dang still messed-up 
 
Better check your Rigs
 
I sure hope this is the last "root cause"
 
 
(excerpts) (bold added)
 
"statement Intel posted on its website on Monday (22/07)" - "faulty processor microcode has been causing the processors to operate under excessive core voltages, leading to their structural degradation over time. "We have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor."
 
"Intel is releasing yet another microcode update to its 13th- and 14th Gen Core processors, which will address not just the faulty boosting algorithm issue the company unearthed in June, but also the faulty voltage management the company discovered now. This new microcode should be released some time around mid-August to partners (motherboard manufacturers and PC OEMs), who will then need to validate it on their machines, before passing it along to end-users as UEFI firmware updates."
 
"It's important to note here, that the microcode update won't fix the issues on processors already experiencing instability, but prevent it on chips that aren't. The instability is caused by irreversible physical degradation of the chip. These chips will, of course, be covered under warranty."

ursatz

Cool GTX
Better check your Rigs

This is what I really wish I knew.  How to check? 
 
My 13900KS has never crashed and seems to be fine.  Running a mild overclock with Intel's IXT.  Does run hot in benchmarks for sure - like hits 100 in Cinebench 2024, but near as I can tell scores are as expected.  But I'd really like to know if the poor CPU is slowly degrading without me recognizing it.
 
Thoughts?
 
 
Ben
 
13900KS
Corsair Dominator DDR5 32GB 6200
MSI Z790 ACE
Seasonic GX1200
MSI 4090 Gaming X Trio
2x Samsung 990pro
Corsair H170i Elite
wrapped up in a Corsair 7000D

Nice Rig
 
Use or increase your AVX offset, to control thermals if you using software that uses AVX
 
What I was implying:
 
1) I'd use a fixed OC settings, fixed Voltage & not rely on the old microcode 
 
 
2) If you have had any issues, I'd contact Intel about a warranty replacement as the faulty microcode is causing physical (permanent) damage to the CPU

 
Problem is how many manufacturers are going to issue bios updates for this? EVGA made it pretty clear they won't be doing any more updates whatsoever, which is extremely frustrating when some of these boards cost $800+ with taxes.
 
 

ilukeberry
Intel might force them to update their BIOS. I think there are some contract obligations if you use their socket.

That would be great!
 
edit: I've emailed EVGA to try to get some clarification on this. I'll post if I get a response.
 
If an update is required, my guess is they'll stall until Z890 comes out, then say Z790 is end of line and no longer supported.
 
My laptop may also be impacted (i9-13980HX), although I expect ASUS will push out an update via Armoury Crate as soon as it's available. So far everything is running fine for me with CPU running at stock.

ilukeberry
Including new microcode to BIOS should be trivial task to do. @Nereus please post EVGA response if you get it.

Will do. IF I get a response. I emailed to Chris Bencivenga, so I'm assuming he still works there....
 

 
Interesting news - Intel just announced an additional 2 years of warranty on the 13th & 14th gen processors. (link)
 

Sajin

Nereus
 
Interesting news - Intel just announced an additional 2 years of warranty on the 13th & 14th gen processors. (link)
 

Nice. 

That is to try and avoid a class action lawsuit

Going to make it easy for a lot of you, if you have a 13th gen i9 or i7 whatever that has suffered from oxidization just RMA it if its a tray/oem processor well here is how you have to handle those since Intel is saying they will not do it directly.
Additional Warranty Updates on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop Processors - Intel Community

First you will need the following a Thermalright or Thermal Grizzly Correction frame/contact frame...
I suggest you get a cryo pad while you get the torque screws on teh bracket/frame just right, Then you can use paste, or a honeywell pad to whatever once you know you got it just right.
If you are really worried about the torque specs you can find them on OCN I do believe or maybe the HWBOT forums.

Next if you want full frequency speeds with the cpu going all out at max voltages you name it well you will need to do a delid or go with a more exotic form of cooling be it an super overkill water setup, phase change, an EK Delta2 Tec setup with 3x360 or 420 rads, with a pump for each and a good sized res.

If you want to use an air cooler or A non-Direct Die AIO"there is only one of those"
I strongly suggest you limit your P cores to 55-57 and your E cores down to 40-42, then click enforce all limits in the bios that is the easy way.

Now if you want to custom tune yourself to get more performance same thing on the P and E cores, select let the bios optimize it instead. Net you will want to find the sweet spot for the V/F Point offsets I like to start at the point 5.8 then manually change all points of 6ghz+ with a negative offset. My cpu is horrible in terms of quality so all of mine range from .45 up to .5X depending on what point it is past 5.8ghz. This is basically to help keep the vcore under control and the VID.  You do not have to but I like to set my Power Max PL1 to 260 and my Short Power max to 320 if you are just gaming if you enforce all limits you will probably not even get close to 240w and with let the bios optimize you will top out at around 280-310w depending on your settings. Next if you notice with all your tweaking your VID is kind of high the joys of the ring being on a single rail so you will want to manually set your IA VR Voltage Limit anywhere from 1400-1500 this will all depend on how you set other settings its a balancing act then each chip is different on top of it so how my chip behaves it will probably not do the same for you on what it likes.

If you want to find the sweet spots well you do this all in the bios save and exit, get into windows then run 3dmark timespy the cpu test only 6-12 times to get an average and make sure you do not go to high or too low on your voltages to voltage negative offsets. You do this though your vcore, vid will not get out of control your cpu will stay cool enough including the ring so it does not degrade and turn back into sand. Use the proper cooling for the speeds you are shooting for. It matters a lot... If you want to play full yeeted clocks doing extreme enthusiast/XOC Foo be ready to have the proper cooling to do it and be willing to tweak/tame it regardless to get the most out of it more so than you could ever get out of the box and just slapping the cpu in not doing much of anything, without proper cooling etc etc. All of that combined the stock clocks, vs the voltage vs the heat vs the microcode bug vs the motherboard manufacturer not sure what to do besides try to beat their competitors like AMD and Intel are trying to top the stupid tech tuber charts in this marketing poo show with use consumers be damned I feel bad for the average user caught up in all of this. With the tech tubers screaming doom and gloom without giving a solution. 

Oh Frame Chasers does have a guide if you are degraded and have to wait on an RMA since intel is well up poo creek on what to do to get your cpu at least running/stable and working without degrading it further. No it's not going to fix it, if the chip is not too far gone it will at least get you by yet you can reach a point of no return its just going to run well bad no matter what you do....

The big plus about this is US KS owners get 2 years, OEM/Tray Owners now get 2 years, and regular boxed retail chip owers get a whole five years. So now I have a 13900k and 14900ki I won't delid that are both tuned+tamed. One with has 4 years left the other has 5 years. So that is the only real good thing to come out of this and to bring this issue to light, sadly the clueless techtubers won't make the lga1700 mounting hardware flaw an issue. How most are handling it I know they do not care about helping their audience. They just want views/clicks and will scream doom and gloom to do so. Notice how amd that also will degrade if not controlled is not being brought up by them it just happens slower unless you click the bios AI OC.....

We as extreme enthusiast/xocers have a choice in this matter, listen to the useless tech tubers and become a victim woe is me, or do what we have always done, do extreme enthusiast/xocer stuff and fix it our way without gimping our performance like we have been seeing on these intel bios updates and now microcode updates.

There is more to this, this is about at short as I will make it without writing a full novel. Hope this helps some people. You take the time to do what I typed and do a little work sorry on voltages there is not a one size fits all each chip is different. Plus them being overly binned makes it harder to just give a one size fits all its why intel just goes to the nerf/gimp nuclear option. But you do what I said it will work better than it ever did out of the box, the voltage tables, frequencies, nor the microcode will have any effect on you and won't degrade your chip if you take full control. GL 

Lastly since I know people it is the internet someone will come raving we should not have to do all of this! Guess What I agree! Guess what it's not a perfect world so go without, go with amd, go with a downgrade, hope the next bios and microcode update resolves it probably won't. I am disappointed in both AMD and Intel, I am laughing at all the big tech tubers GN, HW Unboxed, Linus, etc etc, even Jay who we all know came from these forums, didn't have a channel asked us what we would like to see for content to what he can do better. Well somebody seems to have forgotten what we told him years ago as he is doing what the rest of the self-righteous tech tubers are doing, while they do not offer a solution, and are in a big way responsible with amd and intel in this whole situation with their little benching out of the box having amd and intel willing to screw their customers to top those charts for marketing. Just saying.... The best thing to come out of this was the 5 year warranty and 2 year for oem/tray, plus the issues being brought to light, yet some of this minus the oxidation could have been avoided by just the tech tubers alone not giving amd and intel a new marketing angle that hurts actual customers that are not as knowledgeable as some of us. OK GN just my two cents and advice on the subject.

 
Gamers Nexus just put out a video with more info on this topic (link) - it seems Intel have released some sort of initial microcode update and only ASUS and MSI have issued beta BIOS so far. No reviews yet.
 

Mellenius

Nereus
If an update is required, my guess is they'll stall until Z890 comes out, then say Z790 is end of line and no longer supported.

EVGA has had no Bios Teams since Spring of 2023. They would need to hire outside contractors to write any updates to the UEFI and that can be both expensive and risky as most likely anyone they could hire to write a UEFI update would not be someone familiar with their motherboards possibly leading to all sorts of quirks.

EVGA issued a BIOS update for the Z790 in April this year for those who requested it, so they clearly have someone available or hired someone to do so. I have zero experience in BIOS coding, but I've been led to believe a microcode update from Intel is not a major mission to amend to a BIOS and roll out. I could be wrong though. As others have suggested, they may not have a choice if it is a contractual obligation with Intel sockets. Hopefully we'll hear something soon one way or the other.

Nereus
 
From EVGA today (08/21): "We currently do not have any updates to report and we are waiting to hear from Intel."
 

That is not super helpful (from them, not you)...sounds like they are pushing this off on Intel somehow. Or maybe they mean, Intel hasn't forced us to do anything yet lol.