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Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters)

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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 07:02:36 (permalink)
Actually I'm looking at a 780 now to replace one of my 670's which will go into my portable Photoshop setup for when I do craft booths (create on demand mugs, etc.).  I'll keep one 670 as a Physx card and upgrade it to another 780 sometime this year.  (Not worried about the unannounced 800 series just yet.)
 
Only one grandkid so far and he's 2 but he loves knobs, dials and keyboards already.  Just like my son loved to sit in my lap and play Sticky Bear Bop on an Apple ][.
 
Guess I'll just go buy another PS2 keyboard today and reload Linux and leave it running... *sigh*. 
 
(Runs home and starts to play Deadpool...)


 
mdk7777777
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 07:04:27 (permalink)
So today they show 171,493 active CPU on the folding stats page (which they still are not updating to the front page for whatever reason)
 
The more interesting number is the number of active donors.
 
Kakostats lists this as 33,891
 
For reference, the last time I checked (a year or so ago, it was something like 60,000)
digging a little further, it shows my team AMDZONE as having 27 active members.
But looking at Extreme OC stats (Which I have always followed) shows only 17 active members.
 
So, the difference must be how many days they use to consider active.
 
Flipping through the pages of 24 hour averages at Extreme OC ...I come up with 14,000 donors with a 24 hour daily average of 30 points or more.
 
My point? There are currently only something like 20,000 active donors.
 
When you go from something close to 500,000 active donors at the peak some years ago, to 20,000...you are just not doing something right.
 
When I point this out, 7im launches into a rant about how you can not attribute the reduction to administration...there are so many variables...etc. etc.
 
Well, at the end of the day...someone better figure out how to reverse the trend, or all those extra labs that keep joining...thinking they can tap into the resource will find that there is nothing to tap into.
 
Sorto****eek, says lets move on, nothing to see here...He is right. If PG doesn't respond with anything but cancelling projects that they failed to administer...there will indeed be nothing to see or comment on.
texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 08:01:09 (permalink)
That is very eye-opening Mdk and I would think should have been a "wake-up" call long before now for the leadership at PG.  It makes me wonder if maybe they have an alternate plan in the works with that large a decline in donors.  It would certainly be logical to be exploring other vehicles of computing power if the donor-base has declined to such a low population.  Someone recently suggested that PG should take the Folding application over to BOINC to get more exposure and participants.  I don't know the technical details of if that could be done.  But, looking at your information (and what we all have recently seen in the stats) I'd think they need to do something to increase donor-ship and do it quick.



Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 09:11:53 (permalink)
mdk7777777
 
My point? There are currently only something like 20,000 active donors.
 
When you go from something close to 500,000 active donors at the peak some years ago, to 20,000...you are just not doing something right.


Where are you getting the 500k active donors figure from?
 
One thing I don't fully understand is why PG has never done any real advertising.  Relying on word-of-mouth will only take you so far, especially if you keep angering a good portion of your most dedicated and vocal supporters.  I guess in the past they weren't entirely comfortable with having a huge influx of non-tech-savvy people using some of the clients, but v7's main goal was being easier to use by new donors.  That "Even while you sleep" video hasn't exactly been a viral sensation.


 
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 09:32:08 (permalink)
The thread at FF has been locked and the last reply by Grandpa edited by a mod... I got a chance to read it before it was edited and Grandpa had said he has taken to taking machines off line due to the discourteous nature of the FF folks. 
 
I suppose this is FF's way of saying we are above listening to you.  Go away and fold like good little losers.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 09:42:56 (permalink)
mdk7777777
Sorto****eek, says lets move on, nothing to see here...He is right. If PG doesn't respond with anything but cancelling projects that they failed to administer...there will indeed be nothing to see or comment on.



He has already locked the Bigadv thread and is apparently in process of removing anything that he doesn't like under the banner of it being "off topic".  He's already nailed some of my comments and got Grandpa too.  He said the thread "was a dead horse", but his follow-on actions also indicate that he wants the tombstone at the horse's gravesite to read the way that he wants it to read. 
 
They are often defending themselves as not censoring comments from FF members...well, I just saw it in action.  I've finally come to the conclusion that FF is not a site that will get any future commentary, ideas or suggestion from me.  The Mods and some of those they seem to allow free-commentary-reign are just too militant and defensive.  Just too over-protective of PG IMO, discourteous in the way they answer Folders who post there and so, what else is new there.



Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 09:53:57 (permalink)
I really would like to see FAH take a hit for this... I'm all up for calling a strike during March Madness and try to get everyone still folding to cease for the entire month as a form of silent protest due to this censorship and lack of communication.  I'll just keep dreaming it will happen though... I know it won't.


 
yodap
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 10:10:33 (permalink)
We always talk about the addiction folding is and I've experienced it myself but when it comes right down to it, I doubt there would a lot of cold sweats here if we were to kick for a while. But then again, we have medicine (crunching) to help us through!


 

 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 10:14:46 (permalink)
I do not believe  that this is the end of FAH, but I have  a "feeling" that we are about to see them take a new direction in how they do business. Agree completely that something needs to be done at FF and the lack of respect there makes you enjoy forums like this one, even more.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 10:18:43 (permalink)
Oh it's  not the end I agree... however I really would like to be part of a major speed bump with some severe under carriage damage at this point!  Just saying... sometimes it's just fun to toss a revolution in the center of a group of bielebers... er, Fahlebers.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 10:26:19 (permalink)
yodap
We always talk about the addiction folding is and I've experienced it myself but when it comes right down to it, I doubt there would a lot of cold sweats here if we were to kick for a while. But then again, we have medicine (crunching) to help us through!


My 4P's have been crunching along and supplying heat during this cold snap. Have not folded since bucks and will return for bucks next week. No problems not folding for an entire month. Crunching does a body good.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
mdk7777777
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:16:44 (permalink)
Where are you getting the 500k active donors figure from?
 
Before they changed the stats reporting system.

 
2011 there were 450k to 500k individual machines...obviously, there could have been more than one machine per donor...but it wasn't anything close to the system they use today.
mdk7777777
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:18:56 (permalink)
can't post links yet....look at the thread in general...Overall Stats Graph? and look at the first post for the old graph before current revision.
 
even edits out the abbreviation for folding at home...strict language censor eh?
post edited by mdk7777777 - 2014/01/28 13:20:29
Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:26:53 (permalink)
Anti-spam device... you can type things out to a degree... try to point one of us in the right direction and maybe we can post the correct one.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:41:19 (permalink)
yeah, that is what I tried:
FF
General Discussions
Discussions of General FAH topics
middle of page
Overall folding at home Stats Graph?
first post links to a google doc graph.
 
But anyway, my post on FF on this topic was deleted and now I am banned from posting on FF.
 
It appears that reason, detailed research, and speaking the truth on a topic are forbidden.
Mod. indicates that it was off topic...I don't see anything that was off the topic of reduced donor count.
But it appears that a new enhanced method of censorship has been approved.
 
Good luck all.
 
 
 
 
Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:48:10 (permalink)
Yup... caught that over at [H]... I'm certain the fall out will be continuing for a long time.  They really went out of their way to marginalize those that disagree with them... but they still want you to fold.  Just shut up and do it. 
 
You mean this:
 
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21317
 

 
The link there is abbreviated so I had to post the URL of the actual post you referenced.
post edited by Viper97 - 2014/01/28 13:51:45


 
Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:50:03 (permalink)
mdk7777777
Where are you getting the 500k active donors figure from?
 
Before they changed the stats reporting system.
 
 
2011 there were 450k to 500k individual machines...obviously, there could have been more than one machine per donor...but it wasn't anything close to the system they use today.


In that case, saying the project has gone from 500k to 20k active donors is not accurate, since the 500k figure was total clients.  It is fair to say that it's gone from 500k to 170k active clients, or your estimate of 60k to 34k active donors based on Kakao's count, or <X> to 14k based on EOC.  I think this situation is rather troubling, but it's not as drastic as you made it out to be.  We're not actually talking an entire order of magnitude drop.


 
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Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:53:10 (permalink)
Zagen30
mdk7777777
Where are you getting the 500k active donors figure from?
 
Before they changed the stats reporting system.
 
 
2011 there were 450k to 500k individual machines...obviously, there could have been more than one machine per donor...but it wasn't anything close to the system they use today.


In that case, saying the project has gone from 500k to 20k active donors is not accurate, since the 500k figure was total clients.  It is fair to say that it's gone from 500k to 170k active clients, or your estimate of 60k to 34k active donors based on Kakao's count, or <X> to 14k based on EOC.  I think this situation is rather troubling, but it's not as drastic as you made it out to be.  We're not actually talking an entire order of magnitude drop.




Or you could say they recognized the drop and decided that the next best figure would now be the reported figure.  Just playing devils advocate and conspiracy theory genator. 
***Logic overlay not installed***


 
Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:55:12 (permalink)
Wow... I just read that one and went I wonder  how long before it gets busted... guess not long!  Paranoia runs deep now at FAH and I think they realize the PR war was just lost and all they can do is remove the evidence.


 
Zagen30
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:56:58 (permalink)
Viper97
 
 
Or you could say they recognized the drop and decided that the next best figure would now be the reported figure.  Just playing devils advocate and conspiracy theory genator. 
 

As far back as I can remember (which is several years), PG has always reported active clients.


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 13:57:54 (permalink)
I just wrote an email to VJ to speak about what happened today (including your being banned Mdk).  I wanted to at least use the member vehicle (before I am banned myself) to send VJ a message about my deep concerns over how the FF is being run/managed.  IMO. they need to do some serious house-cleaning over there and I shared that with VJ too.  Probably won't amount to anything.  But, after seeing that Site Admin in action that banned you today, I came away with a much deeper understanding of why people so often complain about how that forum is managed.  There is so much illness over there, I can hardly believe that it can be (will be) cured.



Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 14:03:42 (permalink)
Maybe we should start a new DC team... Crunching for FAH.... where we dedicate our CPU's to finding a cure for their disease?


 
cokeman54
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 14:06:18 (permalink)
Viper97
Maybe we should start a new DC team... Crunching for FAH.... where we dedicate our CPU's to finding a cure for their disease?


You can't cure (stupid)


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
texinga
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 14:49:36 (permalink)
She is a "piece of work" Bill and will whack your knuckles if need be (even if need not be...just for good measure). 
 
She tried to "take me to school" today too, but I resisted (a lot). 



Viper97
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 14:53:08 (permalink)
The problem is when people need to defend the monarchy from a revolution they do so instinctively and without fore thought as to the consequences.  Hence in their simple reaction they cause an equal but opposite reaction more revolutionaries.
 
 


 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 14:59:22 (permalink)
n that case, saying the project has gone from 500k to 20k active donors is not accurate, since the 500k figure was total clients.  It is fair to say that it's gone from 500k to 170k active clients, or your estimate of 60k to 34k active donors based on Kakao's count, or <X> to 14k based on EOC.  I think this situation is rather troubling, but it's not as drastic as you made it out to be.  We're not actually talking an entire order of magnitude drop.
 
Yup, I gave all the sources and variables to make it clear there were different interpretations and criteria.
 
Unlike, the FF, I don't have any problem defending my posts...the major change came about a year ago where they adjusted the core count and total TFLOPS....which resulted in an immediate and substantial change requiring a totally new data base and chart later in that thread.
 
anyway, based on the 50 day reporting...rather than current average points...I'd guess that that 170k number is rather inflated...again my point of listing other sources.
 
 
 
 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 15:06:44 (permalink)
regarding sorto****eek:
 
The irony is that she is doing exactly the opposite of what Dr. Panda promised was going to happen in his post.
 
How is the improvement in communication, the discussion of changes going forward ,going to happen in a closed thread, and with banned donors?
 
I guess she goes to the Stalin school of problem solving.
 
"Man are always having problems. No man, no problem."
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 15:19:07 (permalink)
anyway, based on the 50 day reporting...rather than current average points...I'd guess that that 170k number is rather inflated...again my point of listing other sources.
Kinda makes you wonder why the (50 days) almost two months. This will always show the buck folders as active when in fact they drop off fast. Welcome the a friendly forum mdk777777, enjoy your stay and if you haven't already, consider crunching.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 15:27:17 (permalink)
Y'all are now learning what I have known "censorship runs deep at FF" for many many years.
I had been folding for just over 10 years this past November and have seen many things in
those 10 years this is nothing new to me but I have reached my limit of tolerance level and will move on to newer things.
Addiction ran deep but I am finally cured and freed from this Fah Addiction. Peace out!
 

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Re: Major bigadv change (death of the ankle biters) 2014/01/28 15:49:09 (permalink)
I do want to report that Dr. Pande has responded to me and we are still in kind of a back-and-forth discussion of the concerns that I sent him today.  I'll share something he said to me that I feel he won't mind me sharing here. 
 
I had mentioned to him that surely I wasn't the first person to raise an issue with the way the FF forum is being managed. He said that in the past year, he has received (2) communications from Folders such as myself today.  But when he asked for details of the event that was being raised, he never got anything more.  He didn't know what to actually make of that, but was concerned as to why.  If anyone else has a specific issue they want/need to share with him, I would suggest that you communicate it to him.  If (2) people was all that raised these issues in a year, that is not a whole lot.  I really do get the sense that he wants to know and hear from us.  I also get the impression that he is savvy enough as a manager to know that sometimes important things are happening that are outside his immediate view.  Just wanted to share this with you.



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