r0ach
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/09 22:35:31
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trek554
so clueless and a jerk? you dont get tearing and stuttering from hitting the TDP limit no matter how many times you repeat it. 
Not even responding to this caveman level jibberish anymore. If you think it doesn't matter even after I posted evidence that it does, you can now leave the thread and go on with your life.
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vulcZ
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 01:20:19
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Hey r0ach, thanks for the information and thanks for the modded BIOS. EVGA equipped this card (FTW) with dual-BIOS, so I'm sure they're allowing the flashing of multiple BIOS's.
I haven't seen any of the problems you have mentioned between your two threads, but admittedly I've had trouble keeping up. Mainly, it has been hard to see exactly where the problem is. But I'll admit, your passion on this topic has me curious. I read somewhere that you tested using Metro: LL, and specifically stated that you noticed the GPU clock speeds changing rapidly under high load, and that this should not be happening. I'm going to pay closer attention to what my card is doing and may very well try out your BIOS. I like my stuff working optimally, and like I said, the card has two BIOS's so why not? :)
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chrcoluk
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 07:31:19
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r0ach
trek554
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about at this point. even a card working properly will throttle in various scenarios because that is how they are designed. no one should ever see stuttering because of that unless the card is defective or there is driver issues. and screen tearing has zero to do with throttling and is only related to vsync.
Seriously are you 10 years old? I posted actual evidence of GPUZ graphs showing the gpu utilization issues where the EVGA FTW card could not hold 99% gpu utilization in Lichdom while the Gigabyte card could. The issue was fixed by raising TDP. If you for some reason think I'm lying about this also causing excess tearing and stutter, the GPU utilization issue is plain as day to see and how it was also fixed by raising TDP. It's 100% my word vs yours and I actually posted proof and you have 0 proof of anything except childish name calling. Do you own a Gigabyte 970 and an EVGA 970 to compare the two either like I did? No? didn't think so.
If you're going to tell people "they don't know what they're talking about", you should try to avoid using caveman English with no capitalization, while also starting all of your sentences with "and".
chrcoluk
my FTW gets to 1531mhz during unigine benchmarks and stays pegged there, no stutters, no jumping up and down.
So on a website with much more knowledgable people about overclocking than this one, Overclock dot net, people overclocking MSI 970's with a 220w TDP limit were getting throttling at 1500mhz, yet you want me to believe your EVGA card doesn't throttle at 1500mhz with only 187w TDP limit? I suppose it might be possible, but it would be comparing the worst binned MSI on the planet vs the best binned EVGA on the planet if true, then still probably not likely. Either that or you're using the wrong game to determine just how much power the card can draw.
My EVGA 970 FTW needs 196watts to not throttle at 1400mhz in the most graphically demanding games. I'm running an EVGA Supernova 1300w PSU with a single 970 GPU card so I'm not exactly straining my PSU here...
I guess i got lucky then, dont shoot the messenger. It doesnt goto 1531 in games, for whatever reason it only hits the rated boost speed in games, but unigine benchmarks it reaches 1531, it is reported on the top right whilst it is running I watch it during the bench to see if ti moves and it doesnt, it stays on that until I stop the bench. Ok an update both nvidia inspector and evga precision report 1405 during the unigine bench, unigine itself reports 1531, but I dont know where it gets that from. The 1405 is static tho, its not bouncing up and down plus is above the rated boost speed so I have no reason to complain.
post edited by chrcoluk - 2014/11/10 07:36:42
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MvdL79
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 07:45:29
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Thank you r0ach for the modded bios. Will give it a go for sure in my 2x EVGA GTX 970 FTW (SLI).
And just ignore the rest who complain. I do the same. They probably don't have a job and are just trying to troll around on the forums. ;-)
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painis4thaweak
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 10:54:35
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Curious to see more reports of extended use cases.
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Morphevz
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 16:14:44
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It may be wise to bring the discussion to a mutual respect level, folks. =)
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wonderboyP8NT
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 17:45:02
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r0ach,
Please keep this BIOS available to us "clueless jerks" who don't know what were talking about. We know the BIOS does not fix the TDP limit, nor does throttling cause tearing. Our game tells us that VSYNC fixes screen tearing, so thats what we believe. Some of might have stepped up from a SC to an FTW just to get more power with the additional VRMs, but we don't want our GPU usage at 100% or to overlock past 1400 anyway.
/s
Really appreciate the BIOS! I download it for when my FTW shows up. Please ignore that other guy. His posts are nothing short of hilarious at this point...
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r0ach
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 17:53:36
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Morphevz
It may be wise to bring the discussion to a mutual respect level, folks. =)
Not sure what his problem is. I posted factual, objective data showing what the effect of the low TDP limit and throttling and he just spams constant caveman level English while ignoring the data. Here's two of the graphs for anyone that missed it while testing using a game called Lichdom. The first is the card with every setting at default. You can see in the chart how GPU utilization was more often than not sitting at 98% while constantly pinging up and down from there:  Next picture nothing is changed except maxing TDP slider to 110% and magically the card can now hold 99% gpu utilization most of the time, but the problem still isn't solved completely:  Then after flashing to fix the BIOS TDP problem completely, the card can now hold a solid 99% gpu utilization without the excessive throttling, tearing, and stutter seen on stock BIOS:  People posting caveman level English insults at objective, factual data that can't be debunked should be banned from the forum.
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NordicJedi
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 18:12:48
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Removed a post here for personal attacks. Let's move on, and keep things civil from hereon.
Thanks!
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chrcoluk
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 18:12:56
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Actually I use vsync, I find tearing really annoying, adaptive vsync mode will stop it jumping between 30 and 60fps. Also modern hardware is designed to vary its clock speed, it wont cause stuttering, unless its faulty. By faulty I mean bad drivers, bad chips or whatever.
post edited by rjohnson11 - 2014/11/11 00:16:12
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wonderboyP8NT
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 18:22:00
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he does not comprehended anything. he will never get through his head that hitting the TDP does not cause stuttering or increase tearing.
Why do you care what he thinks? Are you like a missionary for the church of VSYNC or something?
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mrblue81
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 20:01:32
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Maybe you didnt see my post over on overclock.net.  This is what I see after flashing your BIOS. TDP hovers around 78-82% but doesnt go much higher, and the card is still capped out on power. If your BIOS worked wouldnt it be able to go to 100% without capping? Anyone know of any BIOS that are out that can help stabilize clocks? Some games it runs fine at 1513mhz, but more demanding games it tends to clock down to 1420-1440.
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vulcZ
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 23:33:07
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mrblue81
Maybe you didnt see my post over on overclock.net.
This is what I see after flashing your BIOS. TDP hovers around 78-82% but doesnt go much higher, and the card is still capped out on power. If your BIOS worked wouldnt it be able to go to 100% without capping?
Anyone know of any BIOS that are out that can help stabilize clocks? Some games it runs fine at 1513mhz, but more demanding games it tends to clock down to 1420-1440.
Then I believe his BIOS is working as it should. Remember his BIOS increases the TDP cap (220w, I believe from stock 170w). If your test wasn't TDP-limited then it's normal for your to see a lower TDP usage with his new BIOS. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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MvdL79
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/10 23:50:47
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vulcZ
mrblue81
Maybe you didnt see my post over on overclock.net.
This is what I see after flashing your BIOS. TDP hovers around 78-82% but doesnt go much higher, and the card is still capped out on power. If your BIOS worked wouldnt it be able to go to 100% without capping?
Anyone know of any BIOS that are out that can help stabilize clocks? Some games it runs fine at 1513mhz, but more demanding games it tends to clock down to 1420-1440.
Then I believe his BIOS is working as it should. Remember his BIOS increases the TDP cap (220w, I believe from stock 170w). If your test wasn't TDP-limited then it's normal for your to see a lower TDP usage with his new BIOS.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
That does make sense actually, even to me. You increased the max, so the "buffer" in between will increase. But guess, someone with more knowledge and skills should confirm this, other than someone like me. :P
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rjohnson11
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 00:18:14
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After a warning more comments have been made in an attacking manner. This is the last notice in this thread the mods will give out. If the attacking continues regardless of who started it warnings will be issued.
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mrblue81
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 06:35:24
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Maybe I don't understand fully, but why would I still be throttling due to power if I was only using 80% of TDP?
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vulcZ
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 08:16:33
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mrblue81
Maybe I don't understand fully, but why would I still be throttling due to power if I was only using 80% of TDP?
Well I don't think that's considered throttling. It seems to be staying at 1455.1mhz, which is well above the rated boost clock of 1367mhz. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe throttling is when a card goes below it's rated speeds due to power/heat. Why some games allow it to go above 1455 while others don't might be another question entirely. Perhaps one more related to how boost 2.0 works. Again, if I'm wrong someone please correct me. I'm still learning also :)
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mrblue81
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 09:25:10
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It says power is the reason for performance being capped. It CAN boost up to 1510, but only in low gpu usage situations, it seems to be wanting more power to boost up to its top clocks but it doesnt have that power available despite it saying its not even close to max TDP. I feel like there is something funky going on with this BIOS unless I am completely understanding this wrong.
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thebski
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 10:47:56
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Not to pile on here, but throttling would never cause lower GPU usage. It would have the opposite affect. If a card down clocks due to reaching power limits then the card is effectively slower which would raise the GPU usage given the same work load.
Anyways, carry on.
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bain64
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 11:07:21
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thebski
Not to pile on here, but throttling would never cause lower GPU usage. It would have the opposite affect. If a card down clocks due to reaching power limits then the card is effectively slower which would raise the GPU usage given the same work load.
Anyways, carry on.
In theory I would agree that should be the case, but it appears that when reaching the TDP limit (and the subsequent downclock) there is a spike downward in GPU usage (dropping frames?) before it quickly recovers. This is just my view from looking at my card, not claiming to have done any kind of large scale testing. mrblue81
TDP hovers around 78-82% but doesnt go much higher, and the card is still capped out on power. If your BIOS worked wouldnt it be able to go to 100% without capping?
What game or benchmark are you running to trigger the "PerfCap Reason: PWR" ? I have not triggered that event, in games or 3dmark. Does that have to be added to the list of sensor logs?
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mrblue81
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 11:13:09
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Happens in almost anything I run. When I took that screenshot I was running valley. From what I'm experiencing it feels like the TDP has been raised but the card thinks the old power limits are still in place, so when it reaches the old limit it starts to downclock because it doesnt think any more power is available. I've never had this issue on any of my past cards (gigabyte 670/780 and evga reference 780ti).
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bain64
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 11:17:18
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mrblue81
Happens in almost anything I run. When I took that screenshot I was running valley. From what I'm experiencing it feels like the TDP has been raised but the card thinks the old power limits are still in place, so when it reaches the old limit it starts to downclock because it doesnt think any more power is available. I've never had this issue on any of my past cards (gigabyte 670/780 and evga reference 780ti).
Do you have the 970FTW? Did your power consumption graph drop from near 100% before the bios change, to the current screenshot you show after bios change? If you change the bios switch back to one of the default ones, do you still get the perfcap reason? Does your power consumption % go back up to near max?
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thebski
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 11:51:09
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bain64
In theory I would agree that should be the case, but it appears that when reaching the TDP limit (and the subsequent downclock) there is a spike downward in GPU usage (dropping frames?) before it quickly recovers. This is just my view from looking at my card, not claiming to have done any kind of large scale testing.
That's pretty strange. Sounds like a boost/driver issue. I guess the workaround would be to raise the TDP then.
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mrblue81
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 11:59:03
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bain64
Do you have the 970FTW? Did your power consumption graph drop from near 100% before the bios change, to the current screenshot you show after bios change?
If you change the bios switch back to one of the default ones, do you still get the perfcap reason? Does your power consumption % go back up to near max?
Yeah I have a 970FTW, with the stock BIOS I see 100-105% TDP and the same power cap. 
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bain64
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 12:46:35
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mrblue81
Yeah I have a 970FTW, with the stock BIOS I see 100-105% TDP and the same power cap.
Strange, I cannot reproduce on my end. Is anyone else getting the "Perfcap Reason: PWR" under any circumstances with stock or modded bios?
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Morphevz
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 12:52:33
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bain64
Strange, I cannot reproduce on my end. Is anyone else getting the "Perfcap Reason: PWR" under any circumstances with stock or modded bios?
I also don't get it with either of my GTX 970 FTW. I was thinking it could have something to do with the CPU / mobo chipset in place. I'm running i7 920 on X58 platform. [Edit: Stock FTW BIOS].
post edited by Morphevz - 2014/11/11 13:13:23
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ManBearPig
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 13:09:56
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bain64
mrblue81
Yeah I have a 970FTW, with the stock BIOS I see 100-105% TDP and the same power cap.
Strange, I cannot reproduce on my end. Is anyone else getting the "Perfcap Reason: PWR" under any circumstances with stock or modded bios?
I have a 970 FTW and can reproduce this. (using this modded BIOS)    I ran 3DMark Fire Strike and the highest power consumption it would allow me was 89%, when I was running the stock BIOS, it would do the same thing, except say I was at 105-110%. It shows the green being Perfcap Reason: PWR; but then I also have for a small portion it being yellow and blue and the Perfcap Reason: VRel and VOp. I am running into the same problem mrblue81 is having. It shows in GPUZ that the limit was raised, but it won't actually use anymore of the extra power, still uses the same amount and still hits a limit.
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vulcZ
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 15:12:15
(permalink)
This is a very interesting conversation, and I'm very curious to see if a solution is ever actually found.
I'm not going to lie though, it is kind of looking like one of those situations where maybe we should also just tell ourselves "man who gives a rip! Let's just enjoy our games!" :)
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 15:20:37
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I never understood the color reasoning behind the perfcap, so now I am super curious as well.
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novice01
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Re: Modded BIOS to fix 970 FTW severe throttling issues w/ link
2014/11/11 16:55:45
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I said it before and ill say it again thanks for TDP limit off for 970gtx FTW card. Looking at afterburner my TDP limit doesn't go above 109% during firestrike at 1505 mhz and 8000 mhz anymore. It used to be 114% with 110% (max) power limit. I'm not sure how much it throttled back before, but now it seems vga works much smoother. Before I OC'ed it to 1505 mhz, my clocks were at 1480 core and 8000 memory my graphics score on firestrike was 12987 and after this BIOS flash it was 13057. Right now at 1505 and 8000 graphics score is 13239, so to ppl who doubt about TDP limits and tearing and stuff in certain games, there has to be some validity to ROACH's work and if there was no difference in real gaming, at least synthetic benchmarks get better graphics numbers. Very happy with bios flash.
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