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Helpful ReplyHot!10980XE on X299 Dark

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dmann304
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2024/02/14 08:16:17 (permalink)
Switched to the XE, and been doing lots of tuning to get simular results like the 10920X, and seems temps are the same.  And
at 4800mhz, 32mesh.  1.3v on cpu 1.25v mesh 300uncore, 1.2vccio. 1.825v vid.  Seems solid.  but despite what youtbers
have this cpu at for tjmax, whats the real setting to avoid heating?  and with  a 420 aio 170i push pull fans.  When i do
run r20, or OCCT, the cpu will drop to 3000ghz or even 3800, normal?  my 10920 under stress would drop to 4300 or 3800 
'but score the same.  Any ideas to fine tuning this chip for daily? not benchmarks
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 13:57:49 (permalink)
dmann304And at 4800mhz ... When I do run r20, or OCCT, the cpu will drop to 3000ghz or even 3800, normal?

When overclocking CPU are you using 'Ratio Limit' in BIOS or 'Per core'?
What are your AVX2 and AVX3 offsets?
Are your EIST, Turbo Mode, and CPU C states enabled or disabled?
Which Windows power plan are you using?
 
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 14:55:55 (permalink)
Per core, avx 2 offset, eist turbo c state auto, high performance mode. R20 passes with good score for xe, with expected results. Now I understand why most people usually go to about 4.8 ghz at 1.2v, but I need 1.3v at 1.815 Vin, and xmp with secondary tight timings. Oc from 3600 to 3800 mhz on corsair platinum. My tjmax is 95c. I have noticed when I was running geekbench 6, I got a hard restart, no body, which could be cuz of UPS only does 1000w 1500mv from cyborpower. I moved power cord to a non battery outlit. Why is They're a difference between per core, and core ratio?? I did drop mesh from 32 at 1.255v to 30z at 1,175v which dropped temps a bit.
post edited by dmann304 - 2024/02/14 14:59:04
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 16:40:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2024/02/15 12:26:18
dmann304
Per core, avx 2 offset, eist turbo c state auto, high performance mode. R20 passes with good score for xe, with expected results. Now I understand why most people usually go to about 4.8 ghz at 1.2v, but I need 1.3v at 1.815 Vin, and xmp with secondary tight timings. Oc from 3600 to 3800 mhz on corsair platinum. My tjmax is 95c. I have noticed when I was running geekbench 6, I got a hard restart, no body, which could be cuz of UPS only does 1000w 1500mv from cyborpower. I moved power cord to a non battery outlit. Why is They're a difference between per core, and core ratio?? I did drop mesh from 32 at 1.255v to 30z at 1,175v which dropped temps a bit.

You are changing way too many things at the same time and some of them incorrectly. Let’s focus on one thing at the same time:
 
1. Use ‘Per core’, EIST : Enabled, EIST>Turbo Mode : Enabled, CPU C states : Disabled, Windows power plan: Ultimate
 
2. Set TJmax to Intel’s setting for your CPU (do NOT set it higher than that for now), set mesh to 24x with Vmesh to auto voltage for now, and memory to its XMP profile.
 
3. Set CPU multiplier to 43X, AVX2 offset to 3, and AVX3 offset to 5. Now start testing base frequency using OCCT. Tell OCCT to use only standard (non-AVX) instruction set for one hour run and using its monitoring watch core temperatures and package temperature and throttling flags. Goal is to have them under TJmax and no throttling flags raised. Keep increasing base frequency while that criteria is met. That will give you maximum base frequency while CPU is still not tortured.
 
4. Now repeat same for AVX2 offset telling OCCT to use AVX2 instruction set and once that is done do it for AVX3 offset / instruction set. Keep in mind AVX2 and AVX3 create massive heat real fast (especially AVX3), no wonder you crashed at 4.8 with 2 offset, there is no way to run them that high without overheating.
 
5. Once you are done with this you have defined your frequency starting point, “overclock” that should not be hurting your CPU. Now you can start experimenting with gradually raising your TJmax and frequency, seeing what happens with temperatures and throttling flags and stability, and do you need to counter frequency increase with AVX2/AVX3 offset decrease (keep in mind this is three instruction sets, meaning three different frequencies, and you need to test one at the time). Once you reach maximum point back off a little. Just keep in mind anybody that exceeds official TJmax is effectively pushing CPU beyond what Intel considers safe and is thus in unsafe territory for the CPU.
 
6. Now you can tune your memory.
 
7. Once done with memory start tuning mesh. Keep in mind faster mesh will result in temperature increases so once again you will need to watch those three instruction sets and adjust accordingly.
 
Last, but not least, you have asked about “safe daily” voltages. Answer is: I suspect nobody short of Intel knows for sure. If you take a look at xDevs X299 XDark overclocking guide it tells you what are “normal” ranges but that doesn't mean a guarantee your particular chip will be able to accomplish them.
 
Hope this helps.
post edited by ZoranC - 2024/02/14 16:44:41
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 17:06:16 (permalink)
Very informative, When dropping this new chip in. I forgot it's a must to do a reset and then do settings because of the new chip being a little different than the 10920. I'm pretty much been down that road before, And with a chip this powerful, is it best to run it off the battery un? U p s or on its own outlet?
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 17:15:24 (permalink)
Very informative, When dropping this new chip in. I forgot it's a must to do a reset and then do settings because of the new chip being a little different than the 10920. I'm pretty much been down that road before, And with a chip this powerful, is it best to run it off the battery un? U p s or on its own outlet? Also board shows avx 1 and avx 2 on dark definition.
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 17:28:24 (permalink)
dmann304I forgot it's a must to do a reset and then do settings because of the new chip being a little different than the 10920. ... Also board shows avx 1 and avx 2 on dark definition.

I consider clearing CMOS every time new CPU is dropped in, even if of same model, mandatory. IIRC default AVX offsets for my X299 Darks were 0 which is too aggressive. If you are curious to learn more I believe HWInfo64 will show you Intel's baked in frequencies.
 
dmann304And with a chip this powerful is it best to run it off the battery UPS or on its own outlet?

IMHO _ANY_ system one cares about should be run off the UPS. As long as it is a quality UPS and its rating can easily accommodate system's maximum draw. I've had very good experience with Eaton 1500 over the years.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 17:35:52 (permalink)
Agree, but under load, that thing was pegging the max of watts it can handle. But still good idea.
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 17:47:24 (permalink)
dmann304Agree, but under load, that thing was pegging the max of watts it can handle. But still good idea.

Then answer is "get better UPS", not "my UPS is not good enough so I will remove protection and risk my system". I've seen system that was plugged straight into the wall get completely fried in under a second. Is it worth the risk? Not to me, everything, including a cable modem, going into UPS is mandatory for me. I've seen system that was plugged into APC UPS lose power while one next to it didn't. Ever since I'm not using anything but Eaton. But it is your system, your money, and thus your call.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 18:01:23 (permalink)
The system is plugged in to u p s, Just not the battery side. It was causing my UPS to make real loud. Screeching sounds when on a heavy load. End because now I have 18 core CPU in there. It adds more wattage demand to the battery side of the UPS which might have caused it hard restart because that did not happen with the same. Uefi setting's as I did with the 10920.
post edited by dmann304 - 2024/02/14 18:04:31
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 18:13:52 (permalink)
dmann304The system is plugged in to u p s, Just not the battery side.

When system is not plugged into battery side it might not be protecting from the surge, or not correcting over/under voltage, or "dirty" power and those things too can impact system's stability / longevity.
 
dmann304It was causing my UPS to make real loud. Screeching sounds when on a heavy load.

That sound is your UPS telling you you are overloading it, that it might not function correctly, and you need bigger UPS.
 
But again, your system, your money, your call. I personally wouldn't do it.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 18:40:07 (permalink)
Also in your explanation, What about the turbo boost3 setting? When getting a baseline with the instructions you gave. Do I need to keep this enabled or keep it disabled? As I been doing?
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 18:55:17 (permalink)
dmann304
Also in your explanation, What about the turbo boost3 setting? When getting a baseline with the instructions you gave. Do I need to keep this enabled or keep it disabled? As I been doing?

Do you mean 'Intel Turbo Boost 3.0 Driver Support'? I have it disabled. My logic is: I'm not taking advantage of Turbo Boost, I am using Ultimate power plan making all cores run at full speed all the time and I don't have favored cores, all my cores are running at same multiplier. Also, Intel says https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000021587/processors.html "The Windows OS has native support for Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 and the feature is enabled automatically. ... The OS knows this feature of the processor and loads the native support. There's no need to enable in the BIOS or OS."
 
However, by same token one could say it shouldn't make a difference if you leave it enabled in BIOS. If you do, and if you decide to use 'per core' but not having all cores at same multiplier, I would be curious to hear what you found.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 20:47:38 (permalink)
I will probably test that, I'm sort of concerned more about the world thread the boss core that has highest mhz. Seems it's happy at 48ghz, but seems to be stable at 30mesh and offset of 3 on avx when getting baseline test and enabling xmp in memory, should I do anything with sub timings? Cuz with xmp profile my latency is garbage by default and folks tweak subs to lower latency
post edited by dmann304 - 2024/02/14 20:58:24
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 20:50:18 (permalink)
dmann304I'm sort of concerned more about the world thread the boss core that has highest mhz. Seems it's happy at 48ghz, but seems to be stable at 30mesh and offset of 3 on avx

I do not understand what you mean by that. Could you rephrase it, please?
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 21:10:42 (permalink)
I'm focused more on single core performance, and a balance of performance
on the other threads, withought thermal trottling. But the xmp profile?? After a baseline test with occt. And where in occt dies it show if cpu is throttling?
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/14 21:42:54 (permalink)
dmann304I'm focused more on single core performance, and a balance of performance on the other threads, withought thermal trottling.

Keep in mind that moment you hit AVX2/AVX3 code concept of favored core will go out of the window. If your best core has 48x and worst 43x in non-AVX workloads and your AVX2 offset is 3 moment you hit AVX2 code they will all go down to 45x (48 - 3), not 45x for best core and 40x for worst. That is why I didn't chase highest possible multiplier for most favored core, I felt keeping them all at same multiplier (even if that one is little lower for best core than it could be) is good compromise because it keeps things simple and in return I get overall lower temperatures.
 
dmann304And where in occt dies it show if cpu is throttling?

I don't remember their names from the top of my head but IIRC both OCCT's sensor monitoring and HWInfo64 have items that show if there is throttling, you will have to dig a little to find them. Also HWInfo64 is good place to see what is happening to your core multipliers as you run other things besides OCCT.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/15 09:24:51 (permalink)
I don't think it's an all core at 48x with avx offsets of 3, I read debt when you tighten the subtiming and increase the memory speed off the xmp, That could put a lot of strain on the memory controller.and when I had mesh at 32x, that added more heat. Seems folks claim there is a very slight increase in performance running this higher , I tested this in 3D mark. And I noticed that the score was the same in times pythons. But would get me as why do I have to run this chip at 1,29 v when gamers nexus and jay got away with 1.22v at 49x? And I'm doing push pull 420 aio. And what about the Vin score 1.8v??
post edited by dmann304 - 2024/02/15 09:27:29
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/16 16:15:42 (permalink)
Been doing lots and lots of testing, And I noticed right around 4.6 4.7 It's starts to really heat up even at 1.2v It's starts to heat up at 4,6 it scores over 10k in R20. Over three thousand points higher than when it was at 4,8. Seems to be a huge gap between those two frequencies.
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ZoranC
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/17 14:49:09 (permalink)
dmann304But would get me as why do I have to run this chip at 1,29 v when gamers nexus and jay got away with 1.22v at 49x?

 
Once again, there is a number of reasons ‘why’ something like that happens, from “silicon lottery” (do you really think Intel will send mega-influencers random, and not cherry picked, copy of something for the review?) onwards, so your guess why is as good as mine or anybody else’s. Not to mention none of us watched over your and their shoulder to be able to give even semi-educated guess what is resulting in difference. So I won’t be going down that rabbit’s hole.
 
So once again, you shouldn’t be comparing yourself to them. Instead you should go to every enthusiast forum, search what real world people are typically able to accomplish, and that will give you better idea of what _MIGHT_ be _REALISTICALLY_ possible (I never did extensive research on 10980XE but IIRC figures were typically lower than your dream ones).
 
dmann304And I noticed right around 4.6 4.7 It's starts to really heat up even at 1.2v It's starts to heat up at 4,6 it scores over 10k in R20. Over three thousand points higher than when it was at 4,8. Seems to be a huge gap between those two frequencies.

 
First, every chip has such behavior, that as frequency starts reaching its limit temperature will start increasing exponentially and once you pass certain spot temperature will be getting out of control even at smallest frequency/workload increase and in turn chip will be throttling down.
 
Second, “Right around 4.6 4.7 it starts to really heat up”. You are not providing almost any information one can use to help you. _WHAT_ is the temperature after an hour run? 80? 85? 90? Temperature of what? Average of cores? Max core? Package? Is that at 4.6 or 4.7? Are those temperatures raising because your non-AVX frequency went up or because your effective AVX frequency (base minus offset) went up and, if later, what are your AVX offsets when that happens? Are throttling flags raised when that happens and which ones? We can’t read your mind.
 
Next, something is telling me you aren’t following tuning instructions I earlier spent time to write up for you. If you did and used OCCT to figure out maximum non-AVX/AVX2/AVX3 frequencies chip still has fused voltages for and at which OCCT doesn’t show overheating nor throttling back even after an hour then Cinebench wouldn’t either.
 
Last, but not least, “… even at 1.2v … and what about the Vin score 1.8v??” … Didn’t I say one should leave voltages on auto while finding upper limit of frequencies for which Intel has baked (aka fused) voltage tables into the CPU? One should start manually tweaking voltages only once one starts using multipliers for which CPU doesn’t internally have voltage table or if tests show system is unstable when using ‘auto’ voltage while not exceeding fused multipliers. What does HWInfo64 say are fused ratio limits and AVX offsets for your CPU? Find out what is maximum still fused multiplier you can reach with still fused voltages first, everything else later. Otherwise throwing voltages at random against the wall to see what might stick is a waste of time spinning in the circles chasing the tail.
 
dmann304I don't think it's an all core at 48x with avx offsets of 3 …

 
Either I am misunderstanding what you said or you are misunderstanding what I said. What I am saying is: If you use ‘per core’ ratios and set each core individually to different multiplier (say best one to 45x and worst one to 41x) and use, for example, 3 for AVX2 offset moment you hit AVX2 workload you won’t end up with 4.2 for best core and 3.8 for worst, it will end up 4.2 for _ALL_.
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/17 19:56:42 (permalink)
Very helpful post.  I seem to errors when the cpu is at 4.7 offset of 4, in occt, and hits mid 90's on tile renders but mid 80's in occt.  It seems
with a very large core count cpu, 4.5 at auto seems to be happy, and i agrree most you tubers aren't giving real life experience with these things.
I might have to stick with settings at auto and call it a day.  even with a 420 rad push pull, it isn't enough to push an XE at what i want. But I'm starting to see the error in my way. And I'm thinking it's boiling down to the power supply. Being six years old from corsair (rm1000), So have a new one arriving today. Hopefully that resolves a lot of issues. Because I didn't notice when I was running. Prime ninety five with no errors , All the Lights in the system went out in the power to be started with no blue screen or message which I'm thinking. It could be a deteriorating power supply.
post edited by dmann304 - 2024/02/18 06:28:23
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dmann304
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Re: 10980XE on X299 Dark 2024/02/19 19:09:45 (permalink)
Very stable, and happy with 4.7.  Run 1.265v, 32mesh, avx offset of 3, and xmp with tight subs.
new corsair 1200 PSU Shift.
 
However, i heard if you populate PCI-ex slots with 3 nvme cards, and usb card, its recommended to
add additional power to PCI-ex when overcloking, but of the pulll from the lanes, 
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