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Intel Statement on Stability Issues: "Motherboard Makers to Blame"

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rjohnson11
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2024/04/29 04:30:54 (permalink)
https://www.techpowerup.com/321959/intel-statement-on-stability-issues-motherboard-makers-to-blame
 
A couple of weeks ago, we reported on NVIDIA directing users of Intel's 13th Generation Raptor Lake and 14th Generation Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs to consult Intel for any issues with system stability. Motherboard makers, by default, often run the CPU outside of Intel's recommended specifications, overvolting the CPU through modifying voltage curves, automatic overclocks, and removing power limits.

Today, we learned that Igor's Lab has obtained a statement from Intel that the company prepared for motherboard OEMs regarding the issues multiple users report. Intel CPUs come pre-programmed with a stock voltage curve. When motherboard makers remove power limits and automatically adjust voltage curves and frequency targets, the CPU can be pushed outside its safe operating range, possibly causing system instability. Intel has set up a dedicated website for users to report their issues and offer support. Manufacturers like GIGABYTE have already issued new BIOS updates for users to achieve maximum stability, which incidentally has recent user reports of still being outside Intel spec, setting PL2 to 188 W, loadlines to 1.7/1.7 and current limit to 249 A. While MSI provided a blog post tutorial for stability. ASUS has published updated BIOS for its motherboards to reflect on this Intel baseline spec as well. You can read the statement from Intel in the quote below.
 
"Intel has observed that this issue may be related to out of specification operating conditions resulting in sustained high voltage and frequency during periods of elevated heat.

Analysis of affected processors shows some parts experience shifts in minimum operating voltages which may be related to operation outside of Intel specified operating conditions.

While the root cause has not yet been identified, Intel has observed the majority of reports of this issue are from users with unlocked/overclock capable motherboards.

Intel has observed 600/700 Series chipset boards often set BIOS defaults to disable thermal and power delivery safeguards designed to limit processor exposure to sustained periods of high voltage and frequency, for example:
  • Disabling Current Excursion Protection (CEP)
  • Enabling the IccMax Unlimited bit
  • Disabling Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) and/or Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (eTVB)
  • Additional settings which may increase the risk of system instability:
  • Disabling C-states
  • Using Windows Ultimate Performance mode
  • Increasing PL1 and PL2 beyond Intel recommended limits
Intel requests system and motherboard manufacturers to provide end users with a default BIOS profile that matches Intel recommended settings.

Intel strongly recommends customer's default BIOS settings should ensure operation within Intel's recommended settings.

In addition, Intel strongly recommends motherboard manufacturers to implement warnings for end users alerting them to any unlocked or overclocking feature usage.

Intel is continuing to actively investigate this issue to determine the root cause and will provide additional updates as relevant information becomes available.

Intel will be publishing a public statement regarding issue status and Intel recommended BIOS setting recommendations targeted for May 2024."
 
Hopefully the new BIOs releases will allow greater stability. 

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    donta1979
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    Re: Intel Statement on Stability Issues: "Motherboard Makers to Blame" 2024/05/02 19:45:50 (permalink)
    It's actually not the motherboard makers, remmeber back in 2022 Igor's Labs Igor posted the LGA1700 mounting hardware causing a lid bow, the whole rising temps, instability, vcore flying out of control, other shenanigans?

    Well intel has never fixed the bow and has said it is functioning as intended. They are willing to die on that hill, if you do some more reading the baseline profiles like I have said all over facebook also would not be stable, due the lid bowing excessive pressure is put on the processor itself that is where the vcore is flying up on its own, the two parts of the lid that come up your IMC is on one side and your PCIE controller on the chip is on the other thus the whole nvidia saying talk to intel it's not our vram. So intel is pointing fingers at everyone else instead of taking responsibility and fixing it. The reviewers have let them get away with it, as much as the motherboard companies are just willing to lay down and take it.
    You install a cooler/aio/block correctly without a correction bracket the issue could take years to manifest itself or at least until you take your cooling solution off then it starts at a rapid pace. Or you just put on a correction bracket and enjoy your intel cpu like some of us learned the hard way since 12th gen, 13th gen and now 14th gen.

    AMD is just as guilty, but at least their flaw can be covered up with a software update via the bios limiting the voltage their chip cannot handle, that they also did poor communication to the board partners on, was almost like lets just wait and see let it happen our chips will run the faster kits we will do better, stuff will go wrong, we will blame the motherboard makers, then release the bios fix. The customer gets screwed with poor 1% lows and or frame time. They are sort of dropping their prices because the flaw is getting more well known and they are trying to dump inventory before the next gen, attempt to keep their stock prices from tanking. Also the reviewers not pushing it harder and the motherboard companies once again laying down and taking it are at fault as well as us consumers. 

    I miss the days when stuff was fully tested R&Ded the most it could be before it made it on the shelves for us to buy, sadly those days are over....

    I am also laughing at the reviewers most of them about 99.99% of them because the Ram QVL list are mostly a scam, its like these companies are popping in the ram and going does it post? Boot? Does it crash? Pass Memtest? oh yes on all of that, should we run an actual stability test? Na just add it to the QVL list because a lot of these boards cannot run some of these kits if someone's life depended on it even with a handpicked golden sample board and cpu in xmp/expo like the claims these companies make.
    post edited by donta1979 - 2024/05/02 19:48:16

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    a213m
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    Re: Intel Statement on Stability Issues: "Motherboard Makers to Blame" 2024/05/08 14:02:03 (permalink)
    Not all 13th & 14th gen CPUs are bad. I never had any stability issues with my 13900K since upgrading once stable setting were dialed in. Mine is delidded, contact-framed, and watercooled. I had unlocked power limits and applied negative offset of -0.040V across all cores. I didn't overclock mine, and only adjusted memory clocks and timings. Temps after Cinebench 10 minute run max out at ~81 degrees, max core voltage is at 1.382V, while stock VIDs cap at 1.454V. And my CPU isn't particularly great, its SP score is only 95, which is below average, according to Igor's Lab's report. I have 14900K delidded, sitting waiting to upgrade, I just don't feel like taking the loop apart.

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