rosuto
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 08:06:44
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lol Tom thinks the GTX285 and GTX295 are the best for their money? I think Tom needs to be committed to a lunatic asylum 
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airddragon
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 09:04:22
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luv2increase
lol
Tom thinks the GTX285 and GTX295 are the best for their money?
I think Tom needs to be committed to a lunatic asylum
Seriously? Why is it trolls always seem to have that old problem of only hearing what they want to hear and seeing what they want to hear? First point out the spot in the article it says the GTX285 is best for its money. Because 2 reads through I saw nothing of the like. Why reading through the article I get the impression that I should buy a 4870, course I could be reading to deep into: This is the sweet spot, folks. If someone told us the Radeon HD 4870 would be marked down to $125 four months ago, we'd have laughed in their face. Well, who is laughing now? Gamers are, with this very powerful card and its fast GDDR5 memory available at bargain-basement prices. Secondly, to quote the Tom's article on the GTX 295: To get more performance than what Nvidia's GeForce GTX 295 brings to the table, you'd have to look at more expensive solutions costing over $500, say a couple of Radeon HD 5850s in CrossFire. But unless you have a 30" monitor, that would be a gratuitous waste of cash considering the small performance gains you'd get for spending a whole lot more money. So yeah..... anyways..... On topic a bit more, I love the way I can refer non-enthusiats to this list and the can actually walk away semi-informed when they go out and try to buy their video cards. Hurrah!
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drivingon9
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 09:17:52
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luv2increase
lol
Tom thinks the GTX285 and GTX295 are the best for their money?
I think Tom needs to be committed to a lunatic asylum
I think you need to be committed to a reading comprehension asylum.
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 09:58:06
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You two are seemingly devoid of the proper analytical skills required to see through such an article and correlate it successfully with the market how it is right now. First off, the GTX295 is >$500. Secondly, how in the world is the GTX285 the best bet for the money when it costs nearly $400??? When the two aforementioned current top-dogs will be obsolete in a matter of a few months, it makes it even more fallacious to believe they are good deals. The GTX260 is right up there on par with the GTX285 in performance, and it costs less than $200!!!! This chap is telling the consumer that the GTX285 is really gives "TWICE" the performance of the GTX260? What planet is he from? You could buy two GTX260 Core 216s for "LESS THAN" a GTX285, and they would literally blow the GTX285 away in performance. There would be no comparison. The word that comes to my mind is ----> RIP-OFF If any of you can counter that in a civil and analytical manner, I'm all ears. You must learn to " THINK FOR YOURSELF". If you let everyone else do the thinking for you in life, you won't get anywhere. School systems today rely too much on "Group Think". It is terrible. EDIT: Come to think of it, it is a horrible horrible thing to recommend anyone in the world to purchase a DX10 card right now. It doesn't make any sense at all. Zilch. Nada. Zero. If you do, you are being taken and don't even realize it. And to think that they haven't lowered the prices on top of the aforementioned facts really ticks me off. I care about consumers and people in general and hate to see them get "scammed"...
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/05 10:07:10
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drivingon9
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 10:17:10
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I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I'm reading the wrong article, but looking at the article posted by the OP, I don't see anywhere where it says: 1) "the GTX285 [is] the best bet for the money" 2) "this chap is telling the consumer that the GTX285 is really gives "TWICE" the performance of the GTX260?" The chart is a simple performance ladder that is completely relative, and the instructions to use the chart state "You can use this hierarchy to compare the pricing between two cards, to see which one is a better deal" As for your comment "it is a horrible horrible thing to recommend anyone in the world to purchase a DX10 card right now" : Oh, so you now know what everybody's needs are for a graphics card?? There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now than to waste money on your 3x5870's at a practical standpoint.
post edited by drivingon9 - 2009/11/05 10:18:39
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 10:48:52
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drivingon9
As for your comment "it is a horrible horrible thing to recommend anyone in the world to purchase a DX10 card right now" : Oh, so you now know what everybody's needs are for a graphics card?? There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now than to waste money on your 3x5870's at a practical standpoint.
The smart thing to do "if" you have the funds is to "future proof" your system. If you know what you are doing and what to buy, it is possible. Sure, 3 x 5870s will run everything out right now on their highest settings imaginable @ 1920x1080, but I am focusing on the games of TOMORROW my friend. Give me a reason why anyone would spend $400 on a GTX285 or $500 on a GTX295 right now... There are no reasons. That is a fact. I'm really waiting for your explanations. You said: drivingon9
There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now
Let us hear them shall we...  edit: This may be a pointless debate because as it stands from your posts thus far in this thread, it is more than apparent you do not understand any of this. Your statements are those of an uninformed member. Granted, I love helping people out, but those who are rude and ignorantly so deserve to find out the hard way. This hard way would be to waste $400-$500 on something that will be $200 in a few months while cards from Nvidia at the same price of $400-$500 will be "2 Times" better than those that you paid for a few months prior. Common sense is a virtue too I do believe.
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/05 10:56:17
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drivingon9
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 11:19:36
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luv2increase
drivingon9
As for your comment "it is a horrible horrible thing to recommend anyone in the world to purchase a DX10 card right now" : Oh, so you now know what everybody's needs are for a graphics card?? There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now than to waste money on your 3x5870's at a practical standpoint.
The smart thing to do "if" you have the funds is to "future proof" your system. If you know what you are doing and what to buy, it is possible. Sure, 3 x 5870s will run everything out right now on their highest settings imaginable @ 1920x1080, but I am focusing on the games of TOMORROW my friend.
Give me a reason why anyone would spend $400 on a GTX285 or $500 on a GTX295 right now... There are no reasons. That is a fact. I'm really waiting for your explanations.
You said:
drivingon9
There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now
Let us hear them shall we...
edit: This may be a pointless debate because as it stands from your posts thus far in this thread, it is more than apparent you do not understand any of this. Your statements are those of an uninformed member. Granted, I love helping people out, but those who are rude and ignorantly so deserve to find out the hard way. This hard way would be to waste $400-$500 on something that will be $200 in a few months while cards from Nvidia at the same price of $400-$500 will be "2 Times" better than those that you paid for a few months prior. Common sense is a virtue too I do believe.
So because I have a low post count, it means I'm uninformed? That's pretty naive, and says a lot about you. I've lurked on these boards long enough to see how little sense most of your posts make. You failed to answer my original two questions regarding where you extracted those two "oh so informative" tidbits from the original article. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point (as also evident in your many other posts). For this reason, I really don't want to waste my time arguing with you, since it's pointless. You'll take what I have to say the way you want to see it, and spew more nonsense. Since I'm here, a few points: "Sure, 3 x 5870s will run everything out right now on their highest settings imaginable @ 1920x1080, but I am focusing on the games of TOMORROW my friend. " This is rubbish, "my friend". It's completely overkill for 99.99% of games right now, and a waste of money for everything except for benchmarking, folding, and showing off. I have no problems with this at all, but I do when you try to change the reasons why you have them. Your whole comment about games of "TOMORROW" is BS, given what I know about you. I've seen several posts where you "show off" about getting tri/quad gt300's as soon as they come out (after owning your 5870's). This indicates that you have no interest in "future proofing" as you claim, and only interested in the latest and greatest, and showing off. Again, I have no problems with this attitude, but don't try and BS me. "Give me a reason why anyone would spend $400 on a GTX285 or $500 on a GTX295 right now... There are no reasons. That is a fact. I'm really waiting for your explanations. " Again, reading comprehension issues? You're pulling the same idiocy that you pull with Tom's article. Where the heck do I say that It's worth spending $500 on a GTX295??? My comment was simply that there are more reasons to buy a dx10 card right now than to buy 3x5870's AT A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT. This was in response to your comment about it being "horrible horrible" to buy ANY dx10 card right now. If you respond with a clear understanding of what's been said here (or what the original article discusses), I'll be happy to debate. If you start taking stuff and twisting it to your own liking, I'm not going to waste my time.
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General Iroh
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 11:38:50
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luv2increase
You said:
drivingon9
There are a LOT more reasons to buy a Dx10 card right now
Let us hear them shall we...
I know one good reason, is because the majority of games that are out now are DX 10. So until DX 11 becomes the new standard and the "future proof" GPU's aren't an arm and a leg, I don't mind spending within my budget (which is the key word, what I can afford is important to me) to play something that's out and popular now.
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rosuto
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 13:01:55
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I think the guide is being taken out of context. It is made for consumers with a budget. So if you had $200 to go spend on a graphics card, they would recommend getting a 4890 for best bang for your money. The chart on the last page gives you an idea of how your video card rates, pretty much saying if you own a GTX 285, its not worth it to replace it with a 5850. Instead it would be better if you saved your money until some better graphic cards came out.
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theGryphon
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 13:16:24
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drivingon9
luv2increase
lol
Tom thinks the GTX285 and GTX295 are the best for their money?
I think Tom needs to be committed to a lunatic asylum
I think you need to be committed to a reading comprehension asylum.
+1 luv2increase, you're overachieving yourself, lol... creating a debate out of thin air... bravo, what can I say... Purpose of Tom's chart is loud and clear: to rank the cards in terms of PERFORMANCE so that the reader can COMPARE THE PRICES and choose. Attaching any other meaning to that article is beyond my comprehension...
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 13:43:32
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drivingon9
So because I have a low post count, it means I'm uninformed? That's pretty naive, and says a lot about you.
WoW! When did I ever say that? Do you care quoting me on that one  This says much about your character I'm afraid. drivingon9
This is rubbish, "my friend". It's completely overkill for 99.99% of games right now, and a waste of money for everything except for benchmarking, folding, and showing off. I have no problems with this at all, but I do when you try to change the reasons why you have them.
Everything that I have ever stated is with regards to preparing for the future. This is what I mean when I say you are uninformed. DX11 is the future. DX11 is here now. The first major game is in 26 days from now. A multitude more games are just a "few" months away. Gamers like "eye-candy". DX11 gives "eye-candy". Why a gamer would spend "any" money right now on outdated hardware beats me becaues they will not be able to experience the eye-candy DX11 will deliver with hardware tessellation OVER THE NEXT 3 YEARS!!! Three years is considered "tomorrow". 3 years is considered future-proofing. I don't buy for the here and now. I am a smart shopper and buy for tomorrow. It is something that more people need to start doing. I beg you to listen to Clark Howard on the radio. He is a great radio host who helps people to save money and invest "wisely". You'll see that there is absolutely nothing "wise" about investing in "any" DX10 card right now today on the 5th of November, 2009. edit:
There you have it folks; the best cards for the money this month. Now all that’s left to do is to find and purchase them.
Don't you guys understand that anything other than DX11 cannot be considered a viable purchasing choice "for the money"... Do you not find it odd that the GTX280/285/295 are actually listed in there? They should be 1000 miles away from any statement as I quoted above from the article  It reminds me of the very few people who would purchase a $1000 C2Q instead of the Core i7 920 for $300. It just doesn't make any sense. I beg you all to read up on DX11 and what it will bring to the table over the next 3 years. You guys simply don't seem to understand at all. That is why of the reasons why we have message boards. It is to "educate". You guys are tripping me out...
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/05 14:03:24
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chump7431
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 14:00:55
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luv2increase is just very set on his ati cards. i am sure they are great, for now. ati is the only maker of dx11 as of now and they are cheaper then 285's and 295's. anyone wanting the best card but ati, now. anyone that wants the most graphical power wait a few months.
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 14:08:00
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chump7431
luv2increase is just very set on his ati cards. i am sure they are great, for now. ati is the only maker of dx11 as of now and they are cheaper then 285's and 295's. anyone wanting the best card but ati, now. anyone that wants the most graphical power wait a few months.
I am very set on DX11 cards. ATI/Nvidia --> it doesn't matter... The manufacturer is irrelevant to this discussion. DX11 is the key here because we are at one of those critical moments in time that occur every 3 or so years when a new DirectX API comes to the table. The difference with this time around is that it is HUGE. DX11 is HUGE. DirectCompute all of it. DX11 isn't just about graphics. That is another thing I'm not sure you all realize either. DX11 is about GPGPU computing. Look it up. I don't just care about graphics. I care about using my GPUs to accelerate my everyday applications' performance. chump7431
anyone that wants the most graphical power wait a few months.
This has been discussed to death. No one knows for sure who is going to have the more powerful card. A book could be written on just the speculation of what is going to happen. Saying that Nvidia is going to have the fastest DX11 is ignorant. Saying that ATI is going to have the fastest DX11 card is ignorant. Both companies say their offerings are going to be faster than the other. Numerous times I've written why it is "IMPOSSIBLE" for them to say such a thing.
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/05 14:11:57
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B3NJ1
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/05 15:32:49
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chump7431
luv2increase is just very set on his ati cards. i am sure they are great, for now. ati is the only maker of dx11 as of now and they are cheaper then 285's and 295's. anyone wanting the best card but ati, now. anyone that wants the most graphical power wait a few months.
I don't agree.. Yes he may love his ati cards right now, but I don't believe it is because they are "ATI". I read luv2increase's debates and I admit, he is informed and he does know what he is talking about. (@luv2) Sorry bud, not trying to kiss your ass, I will be the first to speak up when I disagree with you, however, I agree with you today. I agree that DX10 investments are not the smartest option at the moment. DX 11 is a big step from DX10, simply put, DX 10 purchases just do not make sense right now. I'd say either keep what you have and wait until you can afford a DX 11 option, OR purchase a DX 11 card which at the moment, HAS to be ATI (which is why I say luv2 is not just loving all over ATI, it's not his fault ATI is the only one with DX11 right now). I'd liken this to purchasing a socket 775 board....which was basically brought up by luv2 also. Maybe it will be good right now, however for similar price ranges a socket 1156 or 1366 will accommodate an i7, which 775 will not. Purchasing socket 775 and DX10 are complete dead ends.
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chump7431
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 01:21:41
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the reason y i say wait a few months is because we do not know what nvidia has to offer. there is an advantage right now with ati's card over a 285. but it doesnt seem to be a huge increase. i would think that nvidia is going to bring something impressive to the table. that is if they can get their act together. if nvidia comes out with the 300's and there are major issues, i think i might just stay with my 285's. my guess is that ati will have there dx11 cards out 4-5 months before nvidia gets theres. should be a fun battle
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Spunkie
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 06:08:25
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Public Service Announcement: A guide to blocking bat**** crazy people For Example: Cursor over luv2increase name in his post and see the "Block Member" option?........ Press it and have a better Hardware/Software News forum experience. Thank you and have a nice day. 
This public service announcement brought to you by: ~Stop debating stupid **** with stupid logic backed by stupid "facts" council 
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 08:05:41
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Spunkie
Public Service Announcement: A guide to blocking bat**** crazy people
For Example:
Cursor over luv2increase name in his post and see the "Block Member" option?........ Press it and have a better Hardware/Software News forum experience.
Thank you and have a nice day.
This public service announcement brought to you by:
~Stop debating stupid **** with stupid logic backed by stupid "facts" council Pardon me... That was harshly rude indeed. You say "stupid logic"? Well, elaborate on how it is "stupid". You can't win an argument or expect anyone to take you seriously unless you bring something good to the table instead of empty, bashing jargon. If you do not like debating in a logical, rational & professional manner, I suggest you find some other thread/forum to troll. You won't see me using foul and immature language as you have here either. This post of yours shows your true character. EVGA deserves better than this. Remember that what you post somewhat reflects back on EVGA. Take that into consideration next time before you post. Sadly, when you sit back and take a look at this, your only post of this thread was that of one against the TOS. It was completely irrelevant. If you want to comment "professionally" on something I wrote, by all means shoot. Otherwise, you just make yourself look like a forum troll or whatever they call them. Good luck! 
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/06 08:08:09
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shogon
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 08:36:56
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Appearance in every thread
I will either find a way, or make one. ٩(๏̯͡๏)۶
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gkanakis
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 08:38:04
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rosuto
I think the guide is being taken out of context. I agree!
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Spunkie
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 08:44:12
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The block system is so useless its just sitting there in bright green for you to click and read it anyways so yes I peaked and now I have to respond(I might explode otherwise). That green clickable test is like a man on a diet who has to live with a carmel apple sitting on a open pedestal in the middle of his kitchen all the time, he can leave the room with a bowl of of celery... but he always knows its there.... Luv2 do you ever read what people respond to 90% of your post, because you don't seem too. I'm going to quote someone because they basicly sum up my feeling exactly and if I were to write this out myself it would be filled with..... "immature language" Someone Calmer than Spunkie
So because I have a low post count, it means I'm uninformed? That's pretty naive, and says a lot about you.
I've lurked on these boards long enough to see how little sense most of your posts make.
You failed to answer my original two questions regarding where you extracted those two "oh so informative" tidbits from the original article. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point (as also evident in your many other posts). For this reason, I really don't want to waste my time arguing with you, since it's pointless. You'll take what I have to say the way you want to see it, and spew more nonsense.
~~~~
If you respond with a clear understanding of what's been said here (or what the original article discusses), I'll be happy to debate. If you start taking stuff and twisting it to your own liking, I'm not going to waste my time.
If you look what actually makes up the majority of this thread you'll see my firs post was actually more relevant than TH benchmark vs price point articles. If that doesn't tell you something.. then.. you have to be a "troll". Which would actually make be feel better because I can't imagine someone that believes they are not "trolling" to spawn such rage from simple text in me. On a side note did you learn your "debating in a logical, rational & professional manner" techniques from political ad campaigns by any chance? So... this more than likely wont be here for long seeing as you've already called the "tos whistle" on my posts as you do with any post that points out your full of bs, I'm going to go play a game of tf2 and try to relax.
post edited by Spunkie - 2009/11/06 08:55:41
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 09:01:23
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Spunkie
If you look what actually makes up the majority of this thread you'll see my firs post was actually more relevant than TH benchmark vs price point articles. If that doesn't tell you something.. then.. you have to be a "troll".
You quoted a post of someone else... Are you posting here using "2" different screen names??? Here was your first post. Spunkie
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How you see that as being quote, " more relevant than TH benchmark vs price point articles" is beyond me. It doesn't make any sense. Your first post had something to do with Tom's Hardware, graphics cards, DX10, DX11 or anything relevant to this thread and its topic. Spunkie
So... this more than likely wont be here for long seeing as you've already called the "tos whistle" on my posts as you do with any post that points out your full of bs, I'm going to go play a game of tf2 and try to relax.
The "TOS" is there for a reason. If you have not read it yet, I believe it would be good for you to do ASAP. I am all about following the rules of the forum and debating "sanely" rather than ranting irrelevant ad-hominem attacks. You are in over your head thus far with only 2 posts. That isn't good. If you want to discuss the "topic", I am ready. I will quote this once again because I feel some of you have missed the point  luv2increase
Don't you guys understand that anything other than DX11 cannot be considered a viable purchasing choice "for the money"... Do you not find it odd that the GTX280/285/295 are actually listed in there? They should be 1000 miles away from any statement as I quoted above from the article It reminds me of the very few people who would purchase a $1000 C2Q instead of the Core i7 920 for $300. It just doesn't make any sense. I beg you all to read up on DX11 and what it will bring to the table over the next 3 years. You guys simply don't seem to understand at all. That is why of the reasons why we have message boards. It is to "educate".
I don't know where your hatred arose from Spunky, but I am assuming you recently spent a lot of money on a high-end "DX10" card, and your psyche is attempting to justify your purchase through bashing those whom "logically" point out that such a purchase would be in vain.
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airddragon
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 09:04:27
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Well first, I would like to take the accusation that I'm uniformed as your quota attempt to troll me into getting angry and typing nonsense. I will now instead take your argument at face value and point out some things you seem to be missing, outside of the about 20 assumptions you have posted about either my thoughts or others. First, this is the list at the end of the article that, to quote it: Here are two resources to help you judge if a card is a good buy or not. The first is the graphics card hierarchy chart, which groups graphics cards with similar overall performance levels into tiers. The top tier contains the highest-performing cards available and performance decreases as you go down the tiers from there. It is not the actual suggested listing of what you should buy in what order. It is a guide to help you figure out if its a better deal. Why in the section it is even stated: I don’t recommend upgrading your graphics card unless the replacement card is at least three tiers higher. Otherwise, the upgrade is somewhat parallel and you may not notice a worthwhile difference in performance. So someone writing a generalized article is telling you to look at the list as a guide and to make sure what you pickis at least so much better or you may see a sideways step not a upgrade step as you thought it was? Blasphemy! :P As to the statement of "This chap is telling the consumer that the GTX285 is really gives "TWICE" the performance of the GTX260?" seems to be as you've been stated it "seemingly devoid of the proper analytical skills". I went through that article with a word search finding every entry of 285 and 260. The common theory tossed around online is that Nvidia is giving up the high-end graphics market for now, and we'll be seeing cards faster than the GeForce GTX 260 wane in availability before its next architecture emerges. Indeed, it is already getting difficult to find a new GeForce GTX 275 or GTX 285 available for purchase. I'm sorry but your statement has no merit on the article in question. No where in it is your statement even partially correct. Why it might be correct if you made a mistake and saw the 260M 3 spots or lower below the 285. But "thus far in this thread, it is more than apparent you do not understand any of this. Your statements are those of an uninformed member." Or wait maybe you jumped the gun on your conclusion, who knows. Me I double check facts before stated,but hey I like to "debating in a logical, rational & professional manner". And finally a mixed point. I do agree that buying a DX11 card is a good idea, recommended it to a buddy yesterday night actually. But I will add as I always do, if your buying on a budget future proofing is snake oil. If its on sale and you don't have to pay a premium for it, then buy it while you can. If it is coming at infalted prices and your 'need' is great (I emphasize on this because need is so relative a term) then buy it, otherwise wait for full market adoption to save yourself a few bucks. In addition I always say make sure the money you save not going with the future proofing card is not to much lower then the extra cost, otherwise its just a wash and you should have bought the pricier choice if you had the money to do so.
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 09:20:47
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airddragon
Well first, I would like to take the accusation that I'm uniformed as your quota attempt to troll me into getting angry and typing nonsense. I will now instead take your argument at face value and point out some things you seem to be missing, outside of the about 20 assumptions you have posted about either my thoughts or others.
First, this is the list at the end of the article that, to quote it:
Here are two resources to help you judge if a card is a good buy or not. The first is the graphics card hierarchy chart, which groups graphics cards with similar overall performance levels into tiers. The top tier contains the highest-performing cards available and performance decreases as you go down the tiers from there.
It is not the actual suggested listing of what you should buy in what order. It is a guide to help you figure out if its a better deal. Why in the section it is even stated:
I don’t recommend upgrading your graphics card unless the replacement card is at least three tiers higher. Otherwise, the upgrade is somewhat parallel and you may not notice a worthwhile difference in performance.
So someone writing a generalized article is telling you to look at the list as a guide and to make sure what you pickis at least so much better or you may see a sideways step not a upgrade step as you thought it was? Blasphemy! :P
As to the statement of "This chap is telling the consumer that the GTX285 is really gives "TWICE" the performance of the GTX260?" seems to be as you've been stated it "seemingly devoid of the proper analytical skills". I went through that article with a word search finding every entry of 285 and 260.
The common theory tossed around online is that Nvidia is giving up the high-end graphics market for now, and we'll be seeing cards faster than the GeForce GTX 260 wane in availability before its next architecture emerges. Indeed, it is already getting difficult to find a new GeForce GTX 275 or GTX 285 available for purchase.
I'm sorry but your statement has no merit on the article in question. No where in it is your statement even partially correct. Why it might be correct if you made a mistake and saw the 260M 3 spots or lower below the 285. But "thus far in this thread, it is more than apparent you do not understand any of this. Your statements are those of an uninformed member." Or wait maybe you jumped the gun on your conclusion, who knows. Me I double check facts before stated,but hey I like to "debating in a logical, rational & professional manner".
And finally a mixed point. I do agree that buying a DX11 card is a good idea, recommended it to a buddy yesterday night actually. But I will add as I always do, if your buying on a budget future proofing is snake oil. If its on sale and you don't have to pay a premium for it, then buy it while you can. If it is coming at infalted prices and your 'need' is great (I emphasize on this because need is so relative a term) then buy it, otherwise wait for full market adoption to save yourself a few bucks. In addition I always say make sure the money you save not going with the future proofing card is not to much lower then the extra cost, otherwise its just a wash and you should have bought the pricier choice if you had the money to do so.
All those points have been taken. My main point is how anyone can recommend to anyone to purchase a DX10 or DX10.1 card right now is a horrible thing to do. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it whatsoever. Because we are at that critical time that doesn't happen too often when a new DirectX version has been released his article is completely irrelevant. This is because it recommends DX10 and DX10.1 cards. It it were a year ago, great. If it were right after DX10 was released, swell. It wasn't. As for the quoted bold text of yours above, it too is also irrelevant. ATI has their budget DX11 cards already out. You could pick up one of them. If you don't want ATI, you can pick up Nvidia's "budget" DX11 cards in Q1 of 2010. If you want PhysX but don't want to wait for Nvidia's DX11 offerings, do as I did and purchase a dedicated GPU just for PhysX. You need to go back and see my points on how "idiotic" it would be to purchase a DX10 card right now and especially for $400-$500!!! That same $400-$500 dollars will buy you Nvidia's top-end DX11 card within the next two months. And, the GT300 card will give you wayyyy more performance than the GTX285/295!! That is a FACT. Don't waste your money. That is the advice I am giving. It is as simple as that. You will be kicking yourself when you see the benefits and awesomeness of DX11 and realized, "crap, I spent so much money on these cards, and I DON'T GET NONE OF THOSE BENEFITS??!!??" Quit going of the "erroneous" previous posts of mine. I admit I was wrong in saying he was recommending to buy the GTX285 & GTX295. That is over now. Let's focus on the premise of buying any "DX10-DX10.1" card right now and how much of a "bad investment" it is and will be.
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shogon
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 09:27:30
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shogon
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garnetandblack
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 09:40:32
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EDIT: @ Luv2 So... By your logic, the only cards that should be recommended are ATI cards (as they are the only DX11 cards out)? What about for XP users? Are they to purchase based on that belief as well? I'm not sure, but I don't believe the article was posted for Vista and 7 owners only, thus DX11 is irrelevant. The article has to cater to owners of all operating systems, and DX11, as you know, will not be on XP. There are also 7 and Vista users (perhaps not gamers, mind you) that are ambivalent to the inclusion or lack of DX11 features in their GPU and will buy just based on relative performance. Maybe they would consider DX11 a minor bonus, but it would not be a make or break feature. In fact, there are gamers that feel that way as well (such as myself). 26 days to wait for one game that I'm not really all that excited about is a poor reason for me to purchase a DX11 card right now. Do not project your beliefs onto the general public as if they are the only beliefs that are relevant. Clearly, they are not, or you wouldn't have so many folks disagreeing with you. Oh, and I had you, Tig, and Chiz blocked at one point on the old forums, but spunkie is right - the feature is fairly useless...
post edited by garnetandblack - 2009/11/06 09:42:10
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 10:11:02
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garnetandblack
EDIT: @ Luv2
So... By your logic, the only cards that should be recommended are ATI cards (as they are the only DX11 cards out)?
What about for XP users? Are they to purchase based on that belief as well? I'm not sure, but I don't believe the article was posted for Vista and 7 owners only, thus DX11 is irrelevant. The article has to cater to owners of all operating systems, and DX11, as you know, will not be on XP.
There are also 7 and Vista users (perhaps not gamers, mind you) that are ambivalent to the inclusion or lack of DX11 features in their GPU and will buy just based on relative performance. Maybe they would consider DX11 a minor bonus, but it would not be a make or break feature.
In fact, there are gamers that feel that way as well (such as myself). 26 days to wait for one game that I'm not really all that excited about is a poor reason for me to purchase a DX11 card right now.
Do not project your beliefs onto the general public as if they are the only beliefs that are relevant. Clearly, they are not, or you wouldn't have so many folks disagreeing with you.
Oh, and I had you, Tig, and Chiz blocked at one point on the old forums, but spunkie is right - the feature is fairly useless...
Well, seeming that DX11 "will not" ever be able to run on Windows XP, there is no point to buying a DX11 card. This is common sense GarnetandBlack. It is good you brought it up though because people may not have known that DX11 will never run on XP. Most people will upgrade from XP to Win7 though. The only groups I see holding back are big corporations and businesses firmly established with the XP operating system and see no need to upgrade at this point in time. It is also a money issue due to the poor state of the global economy. In other threads, I recommended that if you absolutely will not buy ATI cards to just wait it out for Nvidia's DX11 offerings and buy a 9800GT to hold you over. Then, after you purchase one or a few of the GT300 units, you can then use your 9800GT as a dedicated PhysX card. Therefore, nothing will go to waste. It is a perfect plan. Either way, the consumer will come out ahead. 
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garnetandblack
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 10:16:02
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I don't think Tom's can assume that "most" people are going to upgrade to 7. Thus, they have to cater the chart to all readers.
Simple as...
Perhaps they could have made some sort of distinction between cards that support DX11 and those that do not, but I don't really see anything wrong with the way they presented it. Basing it on pure performance is as relevant as any other approach, imo.
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luv2increase
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 10:23:24
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garnetandblack
I don't think Tom's can assume that "most" people are going to upgrade to 7. Thus, they have to cater the chart to all readers.
Simple as...
Perhaps they could have made some sort of distinction between cards that support DX11 and those that do not, but I don't really see anything wrong with the way they presented it. Basing it on pure performance is as relevant as any other approach, imo.
You can blame MS for this. They are the ones who are locking XP users out. It boils down to this: If you want to game with the best performance and the best "quality" right now in time, you'll see DX11 is your answer. Since Windows 7 has been "proven" to be a more than fantastic OS devoid of any of the pitfalls of Vista, it is only logical that XP users upgrade. From what I have gathered from XP users here, I can see that "many" will be making the upgrade. The mentality that not many will upgrade as was the case when Vista came on the scene is "not" a viable assumption anymore. XP debuted in 2001. It is almost 2010. It is time to upgrade. Windows 7 is light-years ahead of XP and coincides perfectly with the "hardware" technology we have today such as Multi-Core processors. If you are still running a computer which natively came with Windows XP, chances are you don't have the requirements to run a DX11 card on your hardware. It would be time for a complete system upgrade ---> purchasing or building a new computer... If you are an XP user, you might as well purchase a 7900GX2 lol
post edited by luv2increase - 2009/11/06 10:27:32
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garnetandblack
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Re:Tom's November GPU list
2009/11/06 10:59:17
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luv2increase
You can blame MS for this. They are the ones who are locking XP users out. It boils down to this:
If you want to game with the best performance and the best "quality" right now in time, you'll see DX11 is your answer. Since Windows 7 has been "proven" to be a more than fantastic OS devoid of any of the pitfalls of Vista, it is only logical that XP users upgrade. From what I have gathered from XP users here, I can see that "many" will be making the upgrade. The mentality that not many will upgrade as was the case when Vista came on the scene is "not" a viable assumption anymore. XP debuted in 2001. It is almost 2010. It is time to upgrade. Windows 7 is light-years ahead of XP and coincides perfectly with the "hardware" technology we have today such as Multi-Core processors.
If you are still running a computer which natively came with Windows XP, chances are you don't have the requirements to run a DX11 card on your hardware. It would be time for a complete system upgrade ---> purchasing or building a new computer...
If you are an XP user, you might as well purchase a 7900GX2 lol
I can't argue with any of that except for the last sentence. Clearly the newer cards have more to offer than just DX10/11 support. XP users benefit from that added performance - and, in my opinion (though not in practice, since I use 7), XP is still a very viable and capable OS. A little hyperbole never hurt anyone though... I do feel you will see a significantly higher adoption rate for 7 versus that of Vista (and I think the numbers bear this out: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-7-vista-sales-upgrade,9013.html), but you just know there are going to be those that do not upgrade their OS who are still looking to upgrade hardware. As for businesses, you may be surprised as to the rate of adoption. Some are very slow movers in this regard. Our office, for example, has seen most users get new computers just this year with Vista on them. Prior to that, it was a good 2-3 years without an upgrade, and those PCs ran XP. It may likely be 2-3 more years before we see another round of upgrades here - at that point we may see some 7 adoption... Of course, MS may have a new OS right around the corner by that point as well. I don't think you'll really start to see XP die out until vendors stop making drivers for it - and who knows when that will be.
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