Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/22 16:49:19
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ThrashZone
Hi,
It's just the game
I was surprised on how few people did really well on 8700k on the FFXV benchmark where as they did quite well on FF stormblood
The difference was day and night.
Either high clocks or high cache kills it is about all I can figure
I did better at 4.6 and max cache at 38 on x99 or x299 at 4.8 and max cache at 30.
I might add I'm not really a fps counter
I notice stalls and if everything is fluid I ready don't care what the fps are fluid is more important.
Hi Thrash, that's interesting as I didn't think the CPU played a big part in this game, but maybe it does more than I thought. I might try reducing my core and cache clocks and see if there is any change in performance.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/22 22:48:14
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Are these temps getting a bit hot? Warmest I've seen yet, might need to turn the AC on.. Can performance start suffering at these temps? Picture is hard to see, GPU 72C, PWR 76C, MEM 72C This game is frustrating to say the least, I'm getting fps drops into the 50, 40, as low as 30 fps in dense battles with a lot of effects, smoke etc. It is very dynamic, so the fps drops are very up and down but low drops are felt as well as visually very choppy. I don't know what this is but when I alt+tabbed to the desktop and back to game the GPU power and frame rate was dropping like crazy. The power was dropping between 100% as low 30% and the fps was a stuttering mess, had to force quit.  Edit: There's no sign of thermal throttling but maybe the PWR section is under strain? Edit 2: This afternoon was quite warm and the voltage was at 100%, I don't usually go to temps that high. Bringing the voltage down a few notches should cool things back.
post edited by Graphite8five - 2018/09/23 04:36:59
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ThrashZone
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/23 06:27:35
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Hi,
Yeah I would reduce the power target to 123%
But you could of gotten a bad assembly
My ftw3 had terrible thermal paste swapped it out for thermal grizzly kryonaut
Plus evga used some wildly greasy thermal pads too they seem more like double stick tape than any thermal pad I've ever seen fortunately ek water block comes with much better thermal pads :)
I would suggest a tear down even though those temps are said to be within spec's it would be better at 60c+ all !
Power is always the highest reading.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/24 01:33:34
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@ThrashZone
I think this was a one off occasion, I don't usually max the voltage out to 100% so I'm sure that is responsible for those high temps. I usually run the voltage at 80% and the PWR temps never go much above 70C. I think that is fairly safe... I have thought about slapping an EVGA hybrid cooler on but so far no urgent need.. There's no doubt FFXV is a challenge though. What works better, reducing the power target or the voltage or do they work quite similarly?
My buddy who plays at 3440x1440 with a Titan XP seems to think he doesn't get fps drops as low as 30-40 fps. We have almost identical hardware so I don't know what's wrong on my end.
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arestavo
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/24 09:35:19
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Graphite8five
@ThrashZone
I think this was a one off occasion, I don't usually max the voltage out to 100% so I'm sure that is responsible for those high temps. I usually run the voltage at 80% and the PWR temps never go much above 70C. I think that is fairly safe... I have thought about slapping an EVGA hybrid cooler on but so far no urgent need.. There's no doubt FFXV is a challenge though. What works better, reducing the power target or the voltage or do they work quite similarly?
My buddy who plays at 3440x1440 with a Titan XP seems to think he doesn't get fps drops as low as 30-40 fps. We have almost identical hardware so I don't know what's wrong on my end.
Can you pop your card into his system and test? That'd be a great way to rule out or confirm that it's the graphics card. If it works fine, I go back to what I said earlier - CPU/RAM instability, or a hard drive issue (it doesn't even have to be the drive where the game is installed - a failing drive can cause the whole system to "pause" when the OS queries it (I know this from personal experience)).
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Sajin
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/24 10:47:49
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Graphite8five
GPU 72C, PWR 76C, MEM 72C
Those temps are good.
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ThrashZone
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/24 11:40:56
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Graphite8five
@ThrashZone
I think this was a one off occasion, I don't usually max the voltage out to 100% so I'm sure that is responsible for those high temps. I usually run the voltage at 80% and the PWR temps never go much above 70C. I think that is fairly safe... I have thought about slapping an EVGA hybrid cooler on but so far no urgent need.. There's no doubt FFXV is a challenge though. What works better, reducing the power target or the voltage or do they work quite similarly?
My buddy who plays at 3440x1440 with a Titan XP seems to think he doesn't get fps drops as low as 30-40 fps. We have almost identical hardware so I don't know what's wrong on my end.
Hi, Core voltage and power target are sensitive for the FFXV benchmark so I would assume the game would be similar Power target I'd stay at +20 and increase it by 10's to test. Core voltage +123-124 first before dealing with power target. Set core clock +78 and increase it by +13 at a time until instability hits. But primarily juicing the memory comes first, with a medium core clock say +66 or +65 to be inline with the 13x additional core clock adds. Once you find your max mem speed 5-6-7-800.. before fragments start dial it down a tad and juice the core clock as stated. Once all that is done juice the power target +10....
post edited by ThrashZone - 2018/09/24 13:38:55
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 03:09:19
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arestavo
Graphite8five
@ThrashZone
I think this was a one off occasion, I don't usually max the voltage out to 100% so I'm sure that is responsible for those high temps. I usually run the voltage at 80% and the PWR temps never go much above 70C. I think that is fairly safe... I have thought about slapping an EVGA hybrid cooler on but so far no urgent need.. There's no doubt FFXV is a challenge though. What works better, reducing the power target or the voltage or do they work quite similarly?
My buddy who plays at 3440x1440 with a Titan XP seems to think he doesn't get fps drops as low as 30-40 fps. We have almost identical hardware so I don't know what's wrong on my end.
arestavo
Can you pop your card into his system and test? That'd be a great way to rule out or confirm that it's the graphics card.
I wish except they live more than half way around the other side of the world.. If it was the my graphics card what could the problem be?
arestavo
If it works fine, I go back to what I said earlier - CPU/RAM instability, or a hard drive issue (it doesn't even have to be the drive where the game is installed - a failing drive can cause the whole system to "pause" when the OS queries it (I know this from personal experience)).
Well actually as of before I read your post I still had my failing D: HDD plugged in... Was still grabbing bits and pieces off it but I can confirm I have pulled the plug on that drive today..
Anyway I downloaded the new FFXV September update today and ran one of the side quests. Check this video out, right at the beginning the fps drops from 76 fps to 11 fps! Even weirder is when I returned to the menu there was huge fps lag just moving up and down the menu items. There is huge performance leak going on here I just don't know what it is :/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp_HP5O8wUA
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 03:15:40
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ThrashZone
Hi,
Core voltage and power target are sensitive for the FFXV benchmark so I would assume the game would be similar
Power target I'd stay at +20 and increase it by 10's to test.
Core voltage +123-124 first before dealing with power target.
Set core clock +78 and increase it by +13 at a time until instability hits.
But primarily juicing the memory comes first, with a medium core clock say +66 or +65 to be inline with the 13x additional core clock adds.
Once you find your max mem speed 5-6-7-800.. before fragments start dial it down a tad and juice the core clock as stated.
Once all that is done juice the power target +10....
Ok that's good to know (FFXV sensitivity to power target and voltage) Perhaps I should just try running the game at default (no OC) that would eliminate this being an OC issue wouldn't it?
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 03:18:55
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 05:03:02
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It's bizarre, it's like some delay in the frames being rendered or something, like it gets stuck and then undone, or a jam in the frame rate rather an fps drop. At 0.35 to 0.37 you can see an artifact on screen followed by Noctis appearing to run backwards like your rewinding a video, at the same time the fps drop to 25 fps. It seems different to a normal fps drop, it's more like the frame rate is getting stuck or jammed...
post edited by Graphite8five - 2018/09/25 05:12:58
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arestavo
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 10:35:01
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In troubleshooting it's called the half-split method. It's used to narrow down a faulty component.
By testing the GPU in a separate system that doesn't have this issue, we can rule out or confirm that the fault lies with the GPU.
Otherwise it's just and exercise in flailing around blindly trying to hit on a fix.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 21:41:25
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arestavo
In troubleshooting it's called the half-split method. It's used to narrow down a faulty component.
By testing the GPU in a separate system that doesn't have this issue, we can rule out or confirm that the fault lies with the GPU.
Otherwise it's just and exercise in flailing around blindly trying to hit on a fix.
I would love to but I don't have access to another system or another GPU to try. I could contact a store to see whether they would be willing to lend a test card for troubleshooting.. I can tell you that this issue is not unique to FFXV though, I also get the 0 fps/GPU usage stalls in Watch Dogs 2. I just started up WD2 to test and the stalls occurred most during the first 5 minutes of the game loading. The stalls were completely random but possibly occurred as it was loading a new section of the game world. Could faulty Vram cause drop offs/stalls like this? I will inquire about obtaining a troubleshooting card, it's the best I can do.
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arestavo
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/25 23:08:34
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Graphite8five
arestavo
In troubleshooting it's called the half-split method. It's used to narrow down a faulty component.
By testing the GPU in a separate system that doesn't have this issue, we can rule out or confirm that the fault lies with the GPU.
Otherwise it's just and exercise in flailing around blindly trying to hit on a fix.
I would love to but I don't have access to another system or another GPU to try. I could contact a store to see whether they would be willing to lend a test card for troubleshooting..
I can tell you that this issue is not unique to FFXV though, I also get the 0 fps/GPU usage stalls in Watch Dogs 2. I just started up WD2 to test and the stalls occurred most during the first 5 minutes of the game loading. The stalls were completely random but possibly occurred as it was loading a new section of the game world. Could faulty Vram cause drop offs/stalls like this? I will inquire about obtaining a troubleshooting card, it's the best I can do.
Faulty VRAM? No, usually faulty VRAM will cause hard locks with checkerboard patterns, or weird, persistent graphical anomalies. Did you happen to mess with your Windows page file settings? I seem to recall someone else having issues related to stalls because he had manually changed the page file size. I doubt a computer repair shop will lend a card out, but I'm betting you could bring it in and have it tested out. Or you could just RMA it.
post edited by arestavo - 2018/09/25 23:10:59
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 00:28:01
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arestavo
Faulty VRAM? No, usually faulty VRAM will cause hard locks with checkerboard patterns, or weird, persistent graphical anomalies.
Did you happen to mess with your Windows page file settings? I seem to recall someone else having issues related to stalls because he had manually changed the page file size.
I doubt a computer repair shop will lend a card out, but I'm betting you could bring it in and have it tested out. Or you could just RMA it.
Page file is on system managed.. Well the store responded they don't have a card to lend out and offered to RMA it. That's looking like the only option. I will RMA directly with EVGA myself though and organize it for it to be an express replacement. If a new card is fine the old one goes back. Is this increasingly looking graphic card related? I set my Bios back to bone stock and still the hard locks so it is looking more that way... Also the fact this issue is not unique to FFXV and is evident over 2-3 games.. I will get onto to setting up a ticket with EVGA and see what they suggest. Edit: What do you think could be wrong with the card to cause this issue? Would it be worth switching back to the master Bios in case it's an issue with the slave Bios? 
post edited by Graphite8five - 2018/09/26 01:09:31
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Sajin
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 01:10:40
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I don't think this is a gpu issue. Guess we will find out soon enough.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 01:19:13
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Sajin
I don't think this is a gpu issue. Guess we will find out soon enough.
Any ideas what then? My Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 3200Mhz passed a rigorous Memtest 86+, the CPU overclock seems stable, games recently transferred to a new 100% healthy HDD. Bad PSU?
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Sajin
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 01:34:16
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I looked at your two recent videos. Your gpu usage appears to be stuck @ 5% all the time. Does that also occur when running benchmarks like heaven 4.0?
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 01:49:55
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Sajin
I looked at your two recent videos. Your gpu usage appears to be stuck @ 5% all the time. Does that also occur when running benchmarks like heaven 4.0?
Where are you seeing 5%? The GPU usage is in green and it's in graph form.. You can see it's up and down like crazy. Windows gamebar recorded in an ultra low resolution so you can barely see the OSD sorry, I will look to change that. I can say it's definitely not 5%, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing. Usually 99% when the settings are maxed out and those sudden stalls usually see the utilization drop to 50% momentarily. I will set up a Heaven bench and take a screenshot.
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Sajin
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 01:51:52
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2nd number from the left on gpu row.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 02:01:10
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Sajin
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 02:06:18
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I'd take the video card to a local pc shop and have them run tests on it before sending it off for rma as the issue may not be the gpu. Make the shop run heaven 4.0 on it to see if it stalls on them. If it doesn't then you'll know your gpu isn't the issue.
post edited by Sajin - 2018/09/26 02:09:37
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 02:19:04
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Sajin
I'd take the video card to a local pc shop and have them run tests on it before sending it off for rma as the issue may not be the gpu. Make the shop run heaven 4.0 on it to see if it stalls on them. If it doesn't then you'll know your gpu isn't the issue.
I could organize that. I'd like to get this sorted out asap. Thanks for the assistance here and I'll report back with any new info. I might run Heaven a few more times to see how often the stalls occur.
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ThrashZone
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 03:54:22
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Hi, Yeah slave bios was terrible until I used the king|pin fix. Then it was just a little wonky I reflashed to the slave vbios and reapplied the king|pin fix and it's not near as wonky as it was. Not great but a little better. Times like this one wishes they had a spar power supply to test with.
post edited by ThrashZone - 2018/09/26 03:57:09
My first build,Case 450D/ ASUS Sabertooth X99/ 5930k with EK mono block / Water loop EK 280p-GTX240 radiators with D5 pump res combo before rads and D5 top after / Trident-Z 3200C14 4x8gb/ EVGA 1000 P2/ EVGA 1080ti FTW3 with EK copper water block. 2nd build,Case D450/ ASUS x299 Prime Deluxe/ i9-7900x delidded with EK mono block/ Trident-Z 3600C16 4x8gb/ Water loop EK-280p-GTX240 radiators with D5 pump-res combo before rads and D5 top after/ EVGA 1200 P2 / Titan Xp with EK water block.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 04:03:50
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ThrashZone
Hi,
Yeah slave bios was terrible until I used the king|pin fix.
Then it was just a little wonky
I reflashed to the slave vbios and reapplied the king|pin fix and it's not near as wonky as it was.
Not great but a little better.
Times like this one wishes they had a spar power supply to test with.
Terrible how? What is the king|pin fix? Yeah it could be PSU. This Seasonic X-750 is only around 2 years old but I suppose anything could happen. Times like this can be frustrating!
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ThrashZone
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 04:13:10
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Graphite8five
ThrashZone
Hi,
Yeah slave bios was terrible until I used the king|pin fix.
Then it was just a little wonky
I reflashed to the slave vbios and reapplied the king|pin fix and it's not near as wonky as it was.
Not great but a little better.
Times like this one wishes they had a spar power supply to test with.
Terrible how? What is the king|pin fix?
Yeah it could be PSU. This Seasonic X-750 is only around 2 years old but I suppose anything could happen. Times like this can be frustrating!
Hi, https://forums.evga.com/1...2693145.aspx?tree=true
My first build,Case 450D/ ASUS Sabertooth X99/ 5930k with EK mono block / Water loop EK 280p-GTX240 radiators with D5 pump res combo before rads and D5 top after / Trident-Z 3200C14 4x8gb/ EVGA 1000 P2/ EVGA 1080ti FTW3 with EK copper water block. 2nd build,Case D450/ ASUS x299 Prime Deluxe/ i9-7900x delidded with EK mono block/ Trident-Z 3600C16 4x8gb/ Water loop EK-280p-GTX240 radiators with D5 pump-res combo before rads and D5 top after/ EVGA 1200 P2 / Titan Xp with EK water block.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 18:03:42
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EVGA's initial response to my ticket is "this could be a sign that the power supply is not able to sustain the power needed by the graphics card" If that were true would the voltage to the card be unstable or can power anomalies not easily be seen? It would be a major PITA to RMA my PSU. Basically they'd want it back to test which could takes weeks and I'd have to PC at all. 
Maximus XI Hero, 8700K 5Ghz delid, EKWB Custom loop ,Dominator RGB 3400Mhz 16GB, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 EK Vector, Seasonic Prime Platinum 1300W, Asus PG349Q 34" 120hz G-Sync, Phanteks Eclipse P600S.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 18:13:23
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Interestingly the two stalls occurred again in Heaven at the exact same spot as before, it just so happens to be the most demanding spot in Heaven also, where there is the lowest fps drop.. Does this mean the card is flaking most under extreme pressure? In the graph here you can see GPU% dropped right down to 36%. I have also noticed that despite the voltage remaining stable the Power% usage did drop off at the same time as stall, graph #2.  
Maximus XI Hero, 8700K 5Ghz delid, EKWB Custom loop ,Dominator RGB 3400Mhz 16GB, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 EK Vector, Seasonic Prime Platinum 1300W, Asus PG349Q 34" 120hz G-Sync, Phanteks Eclipse P600S.
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squall-leonhart
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 19:02:51
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Heaven always stutters at those spots, it uses synchronous resource loading which stalls rendering while data ahead of the viewport is loaded.
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Graphite8five
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Re: Framerate drops in FFXV
2018/09/26 19:41:51
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squall-leonhart
Heaven always stutters at those spots, it uses synchronous resource loading which stalls rendering while data ahead of the viewport is loaded.
The bit where it fly's under that brick walkway? Hmm well this complicates things further :/ Synchronous resource loading, is that used in games or unique to Heaven? Edit: That stall in Heaven in "that spot" is identical to what I experience in game, so why do I experience this in game?
post edited by Graphite8five - 2018/09/26 19:47:25
Maximus XI Hero, 8700K 5Ghz delid, EKWB Custom loop ,Dominator RGB 3400Mhz 16GB, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 EK Vector, Seasonic Prime Platinum 1300W, Asus PG349Q 34" 120hz G-Sync, Phanteks Eclipse P600S.
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