I agree with let's be at least good and supportive to each other.  This is a great team.  Yes, we can get passionate about the things we feel are important, but that is part of why I love this team.  We are not boring, we are inventive, willing to take new challenges, to experiment, giving...I could go on! 
 
Take a deep breath, remember why we are here together and let's be the great team that we are in Folding and Crunching! 

Good for you Bc!  I think everyone should try Crunching at least once (even if done with one machine to see what it's about).   We are a diverse team and can multi-DC-task at will! 
 
Warning:  "Folding and Crunching is known to be addictive...only try this in the safety of your own home, boat, car, bathroom, tree-house, or well any place that you can find"!

Horvat I do see and understand it fully and Crunching alone on my rigs take another 130-150 watts almost 900 watts per rig now.
My Circuit Breakers are no longer warm but almost hot.
But at FAH is also pushing the limit as well like for 8 hours of work for less than 5000 PDD and a credit of 4400 is asking a lot as well.

Name Client Type TPF PPD ETA Core Core ID Project (Run, Clone, Gen) Credit
GTX690        Slot 03  00:08:41  4778.8 (1.366 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1119, C0, G181) 4431
GTX680Class Slot 02 00:02:07 30144.8 (6.803 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1153, C0, G193) 4431

See http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2081641 for more on my HFM above on page 7
I have spent a lot of money for Folding and do not want to stop but at 750-800 Watts for so low of PPD and even low Credit what is FAH thinking.
I had 4 full time Folding Rigs now down to only two and Both on CPU or BigAvg and changed over my two GPU Rigs 9 GPU's in all from Folding to Crunching.
Now I am really not sure which way to really go.

you can see how this has effected our team alone with a 9mil ppd drop in the last few days. I myself am torn and on the fence. I will say for me its about cost/reward, even if the points are really just arbitrary and are just a feel good reward having that ratio change makes me feel good less. I'm thinking after the first of the year I may split my efforts some.

wrinvert
you can see how this has effected our team alone with a 9mil ppd drop in the last few days. I myself am torn and on the fence. I will say for me its about cost/reward, even if the points are really just arbitrary and are just a feel good reward having that ratio change makes me feel good less. I'm thinking after the first of the year I may split my efforts some.

"I will say for me its about cost/reward, even if the points are really just arbitrary and are just a feel good reward having that ratio change makes me feel good less" Yes this is all I am asking for as well.
 
I will add a chart at http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2081351 to show our Drop.

bcavnaugh
Horvat I do see and understand it fully and Crunching alone on my rigs take another 130-150 watts almost 900 watts per rig now.
My Circuit Breakers are no longer warm but almost hot.
But at FAH is also pushing the limit as well like for 8 hours of work for less than 5000 PDD and a credit of 4400 is asking a lot as well.

Name Client Type TPF PPD ETA Core Core ID Project (Run, Clone, Gen) Credit
GTX690        Slot 03  00:08:41  4778.8 (1.366 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1119, C0, G181) 4431
GTX680Class Slot 02 00:02:07 30144.8 (6.803 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1153, C0, G193) 4431

See http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2081641 for more on my HFM above on page 7
I have spent a lot of money for Folding and do not want to stop but at 750-800 Watts for so low of PPD and even low Credit what is FAH thinking.
I had 4 full time Folding Rigs now down to only two and Both on CPU or BigAvg and changed over my two GPU Rigs 9 GPU's in all from Folding to Crunching.
Now I am really not sure which way to really go.

If it were me, I would keep the gpu's at FAH and switch the cpu's to Crunching. I think you would get a lot better balance that way.

nobody is trying to cannibalize anyone...  Folks are just saying if someone is discouraged by FAH don't abandon DC projects, keep putting the hardware to use...  We are are still staying with one EVGA team or another.

bill1024
Maybe have not noticed EVGA has a crunching team too.
You made your point!
 
People who call other people names very often have nothing intelligent to say.
How long have you been on the PG payroll?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and even if you do not agree with it please respect the person. We are all on the same team EVGA, be it folding or crunching. They both do medical research and both are great causes. Go where your heart tells you or stay either way science wins. I am one of the longest members in the forum's only because of the great people here. Please show a little more respect even if you can not agree with someone, don't try to change their mind, this is not the place for that. With that said Merry Christmas all Fold or Crunch away.

Horvat

bcavnaugh
Horvat I do see and understand it fully and Crunching alone on my rigs take another 130-150 watts almost 900 watts per rig now.
My Circuit Breakers are no longer warm but almost hot.
But at FAH is also pushing the limit as well like for 8 hours of work for less than 5000 PDD and a credit of 4400 is asking a lot as well.

Name Client Type TPF PPD ETA Core Core ID Project (Run, Clone, Gen) Credit
GTX690        Slot 03  00:08:41  4778.8 (1.366 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1119, C0, G181) 4431
GTX680Class Slot 02 00:02:07 30144.8 (6.803 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1153, C0, G193) 4431

See http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2081641 for more on my HFM above on page 7
I have spent a lot of money for Folding and do not want to stop but at 750-800 Watts for so low of PPD and even low Credit what is FAH thinking.
I had 4 full time Folding Rigs now down to only two and Both on CPU or BigAvg and changed over my two GPU Rigs 9 GPU's in all from Folding to Crunching.
Now I am really not sure which way to really go.

If it were me, I would keep the gpu's at FAH and switch the cpu's to Crunching. I think you would get a lot better balance that way.

Thanks, I am looking at that as well but for now I am going to keep Folding BigAdv.

I think to answer any concern about people choosing or inviting others to try Crunching, we'd have to answer one fundamental question.  What harm will be done if a Folder or a Cruncher either switches their total DC effort or decided to go hybrid?  You see, I can't find any tangible harm there, but I do see a lot of positive things that can happen.  Those positive things are that somewhere (on this team or elsewhere) somebody is still doing DC work to cure diseases.  There is no loss when Folders or Crunchers choose a different path, unless they choose not to work on diseases at all.  On that subject, would we rather see a person remain working on diseases (somewhere) or quit all together if they have an issue with DC work?  I think we all would rather see them find a way to stay.
 
This negativity about people stealing from the Folding team boils down to one main issue IMO.  It is "points" and the very recent decline of same.  Are we going to say that we "own people" for those points and that they can't change direction without making people mad?  I would hope not.  We are not in a race with HardOCP today.  While we all love competition, if we are all about points to the level that we can get mad at a team member for not continuing their contribution, then we are already a lost team.  I don't believe that about this team either.
 
Lastly, when the Folding team needs help from the Crunching team for a contest, will the word be "thanks, but no thanks"?  Nope, we all know that we appreciate each others help and that is easiest to see if a person views "Folding at EVGA" and "Cruching at EVGA" as one fluid team.
 
PS:  I think we also need to realize and not over-react to members that felt the need to blow off a little steam toward PG.  If we can't talk openly amongst ourselves about how PG has been managing donors, then we should all go over to the FF.  Nobody here said anything that should be taken as so bad that it has caused permanent harm to Folding.  What can cause that harm is if we can't be understanding of each other, and that we may have a little different perspective of changes that are implemented.
 

I've been watching the folding forum and the discussion there.  It is in many ways a repeat of the last 3 years and I'm afraid if this is any indication of how it is 'done' I feel very little hope for FAH.
 
Well Macaholic noted that this discussion has been going on for many years.

Vijay wrote:

I've been thinking about what we can do to help improve that in a sustainable way. We've had many attempts but keeping the communication going is probably only possible with us having someone who's primary job is donor relations and communications -- the science and development team are as it is overloaded with the tasks of keeping FAH running. So, I have been looking into hiring (into a part time role) someone who's sole job is donor relations and communications.

Just for nothing, I looked at what i wrote on the subject in 2010 and 2011

In my opinion, this part of the project is too important to be left as an afterthought, or a dreaded obligation.
While not central to the research science, it is central to maintaining the donors.

Hence it would be a good investment to have a full time person, a project manager. Someone who is not tasked with maintaining servers, or doing research papers. A person who would be both a points czar, and a liaison between the researchers and the folding donors.

With close to a half million donors, it certainly seem that a professional full time person would be justified.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19062&p=190802&hilit=liaison#p190802
 
Apparently now we have at FAH a quarter million donors by their home page count.  It's a problem that needs a solution and yet I fear a solution will not be forthcoming now if there hasn't been on in place for the last 3 years.
 
The problem is FAH let the Kraken out of it's cave with the inflated point system that became attached to bigadv.  It's impossible now I think to put the Kraken back into the cave unless they start the point system from scratch. 

I'll just say this from my own perspective.  Helping science is great, that's why F@H took off and still continues to.  Buuuut, nobody is buying high-end $500 GPU's or 2p/4p systems to donate 24/7 to just "helping science".  The only reason we've got this far is because of competition.  Competition spurs many wonderful things as this F@H project has seen with its now PETAFLOPS of computing power, all at the expense of peoples donated time, money, and resources.  Everyone is sacrificing here, not just Pande or the F@H team, although being a scientist is basically elevating someone in society to god-like status.  Lets get off the pedestal and speak on equal levels.
 
Dicking around with points is rightfully infuriating.  It has happened before and will continue to happen.  The last round was with Fermi vs Kepler and that still continues.  The investment was smaller and the nature of GPU's happen to be people upgrade them more often so it kind of died down.  The controversy of them intentionally lowering Fermi PPD just so that it wouldn't make Keplers "new" architecture look bad and unappealing still exists, despite it being simply a matter of time to catch up and optimize for the architecture.
 
IMO nobody is right and nobody is wrong.  Both sides have a valid arguments, but there comes a time where one side seems to win them more often than not.  In this case it's because the game is rigged.  One side controls the outcome regardless.  More and more I'm standing with the dedicated GPU folders and BigAdv guys who don't do this because they're bored, but do it for competitive purposes and helping science is kind of a side bonus.   I ask you this.  With QRB do you REALLY think they're going to allow Maxwell on up to start hitting 500K PPD until 4 years later we approach 1 million?  You may find in 4 years we're back to 100K for a $500-600 GPU despite the massive performance gains from now until then. 

widsss

Horvat
I read VJ's post and I have to say... I think he's finally starting to get it. Albeit too late. I can understand the 24 core requirement coming, especially now with the E5 2600 V2 12 core cpus being released. But to follow it 2 months later with a 32 core requirement is just ludicrous.
 
widsss: seriously, you come in here and post we are just whining and crying like babies and then get sanctimonious when someone calls you on it. Get a grip. If you're completely ok with PG's decision, great, no one is going to criticize or fault you. So don't come in here and criticize us because our view point is the opposite of yours. For then you are just a mouth piece for PG, miming there mentality. Like it or lump it. Ok, some like you like it and some like others here will lump it and take their hardware somewhere else.
 
Now, I would ask that no one engages him anymore at this point. It is useless and will only enflame more animosity within our team.

I will criticize when I see people encouraging teammates to abandon f@h and when I see people trying cannibalize members of the folding team. That shouldn't be allowed on this forum. Saying you're going to take your toys and go home because of a drop in points is very childish. I didn't say I liked it, I said it's the exact same thing that has happened in the past and will happen again in the future. Our equipment has a limited lifespan at the top of the points food chain. This Chicken Little mentality is what's causing animosity within the team, not a few posts from someone with a different point of view.
 
"So don't come in here and criticize us because our view point is the opposite of yours."  --- now that's some serious irony considering your last comment.

Blah blah blah. You're one of those people that always has to right and I will leave it at that.

Umm... Ummm... yeah.. I'd leave an LMA there but I'm sure I'd ROTFL too much.  That would be us.
 
Nice catch Tex!

TheWolf
I got to quite reading here as always people are falling into taking a screwing and and liking it and doing nothing about it.
So much of that happens in today's world. Good luck with your next investment.
 

Quite the opposite actually.