YURIIII
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I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this? The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
post edited by YURIIII - 2020/09/25 10:13:41
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Mkilbride2599
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:35:27
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What is wrong with those?
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SprayingMango
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:37:40
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Mkilbride2599
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:43:09
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Sounds it. Makes me pretty wary. I feel like this has to be some kind of mixup or sometihng. No way would all these AIBS screw it up. Apparently pretty much AIB uses POSCAPs, except the Strix.
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jsteedman
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:49:59
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Mkilbride2599
Sounds it. Makes me pretty wary. I feel like this has to be some kind of mixup or sometihng. No way would all these AIBS screw it up. Apparently pretty much AIB uses POSCAPs, except the Strix.
Steve from GN didn't have to downclock his either... 3090 FTW3 uses 2 MLCC which according to the theory seems fine. But also for the record a 3080 FTW3 ultra with 6 POSCAPS briefly held the HoF score for Port Royal and LN2 so there's that too...
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nedh84
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:50:18
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YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
It says that even the FE cards use POSCAP but they balance it with 2 MLCC. This seems to prevent problems. I think we need to see if EVGA are using ALL POSCAP or simply a mix(which would work fine).
Use this EVGA associates code for 5-10% off EVGA products: O6ULOQ7IVRY9IJ5
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vgerik1234
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:52:54
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It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M 
post edited by vgerik1234 - 2020/09/25 10:56:26
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INGREDCOLD
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:55:10
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MMMMM post crap interesting
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INGREDCOLD
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:56:32
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Ryzen 5800x X570 Aorus Master EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra 32g Ballistix 3600 2tb Intel 660 500mb WD Black EVGA 850 Super nova EVGA CLC 240mm
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kswildman
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 10:58:12
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jpotter
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:05:05
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There are already three other posts about this, but I agree it is a concern. It looks like most cards are going out with at least two MLCC, so it should be fine.
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Viper97
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:05:33
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vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?
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Nostyke
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:07:51
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from reddit :
So, as an Electronics Engineer and PCB Designer I feel I have to react here.
The point that Igor makes about improper power design causing instability is a very plausible one. Especially with first production runs where it indeed could be the case that they did not have the time/equipment/driver etc to do proper design verification.
However, concluding from this that a POSCAP = bad and MLCC = good is waaay to harsh and a conclusion you cannot make.
Both POSCAPS (or any other 'solid polymer caps' and MLCC's have there own characteristics and use cases.
Some (not all) are ('+' = pos, '-' = neg):
MLCC:
+ cheap
+ small
+ high voltage rating in small package
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
+ high capacitance in small package
+ good at high frequencies
- prone to cracking
- prone to piezo effect
- bad temperature characteristics
- DC bias (capacitance changes a lot under different voltages)
POSCAP:
- cheap more expensive
- bigger
- lower voltage rating
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
- less good at high frequencies
+ mechanically very strong (no MLCC cracking)
+ not prone to piezo effect
+ very stable over temperature
+ no DC bias (capacitance very stable at different voltages)
As you can see, both have there strengths and weaknesses and one is not particularly better or worse then the other. It all depends.
In this case, most of these 3080 and 3090 boards may use the same GPU (with its requirements) but they also have very different power circuits driving the chips on the cards.
Each power solution has its own characteristics and behavior and thus its own requirements in terms of capacitors used.
Thus, you cannot simply say: I want the card with only MLCC's because that is a good design.
It is far more likely they just could/would not have enough time and/or resources to properly verify their designs and thus where not able to do proper adjustments to their initial component choices.
This will very likely work itself out in time. For now, just buy the card that you like and if it fails, simply claim warranty. Let them fix the problem and down draw to many conclusions based on incomplete information and (educated) guess work.
post edited by Nostyke - 2020/09/25 11:10:20
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Monolyth
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:17:14
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This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.
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vgerik1234
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:17:33
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Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?
Next day air, they shipped it out last night @~6PM. With the associate's code it was basically free next-day shipping.
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kevinc313
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:21:32
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YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names. They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps. Or "ceramic chip caps" or "tantalum surface mount caps" etc. Sweet baby Jesus.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/09/25 11:24:45
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YURIIII
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:26:37
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kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names. They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.
Thanks, English is not my first language. All I know that people are already downclocking their 6-piece of ****-cap Trinitys and 5+1 Trios.
post edited by YURIIII - 2020/09/25 11:35:01
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kevinc313
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:27:16
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Monolyth
This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.
There is virtually no cost difference between 10 ceramics and one larger Tantalum cap, and we're talking well under a buck in Asia. But any sane mfg would rather put on one big part vs. 10 small ones, if they can.
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kevinc313
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:28:19
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YURIIII
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names. They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.
Thanks, English is not my first language.
I blame the article and the public's ignorance of electronics.
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HawkOculus
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:28:27
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vgerik1234
Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?
Next day air, they shipped it out last night @~6PM. With the associate's code it was basically free next-day shipping.
You were able to enter an associates code during yesterday’s debacle, and yet I wasn’t even able to get my address submission to go through on EVGA’s dumpster tier website. What a load of garbage.
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Frankfraga
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:35:08
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This will hit people hard if true. Hopefully RMA’s would only be giving to single card address and royally screw over the bots that pilled up cards leaving them with trash they can’t sell.
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Monolyth
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:36:17
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kevinc313
Monolyth
This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.
There is virtually no cost difference between 10 ceramics and one larger Tantalum cap, and we're talking well under a buck in Asia.
But any sane mfg would rather put on one big part vs. 10 small ones, if they can.
Thank you for the information, it's interesting to know. I just don't want people making big buying decisions based on a theoretical root cause. EDIT - I do have a 3090 FTW on the way sometime today so if there are issues that require RMA...dat stinks. Then again I've also still got my handy 2080 TI Hybrid sitting on my shelf just in case. ;)
post edited by Monolyth - 2020/09/25 11:38:35
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AHowes
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:41:24
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HawkOculus
vgerik1234
Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?
Next day air, they shipped it out last night @~6PM. With the associate's code it was basically free next-day shipping.
You were able to enter an associates code during yesterday’s debacle, and yet I wasn’t even able to get my address submission to go through on EVGA’s dumpster tier website.
What a load of garbage.
Dude the code is saved to a cookie and should be added in automatically during checkout. No one should need to add the code if done right by clicking someone's code earlier on.
Intel i9 9900K @ 5.2Ghz Single HUGE Custom Water Loop. Asus Z390 ROG Extreme XI MB G.Skill Trident Z 32GB (4x8GB) 4266MHz DDR4 EVGA 2080ti K|NGP|N w/ Hydro Copper block. 34" Dell Alienware AW3418DW 1440 Ultra Wide GSync Monitor Thermaltake Core P7 Modded w/ 2x EK Dual D5 pump top,2 x EK XE 480 2X 360 rads.1 Corsair 520 Rad.
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kevinc313
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:42:10
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Monolyth
kevinc313
Monolyth
This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.
There is virtually no cost difference between 10 ceramics and one larger Tantalum cap, and we're talking well under a buck in Asia.
But any sane mfg would rather put on one big part vs. 10 small ones, if they can.
Thank you for the information, it's interesting to know.
I just don't want people making big buying decisions based on a theoretical root cause.
EDIT - I do have a 3090 FTW on the way sometime today so if there are issues that require RMA...dat stinks. Then again I've also still got my handy 2080 TI Hybrid sitting on my shelf just in case. ;)
Wait, are you saying Reddit is flipping out over one article theorizing about a minor issue? I'm shocked. It should take a competent solderer about 15-30 minutes to remove one of those tantalums and install 10 of the ceramics, with very little risk to the PCB. Yeah some people might have to RMA cards for it but it's an easy fix.
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ehabash1
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 11:58:37
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99% of the population dont even know what solder means.
This will be a big problem for many aibs
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cneuhauser
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 12:04:06
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kevinc313
YURIIII
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names. They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.
Thanks, English is not my first language.
I blame the article and the public's ignorance of electronics.
Well why don't you educate us 'guru'....
Entho Evolv Anthracite Grey ASUS ROG E-Gaming X299 i7 9800x 4.8ghz on water (Cuplex Vision block) EVGA RTX 2080 XC Ultra / Water / EK Block GSkill Trident Z - 32gig 2x Samsung 1TB SSD Evo Intel SSD 730 Series 240GB Windows 10 Ultimate EVGA 1600 SuperNova T2 Samsung G7 Faker 32" 240hz monitor Asus ROG Swift PG329Q 175hz monitor SteelSeries Arctis Pro+DAC B&W 801s, Driven by Sumo Amp via DAC
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arestavo
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 12:08:00
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HawkOculus
You were able to enter an associates code during yesterday’s debacle, and yet I wasn’t even able to get my address submission to go through on EVGA’s dumpster tier website.
What a load of garbage.
I actually applied the associates 5% off GPU code the night prior. It added it to my account while on my main rig, and still carried over to my phone when I was able to (finally) finish checking out while on the road. I might have gotten checked out faster had I not had to reapply my 172 EVGA bucks several different times over the course of an hour due to web page timeouts. I used Sajin's link in his signature block from one of his forum posts.
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kevinc313
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 12:08:52
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cneuhauser
kevinc313
YURIIII
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names. They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.
Thanks, English is not my first language.
I blame the article and the public's ignorance of electronics.
Well why don't you educate us 'guru'....
I already did. You're welcome.
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Axejess
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 12:23:51
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Nostyke
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Re: FTW3 POSCAP Capacitors?
2020/09/25 12:35:48
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Axejess
Just saw this on redit seems also 2 "good" ones on the 3080 so maybe it's all fine anyway :)
https://imgur.com/a/IMVFdTP
pfhew you singlehandedly just made my heart beat again ty. can you link the post youre referring to?
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