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Hot!Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards.

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ivangogh
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/03/22 14:24:58 (permalink)
Warranty repair/replacement is included in the purchase price. It's the shipping that costs.
Eksu99
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/03/22 14:37:41 (permalink)
ivangogh
Warranty repair/replacement is included in the purchase price. It's the shipping that costs.

In EU, shipping shouldn’t cost anything for the customer in case of warranty exhange/repair.


1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.
2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate reduction made in the price or the contract rescinded with regard to those goods, in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.
3. In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or he may require the seller to replace them, in either case free of charge, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.
A remedy shall be deemed to be disproportionate if it imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison with the alternative remedy, are unreasonable, taking into account:
- the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity,
- the significance of the lack of conformity, and
- whether the alternative remedy could be completed without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods.
4. The terms "free of charge" in paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to the necessary costs incurred to bring the goods into conformity, particularly the cost of postage, labour and materials.
5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price or have the contract rescinded:
- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
6. The consumer is not entitled to have the contract rescinded if the lack of conformity is minor.


Look especially the point number four (4). It clearly includes the cost of postage. Bolding and underlining is my own.
post edited by Eksu99 - 2021/03/22 14:46:49
rjohnson11
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/03/22 14:54:00 (permalink)
Eksu99
ivangogh
Warranty repair/replacement is included in the purchase price. It's the shipping that costs.

In EU, shipping shouldn’t cost anything for the customer in case of warranty exhange/repair.


1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.
2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate reduction made in the price or the contract rescinded with regard to those goods, in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.
3. In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or he may require the seller to replace them, in either case free of charge, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.
A remedy shall be deemed to be disproportionate if it imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison with the alternative remedy, are unreasonable, taking into account:
- the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity,
- the significance of the lack of conformity, and
- whether the alternative remedy could be completed without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods.
4. The terms "free of charge" in paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to the necessary costs incurred to bring the goods into conformity, particularly the cost of postage, labour and materials.
5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price or have the contract rescinded:
- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
6. The consumer is not entitled to have the contract rescinded if the lack of conformity is minor.


Look especially the point number four (4). It clearly includes the cost of postage. Bolding and underlining is my own.


If an RMA is required in Europe then you follow the RMA procedures and return the item to EVGA. You pay for shipment to EVGA. If the item, upon examination by EVGA is determined to be a manufacturer defect then EVGA pays to have another item shipped to you at no charge provided you are within the warranty period. 

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X,  Corsair Mp600 Pro M.2, 32GB Corsair DDR5  X670E Steel Legend, MSI RTX 4090 Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

zenstrata
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/03/22 15:06:55 (permalink)
JimBeamBlack
Sorry to barge into this thread, But I have a quick question. 
I'm probably worrying for nothing, but I'm also trying to be as vigilant as I can about my investment in this 3080 so I keep an eye on the forums, and to me this is interesting about these things happening in older games, games which should not even be any sort of issue.
 I decided to run the Precision X1 HWM to see what my voltages are, keep in mind I don't overclock past the factory settings of my FTW3 Ultra, I really haven't had the need to at all as this card is BLAZING fast for me.
 
This is what I got running P3D v5 (dx12) for about 2 hours, NOTE that my voltage while running the game was low, but while the game was paused is when the voltage spiked up to 1.081 along with the memory clock mhz? Then when I un-paused the game the voltage and memory mhz went back down again.
 
Is THIS unusual behavior or just normal operating procedure? You would think it would be just the opposite but I am no expert? OR am I not even looking at this correctly?
 
Anyways, should I worry or just go about my business? So far while gaming for hours in Cyberpunk 2077 I haven't broke 76C, and no black screens or high running fans, but I'm almost afraid to pause or alt/tab out of any of my games.
 
thanks


While I am NOT! an EVGA engineer,  I have worked professionally as a PC technician for 15 years, and what you are describing does not sound outside of the normal operating behavior for video cards.  PC hardware goes through a lot of variations in voltage and frequency while it's running, it is not unusual for things to jump around to various states now and then.  As long as your hardware is operating well, and giving you the performance it should be able to provide, then I would not worry about things like that.  If you were to notice unusual temperatures (such as the card running very hot (around 80c or more for long periods of time), or the screen flickering or artifacts appearing in your picture (that are outside of normal operation), then I would worry. 
But from your description your hardware sounds fine, I wouldn't worry.
post edited by zenstrata - 2021/03/22 15:10:45
Eksu99
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/03/22 15:08:40 (permalink)
rjohnson11
Eksu99
ivangogh
Warranty repair/replacement is included in the purchase price. It's the shipping that costs.

In EU, shipping shouldn’t cost anything for the customer in case of warranty exhange/repair.


1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.
2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate reduction made in the price or the contract rescinded with regard to those goods, in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.
3. In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or he may require the seller to replace them, in either case free of charge, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.
A remedy shall be deemed to be disproportionate if it imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison with the alternative remedy, are unreasonable, taking into account:
- the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity,
- the significance of the lack of conformity, and
- whether the alternative remedy could be completed without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods.
4. The terms "free of charge" in paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to the necessary costs incurred to bring the goods into conformity, particularly the cost of postage, labour and materials.
5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price or have the contract rescinded:
- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant inconvenience to the consumer.
6. The consumer is not entitled to have the contract rescinded if the lack of conformity is minor.


Look especially the point number four (4). It clearly includes the cost of postage. Bolding and underlining is my own.


If an RMA is required in Europe then you follow the RMA procedures and return the item to EVGA. You pay for shipment to EVGA. If the item, upon examination by EVGA is determined to be a manufacturer defect then EVGA pays to have another item shipped to you at no charge provided you are within the warranty period. 


Nope, the seller must cover the costs both ways if the product is found defective.

Under EU law, within the legal guarantee period of two years, defective products must be repaired or replaced without any cost to the consumer. This includes any shipping costs. So, the seller should cover all shipping costs (the cost of you sending the faulty camera to the them and the trader returning the repaired camera to you).
However, the trader may wish to examine the camera to check whether it was defective when you bought it. In this case, you may have to pay to return the camera and ask to be refunded your shipping costs if the trader agrees that it was defective.

And here is another link again a space after "https:".
https: //europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm
m1gu3l
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/07/12 15:55:33 (permalink)
Do Evga 3080 ti FTW3 cards also have this problem?
Exclusive to 3080 and 3090?
kevinc313
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/07/12 16:57:04 (permalink)
m1gu3l
Do Evga 3080 ti FTW3 cards also have this problem?
Exclusive to 3080 and 3090?




They changed how they draw power, but it still ain't that great.
m1gu3l
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2021/07/12 23:20:18 (permalink)
kevinc313
m1gu3l
Do Evga 3080 ti FTW3 cards also have this problem?
Exclusive to 3080 and 3090?




They changed how they draw power, but it still ain't that great.


Thanks for helping me.
Does it mean that there will still be problems?

I currently have the option of getting an EVGA 3080ti ftw3 for 1500€ or an MSi gaming trio z 3080 for 1200€. I can also get Asus Tuf 3080ti (1650€) strix (1750€), Asus strix 3080(1300€). What do you advise me to do?
jegreene
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/02 18:07:02 (permalink)
Has anyone solved this problem for 3090s? Similar resolve? 
 
I am having crashes in dota 2 consistently. 
Intoxicus
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/03 09:39:44 (permalink)
Rewire92
Hey all,

I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
 
https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
 
 
The fix?  Voltage curves.

https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
 
As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
 
I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

Good luck!

EDIT: While I fix my images.

EDIT 2: For those that don't feel like reading through the entire thread, the problem was fixed by limiting my voltage for OC to 1.062V and below, and having the card run at stock speeds at any voltage above 1.062 V.  Comfortably running at +120/+1250 for about 5 days with no crashes.  While you obviously shouldn't have to do this sort of workaround to prevent your card from dying, I can say with confidence this solves whatever issue is causing game crashes and constant RMAs.  Happy Gaming!



Funny you mention this.

I was trying to work with them about the voltage curve issues such as too many points on the same voltage in a row.
Basically it comes down to a certain point it's on Nvidia and what they enforce.

I have personally definitely had OC issues where they curve screwed my OC by doing erratic things.

But when it comes to the 3090's New World helped expose what the actual issue is and it turned out to be a bad solder joint on a specific run of cards.

"Humans are not rational animals, humans are rationalizing animals." -Robert A Heinlein
jegreene
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/03 09:54:11 (permalink)
Intoxicus
 
Funny you mention this.

I was trying to work with them about the voltage curve issues such as too many points on the same voltage in a row.
Basically it comes down to a certain point it's on Nvidia and what they enforce.

I have personally definitely had OC issues where they curve screwed my OC by doing erratic things.

But when it comes to the 3090's New World helped expose what the actual issue is and it turned out to be a bad solder joint on a specific run of cards.




Is it possible that the Rev 1 3090 cards have this issue? 
 
I have been having consistent crashes to desktop in Dota 2. Similarly anytime I up the power draw on the card (in Precision) the cards crashes are more frequent. This are quite apparent in Dota 2 and happen in stress tests.
 
My crash is as simple as the game closes to desktop, no errror or anything. Same with 3DMark
post edited by jegreene - 2022/01/03 10:43:18
Intoxicus
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/03 14:20:21 (permalink)
jegreene
Intoxicus
 
Funny you mention this.

I was trying to work with them about the voltage curve issues such as too many points on the same voltage in a row.
Basically it comes down to a certain point it's on Nvidia and what they enforce.

I have personally definitely had OC issues where they curve screwed my OC by doing erratic things.

But when it comes to the 3090's New World helped expose what the actual issue is and it turned out to be a bad solder joint on a specific run of cards.




Is it possible that the Rev 1 3090 cards have this issue? 
 
I have been having consistent crashes to desktop in Dota 2. Similarly anytime I up the power draw on the card (in Precision) the cards crashes are more frequent. This are quite apparent in Dota 2 and happen in stress tests.
 
My crash is as simple as the game closes to desktop, no errror or anything. Same with 3DMark



That could be a lot of different things. You'll have to troubleshoot it.

The issue people have with the 3090's I'm referring to results in bricked cards.



"EVGA
All of the cards were earlier production run cards manufactured in 2020. Under an X-ray analysis, they appear to have "poor workmanship" on soldering around the card's MOSFET circuits that powered the impacted cards."


https://www.techpowerup.c...bricked-rtx-3090-cards
post edited by Intoxicus - 2022/01/03 14:29:57

"Humans are not rational animals, humans are rationalizing animals." -Robert A Heinlein
dpoverlord
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/12 18:04:22 (permalink)
jegreene
Intoxicus
 
Funny you mention this.

I was trying to work with them about the voltage curve issues such as too many points on the same voltage in a row.
Basically it comes down to a certain point it's on Nvidia and what they enforce.

I have personally definitely had OC issues where they curve screwed my OC by doing erratic things.

But when it comes to the 3090's New World helped expose what the actual issue is and it turned out to be a bad solder joint on a specific run of cards.




Is it possible that the Rev 1 3090 cards have this issue? 
 
I have been having consistent crashes to desktop in Dota 2. Similarly anytime I up the power draw on the card (in Precision) the cards crashes are more frequent. This are quite apparent in Dota 2 and happen in stress tests.
 
My crash is as simple as the game closes to desktop, no errror or anything. Same with 3DMark


I wrote on a reddit forum my experience as I have been troubleshooting my issues for months. My 1st release card had 0 issues with games or playing ANYTHING at a +300 O/C. IT ONLY had issues with ANYTHING if I used any driver above 472.12
 
Due to this and the random crashes, EVGA sent me a new card as my first release 3090 FTW3 would randomly crash with ANY driver over 472.12.
 
Now with the new card I am getting temps 15C lower but random crashes in Every game if there is ANY OVERCLOCK, or in Games like Apex / Witcher randomly with the 497.29 drivers; where the previous card could get a +300 O/C on Air 0 issues with 472.12 (issues only on newer drivers).
 
It is really odd, my theory is that the new drivers Power cycle the 3000 series cards if a temperature hits a certain number. 
 
Debating on downgrading the drivers as APEX Legends and Witcher crash randomly now even with a 0 overclock.
 
At a loss. 

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/21 11:54:28 (permalink)
Seems like this issue mostly happens with older games/heavily optimized games.
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/27 09:39:09 (permalink)
m1gu3l
1. Does it mean that there will still be problems?

2. I currently have the option of getting an EVGA 3080ti ftw3 for 1500€ or an MSi gaming trio z 3080 for 1200€. I can also get Asus Tuf 3080ti (1650€) strix (1750€), Asus strix 3080(1300€). What do you advise me to do?



1. It sounds like it.
 
I've been a long time long EVGA video card fan (first video card from them was a TNT2). But, in short succession I have a customer service issue, then a queue issue, and now bricked 3090FTW (like everyone else), I WILL be getting my next card from someone else. I have used Asus for my M/B's since the 486 days. I am going to give them a shot for my next video card. I think I will likely RMA my 3090 FTW again and then sell it once it returns unless it is a different revision. For me, I'd rather just wait for this issue to be corrected before getting yet another one of the same cards that will fail. 
post edited by bambihunter - 2022/01/28 05:58:50

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Intoxicus
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/29 07:02:54 (permalink)
Rewire92
Hey all,

I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
 
https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
 
 
The fix?  Voltage curves.

https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
 
As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
 
I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

Good luck!

EDIT: While I fix my images.

EDIT 2: For those that don't feel like reading through the entire thread, the problem was fixed by limiting my voltage for OC to 1.062V and below, and having the card run at stock speeds at any voltage above 1.062 V.  Comfortably running at +120/+1250 for about 5 days with no crashes.  While you obviously shouldn't have to do this sort of workaround to prevent your card from dying, I can say with confidence this solves whatever issue is causing game crashes and constant RMAs.  Happy Gaming!




You should be able to do 1.1v safely.
If you can't do 1.1v without issue there's a problem with the power delivery components.

They also have learned that the cause of these issues was a poorly soldered mosfet that was missing QC checks.
Which explains a lot about how they keep sending RMA replacements that die the same way.

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/31 06:27:33 (permalink)
Do you have it undervolted or underclocked? can be this issue, or as said just wait for a bios update
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/01/31 20:55:56 (permalink)
arestavo
1.1V is what these GPUs are rated for. Whether or not the GPU will be able to hit that due to GPU boost's algorithm is a whole different story.
 
Edit - ran a quick Valley benchmark and got this for proof:



my FTW3 3080 does 1.0V.... no issues




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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/19 15:42:29 (permalink)
Hmmm, an interesting but scary thread.

What's the status right now for the "EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 24GB FTW3 ULTRA" card , this is still an issue with some older titles? It's not affecting all cards, "only" the early production series?

If the card is having this issue it's not possible to solve with a firmware update?

Undervolting the card seems like a good solution though? User @Rewire92 is succussfully running this card with an undervolt of 1.062V?  Together with an overclock of +120 Core/+1250 Memory.
Edit: I was wrong, @Rewire92 finally had to do a third RMA and then finally received a good card.

Is the article from techpowerup.com "EVGA Reveals that Bad Soldering Was the Culprit behind Bricked RTX 3090 Cards" the official explanation?
 
Is there a way to check if my "EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 24GB FTW3 ULTRA" is from the production series having these issues?
post edited by makatech - 2022/09/19 16:30:46
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/19 19:10:16 (permalink)
It was the Rev 0.1's cheaper components, not a soldering issue. If you have a Rev 1.0, you have a lot less to worry about.
The reason EVGA can't tell you which cards were affected by the supposed soldering problem is because it was a myth from the start. 'Any of the early 3090 FTW3s (Rev 0.1) cards could have a soldering issue.' Lol. Get real!
Rev 0.1 3090 FTW3 had 50 amp power stages and a not-so-great analog voltage controller. The Rev 1.0 was upgraded to 70 amp power stages and a digital voltage controller.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2022/09/19 19:44:32
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 09:13:11 (permalink)
JimBeamBlack
Sorry to barge into this thread, But I have a quick question. 
 
I'm probably worrying for nothing, but I'm also trying to be as vigilant as I can about my investment in this 3080 so I keep an eye on the forums, and to me this is interesting about these things happening in older games, games which should not even be any sort of issue.
 
I decided to run the Precision X1 HWM to see what my voltages are, keep in mind I don't overclock past the factory settings of my FTW3 Ultra, I really haven't had the need to at all as this card is BLAZING fast for me.
 
 This is what I got running P3D v5 (dx12) for about 2 hours, NOTE that my voltage while running the game was low, but while the game was paused is when the voltage spiked up to 1.081 along with the memory clock mhz? Then when I un-paused the game the voltage and memory mhz went back down again.
 
 Is THIS unusual behavior or just normal operating procedure? You would think it would be just the opposite but I am no expert? OR am I not even looking at this correctly?
 
Anyways, should I worry or just go about my business? So far while gaming for hours in Cyberpunk 2077 I haven't broke 76C, and no black screens or high running fans, but I'm almost afraid to pause or alt/tab out of any of my games.
 

 thanks




If you're not using vsync or some form of frame limiting, when paused, your FPS can reach into the hundreds or thousands as you're no longer CPU limited and your GPU will pump out as many frames as it can.

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 11:37:33 (permalink)
Rewire92
  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC. 


I've brought the issue up specifically with MCC and all I got was dismissive hubris as replies.

Thank you for the vindication.

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 11:59:37 (permalink)
Rewire92
Hey all,

I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with 2 broken 3090 FTW3 Ultras, and upon the issue happening yet again with my 3rd card, I decided to do some deep trouble shooting.  Let me lay out the experience for you.

I enjoy playing older titles, as well as the newer AAA titles from time to time as well.  My first 3090 did great in demanding games, but was netting me a subpar overclock (+75 Core/+500 Mem), I played 100+ hours in Cyberpunk 2077 and I really had a great time.  However, I was getting black screen high fan spinning usage when playing less demanding titles such as League or Halo MCC.  I had to hard reset my computer to get the card to turn back on, and I did so over the next few weeks whenever I played those games, until one day, it wouldn't turn back on at all.  I had no lights on the card, and a red light over one of the PCIE power pin slots.

I RMAed.  The new 3090 came, and I was happy.  50 more hours of Cyberpunk, and no issues.  But in League....more crashing.   6 more black screens later, the 2nd card was dead.  Red light over a PCIE pin power slot, but the card still lit up.  Not sure why about that.

My 3rd card came yesterday.  And I knew right where to look.  The reason that doctors press until it hurts is to find out where the problem is, because patients sometimes lie. 

I launched League and without 3 minutes going by in game, black screen, high fans, no output, and the card was running at stock speeds.   I called up EVGA, and I had a nice long chat with a rep while I tried to reproduce the issue.  They told me the symptoms I was experiencing were "Over-Current Protections" kicking in, and also that my first RMA card had failed because of a power related issue.  They suggested I switch out my power supply (an EVGA 1200W P2) with the gold power supply I had before (EVGA 1300W G2).  I played a full 16 minutes of league while on the phone with them, and experienced no crashing, but a minute after we hung up, it black screened, and crashed again.

Now, I dabble in overclocking quite a bit.  I'm aware of how voltages can cause instability in cards, and how too much current breaks transistors and traces inside CPUs.  I'd never had this issue with GPUs before, because I would always just do mild overclocks.  

So I started using GPU-Z to watch my voltages while gaming on League.  What did I see while playing League?  Well, the card would *usually* be at 1800 Mhz, using 0.8680 V while I was in game, but occasionally, the voltage would spike along with the clock speed, all the way up to 2025Mhz and 1.0810 V.  Now, I like I said, I don't do much "hardcore" overclocking for my GPUs, but I have used MSI Afterburner for literally 10 years.  I've never seen a video card go over 1.050 Vs.  I looked up the max safe voltage for the 3090, and wasn't able to find it using google, but I had another solution that I knew would work.

So, I booted up Cyberpunk, since I knew I could game on that for hours on end without crashing.  Max Voltage I saw in that game?  1.050V.  Played fine for an hour.  Then I thought to myself, let's try overclocking?  So I set my power limit to 107%, with a mild OC of +75 Core and +750 Mem.   1.075 V when the game started, and 1.068 V while in game.  Ok....Let's crank the overclock.  +150 Core and +1500 Mem.  Played fine for another hour, still max voltage in game?  1.068 V.

I then had a thought.  What if the voltage curve in lower power states is messed up somehow?  I set MSI Afterburner to "Force Constant Voltage" and booted up a League custom game.   I was able to play the game for 35 minutes before the game crashed, so I knew I was on the right track.  There were less voltage spikes, and less core Mhz spikes as well.  But it still crashed?  Why?  Well, when it finally did crash, it had gone up to 1.081 V again.
 
https://prnt.sc/yla8ib
 
 
The fix?  Voltage curves.

https://prnt.sc/ylaaor
 
As you can see here, the normal voltage curve stops ramping only when the card gets up to a whopping 1.118 V on the core.  Well, I'm crashing at well below that at using only 150 watts and the core at 1.081V, and I know the card is stable using 450 Watts at 1.068V so what can I do to fix this?


https://prnt.sc/ylahyd
 
I set the core Mhz to plummet after 1.068 V, and since I'm not getting anywhere near those higher voltage numbers without a higher power limit BIOS, I don't need to worry about them.

The result?  I just streamed and watched a movie on my 5 monitors while playing a 2 hour custom game of League by myself.  I'm going to need more testing, but I believe I've fixed the problem.

EVGA needs to adjust their voltage curves for the standard BIOS, because I believe it's breaking Voltage limits in lower power states while still attempting to go to higher core clocks. Also, while my experience here is only anecdotal, it *has* fixed my League crashing problem, so I can only assume that the voltage curve *is* the issue.  The card attempts to go up to a voltage it shouldn't be at when the temperature is not low enough on the card to do so, breaking copper traces in the card with too much voltage at too high of a temperature.

While my experience here is a solitary thing, I would like to have some other people experiencing this issue chime in, and let me know if this fixes the issue.  Maybe I've fixed EVGA's RMA problem with these cards, an experience that I can only assume has reached a large dollar cost figure, with how many people I've seen having the same issues.

Good luck!

EDIT: While I fix my images.

EDIT 2: For those that don't feel like reading through the entire thread, the problem was fixed by limiting my voltage for OC to 1.062V and below, and having the card run at stock speeds at any voltage above 1.062 V.  Comfortably running at +120/+1250 for about 5 days with no crashes.  While you obviously shouldn't have to do this sort of workaround to prevent your card from dying, I can say with confidence this solves whatever issue is causing game crashes and constant RMAs.  Happy Gaming!



Edit: I had neglected to look at the images you posted at first. You have what we can maybe call a "death curve." Where it clusters up to 5 voltage points for the same core clock? That's a problem. Because it always chooses the lowest voltage for a cluster like that you'll always get frakked over by when it clusters more than 2. I only got instability and crashes from it on my 3080 FTW3 Ultra Hybrid on the XOC bios. But if there are underlying issues on the 3090 design the curve clustering could be a trigger. 

This is what my reliable Voltage curve I use for gaming looks like: https://imgur.com/a/MugXyT4 

For the core clocks you know will be in use you want only one voltage point per core clock. Once you get below where it's likely to throttle to it can have doubles, but not triples(sorry Bob Odenkirk, triples are not best or safe in this context.)

It takes some finagling to get those results. And quite often the curve does random stuff when I hit "apply." I have three presets that I use to get a curve like that. Each slightly different. The goal is to get it so that only one or two points move when you hit apply, that way you can correct them, and then they usually, but not always, stay put the second time you hit "apply." I should probably make a video using OBS to demonstrate this in action as my explanation is probably not very clear...

-----------------------

That is some interesting results and data. 

There are multiple known issues with the voltage curves. They'll do all sorts of weird things and can be difficult to "tame." I had a long support interaction with EVGA about this because it was causing instability due to multiple voltage points for the same core clock. Instead of each voltage increment only having a single core clock, you can get two to five different voltages for the same core clock. And it always defaults to the lowest point, which can turn an otherwise stable OC into constant crashes. And it also changes your curve in random ways when you hit apply. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Voltage Curve inconsistencies are a part of the problem. 

EVGA did release a bios update that made a huge difference for me, but didn't completely fix it. And they said they can't do much more because they're limited by what Nvidia allows.

The max core voltage allowed is 1.1v btw.

Although I found that with MCC the fan ramping bug doesn't get stopped by this approach. It still happened to me, but only in specific menus. As long as I avoided those menus I would usually be fine. Whenever fan ramping started I always immediately shut the game down and rebooted. And if you watch the rpm numbers it ramps into the millions quickly. The pwm pulses alternate between correct RPM and a progressive doubling. Everytime it ramps up again the rpm doubles. And if it's actually trying to provide the power to achieve that insane rpm(into the millions very quickly!) that could be a large part of the issue. I can only say that it certainly sounds like it's trying to exceed it's limits. The MCC fan ramping sounds insane, it's significantly louder and more intense than normally setting the fans to 100%.

I don't understand how they though the PSU being changed would make a difference. The PSU provides what is "requested." If the GPU is the problem, as had already been established, then changing the PSU won't help anything. Changing the PSU won't stop the GPU from demanding too much current.

Also trying using the MSI Afterburner to monitor stuff like fan rpm, core voltage, core clock, and power draw(both total and per connection.) You can see if there's an imbalance between the power connectors and PCIe slot. And also see what's actually happening when the fan ramping strikes. MSI Afterburner's OSD is amazing when combined with HWinfo. You can see almost everything important happening in real time and get a very precise picture of what's going on.

You'll probably be surprised to find out that you're not getting the core clocks and voltage that you set the curve to. The curve does it's own thing and you rarely actually get what you set it to.
post edited by Intoxicus - 2022/09/20 12:42:30

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 12:44:02 (permalink)
ty_ger07
It was the Rev 0.1's cheaper components, not a soldering issue. If you have a Rev 1.0, you have a lot less to worry about.
The reason EVGA can't tell you which cards were affected by the supposed soldering problem is because it was a myth from the start. 'Any of the early 3090 FTW3s (Rev 0.1) cards could have a soldering issue.' Lol. Get real!
Rev 0.1 3090 FTW3 had 50 amp power stages and a not-so-great analog voltage controller. The Rev 1.0 was upgraded to 70 amp power stages and a digital voltage controller.


edited for language….(moderator)

EVGA said it themselves.

"EVGA admits that the failure of some of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue," limited to the aforementioned early batch of RTX 3090s. More specifically, an X-ray PCB analysis of failed products revealed "poor workmanship" on soldering around the card’s MOSFET circuits."
post edited by Delirious - 2022/09/22 19:29:55

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 13:34:54 (permalink)
Intoxicus
ty_ger07
It was the Rev 0.1's cheaper components, not a soldering issue. If you have a Rev 1.0, you have a lot less to worry about.
The reason EVGA can't tell you which cards were affected by the supposed soldering problem is because it was a myth from the start. 'Any of the early 3090 FTW3s (Rev 0.1) cards could have a soldering issue.' Lol. Get real!
Rev 0.1 3090 FTW3 had 50 amp power stages and a not-so-great analog voltage controller. The Rev 1.0 was upgraded to 70 amp power stages and a digital voltage controller.


TOS are you even on about.

EVGA said it themselves.

"EVGA admits that the failure of some of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue," limited to the aforementioned early batch of RTX 3090s. More specifically, an X-ray PCB analysis of failed products revealed "poor workmanship" on soldering around the card’s MOSFET circuits."

And all the other ones which failed with no soldering faults?

What I am on about is a bunch failed, and they were the inferior 0.1 ones. Not every one had soldering issues. Surely. Do you think EVGA designed a board revision and upgraded to more expensive components out of kindness? If fixing the soldering process was the solution, EVGA would still be making Rev 0.1 cards.

Think
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 13:58:28 (permalink)
edited by moderator


They said "EVGA admits that the failure of  ***some*** of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue,""

You do understand that "some" means "not all"?

It's not the cause for *all failures*, only *some* of them.

Meaning it's not a myth.

You could paraphrase it as "Some, but not all failures are due to a rare soldering issue."

It's almost like you decided on something without paying attention to the actual facts...
post edited by Delirious - 2022/09/22 19:32:44

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 14:32:39 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
JimBeamBlack
Sorry to barge into this thread, But I have a quick question. 
 
I'm probably worrying for nothing, but I'm also trying to be as vigilant as I can about my investment in this 3080 so I keep an eye on the forums, and to me this is interesting about these things happening in older games, games which should not even be any sort of issue.
 
I decided to run the Precision X1 HWM to see what my voltages are, keep in mind I don't overclock past the factory settings of my FTW3 Ultra, I really haven't had the need to at all as this card is BLAZING fast for me.
 
 This is what I got running P3D v5 (dx12) for about 2 hours, NOTE that my voltage while running the game was low, but while the game was paused is when the voltage spiked up to 1.081 along with the memory clock mhz? Then when I un-paused the game the voltage and memory mhz went back down again.
 
 Is THIS unusual behavior or just normal operating procedure? You would think it would be just the opposite but I am no expert? OR am I not even looking at this correctly?
 
Anyways, should I worry or just go about my business? So far while gaming for hours in Cyberpunk 2077 I haven't broke 76C, and no black screens or high running fans, but I'm almost afraid to pause or alt/tab out of any of my games.
 

 thanks




If you're not using vsync or some form of frame limiting, when paused, your FPS can reach into the hundreds or thousands as you're no longer CPU limited and your GPU will pump out as many frames as it can.




+1  Not to mention you're wasting power and dumping unnecessary heat load.

Always sync your GPU to your screen's Hz since going above it makes no difference since your screen can only display what its capable of.

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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/20 18:45:51 (permalink)
Intoxicus
Omg, how dense are you.


They said "EVGA admits that the failure of  ***some*** of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue,""

You do understand that "some" means "not all"?

It's not the cause for *all failures*, only *some* of them.

Meaning it's not a myth.

You could paraphrase it as "Some, but not all failures are due to a rare soldering issue."

It's almost like you decided on something without paying attention to the actual facts...

Cool. And the others weren't soldering faults. So we agree.
When you ask EVGA why every card failed, they say it was a rare soldering fault. Therefore, they are telling you a myth. Either it is a rare soldering fault, or it is a common something else fault. If every one is a "rare" soldering fault, then it is obviously a myth.
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/21 12:25:07 (permalink)
Intoxicus
Omg, how dense are you.


They said "EVGA admits that the failure of  ***some*** of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue,""

You do understand that "some" means "not all"?

It's not the cause for *all failures*, only *some* of them.

Meaning it's not a myth.

You could paraphrase it as "Some, but not all failures are due to a rare soldering issue."

It's almost like you decided on something without paying attention to the actual facts...
do you understand that a company’s marketing statement on a product’s failure is not necessarily a fact?

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HeavyHemi
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Re: Fixing EVGA's 7 Figure Problem with FTW3 30 Series cards. 2022/09/21 14:51:55 (permalink)
redteamgo
Intoxicus
Omg, how dense are you.


They said "EVGA admits that the failure of  ***some*** of its products was due to a "rare soldering issue,""

You do understand that "some" means "not all"?

It's not the cause for *all failures*, only *some* of them.

Meaning it's not a myth.

You could paraphrase it as "Some, but not all failures are due to a rare soldering issue."

It's almost like you decided on something without paying attention to the actual facts...
do you understand that a company’s marketing statement on a product’s failure is not necessarily a fact?

The same follows for statements claimed by forum members as well... generally used in conjunction with the word 'every' meaning all was one thing or the other.
post edited by HeavyHemi - 2022/09/21 14:53:08

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