TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 09:02:44
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Its the way of the fold they wait until you drop a boat load of money on hardware then change the game to where it is no longer any good for folding. The main reason as I see it is they are a bunch of lazy people needing to get back on vacation. With the ankle biter hardware becoming affordable for many it was working them hard to keep the servers loaded with work, this change is just so they can get back to there lazy vacation ways. They care nothing about the donors, just there free time.
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/12/20 09:05:37
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 10:29:16
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I feel the exact same way. It was time for a change... I'm now glad PG made it so easy for me. They should have done this sooner!!! :)
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 10:37:08
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Should we then not work with EVGA to change EVGA Folding Bucks and move over to EVGA Crunching Bucks? Not that I really use or need them it is more of support from EVGA to also move over to Crunching now that I understand that from the start Folding was on a down hill slide. I will keep Folding until New Years Day and then convert all my Folding Rigs over to Crunching. If this is the will of the EVGA Folding Team folding @ evga. Also I can see Crunching find a cure for MS and in the END this is was I would like to see.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/20 10:38:53
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widsss
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 10:52:18
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I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 11:05:07
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bcavnaugh
Should we then not work with EVGA to change EVGA Folding Bucks and move over to EVGA Crunching Bucks?
Not that I really use or need them it is more of support from EVGA to also move over to Crunching now that I understand that from the start Folding was on a down hill slide. I will keep Folding until New Years Day and then convert all my Folding Rigs over to Crunching.
If this is the will of the EVGA Folding Team folding @ evga. Also I can see Crunching find a cure for MS and in the END this is was I would like to see.
I think it was viper that said that EVGA stated they might consider supporting the Crunching team w bucks if they saw increased interest in that direction. Well the interest in crunching has definitely increased, but I'm not sure if it enough to warrant their attention just yet... After all, the evga folding team is still pushing 43,000,000 ppd. It would be nice if EVGA decided to give bucks for both causes, but I'm sure there is a limit they are willing to budget for that marketing technique. Maybe we could get them to support & promote both teams w/ bucks, but only allow the individual to apply for a total of 10/month from either. It doesn't matter to me either way. The bucks are nice, but its going to take alot more than 10 bucks to keep volunteering my hardware, cash, time & power for a bunch of ungrateful & pompass you-know-what's. This doesn't effect my relationship w/ EVGA one iota. I will still purchase EVGA stuff whenever the time arises. I have thought about becoming a bucks folder, but I don't even think I'm going to do that. I'm more of a "Set It & Forget It" style of DC'er. We'll see what I do, but as far as I am concerned, I now crunch for Team EVGA for WCG and folding for PG has concluded. I'm liking the new change, I like BOINC, and I like the attitude of the [link=mailto:Crunching@EVGA]Crunching@EVGA[/link] Team. Soooo many more options. No reason to feel unappreciated EVER in a DC endevour. The thing I will miss the most about folding is the Top 5 conquests & Threats Chart on EOC. I'll get over it!
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 11:07:55
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widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
To each their own Willis. Unforunately, I can't remember what it was like back in Kindergarten, but I'll take your word for it.
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 11:11:52
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bill1024
This is a sad day for me. The first time in seven years that I did not fold for FAH. (except when I had no power)
PG still has time to work with us. It is their call. I will still fold more than likely; but pouring $$$$$ into rigs, then they become obsolete. well............
Why put all your eggs in one basket? Spread it out over several projects.
I would not put all my money in just one stock. A mutual fund or a group of stocks from different sectors as a better way to go.
PG really just wants our spare computer cycles we are not using. And if you buy hardware just for FAH it is buyer beware.
OK when I have some to spare....................
Bill1024 you are putting up some great numbers on the crunching side. So all is not lost and it is still medical research.
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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 11:50:27
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widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
For someone that hasn't poured a ton of money in to bigadv hardware it wouldn't bother them. What are you loosing out on with this move? Maybe that's why you can't see or feel what others are.
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texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:00:39
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Vijay just responded to Folders about this an other issues in this post at the FF: https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=25411&start=75#p253960 It was solid response that validates a lot of what people have been saying here (so, we are not just "whining"). I was encouraged by what Vijay had to say because he stepped up and spoke to people. Even though our concerns about Bigadv will likely not be solved to our satisfaction (nature of the beast), Vijay does recognize why people would be upset with these changes. He at least recognizes there are issues with these decisions and that donor communications is a big thing that needs to be addressed.
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widsss
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:13:08
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TheWolf
For someone that hasn't poured a ton of money in to bigadv hardware it wouldn't bother them.
What are you loosing out on with this move? Maybe that's why you can't see or feel what others are.
I thought the appeal of ankle biters was their low start-up cost? Not to mention the name itself implies that the rigs are barely nipping at the base of bigadv system requirements. This latest round of obsoletion is no different than what has happened in the past, even though your hardware can still fold for years to come. What I'm currently using, and spent a lot of money on, will one day be obsolete as well. If you spent a ton of money on "ankle biters", then you should have been aware that your bigadv points might one day disappear.
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texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:16:00
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widsss
I'm sticking with f@h
All of the whining and crying on this thread reminds me of kindergarten.
We have all Folded together for years as a team, competed together, prayed for each other, shared and donated equipment together. I would think that if you were adversely affected in your own Folding investment, that you would hope fellow members would understand and not refer to you as a "whiner and cryer". Sometimes you have to "walk a mile in another man's shoes" to understand their perspective... 
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:47:11
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While called anklebiters even the slowest one can get a bigadv done well within the time constraints. I know I've owned a few of them.
The decision to devalue 24 core 'anklebiters' is not (I believe) based on anything other than an arbitrary decision by FAH to increase SMP work by 'hopefully' forcing the 24 core machines into folding strictly SMP... not a good idea and as you can see it is backfiring on them.
That's the anger you see. In a nutshell... the boards can still do the work. It's just now they won't assign the work come March so you've been marginalized.
Not bright.
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:52:54
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I would also like to add:
For me, when I built a 24 core system, I figured it would last a while as 16 core systems were the minimum requirement. I was thinking even when they made the next chop it would be the 16 core, then maybe another year or so til the 24 core chop... But instead, they chop the 16 core, and 2 months later the 24. So my assumption of getting about 2 years was short by about 16-18 months. Pretty ridiculous considering, as Viper stated, they still get the work done with ease.
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 12:57:48
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This post by Nathan_P (to Vijay's Response) pretty much sums it up:
BA was not drawn up with the average F@H user in mind. The hardware to run BA properly has always been a 2p machine or greater which 99.9% of users do not have at home. PG expressed a desire for this style of hardware by releasing these project and the serious folders who were able to afford to went and invested a lot of cash in the systems that currently run BA units. To have these users suddenly have their hardware obsoleted is unfair to say the least. Every machine out there running BA units returns its unit within 2.4 days or less unless there is a problem somewhere - this is not like the old days of spoofed i5's, X6's and i7's that barely made the grade and more often than not didn't. These days its (expensive) server grade hardware that will run for years on BA units with no hassle - Hell I bet some of the top end machines return BA units faster than a lot of SMP units get returned
These users are the same ones that are usually the most active and most helpful towards the rest of the F@H community. It is going to be a serious loss to the project as a whole when/if these users start shutting down.
Analogy, I invest X to get Y return - if Y is suddenly 40%/50%/60% less what would you do - especially when it costs real money??
BA only gets done because we - THE DONORS - are willing to spend the cash required to buy the machines needed to do the job - I do not need 5 2p machines for day to day use
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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nathan_P
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 13:35:56
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^^^  Been caught once, not being caught again, x5670 rig upgrade plans on hold........
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cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 13:54:53
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nathan_P
^^^
Been caught once, not being caught again, x5670 rig upgrade plans on hold........
nathan_P
^^^
Been caught once, not being caught again, x5670 rig upgrade plans on hold........
I am sure you are not alone in that regard.
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&p=253970#p253970
Tear and Texinga both raised some great points and very respectful in what was said. Either or both would be a great "Donor Relations Manager"
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texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 13:56:12
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Well said Nathan and I'm glad to see Vijay responding so donors can "speak to the man" about this subject. It is pretty apparent that donors do have Vijays attention about this stuff.
They really must do a lot more communication than they have been when Bigadv rigs cost multi-thousands of dollars to meet requirements. It was different (as you said) when a Bigadv rig was less than a $1,000 and even lesser cost rigs were spoofing Bigadv. Now we are absolutely talking about Server-class machines. It is (and will be) serious money, which requires much better notice of obsoletion and Bigadv future requirements. Without that kind of information being pushed to donors by PG, people would be ill-advised to even enter Bigadv work.
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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 14:30:25
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widsss
TheWolf
For someone that hasn't poured a ton of money in to bigadv hardware it wouldn't bother them.
What are you loosing out on with this move? Maybe that's why you can't see or feel what others are.
I thought the appeal of ankle biters was their low start-up cost? Not to mention the name itself implies that the rigs are barely nipping at the base of bigadv system requirements.
This latest round of obsoletion is no different than what has happened in the past, even though your hardware can still fold for years to come. What I'm currently using, and spent a lot of money on, will one day be obsolete as well. If you spent a ton of money on "ankle biters", then you should have been aware that your bigadv points might one day disappear.
I no longer own a ankle biter 'only had 1", but it had no problems finishing any bigadv work that is out to date. I also have 3 SR2's that have no problems meeting the bigadv deadlines that will soon be of no use, only 1.5 days to complete the hardest 8101 with those My big investment is in a 700+$ motherboard with 32 cores that will be the next target to be drop.
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widsss
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 14:33:52
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"Bigadv has always been intended as an experimental, ultra-extreme requirement" -- Vijay
I don't think $500 systems off ebay fall into that category. Purchasing equipment near the now two-year-old threshold is/was a risky adventure.
Intel i7 3770K @ 4.5 Ghz. / Asus P67 Pro / 2 x EVGA GTX 980 SC / 16gb Corsair Vengeance RAM / 2 x Crucial 64 gb. SSD / 1 Tb. Seagate / Corsair AX 850 / Corsair H100
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 14:52:38
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widsss
"Bigadv has always been intended as an experimental, ultra-extreme requirement" -- Vijay
I don't think $500 systems off ebay fall into that category. Purchasing equipment near the now two-year-old threshold is/was a risky adventure.
You clearly don't understand what's going on... Sheesh... Even by Vijay's own quote... "Ultra-Extreme Requirement" That confirms the point nathan was making... Enjoy your folding.. Keep fighting the good fight, and let us steam in our saunas.
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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widsss
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 15:23:28
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bill1024
My intel xeon chips and motherboard were new and expensive and now obsolete. And well over a thousand dollars to put together.That was the first time after a few months, then I just bought 2 5660 last week to get that back doing bigadv.Well guess what, they will be obsolete too, know what your 780s will be too in time.I also have a pile of video card going back 7 years.But why am I talking to you about it. I see what side you are on.
Not willing to talk to someone with a different view? Well, I'm sorry to invade this echo chamber. I'm on the side of helping f@h with their project, I'm surprised you're admitting to being on a different side. BTW, your rigs will still fold after the changes. I know my equipment will be surpassed in time. With the gtx880 and hopefully GPU-bigadv around the corner, my 780s might not make the cut. Even with my less than three years experience I know those facts. I'm not sure why other folders don't know their rigs can have a limited folding life. I will adapt to the ever-changing requirements, it's one of the things I enjoy most about this hobby.
Intel i7 3770K @ 4.5 Ghz. / Asus P67 Pro / 2 x EVGA GTX 980 SC / 16gb Corsair Vengeance RAM / 2 x Crucial 64 gb. SSD / 1 Tb. Seagate / Corsair AX 850 / Corsair H100
Intel i7 3930k @ 4.3 Ghz / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 2 x EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC / 32 gb Gskill Ripjaws RAM / 256 gb Vertex 4 SSD / Corsair AX1200i / Corsair H110i GT
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zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 15:31:18
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widsss
bill1024
My intel xeon chips and motherboard were new and expensive and now obsolete. And well over a thousand dollars to put together.That was the first time after a few months, then I just bought 2 5660 last week to get that back doing bigadv.Well guess what, they will be obsolete too, know what your 780s will be too in time.I also have a pile of video card going back 7 years.But why am I talking to you about it. I see what side you are on.
Not willing to talk to someone with a different view? Well, I'm sorry to invade this echo chamber. I'm on the side of helping f@h with their project, I'm surprised you're admitting to being on a different side. BTW, your rigs will still fold after the changes.
I know my equipment will be surpassed in time. With the gtx880 and hopefully GPU-bigadv around the corner, my 780s might not make the cut. Even with my less than three years experience I know those facts. I'm not sure why other folders don't know their rigs can have a limited folding life. I will adapt to the ever-changing requirements, it's one of the things I enjoy most about this hobby.
Greeeaaattt!!! You're AWESOME!!!!!! Well you are exactly what PG is looking for.
post edited by zildjian75 - 2013/12/20 15:32:40
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." Thomas Jefferson RIG#1 (Home) - i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz w/ CM V8 GTS - EVGA Z97 Classified - Win10 64bit - Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133mhz - 2 x EVGA GTX 980SC in SLI - Corsair AX850 - 250GB Samsung Evo (main) - 500GB Samsung Evo (games) - 1TB WD Black (misc) - Aerocool Strike-X (Cheesy... But effective!)
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:15:47
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Teammates, I'm going to ask everyone to step back a bit and relax, take a deep breath and pause. We all have our reasons for folding/crunching etc. I respect that and I respect the choices all of us make. I'm proud of the folding team as well as I am proud of the crunching team. We do a lot to find a better path for humanity. It's something we can all be proud of. Regardless of how your feelings right now at this moment in time are, we all know and understand one thing -We do this not for us but for humanity. Granted there are arguments about obsolete equipment... I'll be a product of that next year I suspect but while the bitter reality has hit us all does it really matter? We shift our obsolete gear to as much a noble cause as folding when we decide to crunch. In the end it's the only thing that really matters - we try to make a difference in the world. We choose different paths but the end story is always one of hope, love and respect for all those we serve and all those who dedicate their time, effort and money to this cause. Regardless of the team you fold or crunch for we are all still one team. Team Humanity
post edited by Viper97 - 2013/12/20 16:18:46
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ArtyD42
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:30:20
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Viper97
Teammates,
I'm going to ask everyone to step back a bit and relax, take a deep breath and pause.
We all have our reasons for folding/crunching etc. I respect that and I respect the choices all of us make. I'm proud of the folding team as well as I am proud of the crunching team. We do a lot to find a better path for humanity. It's something we can all be proud of.
Regardless of how your feelings right now at this moment in time are, we all know and understand one thing -We do this not for us but for humanity.
I believe I have a response to this. The ankle biter systems were built to help humanity. They're being discarded by the system operators with this change. I'm all for helping humanity but what benefit does it provide to humanity to discard systems just because they're not high end servers? That's a problem to me.
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:33:25
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Then Arty... turn them to Crunching... join the dark side. The dark sheep of the EVGA DC Strike Team... the end goal is the same. Turn your anger at FAH into something beautiful. Another way to find a light in the darkness.
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ArtyD42
Superclocked Member
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:53:15
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Viper97
Then Arty... turn them to Crunching... join the dark side. The dark sheep of the EVGA DC Strike Team... the end goal is the same. Turn your anger at FAH into something beautiful. Another way to find a light in the darkness.
*points at signature*
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bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:53:41
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To Add Insult to Injury with "Major bigadv change" we are back to Core 15 OPENMMGPU P7624, P7625, P7627, and P7660 PPD 8-9 hours of work and less then 45,000 PPD or less then 14,000 Credits. My PPD are now down below 900,000 for all my Rigs put together. I wonder if PG is following this thread and now tying to punish our Team? Crunching Crunch Crunched. What to do? I have four Core 17 running and two Core A5 8101 running now, if one of the four Core 17 drop to a Core 15 I will move all my Rig over to Crunching. How best to set my Rig, I will need some help on this. I have: One 4P 64 Core, One 2P 32 Core, One 6 GPU or 4 GTX 690, and One 3 GPU GTX 680 Classified and 12 Core. Any one have a best way or thoughts? Guess I will never hit that 200 Million on FAH. HFM Progress Name TPF PPD Core Core ID Project (Run, Clone, Gen) Credit
28% FolditGPU3GTX680Class Slot 00 00:04:39 43642.8 (3.097 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7626 (R223, C0, G140) 14093
10% FolditGPU3GTX680Class Slot 01 00:04:36 44117.2 (3.13 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7625 (R2, C0, G251) 14093
83% FolditGPU3GTX680Class Slot 02 00:02:07 30144.8 (6.803 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1153, C0, G193) 4431
78% FolditGPU3GTX680Class Slot 03 00:07:51 25740.7 (1.834 WUs) GRO_A3 A3 P8576 (R1, C8, G144) 14032.3
16% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 00 00:06:00 33823.2 (2.4 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7624 (R421, C0, G120) 14093
16% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 01 00:05:59 33917.4 (2.407 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7626 (R681, C0, G134) 14093
0% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 02 00:00:00 0 (0 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1123, C0, G135) 4431
0% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 03 00:00:00 0 (0 WUs) OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1119, C0, G181) 4431
0% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 04 00:00:00 0 (0 WUs) Unknown 15 P7627 (R293, C0, G0) 0
50% FolditGPU6GTX690 Slot 05 00:05:08 71216.7 (2.805 WUs) ZETA 17 P8900 (R79, C2, G44) 25387.4
12 Clients 743,666.6 PPD Name Client Type TPF PPD ETA Core Core ID Project (Run, Clone, Gen) Credit
GTX690 Slot 03 Uniprocessor 00:02:41 23778.8 (5.366 WUs) 04:09:33 OPENMMGPU 15 P7660 (R1119, C0, G181) 4431
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/20 17:29:58
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:54:49
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It's okay Arty... I hope that works out. I've watched it's progress and you're doing what you want to. I'll support that!
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ArtyD42
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 16:57:59
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Viper97
It's okay Arty... I hope that works out. I've watched it's progress and you're doing what you want to. I'll support that!
Considering my goal is to raise money for charity it'll work out. As for right now I have my target 100 to donate this year. http://childsplaycharity.org/ is my target.
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)
2013/12/20 17:02:31
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Go fer it! Seriously it is a great thing you do. I'll add mining coins for charity to the folding/crunching thing.
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