Unless I'm reading VJ's message incorrectly, I think the verdict is there and will not change (at least in regard to Bigadv Folding).  I saw nothing that told me they are reconsidering their position on their policy toward Bigadv.  They have a problem, too much Bigadv Folding going on and too little attention on SMP because of it.  The solution is to proceed as planned to thin-the-herd on Bigadv and keep it to 5% (or less).  From VJ's explanation, they have to do it and I have every confidence that they will do it.  The changes that I think they may make would have to do with clearer communication and expectation setting going forward.

texinga
Unless I'm reading VJ's message incorrectly, I think the verdict is there and will not change (at least in regard to Bigadv Folding).  I saw nothing that told me they are reconsidering their position on their policy toward Bigadv.  They have a problem, too much Bigadv Folding going on and too little attention on SMP because of it.  The solution is to proceed as planned to thin-the-herd on Bigadv and keep it to 5% (or less).  From VJ's explanation, they have to do it and I have every confidence that they will do it.  The changes that I think they may make would have to do with clearer communication and expectation setting going forward.

Have to and want to are very different levels of conversation.  They want only the top 5% to be Bigadv.  They have more than that.  They should just take it and roll with it.

texinga

ArtyD42

texinga
Unless I'm reading VJ's message incorrectly, I think the verdict is there and will not change (at least in regard to Bigadv Folding).  I saw nothing that told me they are reconsidering their position on their policy toward Bigadv.  They have a problem, too much Bigadv Folding going on and too little attention on SMP because of it.  The solution is to proceed as planned to thin-the-herd on Bigadv and keep it to 5% (or less).  From VJ's explanation, they have to do it and I have every confidence that they will do it.  The changes that I think they may make would have to do with clearer communication and expectation setting going forward.

Have to and want to are very different levels of conversation.  They want only the top 5% to be Bigadv.  They have more than that.  They should just take it and roll with it.

I may have read it differently, but came away with the clear impression that VJ feels this is something that has to be done (and will be done).  Even if you saw Kasson's posts, he essentially said the Bigadv changes will go forward.  I think they believe (whether we like it or not) that the project has to make these changes to reduce Bigadv Folding rigs.

And that would be their great failure.  You've got more donors than you can handle.  Rather than increase production to handle more donors you throw some out the door.  I know a few businesses that would lose all their customers doing that.  The one I work for is one of them.  You don't turn away people just because you didn't want that many.  You increase your ability to serve them asap.

I think its already to the point that many are just tiered of PG and the way they have been treated and no matter what happens they will not be back.
They're just over it, there are other DC projects with less demands, headaches and better support for donors they can move to with less stress and still do the same "Help find cures".
Its past time FaH realized there not the only game in town.

bill1024
Looks like we need EVGA to buil a MB like the SR-2 for the new xeon 10/20 cpus!!!!!
40 core 80 threads overclocked to 5ghz.

+1 to this, although what is the point is Vijay just keeps upping core counts? I really wanted to break into the top 100 but I think it is time to move on to bigger and better pastures.

TheWolf
I think its already to the point that many are just tiered of PG and the way they have been treated and no matter what happens they will not be back.
They're just over it, there are other DC projects with less demands, headaches and better support for donors they can move to with less stress and still do the same "Help find cures".
Its past time FaH realized there not the only game in town.

 
What I think is silly is this.
 
You have Brilliant minds that have not figured out the very basic thing my father taught me when I was a child. You use tools to do the work for you. Use the right tool for the job and don't use a lot of force if you are using the right tool.
 
The point system is the tool. The numbers them selves have no real value. Not to us, not to them. If they are getting too much of one type of work done, you simply increase the points on the ones you want done.
 
Its not rocket science guys its simple supply and demand economics.
 
Everything the community does around folding is really irreverent to the project other than it helps keep interest in the project.
 
We all know what happens when you use the wrong tool and try to force it to work.
You can strip the threads or break the head off and likely damage the tool.
 
You don't say, ohh this eyeglass screwdriver is not doing what I want, so I am going to throw it away and wait for someone to bring me a bigger screwdriver.
 
 Especially when you are relying on donations to get the supplies you need.
 
My father had a saying for that too, "It was don't cut your nose off to spite your face."

jinihammerer
What I think is silly is this.
 
You have Brilliant minds that have not figured out the very basic thing my father taught me when I was a child.

ArtyD42

cokeman54

ArtyD42

Viper97
Actually 220,854 as of this morning.  There has been a steady loss of over 4K machines since Thursday of last week.  Not a good sign.

220463 at the time I checked.  This is the beginning of the freefall.

219,000 on 01/07/2014 10:54 CST and dropping like a rock.

218,735 1/8/2014 2AM CST.

The hand has been bitten.  As of right now... 1/13/2014 the machine count is:  193,467.  That's a sizeable drop (albeit there is up and down fluction at any given update) of 25K machines?  Scary.

Actually in that post the numbers... (and I did that count of the top of my head) and now backed up by the super powerful software based calculator proved free by Microsoft as:  27387.
 
So yeah... 27K or 270K... not sure if this is the beta calculator

If we are talking about the 'all time high' number of folding machines online... than yes... 250K is a good figure... I'm merely referring to the 224K number from about 7 days ago (that I pulled from the stats page over on the FAH site).
 
Still it's interesting that another 1/10th have dropped out (roughly) from when I started the death knell count. 
 
Now if we compare the all time high here: http://forums.evga.com/tm...8&mpage=15 in mid 2013 with todays count then yes 250K machines in 6 months.  Still interesting in my books.

Regarding the daily-drop of the Active CPUs, it isn't likely associated with this latest Bigadv situation, yes?  For as much as we talk about it here and in just a couple other Team forums, I hafta expect that the masses of Folders are oblivious to this topic.  That would leave the decline (largely) as a result of something else (understanding that these numbers are suspect as to their actual indication of "active").  If we are just watching Linux Active CPUs, then I'd come closer to thinking that the decline is from the subject at hand.

Wolf, I was just thinking that if you counted the amount of people that are vocalizing dislikes, it is such a small fraction of Folders worldwide.  Like counting a handful of people vs a city-full.  I also know about the old customer adage that for every person that takes time to complain, 100 more just go away silently.  I've seen that one to be true in business.  I was just thinking that the outcry at FF would have been much greater than just a fraction of people on two teams (HardOCP and EVGA).  Just seems small to me compared to the daily reduction in "active" CPUs that we are tracking in this thread.  I don't claim to know anything, just thinkin' out loud...

Wolf, I took no disrespect either, just noodlin' with ya.  In the graphs that I did (and shared here) from these numbers, the most recent decline in "active CPUs" began in October 2013.  Understanding the 50-day window thing, it could have began back in September.  I'm not claiming that graphing those various numbers is really accurate either, but it is all I had.  So taking that into account, it would appear that problems with "activity" began well before this announcement.  It could be an indicator of people moving off CPU Folding to GPU solutions, people being unhappy, the economy, aliens stealing Folding gear, fear of Sasquatch, etc. 

We can say one thing... the problem has been going on for quite a bit longer than just the current announcement.  Second the fallout from those leaving  PG and folding has yet to be felt and won't for another three-four weeks.
 
That said, I'm certain it's not an increase in GPU's as I thought I read that PG counts those as a machine.  So CPU's and GPU's are each valued as 1.
 
The problem is that a lot of folks are bitcoin (or another coining op) lately.  There's been a noteable uptick in interest there over the last six months.  I'm sure the guy who bought the Ferrari (or whatever car) with bitcoin money probably helped peak the interest.
 
There are the more obvious things also, loss of interest (IE... it was fun for a while), electrical costs, wear and tear on machines etc.
 
Yet... there has been an interesting rise in interest in other DC projects also, so without a baseline of information (numbers) it's hard to draw a conclusion other than multiple factors are now playing out and it's not helping PG.

 (as of today) 193,288 others contribute to finding cures for some of life’s most threatening illnesses. This is the number in question and if you click on it, you get a breakdown. The important part is "(as of today)" this is the changing number that declines with each update. "IF" they count each core as an "other" then take into consideration the number of 4P's shut down or moved to other DC projects, then this decline makes sense since that announcement. This number has gone up and down in the past but not on a scale of the magnitude that it is now doing. It has got their attention but response was not what everyone wanted to hear. The thread at FF is now 41 pages and this thread is 18 pages, 4 weeks later, and no major changes from PG (except more blog posts +1).