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Hot!EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC.

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 02:59:50 (permalink)
TrekCZ
How do you know score is glitched? Only from lower clock higher score?
 

Basically. I guess everyone's score is glitched. Not surprised though being that 3dmark software is trash.
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 04:35:53 (permalink)
I do not think that for 4090 core frequency translates 100% into performance. This card is too powerful so there is significant CPU and architectural bottleneck (memory, etc.). There are variables that are not visible in 3dmark results.
E.g. I run Port Royal in core 2900MHz but I have low score, because I have only 450W power limit, 5950x and 3600MHz CL14 memory - significant bottleneck for Port Royal that renders in low resolution, this means that I reached limit for GPU upgrades and next upgrade must be in my case CPU/mobo/mem.
 
Or what are arguments for "glitched" scores, because I do not understand it and I would like to.
zippytek
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 05:17:14 (permalink)
Sajin
zippytek
Sajin
My score got removed too. lol. Won’t be using 3dmark anymore as it’s clearly trash software.






https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32302266 & https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31650202
 
Those scores are fine, but mine isn't. 




it's not? go look at it again :)
 
i think the current issue is they've now determined the method for determining the valid clock to score range and have cleanup to do since so many people subbed glitched scores. i explained it earlier in one of the threads here, but basically bc the ecc state is off by default in the driver, normal oc behavior would make it fairly easy for the casual user who isn't acting maliciously to still get a higher score than should be possible for their clocks. it's a bug in 3DMark, and they've just now started to scrub the invalid scores from the HOF. the scores still remain, they just get flagged as invalid so they don't appear in the HOF.
 
another example is LOD/Tessellation. these settings must be at defaults to be valid for 3DMark HOF, but hwbot allows them for subs so you'll often see 2 subs from the same user (LOD / tess off v No LOD / tess on).
 
beyond all this, there are 100% people who have been banned from hwbot bc they actively know and exploit any glitches they find. that slinkyPC person is one of them lol
talon951
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 11:38:46 (permalink)
They'll have to automate removing scores if they decide to go that route. Otherwise it's just a game of whackamole.

Problem is, there are even in between cases. I made a PR run the other day that only artifacted for a few seconds. Score was still 100+pts higher than I can normally do.

I think either ECC has to be required, or just accept that artifacted runs are part of the game (not my preference).
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 12:02:43 (permalink)
zippytek
it's not? go look at it again :)

It’s still there, but marked invalid. lol.
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 12:10:21 (permalink)
My time spy and port royal scores are still valid? I guess I didn’t glitch those? lol.
ty_ger07
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 12:24:52 (permalink)
Hot take: who is 3dmark to all-the-sudden decide what score is valid? People had artifacted runs all the time in the past. Something about this GPU makes the artifacted run score significantly better than artifacted runs in the past? So what? Let everyone compete with artifacts. What are they going to do with 20 years worth of old artifacted runs? Try to find them and flag them?
Seems silly. 3dmark doesn't make the video card or drivers. Why try to police what result they will accept?
Worst of all, they can't detect and know for sure if the run was artifacted. They are just guessing. The new game will be to get enough artifacts to beat everyone, but no too many to get invalidated. The upper limit will creep up with more and more artifacts accepted as the average increases.
It's silly. Rather than make it a game, just open it up to everyone completely, or fix your ability to detect it in the program you made.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2022/11/08 12:30:13

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 12:32:02 (permalink)
ty_ger07
Hot take: who is 3dmark to all-the-sudden decide what score is valid? People had artifacted runs all the time in the past. Something about this GPU makes the artifacted run score significantly better than artifacted runs in the past? So what? Let everyone compete with artifacts. What are they going to do with 20 years worth of old artifacted runs? Try to find them and flag them?
Seems silly. 3dmark doesn't make the video card or drivers. Why try to police what result they will accept?

It’s their leaderboard, so they can do as they wish. My score was removed because someone complained about it. That is the reason my other scores are still up because nobody complained about them yet.
talon951
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 12:43:18 (permalink)
ty_ger07
Hot take: who is 3dmark to all-the-sudden decide what score is valid? People had artifacted runs all the time in the past. Something about this GPU makes the artifacted run score significantly better than artifacted runs in the past? So what? Let everyone compete with artifacts. What are they going to do with 20 years worth of old artifacted runs? Try to find them and flag them?
Seems silly. 3dmark doesn't make the video card or drivers. Why try to police what result they will accept?
Worst of all, they can't detect and know for sure if the run was artifacted. They are just guessing. The new game will be to get enough artifacts to beat everyone, but no too many to get invalidated. The upper limit will creep up with more and more artifacts accepted as the average increases.
It's silly. Rather than make it a game, just open it up to everyone completely, or fix your ability to detect it in the program you made.


It didn't seem to gain nearly as much on my 3090. I do recall getting some runs like that using the KP 1kw bios, but don't recall the score being significantly higher. It's a huge jump with the 4090. No way you can get close without it. And so then you need a "lucky run" to compete which is why I don't like it. The increase in score is obviously directly related to how much of the run artifacts too. So it really is a lucky run to get the best score.
ty_ger07
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 14:37:24 (permalink)
talon951
ty_ger07
Hot take: who is 3dmark to all-the-sudden decide what score is valid? People had artifacted runs all the time in the past. Something about this GPU makes the artifacted run score significantly better than artifacted runs in the past? So what? Let everyone compete with artifacts. What are they going to do with 20 years worth of old artifacted runs? Try to find them and flag them?
Seems silly. 3dmark doesn't make the video card or drivers. Why try to police what result they will accept?
Worst of all, they can't detect and know for sure if the run was artifacted. They are just guessing. The new game will be to get enough artifacts to beat everyone, but no too many to get invalidated. The upper limit will creep up with more and more artifacts accepted as the average increases.
It's silly. Rather than make it a game, just open it up to everyone completely, or fix your ability to detect it in the program you made.


It didn't seem to gain nearly as much on my 3090. I do recall getting some runs like that using the KP 1kw bios, but don't recall the score being significantly higher. It's a huge jump with the 4090. No way you can get close without it. And so then you need a "lucky run" to compete which is why I don't like it. The increase in score is obviously directly related to how much of the run artifacts too. So it really is a lucky run to get the best score.

Yeah, I get it, but they have no way to detect percentage of artifacting, so there will still be people with artifacts competing with people with artifacts. At least the playing field was wide open when they didn't decide what was good and what was bad based on no real evidence. Now, you are playing a game of staying under the radar and it becomes silly.

It used to be, if you finished the benchmark with valid settings, the score was valid. Now it is with the asterisk that they decide based on their best guess.

What they need to do is fix their benchmark if they don't like the results.

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/08 20:08:17 (permalink)
ty_ger07
What they need to do is fix their benchmark if they don't like the results.

True.
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/12 04:36:21 (permalink)
Some GTA 5 numbers with QuantV & Reshade...
 
Settings used:



 
In game picture:

 
Benchmark numbers:

 

 
 
 
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/14 11:42:50 (permalink)
Just got a reply back from a 3dmark employee stating they are looking at detecting the ecc setting, so everyone will be forced to run with ecc on. If ecc isn’t detected to be on your score will be invalid. 👍
zippytek
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/14 12:51:33 (permalink)
gonna be a LOT of missing scores soon. thanks to nvidia for shipping the launch driver with ECC off 
chrisdglong
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/14 18:04:01 (permalink)
Is your 13900K stock and are you on Windows 22h2? I get only about 19,000 for CPU score in Timespy on my 13900K. I'm guessing your cooling solution is better than mine though, I am just running mine with a Corsair h100i Elite LCD AIO.
 
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32491829
 
EDIT: Your CPU is running cooler and you have VBS turned off. I forgot to turn off VBS.
post edited by chrisdglong - 2022/11/14 18:08:38
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/14 20:09:23 (permalink)
Stock. CLC 280. Windows 10 2004.
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 06:35:48 (permalink)
Original crysis 1 patched to version 1.2 benchmarked at max settings...
 
==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 111.86s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 17.82s, Average FPS: 112.25
Min FPS: 98.62 at frame 222, Max FPS: 135.53 at frame 952
Average Tri/Sec: 24512910, Tri/Frame: 218382
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 4.20
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 16.69s, Average FPS: 119.86
Min FPS: 98.62 at frame 222, Max FPS: 135.53 at frame 952
Average Tri/Sec: 27494492, Tri/Frame: 229385
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 4.00
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 16.70s, Average FPS: 119.76
Min FPS: 98.62 at frame 222, Max FPS: 135.53 at frame 952
Average Tri/Sec: 27631526, Tri/Frame: 230727
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 3.97
!TimeDemo Run 3 Finished.
Play Time: 16.76s, Average FPS: 119.34
Min FPS: 98.62 at frame 222, Max FPS: 135.53 at frame 952
Average Tri/Sec: 27327956, Tri/Frame: 228990
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 4.00
TimeDemo Play Ended, (4 Runs Performed)
======================================================================================
 

808sting
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 06:44:40 (permalink)
Is this Remastered?  Waiting for the Trilogy bundle tomorrow.  

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 06:48:53 (permalink)
808sting
Is this Remastered?  Waiting for the Trilogy bundle tomorrow.  

No. It’s the original version which is cpu limited like crazy. Just shows how powerful the 13900k & 4090 combo really is. 😎
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 06:57:48 (permalink)
Sajin
808sting
Is this Remastered?  Waiting for the Trilogy bundle tomorrow.  

No. It’s the original version which is cpu limited like crazy. Just shows how powerful the 13900k & 4090 combo really is. 😎


You have a nice upgraded setup.  I'm undervolting my 12900KS and debating on the 13900.  When I render, all my cpu threads goes 100% with CUDA acceleration.  Room gets warm quickly.  Going to migrate my 3090ti down and get rid of my 3080ti & 3090.  What's really sad is how much I paid for the 3000 series cards.  It was EVGA list, but very overpriced.  Just like trying to recoup costs on a heavily modded car.

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 07:01:05 (permalink)
Definitely get the 13900 if you can. I don’t think I’ll be getting rid of my current setup for a long time. It really is just that good. 😎
808sting
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 07:09:29 (permalink)
I'll wait to see 13900KS pricing with a delid kit.  The 12th gen was better than the 10900K.  We'll see...  Get the Remastered bundle tomorrow and see what kind a hit it takes.

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/16 19:14:16 (permalink)
808sting
Get the Remastered bundle tomorrow and see what kind a hit it takes.

Looks like crysis remastered was already available on steam, so I bought it and ran some tests...
 

 

 
So better visuals, max fps & average fps, but lower min frames for the benchmark anyway. I tested with AA off as well, but the min frames did not improve, so it must be an issue with the benchmark only.
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/17 14:15:08 (permalink)
Sajin, thanks for testing.  I will buy the bundle when I get home.  Last time I played Crysis(1) was on my gtx 480 sli running surround 1440P displays.  It was playable with some stuttering.  Looking forward to the remastered trilogy on my 4080 when it comes in.

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Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/17 14:25:24 (permalink)
No problem. I’m actually playing through crysis 1 now myself. 😁
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/18 22:14:50 (permalink)
Sajin
chrisdglong
What are the temps on that 13900K?


69 on the package. 67c on the hottest pcore after 15 minutes of drawing 145w average on the package in cyberpunk.


Oh wow. Are these with the stock fans the clc came with?
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/18 22:15:58 (permalink)
SalamanderFire
Sajin
chrisdglong
What are the temps on that 13900K?


69 on the package. 67c on the hottest pcore after 15 minutes of drawing 145w average on the package in cyberpunk.


Oh wow. Are these with the stock fans the clc came with?

Yes.
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/19 01:17:17 (permalink)
Sajin
No problem. I’m actually playing through crysis 1 now myself. 😁

Crysis Remastered does have the better graphics and stability. 

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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/19 07:18:53 (permalink)
Sajin
SalamanderFire
Sajin
chrisdglong
What are the temps on that 13900K?


69 on the package. 67c on the hottest pcore after 15 minutes of drawing 145w average on the package in cyberpunk.


Oh wow. Are these with the stock fans the clc came with?

Yes.


are you running stock Voltage or a negative offset?
Sajin
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Re: EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 vs Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC. 2022/11/19 11:55:02 (permalink)
kraade
Sajin
SalamanderFire
Sajin
chrisdglong
What are the temps on that 13900K?


69 on the package. 67c on the hottest pcore after 15 minutes of drawing 145w average on the package in cyberpunk.


Oh wow. Are these with the stock fans the clc came with?

Yes.


are you running stock Voltage or a negative offset?

Stock voltage.
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