overclocked to 5Ghz running TimeSpy Extreme using 2K custom setting .
 

 
The 8086K is running near 80C during the CPU portion of the test ( right side above ) .
The graphics score is 15738, and the CPU score is 4077 @ 5 Ghz .
Below the new i7-9700KF is running the same test, and is set to mother board XMP-1 auto settings .
 

 
 
The 9700K is running around 74-77C in the CPU test .  A little tiny bit less than the 8086K .
The graphics score is 15573, and CPU score is 4046 .  Very nearly as good as the 8086K at 5 Ghz .
Above the 9700K is running between 4.6 and 4.8 Ghz .  This is better than expected, but what
can it do at 5 Ghz ?  Below is the 9700K @ 5 Ghz, same test .
 

 
 
Surprisingly, the CPU temperature hasn't really gone up .  This in spite of me having set the voltage up to 1.31v !
Temperatures still about 74C to, maybe, 78C .  Graphics score 15793, and CPU score 4371 .
Good job, Intel .  The new processor overclocks easily, and runs cool .  It also keeps the 3080 graphics card fed
well enough to get into the upper 50% of all TimeSpy Extreme scores when run at 4K setting for an officially,
valid benchmark as seen below .
 
 
 
Above it scored Graphics 8605, CPU score 4373, Over-all score 7514, and still stayed about 74 - 77C CPU temp.
I think this experiment was somewhat successful, and that I got a faster computer out of it 
 
P.S. I hope you were all very well entertained .
 
 
Too The Moon !
 
 
post edited by cotter32 - 2023/05/14 00:06:44
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Cool GTX
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/17 07:34:44 (permalink)
Nice results, Congrats

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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/18 07:46:58 (permalink)
cotter32
 

c
Below is ATX cable final position up against the forward end of the drive cage .

c
If you look past the end of the graphics card above you'll see a shelf sticking out from the bottom of
the drive cage toward the viewer .  It has gray/black rubber on top of it, and a shiny painted edge .
It over-laps the front edge of the gray fan .  The cable loop can settle on that, but it won't .  Too stiff .
Below is an old pic of the inside of the drive cage .  The graphics card, and cables go in the center bay .

The above drive cage is turned around 180, then installed in the case shown behind .
Hah, sorry for being so long winded :)
 
To The Moon !
 
 

very clean!

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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/21 19:48:03 (permalink)
Thank you donta1979, Delirious, and Cool GTX .  I had a lot of fun with this one .
Now that this post is back from the recycle bin I'm deleting the other one
to save space .  It's all duplicate info. of what's here .
 
Too The Moon !
 
 
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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/21 19:55:58 (permalink)
My appologies, couldn't figure it out :(
 
 
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cotter32
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Re: New Cooler and an Oddity 2023/05/28 22:17:00 (permalink)
... and Cooler still .
I had one more card to play in the lower the temps. game,
so I pulled off the case air filter screens, took the printer off the top,
and scooted the machine to the corner of the end table it sits on that
is farthest from the wall and desk .  Then ran the same TimeSpy Extreme
test as above at 4K and 5 Ghz .  The results were good, so I used Precision X1
slider controls to increase the power, and frequency levels of the GPU for a better
TimeSpy Extreme score as seen below .
c

c
Maximum GPU temp. is down to about 61C, and CPU temp. range is about 68 to 73 C .
I have to say EVGA's XC3 GPU cooler works really good .  You just have to get some air
to it .  The same for the Thermal Right 135 Silver Soul CPU cooler .
Well, that's probably about it for this 5 year old mother board .  Not much more up grade possible .
So, now I'll probably have to turn my attention back to my "new" Gigabyte Z690 computer 
 
 
Too The Moon ... on Liquid Metal, baby .
 
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