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Hot!Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards.

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2021/02/06 18:56:40 (permalink)
Hey all,

I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
 
https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
 
 
The fix?  Voltage curves.

https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
 
As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
 
I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

Good luck!

EDIT: While I fix my images.

EDIT 2: For those that don't feel like reading through the entire thread, the problem was fixed by limiting my voltage for OC to 1.062V and below, and having the card run at stock speeds at any voltage above 1.062 V.  Comfortably running at +120/+1250 for about 5 days with no crashes.  While you obviously shouldn't have to do this sort of workaround to prevent your card from dying, I can say with confidence this solves whatever issue is causing game crashes and constant RMAs.  Happy Gaming!
post edited by Rewire92 - 2021/02/14 02:47:54


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    Dyezak
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 20:14:57 (permalink)
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    ds760
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 20:49:22 (permalink)
    Interesting. Going to start watching the GPU voltage when I crash in a game on my kingpin. I've noticed spikes over 1.09 when I up my MV to 100%. If I leave mv extra at 0 it rarely goes over 1.062v but spikes occasionally to 1.081
    post edited by ds760 - 2021/02/06 21:25:27

     
     
     
     



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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 20:52:47 (permalink)
    1.1V is what these GPUs are rated for. Whether or not the GPU will be able to hit that due to GPU boost's algorithm is a whole different story.
     
    Edit - ran a quick Valley benchmark and got this for proof:

    post edited by arestavo - 2021/02/06 20:58:24

    EVGA affiliate code: 9ZWDWFNW6A
    (Don't forget to upload your invoice or no credit is given!)
     
    FOLD ON
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 20:54:30 (permalink)
    Really great information. Will be curious if it's fixed with an update or when they release the 30 super series. Use to be a time when quality control would have discovered this issue. Now the companies can ship a product and use warranty to address the issue because it's more cost effective. I love Evga hardware but thier software seems to be lacking. I personally will be waiting until they release cards with more Vram. Hopefully the bugs will be worked out. If I spent $700 or more and had more then one failure, I assure you it would be that last time I bought that companies product.
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2021/02/08 04:00:51


     
      
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    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 20:59:19 (permalink)
    arestavo
    1.1V is what these GPUs are rated for. Whether or not the GPU will be able to hit that due to GPU boost's algorithm is a whole different story.


    Well they may be "rated" for 1.1V, but since I did this fix I found, I'm going on 6 hours with no crashing, and no voltage spikes past 1.068V.

    It may not be the root of the problem, but it's certainly fixed it.

    EDIT:  Also, the crashes were happening in low power states at low wattage and GPU usage.  You're running the the highest performance state with full GPU usage, which has no problems as demonstrated by my 150 hours on cyberpunk.
    post edited by Rewire92 - 2021/02/06 21:07:13


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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 21:27:16 (permalink)
    Rewire92
    Hey all,

    I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

    I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

    I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

    My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

    I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

    Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

    So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

    So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

    I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
     
    https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
     
     
    The fix?  Voltage curves.

    https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
     
    As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


    https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
     
    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

    The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

    EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

    While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: While I fix my images.




    You're under clocking the GPU, you could probably accomplish the same thing via using the Debug setting in the NVCP for testing sine your model is factory overclocked.  I'm not sure of the frequency of RMA's because basing it on complaints doesn't give you a percentage. Historically FTW cards have had a higher failure rate simply due to running a higher factory clocks.

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    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 21:31:33 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    Rewire92
    Hey all,

    I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

    I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

    I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

    My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

    I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

    Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

    So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

    So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

    I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
     
    https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
     
     
    The fix?  Voltage curves.

    https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
     
    As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


    https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
     
    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

    The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

    EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

    While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: While I fix my images.




    You're under clocking the GPU, you could probably accomplish the same thing via using the Debug setting in the NVCP for testing sine your model is factory overclocked.  I'm not sure of the frequency of RMA's because basing it on complaints doesn't give you a percentage. Historically FTW cards have had a higher failure rate simply due to running a higher factory clocks.


    Not underclocking the GPU.

    My clocks in game are at 2100/11252.  It's undervolting.


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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 21:51:42 (permalink)
    Rewire92
    HeavyHemi
    Rewire92
    Hey all,

    I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

    I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

    I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

    My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

    I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

    Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

    So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

    So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

    I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
     
    https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
     
     
    The fix?  Voltage curves.

    https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
     
    As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


    https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
     
    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

    The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

    EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

    While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: While I fix my images.




    You're under clocking the GPU, you could probably accomplish the same thing via using the Debug setting in the NVCP for testing sine your model is factory overclocked.  I'm not sure of the frequency of RMA's because basing it on complaints doesn't give you a percentage. Historically FTW cards have had a higher failure rate simply due to running a higher factory clocks.


    Not underclocking the GPU.

    My clocks in game are at 2100/11252.  It's undervolting.


    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068. 
     
    I can only go by what you posted and your description.
    Undervolting would be setting the GPU to run the same or higher clocks at a lower voltage that what GPU Boost sets it at. You're not doing that. You're capping your frequency at a fixed voltage.
    Secondarily, I'm not sure how disabling GPU Boost 3.0 with a fixed frequency/voltage would be a fix. 
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2021/02/06 21:55:16

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    #9
    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 22:17:58 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    Rewire92
    HeavyHemi
    Rewire92
    Hey all,

    I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

    I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

    I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

    My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

    I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

    Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

    So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

    So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

    I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
     
    https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
     
     
    The fix?  Voltage curves.

    https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
     
    As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


    https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
     
    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

    The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

    EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

    While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: While I fix my images.




    You're under clocking the GPU, you could probably accomplish the same thing via using the Debug setting in the NVCP for testing sine your model is factory overclocked.  I'm not sure of the frequency of RMA's because basing it on complaints doesn't give you a percentage. Historically FTW cards have had a higher failure rate simply due to running a higher factory clocks.


    Not underclocking the GPU.

    My clocks in game are at 2100/11252.  It's undervolting.


    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068. 
     
    I can only go by what you posted and your description.
    Undervolting would be setting the GPU to run the same or higher clocks at a lower voltage that what GPU Boost sets it at. You're not doing that. You're capping your frequency at a fixed voltage.
    Secondarily, I'm not sure how disabling GPU Boost 3.0 with a fixed frequency/voltage would be a fix. 


    The GPU strives to run at the highest core clock possible, not the highest voltage possible.
     
    I'm running at 1.068 at 2100 Mhz.  The voltage never goes above 1.068, because that would be *lowering the core clock*, which it doesn't want to do.


    #10
    mricypaw1
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/06 22:22:37 (permalink)
    Super interesting. Would love to see more people who said they had problems try this.
    #11
    timmyboy04
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/07 06:34:42 (permalink)
    Wonder if PXOC voltage curve differs from BIOS curve and if so, there's a correlation with OC/monitoring software and failure/crashing rates.

    Do you run PXOC at all or just MSIAB?
    #12
    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/07 11:19:28 (permalink)
    timmyboy04
    Wonder if PXOC voltage curve differs from BIOS curve and if so, there's a correlation with OC/monitoring software and failure/crashing rates.

    Do you run PXOC at all or just MSIAB?

    Only MSIAB.

    An update.  After about 9 hours of game time on League, I finally experienced another hard crash.  GPU-Z showed my voltage at 1.068V at 1800Mhz at the time of the crash.

    I believe this is the problem, voltage spikes in low power states. 

    I've lowered my overclock and set my clocks to go down at 1.062 V.  Will update if I have any more crashing.


    #13
    Kylearan
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/07 13:20:35 (permalink)
    Rewire92
    Hey all,

    I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

    I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

    I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

    My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

    I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

    Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

    So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

    So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

    I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
     
    https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
     
     
    The fix?  Voltage curves.

    https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
     
    As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


    https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
     
    I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

    The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

    EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

    While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: While I fix my images.




    Most people believed it was something related to power balancing on the cards (not necessarily the shunts), and this seems to confirm that.
    So there is some substandard part or design used on the cards that is failing when the card boosts up, and is actually enough to completely kill the card.
     
    I think this needs to be investigated further.  And I STILL think someone should be willing to donate a dead board over to buildzoid so he can actually test the board (he is capable of repairing it to make it work already).
     
    To add to this:  This is NOT the first time this has happened.
     
    Most people on this forum are not aware of this, but the MSI GTX 1070 MXM rev 1.0 cards (laptop cards) would do the exact same thing.  They would crash if the voltage exceeded 1.0v (or 0.950v, I do not remember).  Someone over on notebookreview tested this.  MSI actually released a vbios for these cards (I believe the vbios ended in "8A", but I have long forgotten.  You can check my posts on the MSI GT73VR thread there, I'm Falkentyne), and that vbios limited the max voltage on the card to I believe, 0.881v.  This prevented the card from boosting up to the bugged voltage step points. There was a second bios, which actually disabled all GPU Boost completely, but that was a debug vbios, and well, useless.  
     
    This bug was completely fixed in Rev 1.2 cards (which is the card in my MSI laptop).  I believe the 1.0 cards only were in some GT72VR and GT73VR with Skylake cores (while most of the Kaby Lake BGA models had the 1.2 cards).  I do NOT know if every 1.0 card was affected either, but I sure know a lot of them were.  There was a megathread discussing it.
     
    This bug didn't kill the cards however.  They just crashed.
     
    Looks like the eVGA version is far less predictable.  If it were predictable, every card would insta-crash the instant you launched League of Legends.
    #14
    mricypaw1
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 02:58:58 (permalink)
    Do you have any updates? Has it been stable now?
    #15
    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 07:33:48 (permalink)
    mricypaw1
    Do you have any updates? Has it been stable now?


    No issues since I restricted the card to run at 1.062 V and below.  Did a full day of streaming and playing league while watching youtube yesterday with no issues.

    Closing in on confidence this fixes the issues.


    #16
    kevinc313
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 11:48:56 (permalink)
    arestavo
    1.1V is what these GPUs are rated for. Whether or not the GPU will be able to hit that due to GPU boost's algorithm is a whole different story.
     
    Edit - ran a quick Valley benchmark and got this for proof:





    My 3080 FTW3 Hybrid loves 1.1V - the combination of a few less cores, 450w power and decent cooling make it want to get up there no problem, even on reasonably heavy loads.
    #17
    Rapoo
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 12:51:47 (permalink)
    Thanks for the investigation into your card. I hope it helps EVGA narrow down the problem, although I think they already know.
     
    I bet this is similar cause of what is happening in Halo MCC crashes. Lower power states allowing voltage to shoot up I guess because lower temps allow for it but that some components aren't equipped to handle the spikes leading to rapid degradation. I think it's much more complex issue involving both software and hardware, so it's probably why EVGA isn't doing anything about it until they revise the card and keep doing RMA because not everyone play these older games.
    #18
    glocked89
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 13:01:14 (permalink)
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.
    #19
    EckoDG
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 13:35:06 (permalink)
    Quick question, when u say crashing, it crashes just the game? because im trying to find why my pc is reseting after i start a game. so game, black screen, pc reset(mobo logo and bios options)
    #20
    timmyboy04
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 13:37:08 (permalink)
    glocked89
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.


    Could you not just set a global fps limit to achieve less draw/ load on the card?
    #21
    glocked89
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 14:29:05 (permalink)
    timmyboy04
    glocked89
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.


    Could you not just set a global fps limit to achieve less draw/ load on the card?


    I have a fps in place as well. With just the fps cap, the card will still pull more than 0.850v at times. With the undervolt it'll never draw more than 0.850v.
    #22
    RaulKodrum
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 15:24:37 (permalink)
    I am also undervolting my card even if I haven't experienced any kind of graphic crashes due to over voltage (more due to unstable OC when overclocking)...
     
    For normal, daily gaming use, undervolting basically helps keep the same performance or even greater while keeping voltages and temperature way lower. Currently using a custom curve at max 0.950 V with core boost clocks between 1980 and 1965MHz and temps stable at max 51º C (Hybrid cooling) while playing Cyberpunk 2077.
     
    It also helps controlling the PCI slot power draw "issue" since it rarely reaches 70 W.
    #23
    Rewire92
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 20:59:55 (permalink)
    timmyboy04
    glocked89
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.


    Could you not just set a global fps limit to achieve less draw/ load on the card?

    The problem isn't the power draw, the problem is it's spiking voltages up to max-rating at clocks and usage numbers it shouldn't be at.  Likely, this means certain components that aren't supposed to "see" this sort of voltage are rapidly degrading on the card, because too much voltage is being shoved through them unexpectedly.

    After another day of gaming I'm 100% confident this is the issues with these cards.

    To mitigate the issue, I've set the card to run at STOCK clocks above 1.062V, and boost below that.  That means I still get OC available clocks as long as the card is cool enough, without worrying about having to change profiles for different games.

    A firmware update should be able to resolve this.
    post edited by Rewire92 - 2021/02/08 21:02:34


    #24
    mricypaw1
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 21:26:54 (permalink)
    Rewire92
    timmyboy04
    glocked89
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.


    Could you not just set a global fps limit to achieve less draw/ load on the card?

    The problem isn't the power draw, the problem is it's spiking voltages up to max-rating at clocks and usage numbers it shouldn't be at.  Likely, this means certain components that aren't supposed to "see" this sort of voltage are rapidly degrading on the card, because too much voltage is being shoved through them unexpectedly.

    After another day of gaming I'm 100% confident this is the issues with these cards.

    To mitigate the issue, I've set the card to run at STOCK clocks above 1.062V, and boost below that.  That means I still get OC available clocks as long as the card is cool enough, without worrying about having to change profiles for different games.

    A firmware update should be able to resolve this.


    Can you elaborate on this I don't really understand what you mean. Do you have a photo of the voltage curve?
    #25
    Dyezak
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 22:29:29 (permalink)
    mricypaw1
    Rewire92
    timmyboy04
    glocked89
    Had my card since launch. For older titles I've been undervolting, 1800mhz 0.850v. I'll only load up my oc profile for cp2077.


    Could you not just set a global fps limit to achieve less draw/ load on the card?

    The problem isn't the power draw, the problem is it's spiking voltages up to max-rating at clocks and usage numbers it shouldn't be at.  Likely, this means certain components that aren't supposed to "see" this sort of voltage are rapidly degrading on the card, because too much voltage is being shoved through them unexpectedly.

    After another day of gaming I'm 100% confident this is the issues with these cards.

    To mitigate the issue, I've set the card to run at STOCK clocks above 1.062V, and boost below that.  That means I still get OC available clocks as long as the card is cool enough, without worrying about having to change profiles for different games.

    A firmware update should be able to resolve this.


    Can you elaborate on this I don't really understand what you mean. Do you have a photo of the voltage curve?




    He posted the photos in the original post. 
    #26
    another-user
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/08 22:29:41 (permalink)
    for what its worth, im looking over the logs of my 3090 ftw hybrid right before it died, from back in december.  
     
    while playing witcher 3, it spiked up to 1.075v for a couple of seconds, and then instantly dropped back to .0738v.  the power consumption seemed to be all over the place too.   while at 1.075v it was drawing between 189-269w. and then 380w @ 1.056v
     
    the last entry before she blew up is 397.989w @ 1.038v
    #27
    yaggaz
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/09 03:27:24 (permalink)
    Rewire92

    A firmware update should be able to resolve this.




    Wow thanks for figuring all this out.  If they could fix with a firmware update, would that be a case of limiting the card's performance to achieve safety?

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    #28
    ClowReed
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/09 14:40:19 (permalink)
    Good job! If it's a design flaw, then ALL 3080s and 3090s are a ticking time bomb and they will only fix this with a new revision. Probably a new bios should "fix" this at the expense of the bleeding edge performance and oc. Sad thing... And they are waiting way too long to release at least a beta bios that addresses the problem, at least to stop killing more boards.
    Anyone tried running those games without any oc software to see if the problems continue? JayzTwoCents had overclocking problems using Precision X1 with 3090 FTW3, which were solved using Afterburner. So maybe overclocking software could trigger those spikes by causing some sort of interference/conflict? (sorry if I'm talking nonsense, I'm not an expert by any means)
    #29
    mricypaw1
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    Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/02/10 01:59:47 (permalink)
    I'm hopeful EVGA will release a bios update soon which will prevent the voltage spikes. Hopefully it can be solved through that rather than a hardware revision.
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