I have continued communicating with Dr. Pande and can see that he is genuinely making every attempt to respond to each of my replies.  But, I feel that he is so removed from what is actually happening in the FF, that it is difficult for him to get a grip on it.  He recognizes that members have issues with certain people that either Moderate or contribute in the FF.  But he lacks direct knowledge of what is going on.  From his most recent reply, I get the feeling that he basically has to trust his Mods to do their work in accordance with the way that he (and they) want to see the forum run.  That includes expecting people to adhere to forum rules and even limit threads when they become repetitious or too long. 
 
I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is coming into what happened yesterday (and other occasions) as a 3rd party.  However, I did share with him (in a rather lengthy reply) all the chronic concerns that I have with the FF.  I shared that I feel the FF is being run like a business where the owner isn't paying close enough attention to daily operation.  If you have ever run a business, you know that is a recipe for surprise at some point and going out of business.  I know that some are thinking "we'll the FF isn't Vijay's business...his business is working the science", and I have to agree.  So, I'm not saying that he personally needs to run the FF day to day.  But those he has in charge are allowing that segment that affects his business to degenerate into a place that donors don't want to visit.
 
I won't go into all of it here, but I do have serious belief that in addition to that "donor liason", he also needs someone to closely manage those that basically run the FF.  I believe (as Viper just shared) that instead of donors and Mods coming together (as they do right here every day), there is enmity between Mods and donors at the FF. That will require Vijay to intervene and do some resetting of expectations with his Mods as to how donors should be treated there IMO.
 
Continue to talk with him if you are doing so because he does need the help and hopefully will find a way to make the FF a better place for donors to participate.  It can be done, but not without addressing the chronic issues.

Well, just as a final update:
VJ has responded to my emails.
He is polite and has responded. However, it is clear that he supports the mod. and thinks the time had come to squash debate. I think there is a fiction that he is so far removed from the FF.
We agree to disagree. As a Mod., When I saw many lifetime/legacy members continuing to post in an articulate manner (granpa01 and others)... I would have taken this as an obvious sign that issues were not yet resolved. I would have seen it as my mission to facilitate the discussion. I would have perhaps closed the BA thread, but opened other new ones at the same time to continue dialogue on unresolved issues.
The problem is of course that VJ does not intend to follow-up on theses issues mentioned in his two posts(at least not in any near term)
Consequently, doing the obvious customer service, damage control remediation would be counter-productive. Allowing the discussion to continue(in any form) would only serve as a continual reminder that the promises he made were not yet being implemented. I see the conflict. Will he get around to making changes eventually? One can hope. In the short term, does he support and condone the FF attempting to expunge rather than resolve...unfortunately the answer is Yes.
 
It all follows from this simple question:
What is the mission of the FF?
 
If you answer, "To help donors"; then you proceed with a certain tact, a certain core belief structure.
 
however, if you answer, "To serve the Folding institution" well, then you have set up the adversarial dynamic we have all experienced.
 
The difference between these two answers might be subtle or semantic in some peoples' view. I think the difference is critical.
 
I don't think anything I have said over the many years has convinced VJ that the first answer is perquisite for success and the second is guaranteed recipe for failure. Hence, since we cannot agree on this first principle, we really have no basis for future communication. Should I be banned? If you are tired of hearing about how you should treat donors with respect and consideration...It was a pretty logical move.

Had I seen this I'd be even less inclined to have joined:
 
Not firm rules as such, but guidelines for forum users:

If you post here, you must live with any edits, deletions or other moderator actions without public complaint. We are a MODERATED forum, not a FREE SPEECH forum. Private complaints may be addressed via PM to the Mod or Admin.
 
That says it all to me... this is the same page Troy pointed to.  It was written by Bruce.  In otherwords free speech is not supported but supported speech is. 
 
Explains much to me and as such it also points me away from contributing.  Who in their right mind would accept this sort of behavior of edits, deletions or other moderator actions if what was posted was not offensive?  Everything I saw that was deleted in the last day was civil.  What I did see is deletion of posts where folks were slowly turning their machines off or repurposing them in protest to this sort of behavior.
 
What this means to me is that the responses by donors to their treatment at the hands of FF and FAH is not acceptable by FF or FAH and is determined to be abborhent behavior and therefore censurable.  It's no wonder folks are revisiting and rethinking their investment and time.
 
Granted the EVGA forum is moderated and free speech is encouraged as long as it is civil and not inflammatory.  Politics are prohibited and for good reason, it often leads to callous remarks.  Yes language that is considered less than civilized is prohibited but that's normal.  I consider that a professional courtesy - a civilized discourse. 
 
I do consider censoring of ones thoughts that are civil and merely a pointed fact as to how that poster is reacting to be an act of retaliation for not blindly following the path laid out before them.  Punishing people for their beliefs does little other than make that person stronger in their resolution and provide their support web all the fodder they need to shine a light on the offending action.
 
Great way to build a revolution, denounce and censure one and when word gets out you create more followers of the one you denounced.
 
 
 
 

Eh.. the way I see it they are creating martyrs.  Problem is I don't think there's going to be any virgins waiting for them.  (Maybe some EVGA products and an overclocking guide but that's another dream.)
 

Not a good idea BC... you saw what happened and the reaction to that event here.  Many things need to be vented and this thread will die eventually but of natural causes not because someone requested they remove life support. 
 
To ask for termination of this thread is closely akin to saying "I've declared the grieving process over because I cannot allow you to continue to butt heads against overwhelming odds."
 
Sometimes we fight with the weapons we have available.  Change isn't neccessarily bad  it does become bad when change stops.
 
I call that the status quo.  Or "Have a nice same day".
 

This was a point that I shared with Dr. Pande about shutting down the Bigadv thread the way it was done yesterday.  I told him that even though it was 47 pages long, if your donors are still trying to talk to you, it could be worth listening to them. 
 
The FF Mod yesterday decided to shut down conversation without even the polite consideration of talking with the people that were still taking time to post.  I also mentioned to Vijay, that had she read back a page or two, she would have understood why in the heck people were still talking in that thread.  But rather than take a breath and consider the situation, she decided to enact the hard rules, shut down conversation and then proceeded to edit people's posts that she felt were "disrespectful" of herself.  Last time I checked, (in civilian thinking) respect is earned not commanded.  Since she was largely vacant from that entire discussion, it would have made sense for her (to me) to throttle-down the Mod-ego a bit and think on why people were still there.

Yes, I really could do the same Viper because in reality I'm only using the FF as a vehicle to communicate direct to Dr. Pande.  With that conversation winding down, I don't really have a need of a FF membership.

Actually I would never blame you for that request... it would be my decision and a decision I can accept.  If it takes a ban then so be it.  I have no desire to place false blames on others... just the ones they deserve.  Besides this is a record now...

Hey Bruce,
Please pass on my warmest regards to sort of a geek!
I still am waiting for those forwarded emails from donors embracing the enhanced methods.
Sure, these things take time. No rush.
Best regards,
mdk777
 

Stanford can track by passkey what a individual folded- so that's not the issue 
they can also track the actual WU's you do (and do stats on that if they wish)
it's what they are willing to do to revamp their files and the way they disseminate information
id like to see something so we can keep track as individuals what WU's we did and the failures as well
 
stanford however can not release passkeys either(privacy...and unauthorized use) - so stats by passkey are not going to happen - unless Stanford wants to do what EOC or [H] or Kakoa or other stats sites and get everyone else out
 

so p5-133xl just posted:
 
I looked at the FLOP's numbers: http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/mai ... e=osstats2 and came to some startling conclusions.

1. 96% of the FLOPS are being done by GPU's and only 4% by all CPU's.
2. only .08% of FLOPS are done by Linux and that includes all bigadv machines.

My conclusions:

If the number of clients dropping is not a concern because the FLOPS are staying consistent then obviously people are dropping large quantities of CPU slots in favor of a few GPU slots in droves.

If the measure of scientific work done is the FLOP then CPU's should have little value and bigadv is equivalent to none. The bigadv program being dropped is totally insignificant to the F@H except at the level of PR.

PPD's do not accurately the measure of scientific work/value.
 
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=25623&start=15#p257888
 
Any observations?
 
mine:
 
1. I have posted this exact post a dozen times (except the conclusion that ppd are not accurate.)
I guess no one did read my posts. ;) if it was news to him.
 
2. "If the measure of scientific work done is the FLOP then CPU's should have little value and bigadv is equivalent to none. The bigadv program being dropped is totally insignificant to the F@H except at the level of PR."
 
breaks sort of a geek rule of discussing a closed thread.
will p5-133xl suffer the same censure ?
 
I'll keep you informed.
 
OK results are in:
emailed to sort of a geek and tagged the post ...resulting in...wait for it...wait for it...
No change in the inflammatory(your work and invest over the years is equal to "none" value according to this post), off topic reference to a closed thread.
 
Well color me amazed!
 
So, it is OK for a FF mod to break the rules, but donors are banned.
 
To tell you the truth, I thought they would edit just to maintain appearance, but they cannot even be bothered with that when caught in a flagrant violation of their own policy.
 
It would be a laugh riot if it were not so erosive to the project. 
 
 

In other news, VJ sent a few more engaging emails my way.
 
While honest, sincere and engaging...they focused on possible other means of donor communication other than the FF.
 
While other means might be a beneficial addition, as long as the FF is the primary vehicle for donor alienation...participation will continue to decline.
 

It's never truly been established that Bruce asked for help... he implied it might help.  In other words it was a best guess on his part.
 
Not to worry... I'm certain that things will work out... after the next ice age... bright side is... during the ice age we can keep our caves warm with WU's.  :)
 

Here's a few random thoughts:

• if texinga loses his barrel when it's cold, then we might all see a blue moon
• maybe this tease of proteneer's has something to do with "mining" a.k.a. curecoin; PG might have noticed that the XRP/Ripple giveaway has led to "mining" in WCG to such a degree that in a mere 6 months the Ripple Labs team will have gone from creation to the #1 team of all time
• I wouldn't wish a moderator job at foldingforum.org on my worst enemy
• personally, I like 7im; he and I have agreed on a lot of things, including that bigadv was overvalued from the start (which is really the reason PG got into this mess in the first place)
• in fact, my interactions with bruce and 7im via private messages have all been good; yes 7im can be rude but that's the way it goes, he's not a mod any more
• the geek is the first mod there to delete a post of mine - long ago, for a totally draconian reason which made it clear that she really wants to enforce the letter, not the intent, of the rules

Punchy
Here's a few random thoughts:

• if texinga loses his barrel when it's cold, then we might all see a blue moon

Oh bro...if you only knew how flimsy those straps really are and at my age I probably wouldn't even notice that my moon was showing. 
 
Thanks for making me laugh this evening, it has been a long day...