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RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to sell

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kraade
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2023/01/04 15:53:43 (permalink)
Tuesday they come out and call it the 3090TI killer but the reviews come out today and it looses to the 3090TI in 80 % of games at 4 K in the reviews, It's horrible how much they are trying to play us and I for one am glad EVGA is not putting up with it.
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    Hoggle
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/04 22:00:39 (permalink)
    I don’t think it’s that bad since it might not beat a 3090Ti like they say but it does beat a 3080Ti and does so at a far lower price than a 3080Ti released at. Of course it’s also kind of hard to not point out that the 3080 released at $699.

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    nofearek9
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/04 22:21:08 (permalink)
    they are trying to sell a xx70 series card for the price of a xx80 card.another card that will stay in the shelf!

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    #3
    Hoggle
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/04 23:56:23 (permalink)
    nofearek9
    they are trying to sell a xx70 series card for the price of a xx80 card.another card that will stay in the shelf!


    I don’t know if it will stay on the shelf since I personally don’t care what they call it I just care if I can game on it at a level that I will enjoy and I feel it does that. I will wait to see what happens though with the 4060 and 4050 if it comes out. It’s going to be odd though if a 4060 is $599 and a 4050 would be like $399 but I would consider the benchmarks and what else is available for the same budget.

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    #4
    transdogmifier
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 05:19:39 (permalink)
    If I were going to spend for the cost of the 4080 ..I wouldn't buy a 4070Ti....
     
    I'm holding out for a 4090 tho
     

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 05:42:14 (permalink)
    I watched the Gamer's Nexus review which shows that an AMD 7900 XT does better in many circumstances. It is also too expensive. 

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    #6
    B0baganoosh
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 06:36:24 (permalink)
    If you just look at performance per watt it's an amazing card. If you look at 30-series and assume their prices won't drop at all from where they were before launch (which has never happened before, but that's what Nvidia is trying to do here really), it would make sense...mostly. I think if you just rolled into the 30-series launch and fit them in and said "you get this much performance per dollar" during the same product generation, there'd be very minimal complaints. The problem is that we were not all born yesterday. There is a long history of new product launches. A new card at a particular tier replaces the old one, costs have generally stayed the same, short of some expected inflation increases and one big outlier of the 30-series where original launch prices were good, but later skus were HORRIBLE because of the pandemic and crypto-induced shortages. The complaints are about cost per frame. here are a couple examples:


     
    The 7900 series is not doing a lot better here, but at least the XTX is trending slightly downward on price/frame, which is what every new generation has done for the initial launch cards. Gamer's nexus looked at this:

     
    Think about it...if the cost/frame didn't go down every year, where would we be since the GTX 480? What about the 8800GTX? 4080's would cost well over $20k, even if you just assume a 25% increase in performance each year since then. The 3080 was what, 30% faster than a 2080? (trying to remember, but a ballpark is fine for this example). This would be like them launching the 3080 at $993 (1.09x(1.3x$700)) if you factor in the cost per frame from TPU above and the extra 30% performance. That's not what happened. That hasn't at any point been what they've done until this gen.
     
    So let's play this out for next generation, because this is the new precedent...let's just guess that a 5080 is ~25% faster than a 4080. OK, so now it costs $1635. 6080 will be $2230. Yup...sounds reasonable...sure...
     
    post edited by B0baganoosh - 2023/01/05 06:37:58

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    #7
    tattude69
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 07:19:41 (permalink)
    Until people value their money more then the shiny new object corporate greed will never change.
    Nvidia has been using the trickling down effect for years.
    Their Corporate slogan should be
    (Give us more Cash and we will give you less)

     
     
                               
    #8
    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 09:13:52 (permalink)
    LOL what a whiners party 
     

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    kraade
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 10:23:44 (permalink)
    Just got an Email from Newegg saying they have PLENTY, lol ON LAUNCH DAY!!! . All I got to say is Ah HAHAHA!
    #10
    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 10:51:14 (permalink)
    kraade
    Just got an Email from Newegg saying they have PLENTY, lol ON LAUNCH DAY!!! . All I got to say is Ah HAHAHA!
     

    Newegg have just 2 models in stock atm?
    Micro Center in Minneapolis (11 models) and Best Buy (6 models) have variety of models starting from $800 to $1,050.
    In addition, Best Buy have 4080 FE for $1,200 in stock.
     
    EDIT:
    LOL, scalpers went stupid.
    There are 30 4070Ti cards on Ebay priced up to $1,699 
    post edited by dragomirc - 2023/01/05 11:53:40
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    kraade
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 11:56:44 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    kraade
    Just got an Email from Newegg saying they have PLENTY, lol ON LAUNCH DAY!!! . All I got to say is Ah HAHAHA!

    Newegg have just 2 models in stock atm?
    Micro Center in Minneapolis (11 models) and Best Buy (6 models) have variety of models starting from $800 to $1,050.
    In addition, Best Buy have 4080 FE for $1,200 in stock.
     
    EDIT:
    LOL, scalpers went stupid.
    There are 30 4070Ti cards on Ebay priced up to $1,699 


    Yup they gona be eating those .
    #12
    kraade
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/05 17:48:55 (permalink)
    This has got to be a record , there are 13 different flavors of the newest of a high-mid tier GPU available to purchase on Launch day 
    #13
    Hoggle
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 00:08:26 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    kraade
    Just got an Email from Newegg saying they have PLENTY, lol ON LAUNCH DAY!!! . All I got to say is Ah HAHAHA!

    Newegg have just 2 models in stock atm?
    Micro Center in Minneapolis (11 models) and Best Buy (6 models) have variety of models starting from $800 to $1,050.
    In addition, Best Buy have 4080 FE for $1,200 in stock.
     
    EDIT:
    LOL, scalpers went stupid.
    There are 30 4070Ti cards on Ebay priced up to $1,699 


    Now look at the prices that scalpers want for a 3090Ti still. It’s why I was kind to the 3070Ti at its launch price. I would want the 4070Ti to be lower price if the 3090Ti was still able to be found cheaper.

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    Roy10266
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 04:09:36 (permalink)
    The 4080 and 4070 Ti suck, NVIDIA knows it. "3000 series continues to provide great value for gamers" "4000 series is a great upgrade from 10 or 20 series"

    If it was a good upgrade for 30 series owners without going beyond inflation's increases then it'd be a good generation.
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    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 06:10:53 (permalink)
    Roy10266
    The 4080 and 4070 Ti suck, NVIDIA knows it. "3000 series continues to provide great value for gamers" "4000 series is a great upgrade from 10 or 20 series"
    If it was a good upgrade for 30 series owners without going beyond inflation's increases then it'd be a good generation.

    LOL, what a bitter statement 
     
    4K series obliterates 3K series performance per watt wise (check CUDA core count, clock speed, TDP, and see benchmark charts).
     
    Now overpricing is another cup of tea.
     
    #16
    kraade
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 14:14:42 (permalink)
    I think after the 3070 came out and was the performance of a 1200 card for half the price that was exciting and today they engineer the 4070ti to be almost as good as the 3090 for the same (market) price, that comes with bitterness...j.s.
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    Roy10266
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 18:20:56 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    Roy10266
    The 4080 and 4070 Ti suck, NVIDIA knows it. "3000 series continues to provide great value for gamers" "4000 series is a great upgrade from 10 or 20 series"
    If it was a good upgrade for 30 series owners without going beyond inflation's increases then it'd be a good generation.

    LOL, what a bitter statement 
     
    4K series obliterates 3K series performance per watt wise (check CUDA core count, clock speed, TDP, and see benchmark charts).
     
    Now overpricing is another cup of tea.
     


    Why would I care about 100 watts less for a less than worthwhile performance increase, at a crazy price? The price is kind of the whole point. 

    kraade
    I think after the 3070 came out and was the performance of a 1200 card for half the price that was exciting and today they engineer the 4070ti to be almost as good as the 3090 for the same (market) price, that comes with bitterness...j.s.

    Exactly.
    post edited by Roy10266 - 2023/01/06 18:30:14
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    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 18:57:22 (permalink)
    Roy10266
     
    Why would I care about 100 watts less for a less than worthwhile performance increase, at a crazy price? The price is kind of the whole point. 

    You should broaden your knowledge about PC hardware.
    Don't like the price, don't buy. 
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    Roy10266
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 19:00:48 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    Roy10266
     
    Why would I care about 100 watts less for a less than worthwhile performance increase, at a crazy price? The price is kind of the whole point. 

    You should broaden your knowledge about PC hardware.
    Don't like the price, don't buy. 


    I already knew about the performance per watt. I'm already not buying it. What's your point? That it is a worthwhile performance increase??? Maybe to you, but I have a 3080 I paid $864 with including tax and shipping. The 4070 Ti MSRP means nothing with no Founder's Edition. The average SKU averages $896 before tax or shipping, so the 70 Ti is now entering the pricing tier of an 80 series, but its performance falls between a 3080 Ti and 3090 Ti. How is that good value?
    post edited by Roy10266 - 2023/01/06 19:07:58
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    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 19:20:11 (permalink)
    Roy10266
     
    I already knew about the performance per watt. I'm already not buying it. What's your point? That it is a worthwhile performance increase??? Maybe to you, but I have a 3080 I paid $864 with including tax and shipping. The 4070 Ti MSRP means nothing with no Founder's Edition. The average SKU averages $896 before tax or shipping, so the 70 Ti is now entering the pricing tier of an 80 series, but its performance falls between a 3080 Ti and 3090 Ti. How is that good value?

    There is no more good value.
    If you are waiting for huge performance increase for same money as previous generation, that's not going to happen.
    If you do not game on 4K, no need for upgrade anyway. 
    If you do 4K gaming, you need do shell more $ and get the more powerful card.
    #21
    Roy10266
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/06 19:24:50 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    Roy10266
     
    I already knew about the performance per watt. I'm already not buying it. What's your point? That it is a worthwhile performance increase??? Maybe to you, but I have a 3080 I paid $864 with including tax and shipping. The 4070 Ti MSRP means nothing with no Founder's Edition. The average SKU averages $896 before tax or shipping, so the 70 Ti is now entering the pricing tier of an 80 series, but its performance falls between a 3080 Ti and 3090 Ti. How is that good value?

    There is no more good value.
    If you are waiting for huge performance increase for same money as previous generation, that's not going to happen.
    If you do not game on 4K, no need for upgrade anyway. 
    If you do 4K gaming, you need do shell more $ and get the more powerful card.



    I want the 80 series costs to increase with inflation only.
    But it's not the same cost adjusted for inflation, it's increased higher than that.
    I have a 240Hz monitor and use ray tracing at 1440p, I already have games running at 80fps and lower. An upgrade would be nice.
    If I gamed at 4K I would get a 4090 where there is a semblance of value frame per dollar.
    #22
    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/07 08:59:50 (permalink)
    Roy10266
     
    I want the 80 series costs to increase with inflation only.
    But it's not the same cost adjusted for inflation, it's increased higher than that.
    I have a 240Hz monitor and use ray tracing at 1440p, I already have games running at 80fps and lower. An upgrade would be nice.
    If I gamed at 4K I would get a 4090 where there is a semblance of value frame per dollar.

    So, you sacrifice 4K resolution for 240Hz. Huge mistake and waste of money.

    Most experts have a tough time agreeing on an exact number, but the conclusion is that most humans can see at a rate of 30 to 60 frames per second. There are two schools of thought on visual perception. One is absolute that the human eye cannot process visual data any faster than 60 frames per second

     
    I have LG  32" 4K, 1Ms response, 144Hz (run overclocked to 160Hz for fun) monitor and needed more fps than 3070 could generate.
     
    Decided to buy overpriced 4080 as best choice (270 - 330W gaming power use) instead power-hungry 4090 (450 - 600W)
     
    Calculation is simple, chose 25-30% less performance, using 60-70% less power.
    Found that was right choice as 4080 nicely generate fps for smooth eye candy gaming, whilst 4090 is even for 4K gaming overkill anyway.
    Price and value frame per dollar are not deciding factor for me, but performance/power use ratio, quiet/efficient thermals, when purchasing a new hardware. 
     
    We all have different personal preference and luckily, we have choice to vote with our wallet. 
    #23
    Roy10266
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/07 09:17:24 (permalink)
    The panel is a Samsung VA with the best of all worlds at a reasonable price (no black smearing). Why would I want 4K at a competitive 27" size I'm sitting right in front of, when I still get 80fps and less in some ray traced games? Games will keep getting more demanding, and 4K would be stupid in my use case. Boujee much?


    dragomirc
    Most experts have a tough time agreeing on an exact number, but the conclusion is that most humans can see at a rate of 30 to 60 frames per second. There are two schools of thought on visual perception. One is absolute that the human eye cannot process visual data any faster than 60 frames per second


    The study wasn't using gamers. I couldn't see 144 the first time I saw it either. You can definitely see a difference between 144 and 180 though, even if it's minimal and doesn't increase your reaction time. I have no idea where it exactly falls, but it's not 60. If you want to make that argument, maybe find somewhere populated with people who want to argue all day about irrelevant and arbitrary things.


    dragomirc
    Maybe you should try 4K, IPS panel, 1Ms, 144Hz, all settings maxed, gaming experience.
    It is even better then gaming on OLED 65" at 120Hz.
     
    Problem is that, like most people online, stubbornness and stand your ground attitude, simply fogging other possible options.
     
    Enjoy in your virtual reality as this my last reply.


    Maybe you should quit trying to trump everyone else's opinion and broaden your knowledge about panels. '1ms' advertised has nothing to do with overshoot and cumulative deviation. Simply getting an 'IPS' speaks nothing about its quality. Try Hardware Unboxed and Monitors Unboxed youtube channels. Enjoy being disrespectful all the time. Apologies to the forum, I wasn't looking to debate 'opinions'.
     
    post edited by Roy10266 - 2023/01/08 04:39:11
    #24
    dragomirc
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/07 10:19:30 (permalink)
    Maybe you should try 4K, IPS panel, 1Ms, 144Hz, all settings maxed, gaming experience.
    It is even better then gaming on OLED 65" at 120Hz.
     
    Problem is that, like most people online, stubbornness and stand your ground attitude, simply fogging other possible options.
     
    Enjoy in your virtual reality as this my last reply.
    post edited by dragomirc - 2023/01/07 10:22:31
    #25
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/07 18:45:30 (permalink)
    Not sure what NVidia is attempting to sell with the 4080 12gb, but I can tell you that from the micro center I stopped by, people aren’t buying 4080 16gb or 12gb models.



    This is only a small glimpse, there was a huge shelf of 30 series cards and some intel cards as well.
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2023/01/07 18:46:51
    #26
    rjohnson11
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/08 04:30:58 (permalink)
    First of all I want to ask that everyone respect each other's posts whether you like them or not. It would be a pity if we have to lock this thread.
     
    NVIDIA is simply asking too much money for the RTX 4080 and RTX 4070ti cards. Performance doesn't match the asking price. 

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    Sajin
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/08 04:33:33 (permalink)
    the_Scarlet_one
    Not sure what NVidia is attempting to sell with the 4080 12gb, but I can tell you that from the micro center I stopped by, people aren’t buying 4080 16gb or 12gb models.



    This is only a small glimpse, there was a huge shelf of 30 series cards and some intel cards as well.

    Lol. Wow.
    #28
    kraade
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/01/09 16:30:34 (permalink)
    EVEN the MSI store has had the 4080 and 4070TI with a buy now button lit since launch day of each card
    #29
    SM-71
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    Re: RTX 4070Ti we kind of knew it was bad but I can't understand what they are trying to s 2023/02/01 11:15:52 (permalink)
    4070 Ti is cheaper than I paid for my 3070 Ti but with 50% higher performance across the board & doing so with nearly identical power usage showing just 2% power increase in FurMark.  Meanwhile, 20-30% lower performance than 4080 but for $400 less than 4080....   Beats the 3090 across the board....  
     
    Vs 3090 Ti & WITHOUT matured drivers for the 4070 Ti... 
    Tom's hardware 9 game mean FPS Ultra 4K -5.9fps stock / +0.6fps overclocked vs 3090 Ti 
    Assasins Creed: Valhala Ultra 4K +9fps vs 3090 Ti
    Forza Horizon 5 Ultra 4K +9.8fps stock / +16.8 fps overclocked vs 3090 Ti 
    FarCry 6 Ultra 4K -2fps vs 3090 Ti
    Of course there are games that don't do so well like Witcher III Wild Hunt -17fps 
     
    Overall, I don't see what the problem is  YES it sucks that 70 tier pricing went up, but it's still a huge value Vs 3090 / 3090 Ti cards.
    post edited by SM-71 - 2023/02/01 16:32:00

    Rebuild 2.0 Specs:  Phantek's Enthoo Pro Full Tower case * Gigabyte Z690 Gaming X DDR4 motherboard * Intel i9-13900KS CPU with Kraken X63 AIO * WIN 11 PRO 64bit * MSI 4070 Ti Gaming X Trio GPU * Corsair Vengeance 64GB(4x16GB) RAM * Solidigm P44 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD (Win11 Pro) + Intel 665p 1TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 990 Pro 2TB M.2 NVMe (storage) + Samsung 980 1TB M.2 NVMe (Ubuntu) * Seasonic Vertex GX-1200 1200W ATX 3.0 PSU * Samsung 50 inch QN90A 4K TV/monitor * FANS: Bitfenix Spectre Pro 200mm front intake + 2x Noctua NF-A14 Industrial PPC 140mm exhaust on Kraken X63 radiator + 1 Noctua NF-A12 120mm rear intake
    #30
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