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Hot!Titan X drivers not installing - SOLVED

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irkfine
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2021/01/09 13:03:37 (permalink)
In my system with EVGA Titan X (Maxwell) the last working NVIDIA driver is 385.69, all later drivers either fail to install or "install" but show error 43, this also including the last EVGA driver. I do not know if and to what extent hardware configuration may be impacting this though the system is not very typical. There are two Titan X in SLI configuration and  GTX 970 assembled in workstation with Xeon processor, 128GB RAM and Windows 10 64-bit. Advice I get is to test with with one Titan X but this is not so simple since the GPUs are watercooled in a single loop and dismantling would be cumbersome. The hardware does not seem to me be big part of the problem since up to the driver 385.69 the system works absolutely prefect including overclocking and stressing.
 
I tried whatever possible with the installation of drivers and any other tricks I could find but nothing helps. What could be the problem here? I find amazing that the driver 385.69 works perfectly and the next in line 388.00 and all after it totally fail. There had to be some change in the driver software but what it could be?
post edited by irkfine - 2021/01/13 02:15:08
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    Sajin
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/09 19:54:26 (permalink)
    You running a modded vbios on your cards? If yes, that is the issue.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/09 21:26:54 (permalink)
    irkfine
    In my system with EVGA Titan X (Maxwell) the last working NVIDIA driver is 385.69, all later drivers either fail to install or "install" but show error 43, this also including the last EVGA driver. I do not know if and to what extent hardware configuration may be impacting this though the system is not very typical. There are two Titan X in SLI configuration and  GTX 970 assembled in workstation with Xeon processor, 128GB RAM and Windows 10 64-bit. Advice I get is to test with with one Titan X but this is not so simple since the GPUs are watercooled in a single loop and dismantling would be cumbersome. The hardware does not seem to me be big part of the problem since up to the driver 385.69 the system works absolutely prefect including overclocking and stressing.
     
    I tried whatever possible with the installation of drivers and any other tricks I could find but nothing helps. What could be the problem here? I find amazing that the driver 385.69 works perfectly and the next in line 388.00 and all after it totally fail. There had to be some change in the driver software but what it could be?


    What OS version are you using?

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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 03:45:33 (permalink)
    Sajin
    You running a modded vbios on your cards? If yes, that is the issue.

    How do I check this? in GPU-Z there is BIOS version 84.001F.00.90 version but is this modded? Another question is why modded does not work after the driver 385.86, has Nvidia changed drivers to eliminate modding?
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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 03:48:50 (permalink)
     

    What OS version are you using?

    It is Windows 10 64-bit Pro version 10.0.18363.
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    veganfanatic
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 10:08:38 (permalink)
    I suggest installing Windows 10 v 20H2 so that all patches are current
     
     

      


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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 11:56:51 (permalink)
    veganfanatic
    I suggest installing Windows 10 v 20H2 so that all patches are current



    Oh yes, but this version does not install, when I try it runs installation but when it restarts goes into undoing changes. That of course is likely caused by graphics drivers not installing properly which in turn could be because the GPU BIOS is not signed properly.
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 12:35:51 (permalink)
    irkfine
    veganfanatic
    I suggest installing Windows 10 v 20H2 so that all patches are current



    Oh yes, but this version does not install, when I try it runs installation but when it restarts goes into undoing changes. That of course is likely caused by graphics drivers not installing properly which in turn could be because the GPU BIOS is not signed properly.


     
    If it will not install then you should backup and install windows clean
     

      


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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 13:20:18 (permalink)
    If you suspect that your GPU VBIOS is modified and not signed, you should flash an original un-modified VBIOS to the GPU.  That should be step 1.  If you need help obtaining a GPU VBIOS which you can be confident in, I am sure EVGA would be glad to assist.  https://www.evga.com/about/contactus/
     
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    Sajin
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/10 13:45:26 (permalink)
    irkfine
    Sajin
    You running a modded vbios on your cards? If yes, that is the issue.

    How do I check this? in GPU-Z there is BIOS version 84.001F.00.90 version but is this modded? Another question is why modded does not work after the driver 385.86, has Nvidia changed drivers to eliminate modding?

    If you don’t know if you’re running a modded vbios the best thing to do would be to just reflash the video card to the original vbios it came with. You can do that by downloading the latest version of nvflash from techpowerup.com. You should be able to download the original vbios from techpowerup.com/vgabios as well. To find out what the original vbios version is for your card you’ll have to remove the backplate on your card if your card has one, and look at the vbios version sticker. After downloading the correct vbios simply drag and drop the .rom file you downloaded onto the nvflash.exe to flash the card.

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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/11 06:45:05 (permalink)
    Indeed the problem was modded BIOS of Titan X. After reflashing original BIOS with NVFlash Nvidia drivers install with no problems. That was also the issue with Windows 10 update 20H2.
     
    Thank you guys for your help, I appreciate this.
     
    Now perhaps somebody could explain if there is modded BIOS for Titan X which is compatible with current Nvidia drivers?
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/11 10:03:42 (permalink)
    irkfine
    Now perhaps somebody could explain if there is modded BIOS for Titan X which is compatible with current Nvidia drivers?

    No, I don't think so.
     
    The GPU VBIOS is signed. After NVIDIA driver version 385.69, NVIDIA's drivers check for a valid signature.  If the signature is not valid, the driver stops it right there.
    No one knows the secret key needed to create a valid signature.  It's a closely guarded secret.  I believe that each AIB partner has to submit their VBIOS to NVIDIA for approval, NVIDIA approves it and signs it, and then sends it back to the AIB partner with the valid signature; but I could be wrong.  Maybe the AIB partners know how to sign the BIOS too.  But I kind of doubt the AIB partners know how to sign it, because that would make the key more likely to have been leaked by now.
     
    I have heard rumor that you can flash a modified VBIOS to the card using a hardware flasher, and it will still somehow work with new drivers, but I am not sure if that is true.  I don't know how that could possibly be true.  Maybe they combine a modified VBIOS and splice in a valid signature, and since they are using a hardware flasher, they don't have to worry about the VBIOS passing a checksum check during the flash, and it still somehow works.  I don't know.  Sounds unlikely.  You would think that a valid signature also takes into account the hash of the contents of the current VBIOS and thus this splicing theory would be impossible.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/01/11 10:11:38
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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/11 11:46:04 (permalink)
    Thank you for the explanation.Indeed starting from Pascal signatures are required and from Ampere BIOS is encrypted.
     
    Another potential way is Maxwell BIOS Tweaker

     
    but again the question will such tweaked VBIOS work with recent NVidia drivers?
     
    Some kind of tweaking is done even with the RTX30* cards, just replacing BIOS with BIOS form another card which has higher settings:
     

     
     
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    Sajin
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/11 13:48:33 (permalink)
    irkfine
    Indeed the problem was modded BIOS of Titan X. After reflashing original BIOS with NVFlash Nvidia drivers install with no problems. That was also the issue with Windows 10 update 20H2.
     
    Thank you guys for your help, I appreciate this.
     
    Now perhaps somebody could explain if there is modded BIOS for Titan X which is compatible with current Nvidia drivers?

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/11 16:10:09 (permalink)
    irkfine
    Thank you for the explanation.Indeed starting from Pascal signatures are required and from Ampere BIOS is encrypted.
     
    Another potential way is Maxwell BIOS Tweaker
     
     
    but again the question will such tweaked VBIOS work with recent NVidia drivers?
     
    Some kind of tweaking is done even with the RTX30* cards, just replacing BIOS with BIOS form another card which has higher settings:
     
     
     
     


    No that is not another potential way. Modifying the BIOS invalidates the signature. Valid signature is required by the driver.  You'd end up where you are now. It's not like folks have not been trying this for literally years.

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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 02:05:54 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    No that is not another potential way. Modifying the BIOS invalidates the signature. Valid signature is required by the driver.  You'd end up where you are now. It's not like folks have not been trying this for literally years.



    This must be then the best protected secret from the invention of computer since as they say everything gets hacked over the years.
     
    Paradox is that now I have the newest drivers but my watercooled dual SLI Titan X is grossly underutilized. Is there at least a way of fast loading tuning parameters at the startup
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    bob16314
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 06:25:22 (permalink)
    If you haven't yet, I would try Disable Driver Signature Enforcement in Windows and see if the driver installs with a modded VBIOS..Otherwise, I suppose you'd need to flash a valid/approved VBIOS when you wanna update/change/reinstall the driver, then flash it back to your modded VBIOS after that.

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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 06:41:09 (permalink)
    bob16314
    If you haven't yet, I would try Disable Driver Signature Enforcement in Windows and see if the driver installs with a modded VBIOS..Otherwise, I suppose you'd need to flash a valid/approved VBIOS when you wanna update/change/reinstall the driver, then flash it back to your modded VBIOS after that.

    Even if you get the driver to install, the card won't work properly at any boot. Usually it just Code 43s the card if the driver detects an invalid BIOS signature, until a valid BIOS is used, or an older driver is used.
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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 06:48:56 (permalink)
    bob16314
    If you haven't yet, I would try in Windows and see if the driver installs with a modded VBIOS..Otherwise, I suppose you'd need to flash a valid/approved VBIOS when you wanna update/change/reinstall the driver, then flash it back to your modded VBIOS after that.



    Disabling Driver Signature does not help, I checked this. This indicates that Nvidia goes farther than standard driver signature and during installation the driver software checks some kind of internal signature of VBIOS. As described above there is at present no way to mod the VBIOS and make it running with recent Nvidia drivers. It is possible to flash VBIOS between same type cards of different manufacturers which to me looks that there is only single Nvidia key for signing it. However manufacturers must have access to the signature producing software for setting VBIOS parameters. It is kind of amazing that nobody was able to crack this when people are able to do seemingly much more crazy things like emulation of the Nintendo Switch console.
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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 13:35:41 (permalink)
    irkfine
    bob16314
    If you haven't yet, I would try in Windows and see if the driver installs with a modded VBIOS..Otherwise, I suppose you'd need to flash a valid/approved VBIOS when you wanna update/change/reinstall the driver, then flash it back to your modded VBIOS after that.



    Disabling Driver Signature does not help, I checked this. This indicates that Nvidia goes farther than standard driver signature and during installation the driver software checks some kind of internal signature of VBIOS. As described above there is at present no way to mod the VBIOS and make it running with recent Nvidia drivers. It is possible to flash VBIOS between same type cards of different manufacturers which to me looks that there is only single Nvidia key for signing it. However manufacturers must have access to the signature producing software for setting VBIOS parameters. It is kind of amazing that nobody was able to crack this when people are able to do seemingly much more crazy things like emulation of the Nintendo Switch console.


    When you modify the BIOS you change the checksum. It really isn't that complicated which is why it is still effective. Your other question is of course you can use MSI Afterburner to set whatever overclock on the core or memory or fan profile you'd like, to be applied at Windows boot. I ran SLI for a long time so I am quite familiar with it.

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    safan80
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 19:39:26 (permalink)
    I don't see any mention of using the DDU driver install method. I'd had drivers get corrupted and cause this before..
     
    here's a video how to do it
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSiJkMnDcg4
     
    The latest version of DDU can be grabbed from here
     
    https://www.wagnardsoft.com/
     
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 20:03:27 (permalink)
    safan80
    I don't see any mention of using the DDU driver install method.

    Irrelevant.
    He was using a modified BIOS which will not work with modern drivers, no matter the driver install method.
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    safan80
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 20:06:41 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    safan80
    I don't see any mention of using the DDU driver install method.

    Irrelevant.
    He was using a modified BIOS which will not work with modern drivers, no matter the driver install method.




    It would work with the last working driver that the modded bios was running on.
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 20:23:07 (permalink)
    safan80
    ty_ger07
    safan80
    I don't see any mention of using the DDU driver install method.

    Irrelevant.
    He was using a modified BIOS which will not work with modern drivers, no matter the driver install method.




    It would work with the last working driver that the modded bios was running on.


    Yes, but it was/is.  DDU is irrelevant to that.  He has no problem installing and using the last working driver.  The problem is that he wants to use a newer driver.  The last working driver is probably missing features he is interested in using, and is not compatible with newer Windows updates.
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    safan80
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/12 20:27:36 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    safan80
    ty_ger07
    safan80
    I don't see any mention of using the DDU driver install method.

    Irrelevant.
    He was using a modified BIOS which will not work with modern drivers, no matter the driver install method.




    It would work with the last working driver that the modded bios was running on.


    Yes, but it was/is.  DDU is irrelevant to that.  He has no problem installing and using the last working driver.  The problem is that he wants to use a newer driver.  The last working driver is probably missing features he is interested in using, and is not compatible with newer Windows updates.




     
     Oh ok, now I got you.
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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/13 08:36:10 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    When you modify the BIOS you change the checksum. It really isn't that complicated which is why it is still effective. Your other question is of course you can use MSI Afterburner to set whatever overclock on the core or memory or fan profile you'd like, to be applied at Windows boot. I ran SLI for a long time so I am quite familiar with it.



    I believe Nvidia signature is more than checksum checking, it is kind of signing of the driver. Most recent Ampere cards have VBIOS encrypted. All this is understandable since drivers sit in the OS kernel and that cuts one backdoor whcih could be used for bad purpose. 
     
    I am now looking into the use of Afterburner but does it include a way of applying modified parameters to the card at boot without starting the whole application with its user interface etc?
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    irkfine
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/13 08:39:19 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    Yes, but it was/is.  DDU is irrelevant to that.  He has no problem installing and using the last working driver.  The problem is that he wants to use a newer driver.  The last working driver is probably missing features he is interested in using, and is not compatible with newer Windows updates.



    Indeed, for example if one wishes to test nice feat of engineering, Nintendo Switch emulators, they are working only with recent drivers.
     
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/13 09:50:58 (permalink)
    irkfine
    I am now looking into the use of Afterburner but does it include a way of applying modified parameters to the card at boot without starting the whole application with its user interface etc?

    Yes. Click the apply at startup button (Windows logo I think) and it will apply the most recent applied settings without launching the GUI application.
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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/13 11:50:59 (permalink)
    irkfine
    HeavyHemi
    When you modify the BIOS you change the checksum. It really isn't that complicated which is why it is still effective. Your other question is of course you can use MSI Afterburner to set whatever overclock on the core or memory or fan profile you'd like, to be applied at Windows boot. I ran SLI for a long time so I am quite familiar with it.



    I believe Nvidia signature is more than checksum checking, it is kind of signing of the driver. Most recent Ampere cards have VBIOS encrypted. All this is understandable since drivers sit in the OS kernel and that cuts one backdoor whcih could be used for bad purpose. 
     
    I am now looking into the use of Afterburner but does it include a way of applying modified parameters to the card at boot without starting the whole application with its user interface etc?




    Well yes, it is also encrypted but the basic failure is the checksum check. Yes you can start MSI Afterburner with Windows and have it set to Start Minimized and it will reside in the notification area as an icon.

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    Re: Titan X drivers not installing 2021/01/13 14:43:26 (permalink)
    The GUI application doesn't HAVE to start with Windows or start minimized, though.

    If you just click the Windows logo on the main screen, it will apply the most recently applied settings at every Windows boot WITHOUT launching the GUI application.

    The GUI application only launches if you have "Start with Windows" selected in the settings menu.

    He doesn't want the GUI application to launch with Windows, so he shouldn't select that.
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