Bkatt
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:46 AM
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That sucks what happened to your site dude...
Really must this thread be a arguement about Hackers and Hrackers?
If i Smack my crackers with a Axe does that means im Hacking my crackers?
oh smack my Axe with a Hammer than im cracking my hacker?
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:01 AM
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You baffle me at times Mr. Kitteh =P
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Orici
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:15 AM
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fredbsd
The term 'hacker' is a media driven, misplaced term. If your'e going to use the term, use it correctly. It is on-topic considering the title of the thread.
A 'hacker' is someone who mucks about...finds a solution to a problem they are working on. Movies and television have often misused this word to describe malicious folk.
If you OC, you're a hacker. Think about it.
A 'cracker', on the other hand, is someone who breaks things with malicious intent. You know...someone who breaks Windows to steal CC information etc. Or ruins someones website.
This is somewhat old school and I certainly do not expect folks to understand the differences between the terms. But, in fairness, not all 'hackers' are bad people. I hack all the bloody time. I don't, however, do things maliciously.
You know the guys who got Linux to run on an Xbox? That's a hacker.
Again, I am sorry to be so nitpicky. But I really do dislike seeing the term misplaced.
QFT
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Bkatt
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:32 AM
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:39 AM
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AHHH you kitteh trying to teeeech me >_<
QTF = Quit Failing, Troll?
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b7cao
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:41 AM
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Quoted for the truth lol.
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Bkatt
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:44 AM
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I think it means "Quit F**king Talking"
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:59 AM
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BAD KITTEH! Youz get baffs!
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YerBuddy
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:01 AM
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I've played some hackisack and I eat crackers with my soup...
Whatever... I hate hackers too!
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:12 AM
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were they atleast saltine crackers?
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snip931
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:25 AM
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fredbsd
Can I correct something without causing a major bru-ha-ha?
You hate crackers, not hackers. Hackers are people that muck around with something to get it to work...a cracker is someone who breaks into something with malicious intent. You don't hate hackers, you hate crackers.
Hackers are good. They are the folks who figure out how to overclock, run an OS on hardware it's not suppose to run on, etc. etc. You know, those geeks who do things just because it's a challenge with no malicious intent.
Crackers, on the other hand, are the folks who break into things to do bad things.
Sorry, I just hate seeing the terms misplaced.
well said sir
post edited by snip931 - Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:26 AM
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:30 AM
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snip931
fredbsd
Can I correct something without causing a major bru-ha-ha?
You hate crackers, not hackers. Hackers are people that muck around with something to get it to work...a cracker is someone who breaks into something with malicious intent. You don't hate hackers, you hate crackers.
Hackers are good. They are the folks who figure out how to overclock, run an OS on hardware it's not suppose to run on, etc. etc. You know, those geeks who do things just because it's a challenge with no malicious intent.
Crackers, on the other hand, are the folks who break into things to do bad things.
Sorry, I just hate seeing the terms misplaced.
well said sir
Can't be "well said" with false information....
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nateman_doo
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:53 AM
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YerBuddy
I've played some hackisack and I eat crackers with my soup...
Whatever... I hate hackers too!
lol! man... I could go for some chicken soup. this train is de-railing very quickly...
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Bkatt
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:55 AM
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Cracker. 
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Senistr
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Moltenlava
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:07 AM
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manny8127
fredbsd
Can I correct something without causing a major bru-ha-ha?
You hate crackers, not hackers. Hackers are people that muck around with something to get it to work...a cracker is someone who breaks into something with malicious intent. You don't hate hackers, you hate crackers.
Hackers are good. They are the folks who figure out how to overclock, run an OS on hardware it's not suppose to run on, etc. etc. You know, those geeks who do things just because it's a challenge with no malicious intent.
Crackers, on the other hand, are the folks who break into things to do bad things.
Sorry, I just hate seeing the terms misplaced.
Some white folks may get offended by this.
I only really get offended when i am called a "Jive Turkey", being called a "Cracker" doesn't bother me too much.
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Lord_Phan
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:34 AM
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Hellcat714
Are clan website got hacked we lost everything in are forum all are pics and all the info we put up over the years is gone. Oh well i guess its time for a new beginning. Since we have no forum anymore i had to vent somewhere so once again i would like to say.
I HATE HACKERS !!! 
Sorry to hear about your problem man, that sucks. If I may though, I'd like to correct your english. You're using the word 'are' from the verb to be in place of the word 'our' from to own. What you meant to say was "Our Forums...."
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nateman_doo
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:41 AM
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Moltenlava
I only really get offended when i am called a "Jive Turkey", being called a "Cracker" doesn't bother me too much.
I can honestly say I have never heard the term Jive Turkey before? 
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:51 AM
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LoL I have..but then again i've been subjected to mind numbing old movies....
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fredbsd
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:57 AM
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My apologies for indeed causing a bru-ha-ha. Perhaps I've been around this stuff too long... Anyway...if you really want to read up on it...here: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=1400 "The inheritors of the technical tradition of the word “hacker” as it was used at MIT sometimes take offense at the sloppy use of the term by journalists and others who are influenced by journalistic inaccuracy." Moreover... "A hacker, in the classic sense of the term, is someone with a strong interest in how things work, who likes to tinker and create and modify things for the enjoyment of doing so. For some, it is a compulsion, while for others it is a means to an end that may lead them to greater understanding of something else entirely. The RFC 1392: Internet Users’ Glossary defines “hacker” as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. The term is often misused in a pejorative context, where “cracker” would be the correct term. See also: cracker." Way back in the day...it was a compliment to be called a hacker. ;>( Perhaps today a better word if 'modder' or 'tinkerer' as the media certainly has hijacked the term and it's morphed into something different than it's first definition (as it relates to technology anyway).
"BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC."
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:02 PM
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Hence why I explained Hacker as the parent...and cracker as the child....The world revolves in a full rotation yet again my buddies.....yet again...
So Brain.....what are we going to do today?
Pinky...the same thing we do everyday.....Try to take care of the world!
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fredbsd
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:07 PM
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Senistr
Can't be "well said" with false information....
See above post. It's not 'false' information. Unfortunately, it's accepted these days to interchange the terms. It's an affront to some of us who have been 'hacking' for 25+ years but I understand why folk wouldn't understand the difference as the term has been so maligned. Anyway...considering this thing took a turn for the worse...I again apologize. I too hate 'crackers'.
"BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC."
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:13 PM
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hackers can kiss my sweet a@@, damm idiots!!!!
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:21 PM
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seabigbear
hackers can kiss my sweet a@@, damm idiots!!!!
In other words....rawr! o_O And still is false information...Hackers is still the first term to have came out initially. But o well. Everyone has their own opinion. But "hacker" was used in term by the military in which it had the original networking between the colleges before the WWW became popular and opened up to the public. Just because the Term Dictionary doesn't state the term as identical, you must look into things deeper in such cases that it didn't originate in the civilized world. The government started it way back when and what the government realesed as in such terms, would be the correct terminology. ^_^
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mrfakerson
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:41 PM
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LOL@ some white ppl might get offended
post edited by mrfakerson - Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:42 PM
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Suicidalgi
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:27 PM
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Lord_Phan
Hellcat714
Are clan website got hacked we lost everything in are forum all are pics and all the info we put up over the years is gone. Oh well i guess its time for a new beginning. Since we have no forum anymore i had to vent somewhere so once again i would like to say.
I HATE HACKERS !!!
Sorry to hear about your problem man, that sucks.
If I may though, I'd like to correct your english. You're using the word 'are' from the verb to be in place of the word 'our' from to own. What you meant to say was "Our Forums...."
I never noticed i must have been really S***** well nvm what i was at the time.
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:03 PM
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This is an article coming from http://www.lemis.com/hacker.html Which dates back to even the late 80's to where people are refered to as "Hackers" as the description follows. Notice how the correct term is stated as "cracker" but doesn't necessarily say that they are "crackers." And notice how it shows a survey on how people would correlate who is what. 80% will say that it is a hacker. So. For the forthright saying that these people are a cracker, is not a exact truth statement. So when I posted earlier about the "Hacker" being the parent word, is the truth. The "cracker" is a child word of the root "Hacker" which in this being said, the OP is correct when he states he hates hackers. Feel free to keep searching the web about a difference, but when you post a disapproval of something, make sure the site has a reference table to back it up. The work hacker goes back before the 70's and 80's but I am not going to waste any more time on trying to find more information about this. It's a lesson learned in the computer and literacy world that we can all take care upon for future reference.
The term “hacker” by Greg Lehey Over the course of the years, a number of terms have arisen in the computer subculture and then been taken over into mainstream usage. Even such everyday terms as hardware and software once had an amusing sound to them. In the course of their evolution, some words have changed their meaning, or their meanings have been modified somewhat. As Anthony Burgess observes in “A Breath of Air”, most such modifications are negative. :hacker: /n./ [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating {hack value}. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in `a Unix hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker', `network hacker'. The correct term for this sense is {cracker}. The term `hacker' also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see {network, the} and {Internet address}). It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see {hacker ethic}). It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled {bogus}). See also {wannabee}. The popular press has decided to use the word “hacker” only in sense (8). In any documentation I write, and any documentation on this site, I use it in the senses 1 to 5 in the list above. What do you think? As of 13 April 1988, ZDnet was conducting a survey. They use the word “hacker” to mean “cracker”, but their readers don't. When I looked, approximately 80% of the responders agreed with my usage. The Oxford English Dictionary's viewpoint The Oxford English Dictionary is considered the ultimate reference to the English language (if not the American). The entry for hacker(n) contains: 3. a. A person with an enthusiasm for programming or using computers as an end in itself. colloq. (orig. U.S.). 1976 J. Weizenbaum Computer Power & Human Reason iv. 118 The compulsive programmer, or hacker as he calls himself, is usually a superb technician. 1977 Time 5 Sept. 39/1 Some 500 retail outlets have opened in the past couple of years to sell and service microcomputersÄand serve as hangouts for the growing legions of home-computer nuts, or `hackers' as they call themselves. 1982 Sci. Amer. Oct. 110/1 In the jargon of computer science a hacker is someone who spends much of his time writing computer programs. 1983 Byte May 298/1 `Hacker' seems to have originated at MIT. The original German/Yiddish expression referred to someone so inept as to make furniture with an axe, but somehow the meaning has been twisted so that it now generally connotes someone obsessed with programming and computers but possessing a fair degree of skill and competence. 1984 Which Micro? Dec. 17/3 A hacker might spend more time playing his own version of PacMan than on useful program development. 1986 A & B Computing Nov. 16/3 The on-screen help is for the casual user but there's plenty for the hacker who wants to tinker with the software and tailor it for special purposes. b. A person who uses his skill with computers to try to gain unauthorized access to computer files or networks. colloq. 1983 Daily Tel. 3 Oct. 3/1 A hacker--computer jargon for an electronic eavesdropper who by-passes computer security systems--yesterday penetrated a confidential British Telecom message system being demonstrated live on BBC-TV. 1985 U.S.A. Today 18 Oct. a1/4 A gang of 23 teen-age computer hackers has done `significant damage' to Chase Manhattan Bank's records. 1986 TeleLink Sept.-Oct. 25/2 Just for fun, the hackers decided to drop a few APBs (All Points Bulletins) into the local police computer, with the result that, when out driving in his car, he was repeatedly stopped. You'll notice two points here: -
The term was originally used for honest hackers. -
All the references to “hacker” as a cracker come from the popular press.
$Id: hacker.html,v 1.2 2002/09/20 05:08:14 grog Exp grog $
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Senistr
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:05 PM
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And even within 2 searches of the one posted above...there is even this by http://imranontech.com/2008/04/01/the-origin-of-hacker/ which takes the orgin back to 1963, which, yes, was during the time of the first internet proofs of the network of computers between colleges. Read for yourself about the orgin of "Hackers" and find me somewhere documented on where "Crackers" showed up before. Everytime the media carries a sensationalist story about “hackers” committing cybercrimes there’s always an uproar among geeks about the misappropriation of the word “hacker”. Sadly it’s the geeks who are mistaken and not for once the media. A few years ago Fred Shapiro tracked down the earliest known reference to computer hackers: 1963 The Tech (MIT student newspaper) 20 Nov. 1 Many telephone services have been curtailed because of so-called hackers, according to Prof. Carlton Tucker, administrator of the Institute phone system. … The hackers have accomplished such things as tying up all the tie-lines between Harvard and MIT, or making long-distance calls by charging them to a local radar installation. One method involved connecting the PDP-1 computer to the phone system to search the lines until a dial tone, indicating an outside line, was found. … Because of the “hacking,” the majority of the MIT phones are “trapped.”
This is the earliest know usage of hacker in the modern sense, the TMRC Dictionary has it a few years earlier but not in the computer sense. The earliest computer related uses of the term (through anecdotal evidence) were also malicious (although the term wasn’t originally intended maliciously – in practice it was) in the sense that they involved gaining unauthorized access to computers to play on. The modern “geek” definition of the term hacker to reflect a skilled programmer didn’t originate until the late seventies when the term ended up in the later famous Jargon File. That doesn’t mean to say we should all stop using the word “hacker” in it’s positive sense, but as evidence advocating geeks we should at least stop claiming a false history to support our cause. As we all know where that ends up. In response to those who disagree with me: If you think I’m wrong then show me the evidence, if you can find earlier records showing hack(er)s being used in a computer context in a non-”black hat” manner I’d be happy to retract my post and put the evidence up here.
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Fiius
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Re:I hate hackers
Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:37 PM
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To be fair, those people referenced in The Tech article are Phreakers. MIT's own hackers page says that hacks are usually clever, benign, and ethical - phreaking fails the latter 2 of these. Quite a few MIT hacks involve illegal activities, such as breaking and entering, but didnt harm anyone or anything and so considered benign despite gaining unauthorized access which would normally be considered malicious. As for the earlier term of Hacker used in The Model Railroad Club at MIT, they are THE source for terms used by computer hackers ( TMRC @ Wikipedia). The computer "Hacker" didnt come about until the 70s because that was when computers finally reached widespread use. Previous to this time, computers could only be found at big Universities and corporations. The Computing History Museum breaks computing down into 4 generations; 1st is 1945-56, 2nd is 1956-63, 3rd is 1964 to 1971, and 4th is 1971 to current. ( link). Notice how hackers came about in the 4th generation; the era of widespread computer use. Before roughly 1971, there would be no massive use of a computer and thusly no need for a term "Hacker" There isnt false history with the term "Hacker" just because there makes no mention of "Cracker" - there wasnt need of the term until the mid to late 90s when nearly everyone could finally get a computer and get online. The Hacker has a code of ethics, ideals, and behaviors that arent followed by "Crackers", and so they argue against pollution of their terminology - they created a term to describe someone who does similar but not the same things they do. This is a part of their distinct style of communication. I'm with Fred; we call ourselves hackers and we follow a long and rich tradition. We have our own language, history, stories, and behaviors. We are a subculture. Would you be correct in calling a Goth an Emo? Absolutely not. Likewise, those that only manipulate computers are not hackers, they are crackers, script kiddies and/or lamers. EDIT: I really hope those that feel that the term Hacker is used correctly by the media take the time to research Hacker culture ( The Jargon File is a great resource). Hackers are about expanding the use of something; whether it be the mind, a piece of hardware, or some code. It is about creativity and the application of creativity to do something useful or novel. My favorite hack story is that of More Magic link. ~Fus
post edited by Fiius - Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:50 PM
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