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Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)

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bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/18 20:51:54 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
the solution is a fix to the point system - for once sit down and fix it all
make SMP worthwhile to fold - PPD/Watt  
if the drop isn't to much people won't complain too much 
the idea is to make people think "so Im relegated to SMP - Im making slightly less - but hey it's not bad I can live with it"
 
in fact you may get people back into using older CPU's again and bring hardware back
 
it might mean bringing GPU PPD up and cause people to consider going back to GPU farms 
but hey isn't GPU more efficient - faster on all Work than a CPU
you may see a few people drop 4P's because a GPU does more - but I suspect you may see people have both systems
we had a few years where GPU were dropped because CPU had more PPD/WATT
if you go equal work= equal pay then GPU's farms would be the thing - because why use CPU when GPU does it faster
that would leave 4p for specialized work that can't be done on normal SMP or GPU
or at least until they get that figured out to do bigger stuff on GPU


The Cost for a GPU Farm is 3 to 4 times the cost of a CPU Rig.
They Run 800+ Watts are HOT even under water, for a while with 8101 I had to stop Folding because of Power Needs and taking 8 to 10 hours to complete. Even now 700-780 Watts and OK PPD but Core 17's P8900 take 8 Hours to Complete but do not run as HOT as the 8101 did.

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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/18 21:19:22 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Xavier Zepherious
the solution is a fix to the point system - for once sit down and fix it all
make SMP worthwhile to fold - PPD/Watt  
if the drop isn't to much people won't complain too much 
the idea is to make people think "so Im relegated to SMP - Im making slightly less - but hey it's not bad I can live with it"
 
in fact you may get people back into using older CPU's again and bring hardware back
 
it might mean bringing GPU PPD up and cause people to consider going back to GPU farms 
but hey isn't GPU more efficient - faster on all Work than a CPU
you may see a few people drop 4P's because a GPU does more - but I suspect you may see people have both systems
we had a few years where GPU were dropped because CPU had more PPD/WATT
if you go equal work= equal pay then GPU's farms would be the thing - because why use CPU when GPU does it faster
that would leave 4p for specialized work that can't be done on normal SMP or GPU
or at least until they get that figured out to do bigger stuff on GPU


The Cost for a GPU Farm is 3 to 4 times the cost of a CPU Rig.
They Run 800+ Watts are HOT even under water, for a while with 8101 I had to stop Folding because of Power Needs and taking 8 to 10 hours to complete. Even now 700-780 Watts and OK PPD but Core 17's P8900 take 8 Hours to Complete but do not run as HOT as the 8101 did.




any point increase on SMP would have to be reflected in increases in GPU PPD (equal work=equal pay) - this would bring it in line to compete against CPU 4P's
what is it now 250K each for titan or 780 so if you double or triple or quad SMP values you do it on GPU as well
at least double it - I was making 140k under bigadv  with 3930k -then got relegated to SMP for 40K (which is about 1/3 to 1/4 of what I was getting before the last switch)
so expect 2-4M PPD on GPU farm under this scenerio (before MAXELL)
yeah you might deal with more heat and power per rig but PPD/watt would improve
 
this would bring back the folding farms again - something stanford wanted anyway
 
 
as I said before the problem was the point disparity in the first place - fix it - do something equitable to all parties
bigadv numbers should come down(they were too high in the first place) and SMP go up


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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 04:17:22 (permalink)
bill1024
I have 24 cores crunching!!!!!!!! And no hair left on my head!
The 2nd 24c is -oneunit. I installed bionic and it will not communicate with the core.
So I will do a fresh install of linux and try again.
I did get my 4 port kvm working!!!!




Um... I still see two hairs... granted one of them don't look so good but a with little TLC it might survive. 
 
Thanks for putting some power to the Christmas Challenge and to Crunching in general.


 
cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 12:37:42 (permalink)
Talk about timing, my dog pulled my 24 core 4P off the shelf and cracked the MB. Will not power up and now I have no intention on replacing it. Not sure if I will trouble shoot or just trash it. It worked after the crash folding until I shut down the last work unit. Went to start it up to change over to crunching an nada. Need to move those CPU's to the quad core now and change it to crunching.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
clo007
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 13:07:11 (permalink)
zildjian75
When I read those threads......  The lack of respect is waaaay worse than I thought.  Honestly, why is it any of us work on this project. 
 
 


That is my thought too. I have learned a lot from you guys. [H] has provided so much to folding. tear is awesome with the things he has done to make folding more efficient.
7im(Tim) is a complete jackass. At this time, I am know longer supporting folding @ home. When I get home tonight, I am pulling the plugs on my ankle-biters, I don't care where the WU is. These jack-wagons do not deserve our volunteering to help them with their research.
Simply put folding @ home can suck an egg!



cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 14:10:12 (permalink)
clo007
zildjian75
When I read those threads......  The lack of respect is waaaay worse than I thought.  Honestly, why is it any of us work on this project. 
 
 


That is my thought too. I have learned a lot from you guys. [H] has provided so much to folding. tear is awesome with the things he has done to make folding more efficient.
7im(Tim) is a complete jackass. At this time, I am know longer supporting folding @ home. When I get home tonight, I am pulling the plugs on my ankle-biters, I don't care where the WU is. These jack-wagons do not deserve our volunteering to help them with their research.
Simply put folding @ home can suck an egg!


Please do not blame the science for the lack of donor respect. You have done a great deal of work in a short time and have the hardware to do a lot more. Let the unit finish and "come to the dark side" (crunching) I am in the process now and it is totally cool. Like before learning as I go. Hang in there buddy, we still need you.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 15:02:22 (permalink)
Although I know this will amount to absolutely nothing I still have to point out that bill1024 hit on a good point I have been thinking this since the thread started. If Pande Group has a high priority for smp WU's instead of -bigadv, all they had to do was ask and we all would have answered the call till the smp work need was satisfied. Instead, in their typical Nazi fashion they shoved it done our throats and said like it or lump it. Pathetic.




clo007
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 15:10:12 (permalink)
10-4 guys. I will finish out the WUs before pulling the plug.



zildjian75
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 15:26:35 (permalink)
Transfer to WCG............................  COMPLETE!!!  Later PG!

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Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 15:39:38 (permalink)
Horvat, could you stop calling PG Nazis?  Nothing they have done in any way matches up with the Third Reich, including the fact that a) they're not a government, b) you are free to leave and in fact voluntarily had to sign up to deal with them, and, perhaps most importantly, c) they are not killing or oppressing anyone; quite the opposite, in fact, they are trying to help humanity.
 
I am sick and tired of so many people, when confronted with any action of a person or organization that they do not agree with, throwing around Hitler and Nazi comparisons willy-nilly.  It demeans all of the actual victims of Nazi Germany to so blithely make that comparison.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:07:31 (permalink)
Zagen, go easy bro.  We all have been around Horvat long enough to know what he meant (and it had nothing to do with demeaning victims of WW2). 
 
Let's not start going after each other just because PG can't seem to implement positive, motivating ways of handling DC change.  They are not evil and we all know that.  They just have a problem with anticipating, understanding, communicating and positively motivating Folders who get involved at the higher levels of the investment spectrum.  If they were actually any good at it, these problems would not keep repeating themselves.



Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:38:49 (permalink)
Zagen30
Horvat, could you stop calling PG Nazis?  Nothing they have done in any way matches up with the Third Reich, including the fact that a) they're not a government, b) you are free to leave and in fact voluntarily had to sign up to deal with them, and, perhaps most importantly, c) they are not killing or oppressing anyone; quite the opposite, in fact, they are trying to help humanity.
 
I am sick and tired of so many people, when confronted with any action of a person or organization that they do not agree with, throwing around Hitler and Nazi comparisons willy-nilly.  It demeans all of the actual victims of Nazi Germany to so blithely make that comparison.


Well... no. Being that my immediate family was on the receiving end of Nazi behavior in concentration and work camps (so I'm not throwing it around willy-nilly; and by the way my dad(you know one of the concentration camp internees) agrees with me, I have a good knowledge of what they are about, there tactics and behavior. Now, just short of murdering millions of people, Pande Groups modus operandi is very similar if not almost exactly like that of the Nazi's.




Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:43:38 (permalink)
texinga
Zagen, go easy bro.  We all have been around Horvat long enough to know what he meant (and it had nothing to do with demeaning victims of WW2). 
 
Let's not start going after each other just because PG can't seem to implement positive, motivating ways of handling DC change.  They are not evil and we all know that.  They just have a problem with anticipating, understanding, communicating and positively motivating Folders who get involved at the higher levels of the investment spectrum.  If they were actually any good at it, these problems would not keep repeating themselves.


Thanks Tex but I'm not butt hurt. As stated in my previous post I have some knowledge and second hand experience in the matter.




Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:46:57 (permalink)
You know... the people you meet on this board... fascinating.  Either way I'm proud of you all.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:48:31 (permalink)
Thanks guys, if there is one thing I admire about this forum is respect for each other. Even when we do not agree with what is going on lets not stoop to a lower level. PG means well but can not always manage well as to donors. Communication has always been an issue with them and maybe this will be a wake up call(or maybe not). The point is we are better than name calling and finger pointing. There are other DC projects that could use us and be thankful to have us. Come to the dark side( crunching). The force is strong in this one (Boinc) 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 16:50:26 (permalink)
Concerning the change, I think it's wrong. However, I will continue to fold on my servers until they cannot complete -bigadv and then I will switch them back to WCG. I still have a 4P E5 4640 rig and an X58 gpu platform to build (which will be completed in next couple of weeks when I have the time to do it) and they can continue to fold.
post edited by Horvat - 2013/12/19 16:52:39




texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 17:31:32 (permalink)
Okay-fine and I have a lot of respect for everyone on the EVGA team as well.  When things like this happen, there are always some differences in the way people react to it.  I fully expect people to do a variety of things (continue to Fold as usual, shift gears to something else, hybrid, etc).  We are a Folding and Crunching Team first and foremost with people that are comfortable spanning both areas of DC under one flag. 
 
For me, it is perfectly OK to have strong feelings or no feelings about this whole topic.  I'm kinda numb to it actually because I've seen it before and don't expect things to changes as much as I once did.  But, I always see our team as "one team" that just so happens to Fold and Crunch.  I expect that when people read that someone has decided to exit Folding and move to Crunching, it may be troubling to them.  I feel that people sometimes need space (even rest) to maintain their interest in DC.  Crunching can be a therapeutic place to go if you've had it with changes like this one.  But people have a way  of finding their own "center of gravity" with these things too. 
 
We are one EVGA team every day whether we be Folding or Crunching! 



Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 19:41:15 (permalink)
texinga
Okay-fine and I have a lot of respect for everyone on the EVGA team as well.  When things like this happen, there are always some differences in the way people react to it.  I fully expect people to do a variety of things (continue to Fold as usual, shift gears to something else, hybrid, etc).  We are a Folding and Crunching Team first and foremost with people that are comfortable spanning both areas of DC under one flag. 
 
For me, it is perfectly OK to have strong feelings or no feelings about this whole topic.  I'm kinda numb to it actually because I've seen it before and don't expect things to changes as much as I once did.  But, I always see our team as "one team" that just so happens to Fold and Crunch.  I expect that when people read that someone has decided to exit Folding and move to Crunching, it may be troubling to them.  I feel that people sometimes need space (even rest) to maintain their interest in DC.  Crunching can be a therapeutic place to go if you've had it with changes like this one.  But people have a way  of finding their own "center of gravity" with these things too. 
 
We are one EVGA team every day whether we be Folding or Crunching! 


+++1million




cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/19 22:42:13 (permalink)
Up and running 30 clients on WCG and 24 more to go. These finish much faster than expected and like FAH I am doing all medical work (cancer, MS and AIDS) Windows PC much easier than Ubuntu but finally got there. Looks like tons of badges available. Guys this is awesome, interface (project manager), speed, and project graphics. Kinda wish I had done this long ago. Shame the way it happened but am glad to be here. I actually feel useful again.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 04:28:21 (permalink)
WCG makes a nice break from the drama FAH causes with these changes.  Yodap pointed out earlier in the thread that the Crunching team was born from the frustration some of us felt at FAH when the last set of changes took place.  AB (AfterBurner) rallied the troops behind the movement and I believe he was the key factor to the Crunching teams creation (sort of the founding father).
 
WCG is less demanding than Folding as far as system requirements, just as rewarding and more importantly far more fun that Folding is in my opinion. 
 
I'll still split time on my rig between Folding and Crunching but I know my equipment will be obsolete in 2-4 years and I'll just shift it all to WCG and say goodbye to requirements PG and the Folding team require.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 06:43:03 (permalink)
Response from Dr. Kasson (via the FF) who is the one person from PG that could actually engage donors on this issue.  I found the brief response polite, aloof and lacking in content.  If this is the best he can do, the guy that runs the Bigadv projects, it would have been just as well to have remained silent IMO.  Not one question, clarification, nada to the very donors that have been participating in the Bigadv projects.
 

Re: Change in BA requirements

by kasson » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:00 pm
We do pay attention to feedback. We may not respond, but we do listen. We appreciate that this is a complicated problem. And we appreciate the participation of all of our FAH donors.



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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 07:23:19 (permalink)
Seems someone from one or the other is the cause of the attacks on the coin pools we x folders have moved to.
Just goes to show how sorry and mean the people at FF can be to donors along with this new change.
Doing stuff like this its a wonder anyone folds now days,
soon people will wake up to there ways and move on to newer and better things.
 
Edit lol funny how they stopped the attack on one litecoin site as soon as someone pointed a finger.
just goes to show who is read and doing these attack.
post edited by TheWolf - 2013/12/20 07:29:46

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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 07:30:21 (permalink)
texinga
Response from Dr. Kasson (via the FF) who is the one person from PG that could actually engage donors on this issue.  I found the brief response polite, aloof and lacking in content.  If this is the best he can do, the guy that runs the Bigadv projects, it would have been just as well to have remained silent IMO.  Not one question, clarification, nada to the very donors that have been participating in the Bigadv projects.
 

Re: Change in BA requirements

by kasson » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:00 pmWe do pay attention to feedback. We may not respond, but we do listen. We appreciate that this is a complicated problem. And we appreciate the participation of all of our FAH donors.



*G* That was in response to my post... interesting it brought out the Dr.  I also took it as a mild 'yeah we listen but we don't really hear' sort of conveyance.


 
Horvat
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:11:51 (permalink)
Viper97
 
 I also took it as a mild 'yeah we listen but we don't really hear' sort of conveyance.


More like 'yeah we listen but we don't really care'. Hey no problem, since my whole server rack of 2P Intel servers will be useless to Pande Group, I'm sure IBM (aka WCG) would love to have them running their programs.
post edited by Horvat - 2013/12/20 08:14:15




bcavnaugh
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:37:19 (permalink)
Looks like we are on a Downward Path for or Team, at least wait till next year to drop all your 2P & 4P Rigs from Folding.
You are all of our Team Members that led me down the Path of Folding for folding@evga
                                                                               So Sad
So SadSo Sad
                                                                              So Sad
 
                                                                               Day 2
        
 
                                                                                 Day 3
        
                                    Day 4 Good News as well, we are heading back up.
       
                                                                                Day 5
       
                                                                            Day 6
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/24 08:08:33

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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:43:00 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Looks like we are on a Downward Path for or Team, at least wait till next year to drop all your 2P & 4P Rigs from Folding.
You are all of our Team Members that led me down the Path of Folding for folding@evga
                                                                               So Sad
So SadSo Sad
                                                                              So Sad
 


That's what a strike should look like in the beginning, that scale will get even lower soon.

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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:48:00 (permalink)
Is this what we will have to do to Fold Next Year?
 
[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjOW5iW7dJQ[/tube]
 
I give up! (On the youtube video)
 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2013/12/20 09:08:48

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TheWolf
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:53:41 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
I this what we will have to do to Fold Next Year?
 
[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjOW5iW7dJQ[/tube]
 
I give up!
 


That's very old news, but I get your point.
PG shot there self in the foot with that mega folding farm by not including those type of video cards in future plains like core 17.
Now someone has a bunch of high priced hardware that is of no use to FaH.

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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:56:02 (permalink)
This looks a bit like the EVGA bucks folders have dropped out and some of us moving our rigs to the WCG Christmas Challenge.  I'll be folding and crunching on a half month each basis until I'm no longer able to fold.
 
Alas... it's what I feared would happen though.  FAH has finally pushed the button and folks are beginning to say enough.  I'd want to look at other teams trend lines though... before drawing a conclusion.


 
cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2013/12/20 08:58:11 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Looks like we are on a Downward Path for or Team, at least wait till next year to drop all your 2P & 4P Rigs from Folding.
You are all of our Team Members that led me down the Path of Folding for folding@evga
                                                                               So Sad
So SadSo Sad
                                                                              So Sad
 


Why wait till next year? Move those high dollar rigs to crunching and enjoy the show. The move will show PG just how many donors they lost by doing something that makes little to no sense. They gave no reason behind it and could care less about the uproar. I am now crunching away at WCG and doing all medical research like FAH just with out the drama. We have a chance here to make CRUNCHING[link=mailto:CRUNCHING@EVGA]@EVGA[/link] rock. COME TO THE DARK SIDE (CRUNCHING) the force is strong here and no drama.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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