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Leaking hydro copper

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MaverickWH
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2020/04/22 14:34:29 (permalink)
I sent an e-mail to Evga's support but have not gotten any replies - not even a confirmation that my support e-mail request was received.
 
Anyway - I have a few black edition RTX 2080ti's that i purchased along with the hydro copper blocks a little over a year and half ago.  Part #400-HC-1389-B1.  I'm fairly certain that they are out of warranty.  Anyway, one of them is now leaking - from what I can tell between the plexiglass and the block.  What are my options for replacement?  I'm guessing that since it's not even listed on EVGA's site any more, than they no longer carry them.  I vaguely remember reading here somewhere that they sometimes stock extra parts specifically for RMA purposes.  I would rather stick with EVGA and get a direct replacement (even at full cost), but if that's not doable, does anyone have experience with EKs and the 2080ti's?  Going through their configurator, it appears that one of these may work:
 
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vector-rtx-re-ti-copper-plexi
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vector-rtx-re-ti-copper-acetal
 
Thanks

2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
 
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/22 14:46:56 (permalink)
    On the side where the ports are ?
     
    Between plexi & metal is an O-ring ?
     
    If screw came loose or plexi cracked could cause leak
     
    If you registered the Parts you can look to see if they are still "in warranty" - the standard New GPU warranty is 3 yr
     
    EVGA CS - maybe call & ask if parts are sold
     


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    MaverickWH
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/22 15:31:51 (permalink)
    It's a very slow leak and I haven't dismantled yet to know with 100% certainty where it's coming from.  What I do know is that all of the fittings in my case between CPU and GPUs and water pump were all dry.  Most of the coolant appeared to drip from the bottom RTX card.  There was a little coolant that was pooled directly on the inner side of the plexi at the far end of the card.  I currently have a paper towel under it and will have to wait until the weekend to tear it apart.  I normally run my computer 24/7, but left it off last night.  Over the course of 8 hours today, the paper towel was mostly damp, but not even close to soaked.
     
    According to their warranty page, the hydro coppers are 1 year (Part #400-HC-1389-B1):
    1 Year Standard Limited Warranty Product Suffixes: -B1, -B9, -BR, -R1, -RX, -000001 to -000200
     
    I'll give EVGA another day or two to reply to see what potential options I have.  Appreciate the response.
     
    Thanks

    2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
    https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
     
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    MaverickWH
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 17:48:05 (permalink)
    Some more info...  I talked to their support yesterday and it's out of warranty nor do they stock it.  I put a new paper towel under it and after a few hours checked it and it's definitely a bad enough leak that I decided to not wait for the weekend.
     
    I pulled both cards out and after disassembling to try and pinpoint the leak, I could see some coolant between the outer plexi (no more than a cover) and the functional plexi.  There was a little bit of coolant on some of the hex screw heads.  After finally getting it all disassembled, I'm about 99% certain I found the problem, and now I'm worried my other card will eventually leak.
     
    There were no o-ring installed.  There is clearly a slot for it...  I talked to their support briefly and sent them some pictures.  I wanted to get a definitive answer if there was supposed to be an o-ring, but they guy I talked to wasn't familiar with the hydro copper.  He was going to forward the e-mail to some other team members so that they could look at the pictures and by any luck they will have a spare o-ring or two.
     
    https://imgur.com/a/8kOrRNh
     
    Hopefully they have one, or else I may resort to using some strong gasket maker to try and seal it before I buy a different one.  I'm honestly surprised it held up this long before leaking without a gasket.

    edit by Cool GTX insert image  (copy Image location)   Ultimate Self-Starter Thread For New Members

    2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
    https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
     
    #4
    MaverickWH
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 17:56:08 (permalink)
    Okay - I must be getting blind.  The pictures I took actually reflect a little different in the groves.  I took an exacto knife, and there is an o-ring there.  I'm just used to black ones and couldn't see it under the light.  So it's there, and I don't have a clue where the fluid was leaking from.

    2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
    https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
     
    #5
    sparetimepc
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 18:07:08 (permalink)
    I suppose if you can't find the o-ring you can probably just put some clear silicon in the o-ring groove with the o-ring and put it back together. Won't take much thats for sure. 




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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 18:27:15 (permalink)
    I use the same GPU and block and when I went and installed everything, it had a slight leakage on it's right side port on the backside if that makes sense.  I had taken pictures over time as it had a moist looking spot near the port.  It wouldn't seal right but once I put plumbers tape as I forgot to put some as I usually do for ALL my fittings and they all currently do, the leakage has since stop and I just don't mess with it.  
     
    After looking at your images, I really can't tell what I'm looking at since there's too many things going on and reflections.  If you could circle the spots that would be great.
     
    I would replace the O-ring since I can't make out that there even was one and put the leaking GPU at the bottom of your SLI, presuming nothing of importantance is underneath.
     
    Worst case scenario, EK blocks would be a wise choice. 

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 19:19:22 (permalink)
    Clear O-ring is easy to miss if your not looking for it
     
    If EVGA does not sell O-rings -I'd search for O-rings the correct size --> maybe EVGA has the information to share
     
    If Not --> I'd look at industrial O-ring kits.  O-ring material that you cut to length & glue the ends to make your own
     
    The plexi top should contact the O-ring & Not the metal block ---> before the screws are tightened
     
     
     
    EK has a nice little pump for checking for leaks ..... in your loop. 

    However there are other ways to use it
     
    1) Seal your block & use soap & water to make a solution - to test for leaks --> Soap Bubbles
     
    2) Or submerge it in a bucket of water & look for the air that is escaping
     
     
     




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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/23 21:30:39 (permalink)
    Just be cautious with the EK leak tester, and the pressure range is intended for EK blocks and materials. Some folks used it on their blocks from other companies and cracked the plexus due to over pressure. Just go to the minimum amount to test for leaks.
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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/24 00:47:20 (permalink)
    Aquacomputer has one but with 40% less the pressure range of EK's that might damage non EK products.
     
    I still do the old fashion 24 hr leak test of new builds and 12 hours if it's for a small section of the loop that was touched and or changed.

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    MaverickWH
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/25 12:15:00 (permalink)
    I appreciate all the great information and suggestions.
     
    I should have taken some pictures before I disassembled.  Before removing the first plexi cover, I could see coolant on top of the hex bolts that holds the two main parts together.  While it's possible it may have been leaking from the input/output ports, there was enough coolant pooled that I couldn't get a definitive answer.  There was enough coolant embedded in the groove between where the plexi and backplate were held together, that I'm certain it was leaking from the main o-ring.
     
    I had enough spare parts laying around along with some automotive gasket maker (strong enough that I've previously used on car water pump).  I built a test loop with some soapy solution and so far after about 30 minutes, no signs of coolant or bubbles.  I'll let it run for 24 hours and recheck.
     
    While ek's is a nice alternative, it occurred to me that i'd have to buy a pair of them as the sli water connectors I have will not mate up.  If the loop test fails, then I'll go down that path.
     
    Here's a picture of the ghetto test loop I scrapped together.  
     

     

    2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
    https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
     
    #11
    sparetimepc
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/25 12:26:53 (permalink)
    Whatever it takes to make it work and get the job done, looks like the trusty red gasket maker at work. 




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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/25 18:15:23 (permalink)
    Sorry if I was Not Clear ... soapy water (mostly soap) was to leak test when pushing air into the block, leaking Air would cause bubbles
     
    I use the edge of a paper towel to spot check for Any Dampness, helps you pinpoint the source. 
     
    Just strategically work the dry edge to every spot that might be the source of your leak .... if it gets damp ... bingo

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    MaverickWH
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 18:26:22 (permalink)
    Update - I reassembled after letting my leak test run for 24 hours and not even a slight hint of a leak.  Paper towel over all of it and couldn't find as much as a drop.  Reassembled everything back to together, and the card wouldn't recognize at all or even light up.  Device manager didn't show it...  Stress starting to set in.  Tore it all down again and put into system without waterblock and had the light connector hooked up to it to test it (a simple power test for about 5 seconds is plenty).  Tried several different power adapters and both pcie ports - no luck.  I was worried about too much tim, but even that looked fine with minimal residue.  Now I was worried that I bumped off a capacitor or some other component on it.  I was just about ready to give up when I noticed that the small bracket that goes around the GPU wasn't reflecting light.  Now I was terrified as I'm sure I shorted the card out.  Took it off, and sure enough, there was a small black gasket on it, and I had the shiny part down on the card.  After reversing it, I put it back in without the waterblock for a quick test and to my surprise, the card was showing some life again by showing that colorful EVGA logo.  Got her all reassembled and it loaded right up as if nothing ever happened, so it's back in business. 
     
    I also ended up swapping it to the higher slot in my system (it was at the bottom).  I added a few pictures of the other card, and it certainly looks like it's a matter of time before it starts a substantial leak as there is residue on the seams (the cards install upside down, so the residue is not resting on the components)
     
    Anyway - a big thanks to all the replies and a few more lessons learned.  Best of all, the fix only cost me some of my own time.
     


    2x EVGA RTX 2080ti black editions w/ hydro copper blocks.
    https://imgur.com/a/rdAE8JI
     
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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 19:03:31 (permalink)
    Great fix and glad you caught that bracket that has made it's ways around, giving folks panic attacks including myself. lol  I hope the engineers see this and cover both sides so no matter which side it's on, it wouldn't cause an issue but for now, enjoy!  

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 19:13:15 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    It wouldn't seal right but once I put plumbers tape as I forgot to put some as I usually do for ALL my fittings and they all currently do, the leakage has since stop and I just don't mess with it.

    Eww!  Gross.  Bad advice.  Don't use plumbers tape on computer water cooling.  1) The little shreds of plumbers tape can plug up the microfins inside waterblocks (and other locations) and 2) It isn't necessary since it is a fitting sealed by an o-ring.  If the o-ring isn't sealing, there is something else wrong.  It makes no sense to seal the threads with thread tape and ignore the leaking o-ring problem.  O-rings should seal with nothing more than hand-tight.  You can tighten it more than hand-tight, but the point is that if it doesn't seal hand-tight, you have a mating issue.  Check that both surfaces are flat and smooth.  Check that the o-ring isn't damaged.  Check that the o-ring has a light coat of Vaseline.  And check that the fitting's threads aren't too long, the threads aren't galled up, and that there is nothing else preventing the o-ring from making full contact; the o-ring should make full contact just by turning in the fitting hand-tight.
      
    Don't use thread tape to fix an o-ring problem.  Ever.  That's super ghetto.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/04/27 19:20:43

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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 20:27:58 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    GTXJackBauer
    It wouldn't seal right but once I put plumbers tape as I forgot to put some as I usually do for ALL my fittings and they all currently do, the leakage has since stop and I just don't mess with it.

    Eww!  Gross.  Bad advice.  Don't use plumbers tape on computer water cooling.  1) The little shreds of plumbers tape can plug up the microfins inside waterblocks (and other locations) and 2) It isn't necessary since it is a fitting sealed by an o-ring.  If the o-ring isn't sealing, there is something else wrong.  It makes no sense to seal the threads with thread tape and ignore the leaking o-ring problem.  O-rings should seal with nothing more than hand-tight.  You can tighten it more than hand-tight, but the point is that if it doesn't seal hand-tight, you have a mating issue.  Check that both surfaces are flat and smooth.  Check that the o-ring isn't damaged.  Check that the o-ring has a light coat of Vaseline.  And check that the fitting's threads aren't too long, the threads aren't galled up, and that there is nothing else preventing the o-ring from making full contact; the o-ring should make full contact just by turning in the fitting hand-tight.
      
    Don't use thread tape to fix an o-ring problem.  Ever.  That's super ghetto.




    I've been around veteran watercoolers for several years and by some, this has been done for almost 20 years.  It still works great and adds extra security.  It's put on the thread, not INSIDE THE BLOCK and if you can't properly loop a small piece of plumbers tape around a fitting's thread, you shouldn't be custom cooling in the first place and it has actually saved me several times from stubborn slow leakers.  Just because you may have issues with it, doesn't mean others will. 

    At the end of the day, to each their own.  I know what works and has been proven by many in the custom cooling field.
     
    With that said, I suggest you spend some time redoing your loop.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 22:06:16 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
     
    I've been around veteran watercoolers for several years and by some, this has been done for almost 20 years.

    Whichever veterans you are around have no idea what they are doing.  This is basic.  An o-ring should seal hand-tight every time.
     
    These fittings don't use tapered thread.  Thread tape is designed for tapered threads.  Pointless.  The thread tape won't jam up properly and seal in the way thread tape is meant to seal.  On the trailing side, the threads will be in tension and the thread tape will seal on that side in compression, but the trough of the thread on the leading side will be under no load and you will still have a spiral leakage path for fluid to leak out.  You are basically trying to jam as much thread tape in there as you can to plug up that spiral leakage path, but it shreds under shear load as you thread the fitting in, and then as soon is the fitting is tight, the one side compresses, and the other side opens up; any tape which did jam on that side is instantly uncompressed as soon as the fitting is tightened.  It's literally like trying to slide a piece of thread tape between two surfaces which are 0.010" apart, and then once you do that, open up the gap to 0.015" apart.  Pointless.  Waste of time.  Gross.  Don't do it.
     
    Simple sketch:

    See the spiral leakage path in blue and realize that this is a 3 dimensional object and that it is one long coil which is not sealed.
     
    Again, this is basic.  Search anywhere about BSPP, BSPM, or JIC thread and see for yourself.  Everyone everywhere will recommend NOT using thread tape or thread dope because 1) it doesn't work properly (because they aren't tapered threads), and 2) it can cause tightening, mating, and sealing issues with the o-ring mating surface which is what was designed to form the seal in the first place.  And then, of course, in this application, it is especially harmful for shavings of thread tape to wind up in this cooling system's tiny passages.
    GTXJackBauer
    With that said, I suggest you spend some time redoing your loop.

    In what way?
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/04/27 22:50:07

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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/27 23:50:07 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    GTXJackBauer
     
    I've been around veteran watercoolers for several years and by some, this has been done for almost 20 years.

    Whichever veterans you are around have no idea what they are doing.  This is basic.  An o-ring should seal hand-tight every time.
     
    These fittings don't use tapered thread.  Thread tape is designed for tapered threads.  Pointless.  The thread tape won't jam up properly and seal in the way thread tape is meant to seal.  On the trailing side, the threads will be in tension and the thread tape will seal on that side in compression, but the trough of the thread on the leading side will be under no load and you will still have a spiral leakage path for fluid to leak out.  You are basically trying to jam as much thread tape in there as you can to plug up that spiral leakage path, but it shreds under shear load as you thread the fitting in, and then as soon is the fitting is tight, the one side compresses, and the other side opens up; any tape which did jam on that side is instantly uncompressed as soon as the fitting is tightened.  It's literally like trying to slide a piece of thread tape between two surfaces which are 0.010" apart, and then once you do that, open up the gap to 0.015" apart.  Pointless.  Waste of time.  Gross.  Don't do it.
     
    Simple sketch:

    See the spiral leakage path in blue and realize that this is a 3 dimensional object and that it is one long coil which is not sealed.
     
    Again, this is basic.  Search anywhere about BSPP, BSPM, or JIC thread and see for yourself.  Everyone everywhere will recommend NOT using thread tape or thread dope because 1) it doesn't work properly (because they aren't tapered threads), and 2) it can cause tightening, mating, and sealing issues with the o-ring mating surface which is what was designed to form the seal in the first place.  And then, of course, in this application, it is especially harmful for shavings of thread tape to wind up in this cooling system's tiny passages.
    GTXJackBauer
    With that said, I suggest you spend some time redoing your loop.

    In what way?




    No one here is saying do this to replace a faulty o-ring.  An O-ring is priority no question about it.  What you're overly explaining here is something in a commercial setting but we aren't running high pressurized loops Tyger.  I've been taping my threads this since the beginning of time while others were doing it longer than me.  Some were teachers, plumbers, engineers, etc.  I'm sure everyone around the globe will have a different approach and opinion.  No need to make it more complicating.  It's a PC loop. lol
     
    As for your loop, I would never recommend that routing since the flow will enter and leave the least resistant as not all blocks will get an identical flow rate and the flow has to pass through the blocks again on its way out which leaves me to believe your bottom block is getting the most flow.  If you left the GPUs in parallel and had it leaving out the CPU block would be more logical.

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    #19
    YoltsBp
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 03:37:24 (permalink)
    Well i guess evga hydro coppers are just complete trash i personally bought the 2080 super then had to buy 3 hydro blocks for it not to over heat then the stupid thing shorted out of nowhere and amazon let me return the card. I in place decided to buy the 2080s ftw3 hydro copper and the stupid thing cant even hit 2085mhz and it runs 65c in games complete trash and now i have to worry about leaks jesus evga what in the heck.
    post edited by YoltsBp - 2020/04/28 06:15:53
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 06:20:41 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    No one here is saying do this to replace a faulty o-ring.  An O-ring is priority no question about it.  What you're overly explaining here is something in a commercial setting but we aren't running high pressurized loops Tyger.  I've been taping my threads this since the beginning of time while others were doing it longer than me.  Some were teachers, plumbers, engineers, etc.  I'm sure everyone around the globe will have a different approach and opinion.  No need to make it more complicating.  It's a PC loop. lol

    In summary, the thread tape does zero good, and can do harm. So, don't do it!
    As for your loop, I would never recommend that routing since the flow will enter and leave the least resistant as not all blocks will get an identical flow rate and the flow has to pass through the blocks again on its way out which leaves me to believe your bottom block is getting the most flow.  If you left the GPUs in parallel and had it leaving out the CPU block would be more logical.

    I know, but it worked good and the routing was clean and aesthetic. At least it didn't do more harm than good. ;)

    I have one GTX 1080 now, not two GTX 580s. Thanks for your unsolicited critique anyway.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/04/28 06:44:46

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    #21
    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 08:33:02 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
     
    Thanks for your unsolicited critique anyway.
     

     
    You're the one that came in here trying to discredit me while I was helping another member.  You're treating PC loops as if they were some commercial piping in some high rise not to mention you couldn't even figure out that your loop's routing was a huge no-no.  You should do some more research before going after others.

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    #22
    ty_ger07
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 08:41:33 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    ty_ger07
     
    Thanks for your unsolicited critique anyway.
     

     
    You're the one that came in here trying to discredit me while I was helping another member.

    Well, you were giving bad advice.  I wasn't offering off-topic critique.
    You're treating PC loops as if they were some commercial piping in some high rise

    What's wrong is wrong.  It doesn't matter the application.
    not to mention you couldn't even figure out that your loop's routing was a huge no-no.  You should do some more research before going after others.

    It's not a huge no-no.  Parallel versus series loops is a choice.  It's not a right vs wrong thing.  You may be shocked to realize that I tested both series and parallel, didn't see much difference in performance, and choose parallel because it looked better.  Shocking!  I've been water cooling for 13 years.  Come on, give me some credit.
     
    Thread tape on a straight thread fitting on the other hand IS a huge no-no.

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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 09:51:41 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
     
    Parallel versus series loops is a choice.  It's not a right vs wrong thing.  You may be shocked to realize that I tested both series and parallel, didn't see much difference in performance, and choose parallel because it looked better.  Shocking!  I've been water cooling for 13 years.  Come on, give me some credit.
     

     
    I wasn't implying that parrallel GPUs are a no-no but your routing to the CPU block and BACK to the GPUs in parrallel was a no-no.  
     
    I guess at the end of the day, I will stick with my guns and you will stick with yours.  Have a good day Tyger.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 09:58:48 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    ty_ger07
     
    Parallel versus series loops is a choice.  It's not a right vs wrong thing.  You may be shocked to realize that I tested both series and parallel, didn't see much difference in performance, and choose parallel because it looked better.  Shocking!  I've been water cooling for 13 years.  Come on, give me some credit.
     

     
    I wasn't implying that parrallel GPUs are a no-no but your routing to the CPU block and BACK to the GPUs in parrallel was a no-no.  

    What are you talking about? They are all three in parallel. The top GPU block is running BACK to the bottom GPU block because they are parallel. The CPU is running BACK to the top GPU block because they are in parallel. All 3 are in parallel.

    Oh, so now it is fine to run two GPUs in parallel but NOT fine to run a CPU in parallel? Are you clueless or delusional?

    Like I said, I performed testing and the performance impact wasn't enough for me to avoid doing a triple parallel routing for appearance and simplicity.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/04/28 10:02:11

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    #25
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Leaking hydro copper 2020/04/28 11:58:23 (permalink)
    Stop posting off topic. Few free to argue it out in the PM’s or create a new thread. None of this conversation needs to carry on in this thread. Thank you.
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