XrayMan
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/18 23:21:46
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sk2play
BAD NEWS for the kiddos > HOSTESS will probably survive by means of its unionized competitors. I think I've been saying that.
http://www.usatoday.com/s...-sale-hostess/1712749/
I don't care who buys the company, as long as they keep making these:  
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way2faded
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 00:29:56
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Yea I got a box on Friday, with my $2000 bonus check....2nd part of our Union contract ratification payout.
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sk2play 
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 00:35:53
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 12:14:56
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Seems I got have 24 hours to unload 30 boxes of hostess cakes.
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donta1979
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 12:30:50
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 12:55:53
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Oh... Then it's all settled...  The bottom line is this: Regardless of how they got to where they are... They are out of money... They can't print their own... That seems to be lost on Americans these days. It doesn't matter!! They are broke, they offered up changes to try to stay afloat, and the unions didn't give in... The unions (and whoever else for that matter) can blame the top... the top can blame the workers... It's as simple as this: Their checks are no good anymore. Personally, If I owned a business these days I would sell... If I needed to make changes for the company to stay afloat, and my own darn employees wouldn't budge... I'd close... We better get used to it, b/c the blame game doesn't pay the bills.
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phades
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 13:05:16
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whiskers54
Kanti
-Now they won't even be able to collect unemployment because they were on strike.
Yeah, I lold pretty hard at that one. $9 an hour is looking really good right now, isn't it.
I agree. $9 an hour is good money, especially with the economy in the situation that it is in. Too bad that the Union leadership didn't consider that in their decision when they chose to ignore the company's stance. But, all is not lost. The Union will send those now unemployed Hostess union workers a few dollars and maybe a note that says something like: "Sorry for your loss".
There are instances where they can collect benefits, but that is a technical matter individually ruled upon and there are files that are kept for years after the fact documenting every case. There are even times where the UI program will setup a workshop to have all the employees fill out the paperwork for UI benefits all at the same time. I'm not sure how it works for this specific instance though. Kanti
phades
Kanti
Either way, $9 an hour is a whole lot better than $0 an hour.
If you can't eat, keep a roof over your head or afford to go to the doctor, there isn't any difference. If you have to have government subsidies to do any of the above, it shows a different kind of failure on a much larger scale opposed to the indivdiual level. Arguing to stay out of that situation or automatically going into it doesn't have much of a difference, if the company will force the situation in either event.
The illusion of choice was pretty bad in this situation.
$9 an hour is enough for me to pay off a 3 bedroom house in a well off suburb of a major US city, feed and clothe a family of 3, maintain 3 dogs and various other pets, and retire in 40 years with over $2.5 Million dollars from personal investments from the money I didn't frivolously spend. Keep your pension, just make sure I'm in fit enough condition to work and $9 an hour is more than enough to fill an assembly job.
If you can't live off $9 an hour, you're doing something wrong. Take a trip to any 3rd world country and then cry me a river about your $9 an hour.
Yep, and every city is someplace in the midwest with minimal cost of living where that would be nearly 1.5x wage where as many other places that is only slightly higher than minimum wage and low enough to qualify for government assistance programs. Cry in your own beer man, your experiences are not the same as everyone else's nor are the indicative of what is universally affordable. The only "winners" at hostess are the upper executives and they would have "won" regardless of what the unions decided to do or not do as evidenced from their own buisness practices over the last few years. Kanti If the management did such a bad job running the company, why not drop a few million on the table, start your own mass production bakery and not worry about it? More along the lines of most normal people can't get loans of that magnitude. It would be amusing, albiet absurdly unlikely, to see a kickstarter initiative manage crowd funding to turn around a company like that (not this one specifically, as there are too many different individual factors to consider).
post edited by phades - 2012/11/19 13:26:15
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Dejahboi
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/19 15:03:53
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Wow, and E*ay is already flooding with twinkies lol
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phades
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 08:31:45
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minger66
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 08:55:08
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zildjian75
Oh... Then it's all settled...
The bottom line is this: Regardless of how they got to where they are... They are out of money... They can't print their own... That seems to be lost on Americans these days. It doesn't matter!! They are broke, they offered up changes to try to stay afloat, and the unions didn't give in... The unions (and whoever else for that matter) can blame the top... the top can blame the workers... It's as simple as this: Their checks are no good anymore.
Personally, If I owned a business these days I would sell... If I needed to make changes for the company to stay afloat, and my own darn employees wouldn't budge... I'd close... We better get used to it, b/c the blame game doesn't pay the bills.
Best comment written in this whole thread. Does not matter who you are, can't pay bills without money.
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Mystikalrush
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 08:57:56
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You cant have your cake and eat it too.
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 09:17:41
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 09:40:26
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RELAX PEOPLE!! Don't worry you will be able to still by your fatty sweet snacks. Obesity in America will not go away any time soon. Plus you guys are forgetting you can always by the other brand of Twinkies too such as Zingers and Strawberry short cakes. What is sad of course is the good American workers losing their jobs. I just hope all you American citizens get use to all the job loses because its going to keep happening in even a more accelerating rate these upcoming months.
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Sajin
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 10:00:13
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
RELAX PEOPLE!! Don't worry you will be able to still by your fatty sweet snacks. Obesity in America will not go away any time soon. Plus you guys are forgetting you can always by the other brand of Twinkies too such as Zingers and Strawberry short cakes. What is sad of course is the good American workers losing their jobs. I just hope all you American citizens get use to all the job loses because its going to keep happening in even a more accelerating rate these upcoming months.
+1
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Randolla
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/20 14:01:42
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phades
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 08:39:49
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randolla
Here are some more details about how the unions and management came to be where they are now. Worth reading.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/11/19/death-twinkies-union-contract-hit/
Lots of rhetoric there and short on facts. If you like opinion pieces, this one has a lot more information within it. http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/20/4998328/blame-workers-unions-or-the-executives.html In reading any of these, it just looks like who ever was in the front seat, kept repeating the same failings over and over again expecting different results. Have debt, fire workers, reduce payment and benefits, then acquire more debt buying things that do not impact production, adjusting management salaries, or expanding holdings while the company's profits shrink. It is just sad to see this unfold like it is and have folks defend the practices in place. 20% more to give and part of the work force, 30% more to give after that and some more of the work force, then 8% and less benefits and more of the work force while competitors pay better wages, give better benefits and have more employees. It makes no sense.
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 08:50:50
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I guess that explains why there is so little cream filling in the products now.
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phades
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 08:56:10
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Kanti
I guess that explains why there is so little cream filling in the products now.
No doubt corner cutting, but if you have a product that people don't want/buy or view as inferior or more expensive the end result ends up being the same regardless. Parralleles could be drawn to other companies more relevant to this forum and have been briefly discussed. Hopefully realistic solutions will be put forward instead of just dismantaling companies that have existed for decades.
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fearpoint
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 11:48:18
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I'm not even in favor of Government bailouts, but if it's for Twinkies....
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 12:53:19
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fearpoint
I'm not even in favor of Government bailouts, but if it's for Twinkies....
I am not in favor of it to because the Government cant afford to bailout anything now days without borrowing more money. But really dude? Only for Twinkies 
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 13:06:53
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Judge approved the wind down plan for Hostess.
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phades
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 15:34:27
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Yep, news reported it earlier today around the time I made the first responses. Didn't read enough apparently, but I guess that doesn't come as a huge surprise given the amount of debt load they have. The forbes article hits on some spots others haven't yet. http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/11/18/hostess-twinkie-defense-is-a-management-failure/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter It does make me wonder if the management is going to continue to pursue the extra bonus money payments to them while they liquidate the company. Although the 2.4 billion for the brand rights and assets I read about elsewhere has to be a pipe dream. (can't find that article anymore...)
post edited by phades - 2012/11/21 15:41:18
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Nascarsucks
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 17:35:45
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rjohnson11
This thread has been OK so far. I wanted to give a quick pre-warning not to let this spill over into politics because sometimes it is coming close.
Yes I would have to agree this thread is getting too political, especially when you look at the the source of this article http://www.foxbusiness.com Not exactly a bastion of journalism 
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 20:51:53
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source is irrelevant; Twinkies are almost extinct.
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RainStryke
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 21:17:00
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Washington has a minimum wage of $9.04 per hour. http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._of_U.S._minimum_wages Some states still push to have less than federal minimum wage. It's funny how people are going on about how Unions are no longer needed... It's pretty crappy people can't see what's actually going on because the Unions have contracts with the companies that do not allow them to disclose information that could put them in bad light. There are so many things out there that unions have to peruse that you will NEVER hear about because it's part of the agreement. At my last job, they only cared about numbers. They wanted 90% of all customer calls answered within 3 minutes. If that number was above 90% they would ask people to go home or start laying people off if getting people to go home early wasn't enough... What's even worse is, we have private sector ambulance companies that follow the same procedure. But instead of a upset customer not being able to get to a representative on time, you have slower EMS response times if they get overloaded because they were meeting their numbers too much and valued profit margins over lives.
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mwparrish
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/21 21:34:28
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Here's my view on unions: members can't make it on their own and the leadership uses them like serfs -- offering protection in exchange for part of the fruits of their labor.
Never had trouble finding work, negotiating a competitive salary, and adding value. In fact, even since 2008, I've seen my salary increase 30%... add on another 23% with bonuses. I'm not saying that to beat my own chest, I'm just highlighting how you can accomplish far more without a union than with. You're just a grunt with a number in a union.
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RainStryke
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/22 02:41:17
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mwparrish
Here's my view on unions: members can't make it on their own and the leadership uses them like serfs -- offering protection in exchange for part of the fruits of their labor.
Never had trouble finding work, negotiating a competitive salary, and adding value. In fact, even since 2008, I've seen my salary increase 30%... add on another 23% with bonuses. I'm not saying that to beat my own chest, I'm just highlighting how you can accomplish far more without a union than with. You're just a grunt with a number in a union.
Are you failing to see the guys at the top taking out bigger "bonuses" than that? I bet they were probably using the company as an expense account to get away from paying taxes too. Unions are fighting for so many things other than just a fat check, it's about quality of life for the average American worker. We have the ability to negotiate a competitive salary because of Unions. Don't you realize that? They have not gone out of style or lost their use. Just because corporations can work just fine without a union, does not mean they can't be consumed by greed from the top either.
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Kanti
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/22 07:54:13
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If you don't like someone else eating the fruits of your labor, you don't have to have a job. It's crazy I know; but you can actually start your own business and be your own boss.
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xanderf
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/22 10:16:13
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Kanti
If you don't like someone else eating the fruits of your labor, you don't have to have a job. It's crazy I know; but you can actually start your own business and be your own boss.
I assume you realize that not every human is a clone of The Ideal Man, who can compose symphonies, lift 500-lb weights, code new AI routines, perform research to cure cancer, and lead a rock band, right? Indeed, some people even have crazy ideas like following basic biological instinct to preserve our species...and have a family. Some of these folks (I don't know any, personally, although I've heard they exist) don't actually want their lives to be about nothing more than the pursuit of more dollar bills, and want to do something more meaningful with it. Of course, mere survival in our current culture requires tons of those dollar bills...so everyone is stuck with a need to make money, whether it's important to them or not. Their potential disinterest in being a competitive, cut-throat, power-broker businessman puts them at a serious disadvantage in negotiating the value of their time with people who are competitive, cut-through, power-broker businessman. Enter the concept of 'Unions' to balance the odds out. (Although, as noted up-thread...you get rid of the idea of corporations/trusts/etc, and I think we can have a serious talk about getting rid of unions, too. I'm all about 'balance'...)
 
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kaninja
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Re:Stock up on Twinkies, Hostess is dead
2012/11/22 10:21:25
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xanderf
Kanti
If you don't like someone else eating the fruits of your labor, you don't have to have a job. It's crazy I know; but you can actually start your own business and be your own boss.
I assume you realize that not every human is a clone of The Ideal Man, who can compose symphonies, lift 500-lb weights, code new AI routines, perform research to cure cancer, and lead a rock band, right?
Indeed, some people even have crazy ideas like following basic biological instinct to preserve our species...and have a family. Some of these folks (I don't know any, personally, although I've heard they exist) don't actually want their lives to be about nothing more than the pursuit of more dollar bills, and want to do something more meaningful with it.
Of course, mere survival in our current culture requires tons of those dollar bills...so everyone is stuck with a need to make money, whether it's important to them or not. Their potential disinterest in being a competitive, cut-throat, power-broker businessman puts them at a serious disadvantage in negotiating the value of their time with people who are competitive, cut-through, power-broker businessman. Enter the concept of 'Unions' to balance the odds out.
(Although, as noted up-thread...you get rid of the idea of corporations/trusts/etc, and I think we can have a serious talk about getting rid of unions, too. I'm all about 'balance'...)
Very well said. 
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