ehabash1
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 08:31:18
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.
post edited by ehabash1 - 2020/10/31 09:01:52
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 08:38:37
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ehabash1
Den-ko
I'm getting really terrible results... I get 420W on stock OC bios during Firestrike Ultra, if I play with OC settings I go up to 479W at 139+/+900 and voltage set to max fans at max, am I missing something here?
nobody cares about your results
ehabash1
π
Holy facepalm of cringe π¬
Yeah im out good luck
You're still around?
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ehabash1
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 08:46:49
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yes because a new video came out supporting the things I've been saying. It's frustrating when you tell a kid that santa isnt real and here's the proof, but they refuse to believe you and point to the cookies that were eaten on xmas eve. Like what is it gona take?
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raleighsmvp
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 08:51:48
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Not sure if this is true for anyone else, but I was not seeing power above ~460W on new OC bios - until I changed the XOC target to prioritize Temp instead of Power.
Now these are my peak values from gpu-z after running msi kombustor (gl) furmark-donut @ 3840x2160 for around 15-20 mins:
peak numbers:
gpu clock: 2100
board power draw: 523.7W
pcie slot: 83.5W
8pin1: 144.8W
8pin2: 148W
8pin3: 145.8W
power consumption: 124.1% TDP
my xoc settings:
gpu clock +128
gpu voltage 0
mem clock 0
power target 119
gpu temp target 91 (prioritized)
This is on a 3090 ftw3 ultra received a couple weeks ago direct from evga (from waitlist notification, so not the first batch). Booted with OC BIOS, played for days, flashed beta OC BIOS, have powered off/rebooted a few times since then etc, driver 456.71
Edit: add gpu-z as power value source
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tayback longleg
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:06:27
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ehabash1
yes because a new video came out supporting the things I've been saying. It's frustrating when you tell a kid that santa isnt real and here's the proof, but they refuse to believe you and point to the cookies that were eaten on xmas eve. Like what is it gona take?
Link? Last video I seen of framechasers was not really conclusive IMO. Like yeah a shunt mod yields results, but where's the explanation of why the hardware is limited? just because an action yields a result doesn't mean you've reverse engineered the entire electrical device.
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arcky
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:22:47
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New Frame Chasers video proves and explains EVGA's 3090 FTW3 Ultra hardware limitations, proposes possible reasoning (artificial SKU segmenting and Kingpin revenue protection), and requests a response from EVGA regarding offering refunds and replacements for the hamstrung hardware: https://youtu.be/NFn-YiFQHsk
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markuaw1
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kevinc313
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:38:40
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arcky
New Frame Chasers video proves and explains EVGA's 3090 FTW3 Ultra hardware limitations, proposes possible reasoning (artificial SKU segmenting and Kingpin revenue protection), and requests a response from EVGA regarding offering refunds and replacements for the hamstrung hardware: https://youtu.be/NFn-YiFQHsk
You can't trust his technical content, reasoning or conclusions. Probably more half baked BS.
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:45:55
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New results. I put temp as target too. Civilization 6.
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BlackRSV4
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:50:17
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kevinc313
arcky
New Frame Chasers video proves and explains EVGA's 3090 FTW3 Ultra hardware limitations, proposes possible reasoning (artificial SKU segmenting and Kingpin revenue protection), and requests a response from EVGA regarding offering refunds and replacements for the hamstrung hardware:
You can't trust his technical content, reasoning or conclusions. Probably more half baked BS.
Agreed. That guy is an idiot. He didn't even know what a heatpipe on the backplate was, or have any idea of how a heatpipe works. A quick life tip for folks. Just because someone has a Youtube channel and was able to get a card does not mean they're an expert on anything. Other board members are posting results showing over 500 watts TDP, and they've even explained how they got it. Try reading instead of watching a video by someone not qualified.
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Den-ko
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 09:56:00
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I love tech youtubers but you guys have to remember that at the end of the day they're not a group of software engineers and hardware engineers with direct contact with manufacturer and if a work-around is found I would be fine with that.
The temp prio thing looks interesting to try out. Also I'm not a kid that doesn't believe in Santa, I'm a game developer that loves to play around with high end card OC settings and passionate about water cooling... :)
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telehog
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 10:03:50
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raleighsmvp
Not sure if this is true for anyone else, but I was not seeing power above ~460W on new OC bios - until I changed the XOC target to prioritize Temp instead of Power.
Now these are my peak values from gpu-z after running msi kombustor (gl) furmark-donut @ 3840x2160 for around 15-20 mins:
peak numbers:
gpu clock: 2100
board power draw: 523.7W
pcie slot: 83.5W
8pin1: 144.8W
8pin2: 148W
8pin3: 145.8W
power consumption: 124.1% TDP
my xoc settings:
gpu clock +128
gpu voltage 0
mem clock 0
power target 119
gpu temp target 91 (prioritized)
This is on a 3090 ftw3 ultra received a couple weeks ago direct from evga (from waitlist notification, so not the first batch). Booted with OC BIOS, played for days, flashed beta OC BIOS, have powered off/rebooted a few times since then etc, driver 456.71
Edit: add gpu-z as power value source
Use your test setting and got 495 watts, Then 100 % volts ,+ 1000 mem, + 139 core, with boost on and got 499.7 watts and 119 %, 84.3 watts on pcie slot power.
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tayback longleg
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 10:18:45
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markuaw1
Thanks for sharing this. Was able to recreate pretty close results. 503W max, ~470W average, and lows in the 460W range. Consistently above 450W. This is only when using furmark GL. No other program yields even close to similar results. I'm by no means satisfied with this as a final result. That being said, how can anyone conclude this is a hardware limitation if I and others with this card are repeatedly seeing wattage above the 450 limit (not from spikes). My major gripe with framechasers content with respect to this issue so far is the conclusions he draws. He has done great work at providing visibility for this issue and I am very grateful. What he is doing will play a very large role in us consumers actually getting what other brands are already providing. However, to perform a rudimentary modification and then draw results on the electrical design of a complicated piece of equipment does not lend toward his credibility. I'm glad he made the point of directly asking EVGA for a response. At the end of the day he may be absolutely right, it's just...as someone who has troubleshot electrical equipment and distribution systems, this feels premature.
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 10:43:52
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With temp target and water block, perhaps we are on to something ? I am still waiting for the optimus block to try this more, but as they started to sell batch 2 now maybe they will ship batch 1 soon. And I agree, if some programs or benchmarks shows consistent results over 450W, then it cannot be a limitation ? It is the same in Civ 6, if I stay on the scene where it draw a lot of power, it is running over 460-470W consistently as it looks and not only spiking. Edit: Yes, now I played around a bit and if starting from low temp on the GPU and start the scene in Civ 6 where it draws a lot of power, I get it to stay at 460-490W for constantly until thermal limit kick in then it reduce, I set it to 80 degrees just to try. So it shows thermal limit in GPUz now and not power limit. My theory is now, if I get water cooling and set the temperature target to say 70 degrees (which it never will reach) and OC a lot, perhaps it will boost to that then and use a lot of power constantly ? If I set linked target, it only spikes only to 480-500W then goes down to 430-450W. If I set power target and unlink it, it boosts much less to only 440-450W in the same scene.
post edited by zogge - 2020/10/31 10:56:38
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ehabash1
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:12:26
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Yea if you can get the pcie to 85watts then you can get your card to 500w using an unrealistic torture test. We know this.. The point is itβs an absolute fact that the fist 8pin is in a stupid ratio with the pcie and thats the problem Thats a point many of you cant grasp. If you watch the framechasers video (ignore the dude but look at what he saw with the stix card) The strix fills up the 3 8pins to 150watts and then maxes out the pcie... he wasnt seeing more than 50watts to the pcie This doesnt change even when he uses the 500watt evga bios, indicating the issue its from the Evga hardware itself and nothing related to the actual bios or firmware With our evga cards, the pcie is getting 75watts from the get go even at lower power draw, and due to power balancing of the board its not allowing the 3 8pins to receive more because the pcie is getting maxed out already This is a design flaw/failure by evga. We cant prove they are doing it intentionally but it is the wrong way to do it. I already states in another post... if you have to keep testing whether its working then i got news for you... ITS NOT WORKING If the 500w bios was working your port royal scores would jump 450-500 points right off the bat and you would consistently and easily see the 500watts being drawn all the time like I am
post edited by ehabash1 - 2020/10/31 11:15:02
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usafrcd
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:18:47
(permalink)
raleighsmvp
Not sure if this is true for anyone else, but I was not seeing power above ~460W on new OC bios - until I changed the XOC target to prioritize Temp instead of Power.
Now these are my peak values from gpu-z after running msi kombustor (gl) furmark-donut @ 3840x2160 for around 15-20 mins:
peak numbers:
gpu clock: 2100
board power draw: 523.7W
pcie slot: 83.5W
8pin1: 144.8W
8pin2: 148W
8pin3: 145.8W
power consumption: 124.1% TDP
my xoc settings:
gpu clock +128
gpu voltage 0
mem clock 0
power target 119
gpu temp target 91 (prioritized)
This is on a 3090 ftw3 ultra received a couple weeks ago direct from evga (from waitlist notification, so not the first batch). Booted with OC BIOS, played for days, flashed beta OC BIOS, have powered off/rebooted a few times since then etc, driver 456.71
Edit: add gpu-z as power value source
Apologies in advance for asking such a noobie question. How do you change prioritization from power to temp?
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usafrcd
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:23:03
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Disregard; I finally figured it out haha. For anyone else wondering, it's the little purple bracket to the right of the power/temp targets in PX1.
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GraphicsHog
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:35:25
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Can you please tell me the process if achieving the 500w for the 3090 ftw3 ultra? Thank you.
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drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:42:24
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drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:44:15
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so using any driver and version of px1 or afterburner, if you run multiple tasks to draw the gpu power it can climb and peak to 500w furmark and occt gpu tested on the 3090ftw ultra i believe a few of us did say it makes no sense for a ratio to be hard locked, and that not hardware related. Just wait for a new build release. but ppl will believe what they want to believe, doesn't help when youtubers start spitting out theories over n over again, then we got the sheep spreading it around
post edited by drunknfoo - 2020/10/31 11:55:05
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komicaaa
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:44:49
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3090 FTW3 ultra from launch day Amazing... First time i try Superposition Benchmark 1080p extreme just 440W then 4k extreme 460W then 8k extreme 460w then 8k extreme texture extreme (not opt) 488W Above are set target to temperature,but max is 488W   and now tried msi kombustor v4 4K/8K/16K are always <488w ,peak is 479w but when i let it run 10 mins,not turn off program...510W ps:power target is set to power 
post edited by komicaaa - 2020/10/31 11:48:29
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sirien
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 11:55:25
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The logic in the framechasers video seems 100% sound to me, why the hell is the evga one pulling 80watts from the pcie slot when it doesn't have to?
if nothing else just look at that fact while the other cards are pulling 50 watts at the slot.
On that note why hasn't EVGA responded to this?
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:01:10
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"The point is itβs an absolute fact that the fist 8pin is in a stupid ratio with the pcie and thats the problem"
I agree with the logic, but maybe a stupid question as I am not a HW/SW designer:
Is it identified on PCB level where that "ratio circuit" is located ? Or can that ratio be altered in BIOS ? Do we know this for sure yet ?
Yes, there is a way to fool the current bios and board by modding it to let the PCI E slot power look less and then feed more through the 8 pins, I get that, but do we know for a fact yet that the 1:1,667 is on HW/PCB level ?
What if the bios could be altered to have a 1:1,85 for instance ? Then if it fills up the 75W, we would still get 75 (PCI slot) +75*1,85*3 (8pins)=491W for instance , without modding. I know nothing of bioses so I am just guessing now but from a logic perspective, why not ?
Building on to that theory, as other cards use the fill-the-8-pins first methodology and then the pci slot, the 500W bios works and the ratio will not have an impact on these cards due to design (asus strix, msi trio x etc) as only the power limit 119% will.
But for EVGA cards the 1:1,667 ratio kicks in even if power limit is 119% due to circuit design and bios value and it could be as simple as changing this ratio in bios, release it and it would work?!
If that was the case though, you could ask yourself why EVGA is not doing this or commenting on it and that is what is making me a bit unhappy. The lack of communication and silence is really not okay.
Also the mysterious "800W unlocked bios from Kingpin" some talk about could have a ratio of 3 or something in that bios if so, who knows.
Do we have anyone with bios knowledge in this thread who could explain ?
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ehabash1
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:15:57
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If it was set from the bios then the strix card would have the same issue..
When he used the 500w bios on the asus card he saw only ~50w getting pulled from pcie
This indicates that the issue isnt at the software level at all as the same exact bios works perfectly fine on other cards that use a different hardware configuration
The reality is, the other 3090s that use 3x 8pin and flash this bios can actually get 500w from it. Gaming X Trio users have been showing off from day 1 massive clock speed improvements from the evga bios. Even framchasers got huge improvements going from 480w-500w.
20 stinking watts and his 3dmark acore went up 500 points
Everyone gets to enjoy the bios, except actual Evga customers
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drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:16:25
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sirien
The logic in the framechasers video seems 100% sound to me, why the hell is the evga one pulling 80watts from the pcie slot when it doesn't have to?
if nothing else just look at that fact while the other cards are pulling 50 watts at the slot.
On that note why hasn't EVGA responded to this?
pcie has a standard i.e i blew my old dfi board trying to draw out 120w in the past and the plastic slots melted
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telehog
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:17:40
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Water Blocks well make this interesting! Drop temp 4c on gpu 72c to 68 c same settings, went from 495 watts to 537.7 watts 128 %. Stay away from volt slider and drop temp.
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usafrcd
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:28:14
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500W seems to be working for me, but not on all benchmark applications. It took FurMark Donut to finally see 500W. Stock FTW3 Ultra on air, no shunt mods/etc. XOC BIOS only on OC; normal is still the original BIOS. Here is a screenshot of my PX1 settings and GPU-Z sensors.
post edited by usafrcd - 2020/10/31 12:30:39
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drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:29:20
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kevinc313
arcky
New Frame Chasers video proves and explains EVGA's 3090 FTW3 Ultra hardware limitations, proposes possible reasoning (artificial SKU segmenting and Kingpin revenue protection), and requests a response from EVGA regarding offering refunds and replacements for the hamstrung hardware: https://youtu.be/NFn-YiFQHsk
You can't trust his technical content, reasoning or conclusions. Probably more half baked BS.
Yup i question his content since i first saw one of his early 3000 series videos, called him out a few times.. Posted on overclockers board about how he just re-uses others released content and what he sees on boards to feed his herd of sheep.. but then his loyal followers start chiming in, meh Some of us did advise to just wait for a new build release, that putting a ratio lock based off of the pcie draw (standard) makes no sense for any manufacturer to do. (it'll just add more cost to the card, and logically makes no sense from a design perspective)
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tubnotub1
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 12:46:14
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@EVGA_JacobF would like some clarification on what is going on here, at this point we are two weeks in, most people that bought their card upon confirmation of a 500watt bios are nearing the halfway point of their return period (or if purchased from EVGA like myself have already exceeded it). We have a lot of information in this thread that shows the BIOS is capable of hitting 500 under extremely specific conditions, but will not do so on a consistent basis as other cards are able to do when using *this exact same BIOS*. If the card is design limited, let us know so we can move on. If it is something that can be resolved by a BIOS revision let us know so we know to wait. But at this point, someone at EVGA knows exactly what is going on and I (and I am sure other users) feel like we are being strung along until our return period elapses, or even worse, until post Kingpin sell-through.
@ehabash1 I appreciate your enthusiasm, I have read all your posts, I understand your stance.
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kevinc313
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/10/31 13:18:22
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