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Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version?

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AHowes
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:39:52 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
BushTL56
Thanks for the support, HeviHemi  I am open to all suggestions that make sense.  Food for thought:  Back in the day I was told to allow software to install to its default or preferred location.  Makes it easier for cleaner uninstall and less technical issues.
 
I noticed that my secondary M.2 drive has a system file partition on it, but the primary M.2 drive that holds the OS doesn't.  I'm wondering if some system files are being directed there, causing the yo-yo effect with the video drivers when they are "missing" from the primary OS drive.
 
I'm tearing my system part way down this weekend to replace all five 3-pin 3-speed case fans with blue LED, 4-pin PMW fans.  I'm also thinking about taking out the secondary M.2 drive and disconnecting all other drives while I'm at it, except the primary optical.  Pull the Nvidia card, and use the Intel iGPU on the motherboard to install a fresh copy of Windows, wiping the partitions off the primary M.2 drive as part of the fresh install.  Install the chipset drivers, get everything stable with current security updates and patches, then use DDU to remove the Intel video drivers.  Take the system off network, install the Nvidia card with current drivers and see if I continue to have issues before putting the system back online and installing my apps.  A lot of work, and two trips on the work bench for component installation, but I've got a 3-day weekend and love tinkering with computers as a hobby anyway.  Should be fun.


That could be. Having your system partition on a drive other than the OS....could you put up  snip of your Disk Management window?
 
 


All looks normal to me.

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bcavnaugh
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:42:39 (permalink)
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2018/02/15 16:48:24

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HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:48:11 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
HeavyHemi
bcavnaugh
Wow! Just a little upset?




Not particularly and I explained my reasoning... did you need a PM or something?


No, You never replied.
Just seeing between the lines in your Posts now.


You can stop that right now. I don't put up with it.

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#33
bcavnaugh
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:49:23 (permalink)
Not sure what you are talking about, I thought you were asking me?

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HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:50:26 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)




No idea what you're complaining about as...I have zero issues and quite stellar performance.  I've a separate recovery drive not attached to the system... Thanks for asking.

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AHowes
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:52:39 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)


I don't see anything other then one partition set as a boot partition.. primary partition don't mean boot partition if that's what your thinking.


Forget it.. I'm lost.. too many people messaging and I'm getting people mixed up. Thought the hard drive management pic was from the original poster
post edited by AHowes - 2018/02/15 16:55:24

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#36
HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 16:58:28 (permalink)
AHowes
bcavnaugh
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)


I don't see anything other then one partition set as a boot partition.. primary partition don't mean boot partition if that's what your thinking.


Forget it.. I'm lost.. too many people messaging and I'm getting people mixed up. Thought the hard drive management pic was from the original poster



No you're fine. I don't know what he's talking about. I just put up an example of a  snapshot for the OP

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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 17:01:08 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
AHowes
bcavnaugh Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.   (Noting to do with being paranoid)

I don't see anything other then one partition set as a boot partition.. primary partition don't mean boot partition if that's what your thinking.
Forget it.. I'm lost.. too many people messaging and I'm getting people mixed up. Thought the hard drive management pic was from the original poster

No you're fine. I don't know what he's talking about. I just put up an example of a  snapshot for the OP

 
Yes the OP is Fine All I said was "Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice."
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2018/02/15 17:03:22

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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 17:02:44 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
bcavnaugh
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)




No idea what you're complaining about as...I have zero issues and quite stellar performance.  I've a separate recovery drive not attached to the system... Thanks for asking.


I am not complaining about anything, it was only a comment about Drive Management nothing more.

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HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 17:03:55 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Yes the OP is Fine All I said was "Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice."




Which isn't the case for the image I posted. Only one drive is set up that way, you know, the boot drive.  We don't know if the OP is fine thus my asking for him to post a snip of his. Are we all on the same page now?
bcavnaugh
HeavyHemi
bcavnaugh
Having all your Dives setup as Primary Boot Partition is also not a good idea or a good best practice.
 
(Noting to do with being paranoid)




No idea what you're complaining about as...I have zero issues and quite stellar performance.  I've a separate recovery drive not attached to the system... Thanks for asking.


I am not complaining about anything, it was only a comment about Drive Management nothing more.




Which was wrong and did not reflect what the image showed. Lets move on shall we?

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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 17:04:44 (permalink)
Yes I guess.

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BushTL56
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 20:43:57 (permalink)
A couple years back I installed Windows 7 Pro 64-bit edition on a PC and forgot to disconnect my data drive before imaging the OS drive.  Needless to say, the data drive somehow got repartitioned and I lost all my data.  I would hope that I'm smart enough to know the difference between drive 0 and drive 1 when choosing a drive to image.  So yeah, I'm a little paranoid after that.  I had no data to lose on the new-out-of-the-box secondary M.2 and that's the only reason why I left it there when I imaged the primary M.2.  I certainly didn't expect the system partition to wind up on any drive other than the primary OS drive, but anything Microsoft forces on me because they know better than I do doesn't surprise me in the least.  (Ever try to create a Microsoft Word document and not have it cram fonts, formats, and styles that don't conform to established modern technical or editorial styles down your throat?)
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 21:36:22 (permalink)
You can see Windows split the image between Disks 2 and 3, placing the system on 2 and OS on 3.  Never saw that happen before this install.

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HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/15 21:46:02 (permalink)
BushTL56
You can see Windows split the image between Disks 2 and 3, placing the system on 2 and OS on 3.  Never saw that happen before this install.




I've only seen that one other time and I did it to myself. I forgot to format the former system drive when I upgraded to an SSD and left it in the system. These quirks almost never happen if none of the other drives has ever been an OS drive. A full format when you retire a system drive to other uses is always a good idea. But the most fool proof is of course installing with just the single system drive.

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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 04:45:26 (permalink)
Well, I did it.  I broke my system down, replaced the fans, and stripped it down to the primary M.2 drive and optical BD-RE drive.  Removed the partitions off the M.2 and reinstalled a fresh copy of Windows 10 Home.  Found the Nvidia drivers won't load properly unless Win 10 was validated.  Disabled Windows update and validated the copy.  The video drivers still yo-yo back and forth.  Go figure!  Placing the system partition and OS on the same drive had no effect.  I gave up after ensuring all component drivers were up-to-date and went ahead and reconnected all the other drives and loaded all the applications I use.
 
I was working with trying to get a single program to bypass UAC when I ran across some Nvidia triggers in the task scheduler.  I'm wondering if one of these profile updates is what is causing my video driver yo-yo effect of installing/uninstalling/reinstalling every few reboots.  Any takers for suggestions?
 
 
post edited by BushTL56 - 2018/02/18 05:05:00

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AHowes
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 07:44:22 (permalink)
No idea.. I dont have this issue between my 2 systems using the last version of win10 and im not using the latest drivers.

It's like ms has an endless loop of updates stored off site for your pc that's broken durring install and keep trying to send it to you.

Did you make a Microsoft account and are logged in with them?

I know that's the new trend as ms don't use win10 keys anymore after the free update from win7-8 to 10. You log on to the Microsoft account and it links your win10 to your account.

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#46
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 08:08:41 (permalink)
BushTL56
Well, I did it.  I broke my system down, replaced the fans, and stripped it down to the primary M.2 drive and optical BD-RE drive.  Removed the partitions off the M.2 and reinstalled a fresh copy of Windows 10 Home.  Found the Nvidia drivers won't load properly unless Win 10 was validated.  Disabled Windows update and validated the copy.  The video drivers still yo-yo back and forth.  Go figure!  Placing the system partition and OS on the same drive had no effect.  I gave up after ensuring all component drivers were up-to-date and went ahead and reconnected all the other drives and loaded all the applications I use.
 
I was working with trying to get a single program to bypass UAC when I ran across some Nvidia triggers in the task scheduler.  I'm wondering if one of these profile updates is what is causing my video driver yo-yo effect of installing/uninstalling/reinstalling every few reboots.  Any takers for suggestions?
 
 


Not sure if it will make a difference in your case, but everytime I install a new graphics driver, I disable all 5 of those items in the task scheduler.  I also go to services.msc and disable the Nvidia Telemetry.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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BushTL56
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 10:39:55 (permalink)
@AHowes:  No, I don't use a Windows account to login, but I can test your idea with my Hotmail account temporarily to see if that's a potential fix.  I say temporarily because I like my privacy and disable everything possible that wants to tap my system, to include file and resource sharing to other computers on my own household network.
@bdary: Anything is worth trying at this point.  I'll try this first because it will be easier to re-enable (or just delete since I don't use GeForce anyway).
 
Thanks.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 10:45:09 (permalink)
BushTL56
Well, I did it.  I broke my system down, replaced the fans, and stripped it down to the primary M.2 drive and optical BD-RE drive.  Removed the partitions off the M.2 and reinstalled a fresh copy of Windows 10 Home.  Found the Nvidia drivers won't load properly unless Win 10 was validated.  Disabled Windows update and validated the copy.  The video drivers still yo-yo back and forth.  Go figure!  Placing the system partition and OS on the same drive had no effect.  I gave up after ensuring all component drivers were up-to-date and went ahead and reconnected all the other drives and loaded all the applications I use.
 
I was working with trying to get a single program to bypass UAC when I ran across some Nvidia triggers in the task scheduler.  I'm wondering if one of these profile updates is what is causing my video driver yo-yo effect of installing/uninstalling/reinstalling every few reboots.  Any takers for suggestions?
 
 


I'm not sure what you're doing here as all I have ever had to do with literally dozens of installs is (yeah I know old school) pop in the DVD ISO, install Window 10, it activates automatically based on the hardware hash. From there I just install drivers etc...no hoops to jump through. What are you doing, that is different from a standard install?

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BushTL56
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/18 18:17:09 (permalink)
Tentatively, it looks like bdary's solution may have worked, about disabling the Nvidia profile update triggers in Task Manager and NVidia telemetry in Services.  I will have to try several more reboots to make sure, but so far, so good.  Today has been a good day because Today We Have Been Stable all Day Long!
 
My question, is what repercussions, if any,  do I need to be aware of by disabling these services?  I don't mind doing a manual search/update for any new drivers periodically.
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/19 05:26:31 (permalink)
My exuberance was short-lived.  Had to reboot 4 times this morning to get the drivers to settle.  All 5 Nvidia tasks in Task Scheduler are still disabled, and Nvidia Telemetry in Services is still disabled.  No more mid-logon session changes.  Side note:  The newest Nvidia drivers for the 1080 Ti work with SGX, so 4K UHD BDs now play on my system with Cyberlink PowerDVD 17.
 
And @HeviHemi, I'm not doing anything "weird."  I've built a few PCs over the years, ever since old-style DOS 3.5 (pre-Windows 3.1x), so I think I've experienced a few system quirks.  Ever work with a Hercules adapter (video adapter that renders graphics, such as those used in games) on a 20 MHz 286 PC?  Best to leave things at default and change parameters one at a time until the solution presents itself unless a proven knowledge base is available to speed things up.   I don't think there is a proven knowledge base for this system, in which case I will be sure to post whatever worked to fix this problem so others will have some ideas to try if they run across a similar situation.
 
I guess we try bdary's Windows account logon concept next.  Certainly can't hurt at this juncture.
 
This particular system is kicking my ass.  I'm seriously thinking about buying a new motherboard (upgrade) and try again with all my parts.
 
Wish me luck!
#51
AHowes
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/19 05:35:11 (permalink)
BushTL56
My exuberance was short-lived.  Had to reboot 4 times this morning to get the drivers to settle.  All 5 Nvidia tasks in Task Scheduler are still disabled, and Nvidia Telemetry in Services is still disabled.  No more mid-logon session changes.  Side note:  The newest Nvidia drivers for the 1080 Ti work with SGX, so 4K UHD BDs now play on my system with Cyberlink PowerDVD 17.
 
And @HeviHemi, I'm not doing anything "weird."  I've built a few PCs over the years, ever since old-style DOS 3.5 (pre-Windows 3.1x), so I think I've experienced a few system quirks.  Ever work with a Hercules adapter (video adapter that renders graphics, such as those used in games) on a 20 MHz 286 PC?  Best to leave things at default and change parameters one at a time until the solution presents itself unless a proven knowledge base is available to speed things up.   I don't think there is a proven knowledge base for this system, in which case I will be sure to post whatever worked to fix this problem so others will have some ideas to try if they run across a similar situation.
 
I guess we try bdary's Windows account logon concept next.  Certainly can't hurt at this juncture.
 
This particular system is kicking my ass.  I'm seriously thinking about buying a new motherboard (upgrade) and try again with all my parts.
 
Wish me luck!


Bless you man.. I would of bought a whole new system long ago! Haha

Have you reached out to Microsoft over this issue since it's there stupid software?

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BushTL56
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/02/19 11:18:09 (permalink)
Well, the Windows account logon did nothing for me except expose my real name.  I once spent 3 hours online with Microsoft's O365 Skype for Business team.  Went nowhere really slow and didn't get favorable results at the end.  Don't want to relive that experience again.
 
It's official.  I'm buying a new, upgraded motherboard next payday.
 
For now I'll start up my PC, scan for hardware changes to reload the current NVidia drivers already loaded into the System32 .inf library, remove hidden "ghost" drivers in Device Manager, then reboot again for the drivers to take effect.  Pain in the butt, but it works.
 
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post edited by BushTL56 - 2018/02/19 11:30:39
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BushTL56
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/03/14 13:00:06 (permalink)
Well, I'm too cheap to discard a new motherboard and decided to troubleshoot this anomaly further.
 
It all started when I installed the PCIEx16 M.2 SSD NVME drive.  I believe the drive is way too fast, especially coupled with an Intel i7-8700 CPU and a plentitude of fast DDR4 RAM.  Therefore, it’s possible for the system to simultaneously load drivers so fast that smaller drivers finish loading before larger drivers that start to load earlier in the boot sequence do.
 
This observation would theorize that some drivers will not function properly when dependent on other drivers to load first.  It appears that on every cold boot the NVidia drivers on this particular system are loading before the Intel SGX and Management Engine Software applications load first, possibly rejecting or corrupting the NVidia drivers as a result.  (See Screenshot 1.)  Subsequent warm reboots would hit-and-miss as to which drivers loaded first, until the correct load sequence occurred.  (See Screenshot 2).  (The missing APAV is of no concern on this 1080 Ti.)
 
To help deter this from happening I opened Services and forced the Intel SGX AESM and Intel Management and Security Application software services to automatically start immediately and without the default Automatic (Delayed Start) setting.  I've also opened the advanced settings in System Configuration (msconfig) and ensured the number of CPUs accessed during boot is set to the default value of 1.  (Another gaming blog recommended to change the default value to the maximum number of cores available, 12 in this case, for fastest boot times).  The default value of 1 will force only one core to do all the work on boot up and help eliminate simultaneous driver loading, preventing unwanted circumvention of driver dependency on another driver to load first.
 
After 13 cold boots before posting these results, I’ve experienced only one instance where this “fix” didn’t work and required another restart.
 
Thank you all for your tips and tricks.  They certainly pointed me on the path to resolving this puzzle as well as educating me further in the worlds of "Micro-cough" and Intel.

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travsmitty
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Re: Why do Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Drivers in Win 10 Keep Rolling Back to Older Version 2018/03/14 19:07:36 (permalink)
Mine is running great.
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