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Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version?

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BushTL56
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2018/01/28 14:33:34 (permalink)
Hello. I replaced my dual (SLI) EVGA Nvidia GeForce GTX 970s with a single EVGA 1080 Ti on December 31st and I am fully thrilled and amazed by the improved quality!  No problems whatsoever after a clean install of the Nvidia drivers on the original Windows 10 build.
 
Two weeks later I bought a new 512 GB M.2 SSD and installed Windows 10 from a DVD ISO on it.  Windows updated my older ISO build to the most current build and installed generic Nvidia 388.13 drivers in the process. Of course I immediately updated to the current (as of this posting) 390.65 drivers. My problem was that Windows kept rolling me back to the generic Nvidia 388.13 drivers, sometimes crashing in the middle of running Pinnacle Studio 20 (a graphics rendering-intense DVD/Blu-ray movie authoring application). It also crashed even after a clean installation of the 390.65 drivers. In desperation I went so far as removing all partitions on the SSD to install a freshly copied ISO of the current Windows build, while off network, and performing a clean install of 390.65 drivers I saved to a thumb drive. I did this to prevent Windows from searching for and installing the older drivers before placing the PC back on the network. This implementation actually has proven to be more stable, but it still is not a complete solution to the problem. At least for now Studio 20 hasn't crashed in the middle of rendering.
 
Now, Windows appears to keep rolling back to a generic version of 390.65 instead of generic 388.13. This happens every couple of reboots or so whereas before this partial solution, it would first rollback to generic Windows drivers, immediately followed by an "update" to a generic Nvidia 388.13 driver every time I turned the computer on.
 
This rollback occurs regardless of whether GeForce Experience is installed or not. Installing the most current BIOS and chipset drivers for the motherboard had no noticeable effect, either. This rollback also happens both when the primary drive is the only drive connected, or when any combination of internal SATA drives and external USB SSD drives are connected.
 
I understand that some applications (such as Cyberlink PowerDVD 17) suffer from a known SGX compatibility issue between Intel and Nvidia, but I don't think this issue is a related problem because driver rollback executes whether SGX is enabled/disabled in BIOS, or when SGX services are enabled/disabled in Windows. Right now I'm stymied and can't tell if this is a Windows problem or an Intel problem, partly because my personal experience with Nvidia has been on my last three AMD systems (9800 GT on XP and Win 7, GTX 960 on Win7 and Win 10). This is my first ever Intel system.
 
I've researched my "homework" online and tried many logical (and even some not so logical) potential solutions to no avail before turning to this forum. Steps to resolution of this recurring driver rollback issue or an explanation as to why this happens would be most appreciated!
 
My system: Windows 10 64-bit Home (10.0, build 16299); Asus TUF Z370 Pro Gaming ATX Intel Motherboard (LGA 1151 300 Series); Intel i7 8700 Coffee Lake 6-Core 3.2GHz CPU (LGA 1151 300 Series); EVGA Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 GPU; Corsair Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) RAM in dual-channel mode; dual WD Black 512GB M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe Performance SSDs (not configured for RAID); Freeze 120mm dual-fan liquid cooled CPU pump, Pioneer 4K UHD/M3 Rewritable Blu-ray Optical Drive, Seagate 2TB SATA3.0 Hybrid SSD/7200RPM HDD, WD Black 1TB SATA3.0 7200RPM HDD, Seagate 4TB Backup USB 3.0 SSD, Corsair mid-size gaming tower, 3 additional 120mm case cooling fans, and a Thermaltake 1,000W power supply. All connected to an Onkyo Dolby Atmos/DTS Neural:X 7.2.2 (yes, two subwoofers) home theater system with Bose surround sound speakers and Samsung 65" 8000 series 4K UHD TV for the best audio-visual experience ever!
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    arestavo
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/28 15:18:07 (permalink)
    Have you tried using DDU in safe mode to clean the drivers out? It sets a Windows registry setting to have Windows not download drivers via Windows update. That is until Microsoft pushes an update that resets that registry setting (yay Microsoft! >_< )
     
    https://www.wagnardsoft.com/
     
    And for the record, it's not a rollback (not really) if the driver version is higher than what you are using. It's an update, which DDU can help prevent.
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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/28 18:00:18 (permalink)
    No, the first time this happened was definitely a failed rollback from 390.65 (release date 01/08/2018) to 388.13 (10/30/2017).  The Nvidia Control Panel shortcut was also missing from dialog boxes and the Control Panel applet was present but inoperative.
     
    It happened again after I did a fresh install of Windows off-network and installed a clean copy of 390.65, except 388.13 was never present on the system for Windows to revert back to and the only Nvidia driver on the system (390.65) was not reinstalled correctly by Windows' failed attempt at update.
     
    I ran the DDU.  Interesting tool, I must say.  Sure saves a lot of time doing all of this manually.  I especially appreciate the registry key idea of Windows not automatically downloading driver updates until the next Windows update that resets the value to default.
     
    My computer is back on the network with a clean copy of 390.65 again.  We'll see how long before Windows jacks it up again.
     
    Thank you.
     
    #3
    torch327
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/28 18:05:15 (permalink)
    With the headaches that both gamers and Devs are having right now, I'm hoping more games start getting coded for Linux. Seems like MS is screwing the pooch more than ever right now.

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    mleung000
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/28 18:08:38 (permalink)
    Thanks for sharing
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/28 18:30:39 (permalink)

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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/29 17:09:02 (permalink)
    And MS screwed the pooch again, it looks like. MS A) failed to "update" the Nvidia drivers which are already current, and B) failed to correctly reinstall the Nvidia "rollback" drivers leaving me with a damaged system again.  Maybe I should have stuck with AMD instead of venturing forth with Intel?  I guess I couldn't resist the big shiny button.  I am still amazed at how fast the system renders a 60-minute DVD compared to my not-so-older system, and I'm not even overclocking the GPU yet!
     
    @ Cool GTX:  Thanks for the links, but (except for the first one for beginners) I've already tried them to no avail before contacting this forum.
    #7
    AHowes
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/29 17:29:08 (permalink)
    Sounds like it ain't gona matter what you do cause windows update is already continuing to attempt to update the drivers as it's already marked for download.

    Seems like the only fix is to reinstall Windows.. don't plug in the internet till you make the proper changes to windows updates.. install the correct card drivers then connect the network. :/

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    Heini2
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/29 17:55:20 (permalink)
    Or........... You seem to be savey enough to learn to turn Win update off and toggle on when you want It. Keep a file of the drivers you like and if Win Update gives you some you don't like !) turn update off. 2)use DDU to remove their drivers, 3) install your prefered drivers. Be prepared to repeat because MicroCrap can be relentless so we should be prepared to be so also!

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    bob16314
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/29 18:13:40 (permalink)
    How I prevent Windows 10 from downloading and installing updates (graphics drivers, or otherwise) is to go to the Properties of my internet connection and turn on 'Set as metered connection' which prevents auto-downloading in the first place..Then I always run the Show or Hide Updates tool periodically (every couple days or whatever) to check for updates instead of running the normal Windows Update in Update & Security, and then hide the updates I don't want..As long as metered connection is turned on, it puts the whammy on updates..Simple.
     
    You can run the normal Windows Update with metered connection on, but it will show all the available updates awaiting download/install unless the PC is restarted to reset Windows Update so that you can then run the Show or Hide Updates tool to selectively choose what to hide.

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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/29 20:56:41 (permalink)
    Well, I was loath to do it because I like to watch a lot of Netflix on the weekends, but I enabled my Ethernet connection to be metered.   I will try this for a while to see if it meets my expectations.  If not, I can always reverse it and try something else until MS gets their crap together and stops dictating what is best for me whether I like it or not.
     
    Worst case scenario, I remove all drives except the boot M.2 drive and reinstall Windows after resetting all partitions to unallocated space.  Takes only 23 minutes to install Windows 10 on this new system, but takes about six hours or so to reinstall all my favorite applications and set all my preferences up again.  This time I'll follow AHowes advice and keep my system offline until I have everything set up and Microsoft-proofed as much as possible.  (Rapid system restore from a fresh Windows OS install is why I keep copious notes about my system, settings, and registry tweaks  And I don't keep data or anything that isn't system-related on the boot OS drive that can be stored elsewhere.)
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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/30 17:17:14 (permalink)
    And guess what didn't work.  You guessed it:  Metered connection.  This weekend I'm going to copy all the current drivers, downloads, software, etc., onto an external USB drive.  Then I'm pulling all the hard drives and remove partitions off the primary drive.  Then I'm going to install Windows, chipset drivers, and Nvidia only, all offline.  Let that stew for a bit to see if it sticks.  Then I'll do everything I can to prevent MS updates from happening before I put this online again.  If nothing happens, I'll put my software back on one app at a time and let them stew in between.
     
    Can somebody say frustrated?  Sure, I knew you could!
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    spitfire5792
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/31 06:38:19 (permalink)
    I believe you cannot fully turn off windows updates on windows 10.

     

     

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/31 08:47:30 (permalink)
    BushTL56
    And guess what didn't work.  You guessed it:  Metered connection.  This weekend I'm going to copy all the current drivers, downloads, software, etc., onto an external USB drive.  Then I'm pulling all the hard drives and remove partitions off the primary drive.  Then I'm going to install Windows, chipset drivers, and Nvidia only, all offline.  Let that stew for a bit to see if it sticks.  Then I'll do everything I can to prevent MS updates from happening before I put this online again.  If nothing happens, I'll put my software back on one app at a time and let them stew in between.
     
    Can somebody say frustrated?  Sure, I knew you could!


    I'm not sure why this happens.  I've installed and reinstalled drivers on... for well...longer than some folks here have had chest hair....and I've never had Windows roll back or try to install a different driver.  There are ways to remove all but the base WDDM driver and do a completely clean install that cannot roll back because an earlier driver version doesn't exist on the system. But I'm sure it's changed some since Vista. Of course a clean install of Windows accomplishes the same thing.

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    Auriga88
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/31 11:25:09 (permalink)
    I had this issue and decided to do everything possible through both setting metered connections and tweaking the registry to neuter Windows 10's auto updates. Just part of Windows 10's irritating "I know your machine better than you" attitude.
    #15
    Sajin
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/01/31 14:06:05 (permalink)
    spitfire5792
    I believe you cannot fully turn off windows updates on windows 10.


    Yep, that's why I'm still on version 14393.693. 
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    bob16314
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/01 12:36:30 (permalink)
    How it works here.

    I have one HDD with Win10 1607 on it just for kicks and also two in RAID array 0 with Win10 1709 on them..Windows Update absolutely, positively and unequivocally will not download/install any updates or upgrades to a newer version/build with metered connection on unless specifically told to do so by me clicking 'Download" when prompted after searching for updates.
     
    I can selectively show or hide any and all updates/upgrades, either individually or en masse, using the Show or Hide Updates tool.
     
    I can totally shut off Windows Update by stopping and then disabling Windows Upate in Windows Services (services.msc) so that Windows Update doesn't even work at all.
     
    As an 'advanced user' (pretty sure, lol) I have no problems telling Win10 what or what not I want it to do.

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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/05 18:02:22 (permalink)
    Well, as much as I was tempted, I didn't reinstall Windows over the weekend.  I observed that Nvidia drivers reinstall after the generic MS driver is forced back onto the system, but the Nvidia reinstall isn't complete.  The Nvidia Adjust resolution settings and Adjust desktop color settings remain, but the Adjust video color settings revert back to "With video player settings" and the control panel doesn't reinstall to change the settings.  I did the tests while offline so the computer couldn't reach out to the Internet for updates.  Sometimes deleting a "ghost" or hidden install through Device Manager was the wrong one and I had to reinstall from my offline installation app, but I think the system is reasonably stable now.  I can live with it recycling through about every third or fourth reboot for now, and not in the middle of a GPU intense event.
     
    Thanks for all the tips, folks.  I've certainly tried every idea provided that I haven't already found through research, except reinstalling version (14-whatever)  that I first started out with in December and turning updates off like bob16314 suggested.
     
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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/14 22:37:04 (permalink)
    Update:  Drivers keep recycling every three or four restarts, but otherwise appear to be more stable than when this mess first started.  With all your help I've learned to uninstall the hidden drivers from Device Manager during the recycle phase, which forces the system to become stable again a little quicker.  Side note - Installed the latest Nvidia drivers yesterday and caught a Windows update today.  With the new updates and a fresh install of the SGX package through Cyberlink, everything passes the Cyberlink UHD Blu-ray Advisor test with the Nvidia 1080 Ti except for Advanced Protected Audio/Video Path (GPU), which registers as "unavailable."  4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disks failed to play at all before the most recent updates.  They now play on my system with Cyberlink PowerDVD 17 even though APAV doesn't pass, but that's OK with me.
     
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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 13:55:13 (permalink)
    bob16314
    How it works here.

    I have one HDD with Win10 1607 on it just for kicks and also two in RAID array 0 with Win10 1709 on them..Windows Update absolutely, positively and unequivocally will not download/install any updates or upgrades to a newer version/build with metered connection on unless specifically told to do so by me clicking 'Download" when prompted after searching for updates.
     
    I can selectively show or hide any and all updates/upgrades, either individually or en masse, using the Show or Hide Updates tool.
     
    I can totally shut off Windows Update by stopping and then disabling Windows Upate in Windows Services (services.msc) so that Windows Update doesn't even work at all.
     
    As an 'advanced user' (pretty sure, lol) I have no problems telling Win10 what or what not I want it to do.




    I'm not sure how that helps with his issue but, congrats on the award.

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 14:56:16 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    bob16314
    How it works here.

    I have one HDD with Win10 1607 on it just for kicks and also two in RAID array 0 with Win10 1709 on them..Windows Update absolutely, positively and unequivocally will not download/install any updates or upgrades to a newer version/build with metered connection on unless specifically told to do so by me clicking 'Download" when prompted after searching for updates.
     
    I can selectively show or hide any and all updates/upgrades, either individually or en masse, using the Show or Hide Updates tool.
     
    I can totally shut off Windows Update by stopping and then disabling Windows Upate in Windows Services (services.msc) so that Windows Update doesn't even work at all.
     
    As an 'advanced user' (pretty sure, lol) I have no problems telling Win10 what or what not I want it to do.




    I'm not sure how that helps with his issue but, congrats on the award.




    It would be because it mentions how Windows allows you to hide updates in the latest builds of Windows 10. It's a very nice feature for fixing this kind of issue.

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    #21
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 15:45:51 (permalink)
    Hoggle
    HeavyHemi
    bob16314
    How it works here.

    I have one HDD with Win10 1607 on it just for kicks and also two in RAID array 0 with Win10 1709 on them..Windows Update absolutely, positively and unequivocally will not download/install any updates or upgrades to a newer version/build with metered connection on unless specifically told to do so by me clicking 'Download" when prompted after searching for updates.
     
    I can selectively show or hide any and all updates/upgrades, either individually or en masse, using the Show or Hide Updates tool.
     
    I can totally shut off Windows Update by stopping and then disabling Windows Upate in Windows Services (services.msc) so that Windows Update doesn't even work at all.
     
    As an 'advanced user' (pretty sure, lol) I have no problems telling Win10 what or what not I want it to do.




    I'm not sure how that helps with his issue but, congrats on the award.




    It would be because it mentions how Windows allows you to hide updates in the latest builds of Windows 10. It's a very nice feature for fixing this kind of issue.


    The OP has more serious issues that simply hiding updates. He has something fundamentally broken as that is not normal for any system. Telling us your (not you but the collective you) advanced user system isn't having issues doesn't rectify whatever his base issue is. Sorry that's just a pet peeve of mine. Lately I've seen far to many BR's given out to the same group for basically C&P repeats while other folks who spend a lot of time researching get squat.   Maybe it's not my place note that....but you'd get better participation IMO if they 'spread the wealth around' like it used to be. BTW this isn't directed at those who get them but obviously those awarding them.
     
    *rant off.
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2018/02/15 16:21:57

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    #22
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 15:59:58 (permalink)
    Wow! Just a little upset?

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    BushTL56
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:23:05 (permalink)
    Thanks for the support, HeviHemi  I am open to all suggestions that make sense.  Food for thought:  Back in the day I was told to allow software to install to its default or preferred location.  Makes it easier for cleaner uninstall and less technical issues.
     
    I noticed that my secondary M.2 drive has a system file partition on it, but the primary M.2 drive that holds the OS doesn't.  I'm wondering if some system files are being directed there, causing the yo-yo effect with the video drivers when they are "missing" from the primary OS drive.
     
    I'm tearing my system part way down this weekend to replace all five 3-pin 3-speed case fans with blue LED, 4-pin PMW fans.  I'm also thinking about taking out the secondary M.2 drive and disconnecting all other drives while I'm at it, except the primary optical.  Pull the Nvidia card, and use the Intel iGPU on the motherboard to install a fresh copy of Windows, wiping the partitions off the primary M.2 drive as part of the fresh install.  Install the chipset drivers, get everything stable with current security updates and patches, then use DDU to remove the Intel video drivers.  Take the system off network, install the Nvidia card with current drivers and see if I continue to have issues before putting the system back online and installing my apps.  A lot of work, and two trips on the work bench for component installation, but I've got a 3-day weekend and love tinkering with computers as a hobby anyway.  Should be fun.
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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:24:03 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    Wow! Just a little upset?




    Not particularly and I explained my reasoning... did you need a PM or something?

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:25:16 (permalink)
    That is why I recommend when you install Windows 10 to have only the Drive you are going to Install the OS onto and then add the rest of the Drives after the OS is Installed AND updated.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:34:47 (permalink)
    BushTL56
    Thanks for the support, HeviHemi  I am open to all suggestions that make sense.  Food for thought:  Back in the day I was told to allow software to install to its default or preferred location.  Makes it easier for cleaner uninstall and less technical issues.
     
    I noticed that my secondary M.2 drive has a system file partition on it, but the primary M.2 drive that holds the OS doesn't.  I'm wondering if some system files are being directed there, causing the yo-yo effect with the video drivers when they are "missing" from the primary OS drive.
     
    I'm tearing my system part way down this weekend to replace all five 3-pin 3-speed case fans with blue LED, 4-pin PMW fans.  I'm also thinking about taking out the secondary M.2 drive and disconnecting all other drives while I'm at it, except the primary optical.  Pull the Nvidia card, and use the Intel iGPU on the motherboard to install a fresh copy of Windows, wiping the partitions off the primary M.2 drive as part of the fresh install.  Install the chipset drivers, get everything stable with current security updates and patches, then use DDU to remove the Intel video drivers.  Take the system off network, install the Nvidia card with current drivers and see if I continue to have issues before putting the system back online and installing my apps.  A lot of work, and two trips on the work bench for component installation, but I've got a 3-day weekend and love tinkering with computers as a hobby anyway.  Should be fun.


    That could be. Having your system partition on a drive other than the OS....could you put up  snip of your Disk Management window?
     
     

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    AHowes
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:37:28 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    That is why I recommend when you install Windows 10 to have only the Drive you are going to Install the OS onto and then add the rest of the Drives after the OS is Installed AND updated.


    Man I thought I was wierd and paranoid when I always have all other hard drives disconnected durring a windows install.

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:38:31 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    bcavnaugh
    Wow! Just a little upset?




    Not particularly and I explained my reasoning... did you need a PM or something?


    No, You never replied.
    Just seeing between the lines in your Posts now.

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    #29
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:39:34 (permalink)
    AHowes
    bcavnaugh
    That is why I recommend when you install Windows 10 to have only the Drive you are going to Install the OS onto and then add the rest of the Drives after the OS is Installed AND updated.


    Man I thought I was wierd and paranoid when I always have all other hard drives disconnected durring a windows install.

    Has noting to do with being paranoid.

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