kerryd
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 01:22:29
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widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
Let me know when a kindergartener can spend $2k + on top of $200+ a month to fold.What it comes down to is if we want to say blank you Stanford its up to us. You are in the wrong Widss if your not I will sell you 2 4p's for what I got in them 1k and you can give the power comp. min. of $60 a month each to run SMP on them. I can run both my i7 2600k's +my 12 core and 6 gpu's for the cost of 1 of the 4p's. Last time [link=mailto:f@h]f@h[/link] did this I started crunching , had 1 comp.crunching from that time forword most the time. I built most my gear on MIN WAGE now you saying I am a crying 4 year old for ****ing about throwing $1k in the garbage.Well I am glad your rich I sure am not so ya I will take what gear I have where I want to.I for 1 have upgraded my last gpu or computer for stanford.That is $3 k this year . I am one of the few ones on this team that have no reason to fold or crunch for that matter.I fold and crunch because I like reading what most post here and it was away to become a part of that . At this point think I will just turn every thing off.
 
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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 02:11:41
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Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 03:53:40
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kerryd
widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
Let me know when a kindergartener can spend $2k + on top of $200+ a month to fold.What it comes down to is if we want to say blank you Stanford its up to us. You are in the wrong Widss if your not I will sell you 2 4p's for what I got in them 1k and you can give the power comp. min. of $60 a month each to run SMP on them. I can run both my i7 2600k's +my 12 core and 6 gpu's for the cost of 1 of the 4p's.
Last time [link=mailto:f@h]f@h[/link] did this I started crunching , had 1 comp.crunching from that time forword most the time.
I built most my gear on MIN WAGE now you saying I am a crying 4 year old for ****ing about throwing $1k in the garbage.Well I am glad your rich I sure am not so ya I will take what gear I have where I want to.I for 1 have upgraded my last gpu or computer for stanford.That is $3 k this year .
I am one of the few ones on this team that have no reason to fold or crunch for that matter.I fold and crunch because I like reading what most post here and it was away to become a part of that .
At this point think I will just turn every thing off.
Good job widsss!!! You got somebody to quit folding. Oh wait.. that's exactly what you are criticizing us for. And I bet you think you are still right. What a tard. kerryd: don't let that jerk run you off. Go crunching for a bit, try it you'll like it.
post edited by Horvat - 2013/12/22 03:55:04
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 04:02:57
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Well Enough can be said by good discussion guys - Wide ranging views are all correct Don't take anyone comments too seriously guys - we are one team - and we are "ALL TRYING TO WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND IT ALL" Ive gone thru this last time - seeing my 3930k go by the wayside - and seeing slower SR-2's able to do bigadv while i could not (I was getting more than others with SR-2's before change) as was noted on vijay's post... 2 slow cpu's WU are worth less than a single doing same WU in same time (according to them) and reasoning for upping is to get rid of slow machines yet my system was dropped to SMP for 1/3 what I was getting under Bigadv while a slower machine was allowed to continue contradicts reasoning doesn't it - LOL and why the measurement should be benchmarking individual machines (every so often run a 5 or 10 min benchmark WU to validate your system) The reason for the change is changing hardware - like I said 15core XEON's (4P setup) - 120 thread (or core) machines this year next year is Haswell v3 Xeons coming (aka 4th Q) assume 15 as this years baseline - what will v3 bring ...24 core? - sr-X(2) 48c/96t on 2P ? why would they keep bigadv WU's designed for smaller(older) CPU's when they have new 200 core 4P's to play with? look at it from their prospective - hardware is advancing so why design cutting edge work for older machines when you can work bigger problems with newer machines (bigger atoms counts) it might mean pushing old WU's to SMP as well and devaluing older SMP units again too (something Im against) I mean how many people want to see shrinking returns (diminishing points on older hardware until it becomes like unicore)? if you want to stay on the bigadv bandwagon then you are gonna have to re-invest every year or two(with cpu changes coming rapidly) if you want ankle biters then you have to buy cheap use 4P stuff every year again Vijay said another change in 4Q 3014 - that indicates a change with the coming Xeon v3 Id say unless you have deep pockets don't bother unless you go modern(newest tech) for 2yrs stint at least remember GPU bigadv maybe coming - if a gpu(780 or titan) is 6x better than cpu(3930k) than it's equivalent to a 36c/72t machine - so it should be able to do larger work issue is gpu stability - and current gpu driver issues like I said rebalance of some kind has to come - going from big adv to smp... I lost 2/3 PPD - not fair or right so bigadv was way too inflated and why everyone jumped on the bigadv bandwagon maybe the way to go is GPU farms again
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2013/12/22 04:21:41
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texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 04:28:02
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Yes, I think what this whole change is coming down to, will be a narrowing of the Bigadv donor field. There will be a smaller field going forward of people that can invest the kind of money to stay up with Stanford's equipment expectations. It is going to knock me out eventually and then I won't return. I've reached the limits of what I will do to chase Bigadv and feel that it will happen to other Bigadv Folders too. So, the facts (as they appear) is that you will have to be a Folder with very large bucks for expensive Servers to play in the Bigadv arena. I do understand what Stanford wants to do...I question if they will ultimately get what they want or lose so many Bigadv participants that the field is too small for production. Could be a Catch-22.
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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 04:31:52
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IF they were doing away with P81xx WU you would think they'd say so and that the new replacement will demand such CPU power as you describe, but no where have I seen such a statement, so that leads me to believe there is no change so no need for this change they are making simply because the hardware we are using right at this moment fulfills those needs and completes well within the deadline time now set, again no need to change deadlines or the hardware being use that is already very well keeping up with there demands, at times now they can't keep up with us as is and has to off load other WU's to bigadv rigs until they can get more bigadv ready for download. 
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 04:42:44
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Given that in 2010 there were half a million active donors/machines and FAH said then they should have a rep for the donors to trade information back and forth.
Given that it is the end of 2013 and they have less that 250,000 donors/machines working and still no rep (but again they are discussing it).
I've not seen a change in FAH other than the dropping donor/machine count. FAH is saying the scientist need longer trajectories (I'm thinking bigger work units) to use rather than short ones as the longer trajectories give them a far better idea of how the proteins are reacting. I understand that now.
I do foresee a near future where donors other than large corporate iron will not be needed. I think that day is coming sooner than later.
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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 04:51:28
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Rally the troops, we done it to take back #1 we can now do it to wake up PG.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 05:33:58
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TheWolf
IF they were doing away with P81xx WU you would think they'd say so and that the new replacement will demand
such CPU power as you describe, but no where have I seen such a statement, so that leads me to believe there
is no change so no need for this change they are making simply because the hardware we are using right at this
moment fulfills those needs and completes well within the deadline time now set, again no need to change deadlines
or the hardware being use that is already very well keeping up with there demands, at times now they can't keep
up with us as is and has to off load other WU's to bigadv rigs until they can get more bigadv ready for download.
just because we don't see a need doesn't mean there isn't one.... we could be unaware of current research or WU's they are planning that current machines can't run simply saying because we don't see a need (because we are on the outside - not on the inside knowing what research they want to do) we don't need to change hardware just how do you know how your machine will fill their needs now or future? this is why Vijay and staff need PR and information sent out to the donors (US) current Wu's will work with the new systems, it just be faster- until research is done- then you offload new-similair ones to SMP and you could bring in new WU's doing bigger atoms and modeling. Remember desktop CPU's are getting bigger too so they are able to handle bigger atom counts too (8 core/16t) The problem I see is seeing low PPD for bigger and bigger SMP WU's...something a number of us have been complaining about
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Afterburner
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 08:23:56
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Everyone... I deliberately stayed on the sidelines this time around. Last time (Nov 2011) I was one of the soap box voices. What did I learn... - We are using systems we built because we
- Want to help others
- Value community involvement
- Enjoy learning and creating high production "Stuff"
- We are human.
- As humans we can be reactive and even emotional when our creations are no longer the chosen.
- Change happens
- The true value in change, is our own and how we adapt
- Giving back by using the systems we build, for all of humanity overcomes personal feelings of our "Perceved to have been" disrespected systems
- We all come from all walks of life and should embrace it
And I offer this personal thought.... More often than not, challenges created better situations that no one could imagine before the initial change. So here is my input to this situation... I am embracing the change. I am very pleased to see Stanford achieve the levels they have through volunteered production. There will be thousands that will march on with them. I will not be one of them. I can no longer see the value of spending $5000+ annually just to keep up when other equally or even more deserving projects do not require my re-tooling at all. Heck I can still run my Quad Core laptop and be productive. And yes, I do realize that I can run my Quad core with F@H. However, that is not an apples to apples when looking at other projects... The feedback I see from everyone is logical. And I offer this... Stay strong. Do a little research... "Breeeeeeeeath"... And you may find a place that makes you strive/thrive again. We are one team united. The same passion we offer when we are upset, drives us when we are excited/happy. So it does not matter if we bitcon it, or crunch it or fold it or whatever is next. We crush it! "That" is what makes us one of the strongest teams in the world.
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 09:15:51
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 Afterburner Hear here!, I second That AB's Post.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/22 09:18:51
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cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 10:55:11
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kerryd
widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
Let me know when a kindergartener can spend $2k + on top of $200+ a month to fold.What it comes down to is if we want to say blank you Stanford its up to us. You are in the wrong Widss if your not I will sell you 2 4p's for what I got in them 1k and you can give the power comp. min. of $60 a month each to run SMP on them. I can run both my i7 2600k's +my 12 core and 6 gpu's for the cost of 1 of the 4p's.
Last time [link=mailto:f@h]f@h[/link] did this I started crunching , had 1 comp.crunching from that time forword most the time.
I built most my gear on MIN WAGE now you saying I am a crying 4 year old for ****ing about throwing $1k in the garbage.Well I am glad your rich I sure am not so ya I will take what gear I have where I want to.I for 1 have upgraded my last gpu or computer for stanford.That is $3 k this year .
I am one of the few ones on this team that have no reason to fold or crunch for that matter.I fold and crunch because I like reading what most post here and it was away to become a part of that .
At this point think I will just turn every thing off.
KERRYD, we could REALLY USE YOUR HELP in the Christmas Challenge as Tex had to bow out due to Christmas guests and the heat of the crunch. Ninth place and climbing but short on time. Please do not let one person's opinion put an end to all the great work that you have done. Need your help buddy, don't stop now, it Christmas.
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clo007
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:18:50
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I have decided I will keep my ankle-biters going till they can go no further. That was the reason for the purchase, so I will do it.
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:26:03
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Good clo... then if you wish run them for WCG... it's a win/win for both the EVGA teams.
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cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:26:24
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clo007
I have decided I will keep my ankle-biters going till they can go no further. That was the reason for the purchase, so I will do it.
I can respect that decision. When they can no longer do bigadv work they can do some awesome crunching. Not a total loss dollar wise. You have come a long way in a short time, good job.
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clo007
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:31:23
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Exactly what I plan to do guys. Go from F @ H to crunching for team eVGA. I only got into this b/c of you all, so it is like family.
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:38:39
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Yes... a family... a close knit team. One's who share the same goal. Finding ways to make life better for everyone. Not just ourselves.
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 12:59:24
(permalink)
clo007
I have decided I will keep my ankle-biters going till they can go no further. That was the reason for the purchase, so I will do it.
Thank You Even as of today we are being it slammed with Core 15 P7660 27345.6 PPD and Credit of 4431 ETA of 03:20:40 Core 15 P7624 38778.2 PPD and Credit of 14093 ETA of 08:11:56 Core 15 P7627 0 PPD and Credit of 0 ETA of 08:06:42 But I do get 2.717 WUs See my HFM for more Zero Points from PG.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/22 13:10:28
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Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 13:14:49
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7627 is giving points, I'm guessing you haven't updated HFM in a while, so it doesn't know the new project's deadlines or point value. Make sure you have HFM updating from PsummaryC instead of regular Psummary.
 Core i7 3770K @4.3 GHz, 8 GB DDR3 @2133 MHz, 2xGTX 970 SSC @1379 MHz, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Affiliate code: K4BJ4FHUX5
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 13:25:19
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kerryd
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 13:35:30
(permalink)
cokeman54
kerryd
widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
Let me know when a kindergartener can spend $2k + on top of $200+ a month to fold.What it comes down to is if we want to say blank you Stanford its up to us. You are in the wrong Widss if your not I will sell you 2 4p's for what I got in them 1k and you can give the power comp. min. of $60 a month each to run SMP on them. I can run both my i7 2600k's +my 12 core and 6 gpu's for the cost of 1 of the 4p's.
Last time [link=mailto:f@h]f@h[/link] did this I started crunching , had 1 comp.crunching from that time forword most the time.
I built most my gear on MIN WAGE now you saying I am a crying 4 year old for ****ing about throwing $1k in the garbage.Well I am glad your rich I sure am not so ya I will take what gear I have where I want to.I for 1 have upgraded my last gpu or computer for stanford.That is $3 k this year .
I am one of the few ones on this team that have no reason to fold or crunch for that matter.I fold and crunch because I like reading what most post here and it was away to become a part of that .
At this point think I will just turn every thing off.
KERRYD, we could REALLY USE YOUR HELP in the Christmas Challenge as Tex had to bow out due to Christmas guests and the heat of the crunch. Ninth place and climbing but short on time. Please do not let one person's opinion put an end to all the great work that you have done. Need your help buddy, don't stop now, it Christmas.
I moved every thing over to crunching last week.But after the Christmas Challenge I will be turning the 4p's off most likely tell March Madnessssss if it happens , even if they will only run reg smp.I have at least 1 comp. crunching away most of the time 24/7. But I am done buying any thing more to fold on.Was going to upgrade my other 4 gpu's but if I am not going to fold on them no reason to.They still play any games out there on ultra high settings.Heck I got 2 gtx 580's just setting here theres no reason now to change out the gtx 470's. Me thinks its time to do other stuff like restoring my 1961 Ranchero that gets put on back burner every time I needed to upgrade computer gear.I got 2 engines that would of been done but for folding think its time to order car parts not computer part. I will still fold most likely just on 2 gpus but not for the time being Stanford pissed me off this time way more then last time.<< Could be because last time I did not just spend close to $2.5 k on folding .The big + last time it got me crunching that showed me folding was not the only game out there. I will get over this change like I figure most of us will , but I am sure a lot of us will not go at folding like we did..Some of the best ppl in the world fold/crunch my hats off to all of you. Kerry
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 14:00:07
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 Everything Kerry is worth it. Thanks... I understand your feelings and when you get a chance fire up the suckers for the good time!
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cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 14:09:22
(permalink)
kerryd
cokeman54
kerryd
widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
Let me know when a kindergartener can spend $2k + on top of $200+ a month to fold.What it comes down to is if we want to say blank you Stanford its up to us. You are in the wrong Widss if your not I will sell you 2 4p's for what I got in them 1k and you can give the power comp. min. of $60 a month each to run SMP on them. I can run both my i7 2600k's +my 12 core and 6 gpu's for the cost of 1 of the 4p's.
Last time [link=mailto:f@h]f@h[/link] did this I started crunching , had 1 comp.crunching from that time forword most the time.
I built most my gear on MIN WAGE now you saying I am a crying 4 year old for ****ing about throwing $1k in the garbage.Well I am glad your rich I sure am not so ya I will take what gear I have where I want to.I for 1 have upgraded my last gpu or computer for stanford.That is $3 k this year .
I am one of the few ones on this team that have no reason to fold or crunch for that matter.I fold and crunch because I like reading what most post here and it was away to become a part of that .
At this point think I will just turn every thing off.
KERRYD, we could REALLY USE YOUR HELP in the Christmas Challenge as Tex had to bow out due to Christmas guests and the heat of the crunch. Ninth place and climbing but short on time. Please do not let one person's opinion put an end to all the great work that you have done. Need your help buddy, don't stop now, it Christmas.
I moved every thing over to crunching last week.But after the Christmas Challenge I will be turning the 4p's off most likely tell March Madnessssss if it happens , even if they will only run reg smp.I have at least 1 comp. crunching away most of the time 24/7.
But I am done buying any thing more to fold on.Was going to upgrade my other 4 gpu's but if I am not going to fold on them no reason to.They still play any games out there on ultra high settings.Heck I got 2 gtx 580's just setting here theres no reason now to change out the gtx 470's.
Me thinks its time to do other stuff like restoring my 1961 Ranchero that gets put on back burner every time I needed to upgrade computer gear.I got 2 engines that would of been done but for folding think its time to order car parts not computer part.
I will still fold most likely just on 2 gpus but not for the time being Stanford pissed me off this time way more then last time.<< Could be because last time I did not just spend close to $2.5 k on folding .The big + last time it got me crunching that showed me folding was not the only game out there.
I will get over this change like I figure most of us will , but I am sure a lot of us will not go at folding like we did..Some of the best ppl in the world fold/crunch my hats off to all of you.
Kerry
I plan on staying where I am at (crunching) as I really like the benefits (no point loss to suspend) and the option to select the disease. Will only fold for the bucks (until EVGA updates the promo[[HINT HINT]] ). You are correct as to the people here in the forum, a great group for the most part. Not just the folding/crunching group but the forum in general. The only other forum that comes close to this one is H so I recently joined there also. Been here for eleven years and looking forward to many more. Thanks for the crunch for Christmas Kerry.
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 15:49:58
(permalink)
bill1024
Xavier interesting post, but there are no 200 core servers, even if you can build a 120 core server, I don't think so.
The xxxx-v2 chips are 2 processor only. There are no 4P Xeon v2 servers,
I haven't seen any where v3 will be any more than two socket either..
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-2695%20v2.html
The price of Intel chips are very high. Even the older chips e5-2670 are 15-1900$ refurbished.
The cheaper ones we can't even talk about here, and should not even be fore sale anywhere.
When the new chips come out they will be several thousand dollars each.
As it is the bigadv server pool is not all that big. It is a handful out of the quarter million folders.
If the v3 could do a 4P I bet you will be looking at 15-25,000$ to build.
Figure the used chips will take over a year to hit e-bay. Who at this point is going to invest that much money?
I bet you could count the number on one hand.
I agree with AB and others, abpot constantly upgrading. I put off the supercharger on my Mustang this year. This spring I will post pics of it installed.
Some other donations will be the Wounded Warier Project and ST. Paul's soup kitchen.
To all those who want to keep folding, I commend that too. I wish you the best.
Just respect our choice on how and where to donate our time and money.
Not Really a True Statement , NASA gets SGI 2048-core Itanium 2 supercomputerMy work place has two of the SGI 1024 Core Supercomputers
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bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 16:36:38
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bill1024
Bill I believe those are clusters. I doubt you can get all those cores working on one bigadv WU.
IBM has had 64 core servers when I worked there 10 years ago.
FAH can't work on clusters.. There are no 4P E5-2670 v2 servers.
All the CPUs have to be on one board
Edit: Not worked at IBM,, last time was in 1998, 15 years ago.
They had 8 processors on one boars and there were 8 boards in each box.
The raised floor was cooled with 1500 ton Trane chillers.
Then you cannot Fold on the 1024 dual-core Itanium 2 processors based on the Montecito variant of Intel's Itanium 2 processor. Not that I have that kind of Money.
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Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 17:21:05
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Bill, the 4P Xeon v2's are coming out early 2014. Go to en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessorsand look for "4650 v2". There's a bunch more in that section of the page. There's even several 8P processors coming, numbered 88xx v2.
Core i7 3770K @4.3 GHz, 8 GB DDR3 @2133 MHz, 2xGTX 970 SSC @1379 MHz, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Affiliate code: K4BJ4FHUX5
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david12857
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 17:27:03
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I started WCG last time they wanted everyone to start folding normal SMP or upgrade. Very glad I did. WCG was/is such a breath of fresh air. I still fold too but not as much. I'm glad I have options and can still contribute to team EVGA when I need a break from folding.
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 17:30:21
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Then the Intel's Itanium cannot Fold, I cannot see spending over $3600 for one CPU for 8 Cores and need 4 of them for over $14,400.00 and that is not including the $2000.00 or $3000.00 for the motherboard and Memory. 8 Core x 4 is only 32 Cores and PG will drop them as well in 2015 I guess we could go with Intel® Xeon Phi™ Coprocessor 7120X 61 cores for $4100.00
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/22 17:45:08
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Afterburner
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 18:11:06
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Look at it this way.
Some can afford to race $200K cars with a cingular purpose. Some can afford WRX's with $10K in mods allowing for different types of race weekends.
F@H became the $200K racer and Crunching remains the WRX...
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/22 18:23:14
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