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Hot!NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm?

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rjohnson11
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2020/07/02 23:07:20 (permalink)
https://www.techpowerup.com/269347/nvidia-geforce-ampere-gpus-built-on-samsung-8nm-instead-of-tsmc-7nm
 
NVIDIA's upcoming GeForce "Ampere" family of GPUs will be built almost entirely on Samsung's 8 nanometer silicon fabrication process that's derived from its 10 nm node; rather than TSMC's 7 nm process, according to kopite7kimi, a source with a high hit-rate with NVIDIA rumors in the past. The 8LPP silicon fabrication node by Samsung is an extension of the company's 10LPP (10 nm) node. Both have the same fin pitch, but reductions are made in the areas of gate pitch (down by 6%) resulting in a transistor density of over 61 million/mm². Apparently NVIDIA's entire high-end product stack, including the GA102 silicon that powers at least three high-end consumer SKUs, are expected to be based on Samsung 8LPP.
 
Well Samsung is TSMC's only major competitor so it makes sense that NVIDIA could choose Samsung as its fab in my opinion. I'm curious if Samsung offered NVIDIA a good price of video memory as a combo deal.

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#1

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/03 01:11:30 (permalink)
    the info i was getting was 10nm
     
    which would explain the large dies, power draw and the heat issues
     
    if they can beat AMD with 10nm++ rather than 7nm(thats non + til next year)
    thats a good deal and put hopper on 7nm+ when it matures
     
     
    corrections that 10nm refined to 8nm LPP without EUV
     
    lol if they beat AMD with 8nm LPP then they are ahead of the ballgame
     
     
    confirmed Orin uses 8nm LPP
     
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/03 01:35:41


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    #2
    Hoggle
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/03 04:38:23 (permalink)
    We will have to see when it comes out but it does sound interesting if it's true.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/03 05:52:41 (permalink)
    Xavier Zepherious
    if they beat AMD with 8nm LPP then they are ahead of the ballgame

    "If"? It's almost certain that they will 'beat' AMD when it comes to performance. I don't think that there is a single person who expects otherwise.

    AMD fights the performance-per-dollar battle, and the winner of that battle is far more subjective and opinion-based. So will AMD win when it comes to price-to-performance? It's hard to say. Even long after the products are released, that argument won't be settled. Everyone will have their own opinion and use-case. It won't matter to AMD; AMD will just keep on happily selling cards to the mainstream.
    #4
    atfrico
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/03 17:30:56 (permalink)
    relying on samsung now?  Guess Nvidia and Intel having a hard time with TSMC

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    weasel333
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/03 19:41:31 (permalink)
    Wrong.

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    kougar
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/04 08:21:50 (permalink)
     
    NVIDIA has a history of fabbing lower model cards on Samsung, so it wouldn't surprise me if they are fabbing more due to to capacity limits at TSMC again. 
     
    I don't believe the rumor is accurate for "big" Ampere parts though, those are going to be TSMC 7nm. Probably only applies to the smaller models again. 


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    MasterMiner
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/04 10:27:56 (permalink)
    When you have 5,000+ symmetrical multiprocessors (CUDA cores) on one big massive chip... Between 8nm and 7nm - even 10nm - makes zero real world difference.

    If it did - then AMD would be ruling the GPU market... and, of course... not even close.

    On full-fat cpu’s or very small footprint phones, it makes a difference.

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    #8
    veganfanatic
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/04 10:48:48 (permalink)
    Speculation is fine but until I am in no rush to replace my RTX 2080 Black Edition just yet. I am figuring the card will be viable for a couple of years anyway before games are too demanding.
     


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    #9
    rjohnson11
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/04 11:43:50 (permalink)
    MasterMiner
    When you have 5,000+ symmetrical multiprocessors (CUDA cores) on one big massive chip... Between 8nm and 7nm - even 10nm - makes zero real world difference.

    If it did - then AMD would be ruling the GPU market... and, of course... not even close.

    On full-fat cpu’s or very small footprint phones, it makes a difference.

    Smaller GPU and CPU dies do make a difference in energy efficiency. This is why Intel's current CPUs are not as energy efficient as AMD's CPUs in my personal opinion. 
     
    Smaller die sizes also allow for increased cores and speed. 

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    #10
    Miguell
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/05 03:26:20 (permalink)
    they are reaching silicon limits.
    under 10nm its obvious by now its becoming a real pain! we are stuck!
     
     
    i wonder when they will make the transition to graphene!

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    #11
    rjohnson11
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/05 04:33:04 (permalink)
    Miguell
    they are reaching silicon limits.
    under 10nm its obvious by now its becoming a real pain! we are stuck!
     
     
    i wonder when they will make the transition to graphene!


    Right now that is not a consideration. TSMC for example already has planning for the next few years all the way done to 2nm.

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    #12
    Miguell
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/06 09:30:44 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Miguell
    they are reaching silicon limits.
    under 10nm its obvious by now its becoming a real pain! we are stuck!
     
     
    i wonder when they will make the transition to graphene!


    Right now that is not a consideration. TSMC for example already has planning for the next few years all the way done to 2nm.


    welll they realllllly gonna struggle then....  really struggle....   if they already have all these issues getting to 7nm much less 2nm .....

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/06 09:47:19 (permalink)
    Miguell
    welll they realllllly gonna struggle then....  really struggle....   if they already have all these issues getting to 7nm much less 2nm .....

    Who? TSMC? TSMC hasn't been struggling with 7nm. TSMC is already making 5 nm with a 80% yield rate.
    And TSMC has already started constructing its 3nm fab late 2019 at the cost of 19.5 billion US dollars. TSMC plans to be producing 3nm chips in 2023.

    Intel has been struggling big time with less than 14nm. Not TSMC.

    The problem with graphene is that no one (as far as I know) has been able to figure out how to make graphene have a band gap (act as a semiconductor). As far as I know, all the graphene technology currently in development uses a traditional silicon semiconductor, and just uses the graphene for all of the connecting interconnects. Graphene has excellent electrical conductivity and thermal conductivity, so it can still be a very useful thing, but its not going to solve the limitations of silicon on its own. Until they find some other semiconductor or figure out how to to make graphene act as a semiconductor, graphene isn't going to be the miracle material. The band gap problem means that they have no way to turn it off. If it's always on, it's not a switch, is it? And they still need to develop the graphene manufacturing process in order to make it into something which can be used in mass production at a reasonable cost.

    Edit: Did some more research and discovered that one research group claims to have made graphene behave like a semiconductor by making it grow with uniform spaced pores. I don't know if further progress has been made. It will be interesting. Either way, we aren't there yet. And according to most slides available, graphene commercialization projects are currently using a silicon base layer.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/07/07 02:52:58
    #14
    veganfanatic
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/06 17:36:09 (permalink)
    I prefer the metric of transistors per square millimeter which is a more honest reflection of the device density.
     
    I posted some comments recently https://hardcoregames.video.blog/2020/07/04/fab-outlook-in-july-2020/
     
     
     


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    MasterMiner
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/06 21:14:41 (permalink)
    I actually think it’s a problem at the sub-atomic level, and not materials, that is limiting sub nanometer growth.

    Well beyond my brain-power - but quantum entanglement appears to be a problem sub-nanometer.

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/07 10:52:05 (permalink)
    MasterMiner
    I actually think it’s a problem at the sub-atomic level, and not materials, that is limiting sub nanometer growth.

    Well beyond my brain-power - but quantum entanglement appears to be a problem sub-nanometer.



     
     
    it's more than that
     
    EUV gun waver is 0.5 nm...thats how far the gun differs from a straight line so thats 0.5nm each way... so traces have to be more than 1nm apart so they don't touch
     
    the problem lies with power and air molecules as you are burning - Air moisture will change the gun position as well as air pressure and whats in the air - it's composition(oxygen,CO2,etc) which varies
    power is also not constant - no mater how good you Power supply is you have power line variances as well as internal variances
     
    Dialectric problem also arise - thats leakage due to impedance and capacitance - since the parts are so close together they leak energy to each other -that also creates noise they have to deal with
     
     
    so as we go go to small nodes it's going to be more difficult and much more expensive - expect low yield rates
     
    they really need New materials and a totally new process
     


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    Brad_Hawthorne
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/07 16:43:47 (permalink)
    weasel333
    Wrong.


    You win the internet for the most 2020 thing I've read all day. Posts a 1 word opinion and doesn't bother to explain why. Thanks for my quota of entropy for the day. 
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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/08 12:41:04 (permalink)
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) Surpasses Intel to Become the Third-Largest Semiconductor in the World by Market Cap
     
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ:NVDA 406.71 3.00%) shares seem to be in no hurry to end their record run. As a consequence of this ongoing ramp up, the GPU manufacturer attained a historic milestone today as it surpassed Intel’s (NASDAQ:INTC 58.355 0.08%) market capitalization for the first time ever.
    As of 01:07 p.m. ET, NVIDIA shares are up over 11 percent, trading at $405.82. This price level corresponds to a market capitalization of $249.63 billion. On the other hand, Intel shares are currently trading at $58.23, corresponding to a market cap of $49.63 billion.
     
    https://wccftech.com/nvidia-nasdaq-nvda-surpasses-intel-to-become-the-third-largest-semiconductor-in-the-world-by-market-cap/
     
     
    guess it's big green Now
     
     
    NVIDIA’s RTX 3000 Series ‘Ampere’ Flagship Will Have 627mm² Large Die?

     

    Keep in mind, even if this tweet turns out to be true, we are not sure at this point whether this refers to SKU10, 20 or 30. The RTX 2080 Ti had a 754mm² but was based on the 16nm process (12NFF is essentially 16nm FF with optimizations). Shifting to Samsung's 8nm process (which is basically 10nm with optimizations) should allow for a minimum 30% more density holding performance constant and accounting for a slightly increased power draw. This means you are looking at the equivalent of a 895mm² GPU as fabricated on the 12NFF process.
    https://wccftech.com/nvidia-ampere-gpu-gaming-627mm-2-die/
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/08 12:49:58


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    Sajin
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/08 13:09:49 (permalink)
    Xavier Zepherious
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) Surpasses Intel to Become the Third-Largest Semiconductor in the World by Market Cap

    :O

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    atfrico
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/08 13:56:41 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Xavier Zepherious
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) Surpasses Intel to Become the Third-Largest Semiconductor in the World by Market Cap

    :O

    Monopoly anyone? If they went after Microsoft doing the same you dont think Nvidia will be next? Fines to come you will see😼

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
     The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
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    kougar
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/08 17:53:40 (permalink)
    Wow, that's incredible. 


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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/08 20:56:20 (permalink)
    not bad for a fabless manufacturer


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    Stefem
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/10 06:40:47 (permalink)
    atfrico
    Sajin
    Xavier Zepherious
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) Surpasses Intel to Become the Third-Largest Semiconductor in the World by Market Cap

    :O

    Monopoly anyone? If they went after Microsoft doing the same you dont think Nvidia will be next? Fines to come you will see😼

    Do you know what market cap is? do you understand that AMD are in all home consoles where 99% of games are developed?
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    atfrico
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/10 10:21:29 (permalink)
    Stefem
    atfrico
    Sajin
    Xavier Zepherious
    NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) Surpasses Intel to Become the Third-Largest Semiconductor in the World by Market Cap

    :O

    Monopoly anyone? If they went after Microsoft doing the same you dont think Nvidia will be next? Fines to come you will see😼

    Do you know what market cap is? do you understand that AMD are in all home consoles where 99% of games are developed?

    Yes 🙃. This was achieved recently and has no history of monopoly and shady practices like other companies out there. I assume you knew about that right?🤔

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
     The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
    #25
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/12 12:09:02 (permalink)


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    #26
    Cool GTX
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/12 12:27:10 (permalink)
    interesting information in this thread ... we will all have to wait & see what is released
     
     
    As far as production issues ... production equipment should be 10x as accurate as the parts being made .. the "issues" are on the Mfg of the equipment mostly & the extremes they need for clean in fab mfg

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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/12 15:11:02 (permalink)

    Want to save 5 to 10% on your next EVGA purchase? Just click on the associates banner to save, or enter the associates code at checkout on your next purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
     

     
    #28
    Miguell
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/12 15:57:49 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Xavier Zepherious
    NVIDIA Ends Production of GeForce RTX 20 ‘Turing’
     
    https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-20-turing-production-end-geforce-rtx-30-ampere-gaming-graphics-card-launch-close/

    :O



    wait.... what? 
    already?  is this for real?  not a Turing fan obviously...   but
    are they really not expecting in selling more Turing gen in the next months??
     
    strange.... guess ampere must be really good... and really around the corner.... 
     

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    #29
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: NVIDIA GeForce "Ampere" GPUs Built on Samsung 8nm Instead of TSMC 7nm? 2020/07/12 16:00:24 (permalink)
    leaked info 
    rtx 30 series
    aug 17-31 - announcement
     somewhere in there
     
    released date sept 17
     
     
    rtx 20 was aug 20 and sept 20
     
    so exactly 2yrs later
     
     
     
    and expect card pricing to be high because there will be high demand
     
    seems Nvidia advised AIB partners that the mining crazing is winding up again
     
     

     
    Can't help myself  even if it might be fake  everyone needs there fix of techporn
     
    rtx 3080
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/12 16:16:33


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    #30
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