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i need help! come on peeps , someone?

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DillonHightower
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2010/05/20 00:38:31 (permalink)
ok so i was just reading a lot of fourms and it brought up a very good question . at least i think...

so i have been replacing my water blocks and i read that if u mix nickle and copper , it is bad .. i have a aqua computer full copper block for my 5970 and the rest of my water loop is all nickle  blocks, so my question is do i need to get a nickle 5970 water block , or is it ok to have both copper and nickle in a single loop??????? ...!

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    terrisorian
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 01:02:20 (permalink)
    In short no it is not ok, you should have all of the same metals/ alloys throughout your system or it will cause corrosion.

    In long any time you mix two metals in water you get a very basic battery. In electrochemistry the bigger the difference between two electrode potential numbers (voltage) for a given reaction or set of metals, the more likely or rather vigorously they are to react in this manner. This process is accelerated by heat which there is plenty of in a cooling system as well as slightly acidic or basic water. Additives in your system, in most cases, slow down this process but some additives can have quite the opposite effect. I'm not saying any of this will ruin your system in a few days BUT IT WILL RUIN IT IN THE LONG RUN like after a year or more.

    for those interested wiki says:
    Cu = [Cu2+]  + [e−] with a potential of +0.159
    Ni = [Ni2+]  + [2 e−] with a potential of −0.25

    so the difference is only 0.409 volts which is not a lot (using the Nernst Equation gets a more accurate voltage which you can use to determine the rate of plating or "damage" but that's not important). Also that voltage assumes there is already a little bit of dissolved metal in the water which there probably isn't. This is why it takes much longer then all the math would make it seem.

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    DillonHightower
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 01:08:57 (permalink)
    terrisorian

    In short no it is not ok, you should have all of the same metals/ alloys throughout your system or it will cause corrosion.

    In long any time you mix two metals in water you get a very basic battery. In electrochemistry the bigger the difference between two electrode potential numbers (voltage) for a given reaction or set of metals, the more likely or rather vigorously they are to react in this manner. This process is accelerated by heat which there is plenty of in a cooling system as well as slightly acidic or basic water. Additives in your system, in most cases, slow down this process but some additives can have quite the opposite effect. I'm not saying any of this will ruin your system in a few days BUT IT WILL RUIN IT IN THE LONG RUN like after a year or more.

    for those interested wiki says:
    Cu = [Cu2+]  + [e−] with a potential of +0.159
    Ni = [Ni2+]  + [2 e−] with a potential of −0.25

    so the difference is only 0.409 volts which is not a lot (using the Nernst Equation gets a more accurate voltage which you can use to determine the rate of plating or "damage" but that's not important). Also that voltage assumes there is already a little bit of dissolved metal in the water which there probably isn't. This is why it takes much longer then all the math would make it seem.


    well thank you very much. this made very good sense. so now im stuck with 2 copper 5970 blocks i need to sell.

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    terrisorian
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 01:13:16 (permalink)
    why not ditch the nickle and keep the copper did I miss something?
    copper has better thermal conductivity then nickel anyways but ultimately its up to you whats cheapest/best.
    post edited by terrisorian - 2010/05/20 01:15:49

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    PhantomMs1
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 05:56:23 (permalink)
    +1, copper dispells heat much faster than nickle.  I would say keep the copper blocks you already have and sell the nickle.








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    nateman_doo
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 06:27:39 (permalink)
    I am thinking nickle plated copper? 

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    nateman_doo
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 06:31:54 (permalink)
    terrisorian

    In short no it is not ok, you should have all of the same metals/ alloys throughout your system or it will cause corrosion.

    In long any time you mix two metals in water you get a very basic battery. In electrochemistry the bigger the difference between two electrode potential numbers (voltage) for a given reaction or set of metals, the more likely or rather vigorously they are to react in this manner. This process is accelerated by heat which there is plenty of in a cooling system as well as slightly acidic or basic water. Additives in your system, in most cases, slow down this process but some additives can have quite the opposite effect. I'm not saying any of this will ruin your system in a few days BUT IT WILL RUIN IT IN THE LONG RUN like after a year or more.

    for those interested wiki says:
    Cu = [Cu2+]  + [e−] with a potential of +0.159
    Ni = [Ni2+]  + [2 e−] with a potential of −0.25

    so the difference is only 0.409 volts which is not a lot (using the Nernst Equation gets a more accurate voltage which you can use to determine the rate of plating or "damage" but that's not important). Also that voltage assumes there is already a little bit of dissolved metal in the water which there probably isn't. This is why it takes much longer then all the math would make it seem.


    Wow.  Great writeup.  You should make a detailed new post on the use of dissimilar metals in  a water loop (with pics).  This way it can be stickied and it can nip that question in the butt for all times sake. 

    I think it would take longer then a year, but some of us maintain their loops more then others. 

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    owcraftsman
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    Re: i need help! come on peeps , someone? 2010/05/20 07:06:53 (permalink)
    The nickel is an electroplate over copper if the two metals didn't mix well then everyone would be having serious issues.... daaa anybody heard of barbs.  Also to the best of my knowledge most radiators are made with brass which is a combination of two metals and what about those barbs aren't they plated too. Both are certainly problematic if you subscribe to this theory and intend to use them in your loop. IMO and from what I've seen reported by many others you should have little to no issues with copper, nickel and brass in the same loop but avoid adding aluminum to the same, which seems to be the culprit of serious corrosion issues. Plus there are corrosion inhibitors you can use to help curtail repercussions of mixed metals. However most inhibitors use Ethylene Glycol which presents another issue you want to avoid, the dreaded jelly sludge.  I see these doom and gloom reports all the time and only a couple of times have I seen (pictures) physical evidence of any of this nonsense in the last 10 years. I say hog wash. Let me give a couple examples. I have a Corsair Natilus System that has hydrX in it I've been using it 4 years now at first with it's included CPU block then I cut off that and attached it to a dedicated NB/SB loop. I have never changed the coolant and it's still clear as a bell, UV reactive, zero corrosion or sludge or jelly really no issues of any kind. What's Up With That? hugh? My other loops I've used Primochill and fesser UV reactive coolants, for the cool look, again with no issues. However in fairness I've never used aluminum #1 and my loops never last more than a year without an upgrade or hardware failure etc etc that required me to disassemble the loop at which point all parts are cleaned and new coolant is used at reassembly. During inspection and cleaning I have never seen these type issues So I think you are all splitting hairs here unless you are going to use aluminum with other metals and set up a loop and let it set for 4 or more years without any maintenance.  I say use what you want and be happy. Nothing (coolant) out there, unless aluminum is used will fail in a years time at which point do some maintenance change your coolant. 

    Any who my 2 cents worth

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