Kaveman42
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:20:56
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Cool, I’m looking forward to your write up. I may do this too.
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:35:29
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EDIT: Just realized I put Cyberpunk numbers on the left not PR, fixing the post... Edit 2: Fixed the dat & the picture. Okay now I want 12.6W/mK pads on everything :( Note this is Port Royal Stress Test, so about a 36 minute load, despite HIGHER overclocks & more power draw, look at them temps:  The right is with two sets of 1mm pads (stacked to be 2mm thick) on the single VRAM chip by itself, and on the 3 chips opposite side of the die from that, with some extra pads on other VRM/boxes I thought would appreciate some cooling (1.5mm pads on all of those). So we're seeing a reduction from stock of: GPU: -3C GPU2/Die: -5C Mem1: -12.3C !!!!!!!! Mem2: -8.2C Mem3: -1.7C Mem Junction Temp: -4C :( This has to be a face-side chip PWR1: -3.2C PWR2: -4.5C PWR3: -5.4C PWR4: -4.3C PWR5: -4.3C Yeah I really want to redo all the backplate stuff with the 12.6W/mK stuff now, but it's a fair bit more expensive... the 85 x 45 x 1mm bit I got (which I had to double stack to use) was a smuch as the 200 x 200 x 2mm sheet I got of the 6W/mK stuff :-\ I guess this all but confirms Mem1 on the Kingpin is back-side VRAM specifically either the single chip by itself, or the 3 chips near the "NVLink teeth/tubes" side of the card. Cuz there's no way I'd be seeing that gigantic of a reduction in temps otherwise I don't think. I'll post up pictures of the full layout of pads I'm running now with size indications in a while, going to add the information to the 2nd post of the thread too.
post edited by Dabadger84 - 2021/02/24 17:48:08
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vulcZ
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:47:02
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Dabadger84
EDIT: Just realized I put Cyberpunk numbers on the left not PR, fixing the post...
Okay now I want 12.6W/mK pads on everything :(
Note this is Port Royal Stress Test, so about a 36 minute load, despite HIGHER overclocks & more power draw, look at them temps:
The right is with two sets of 1mm pads (stacked to be 2mm thick) on the single VRAM chip by itself, and on the 3 chips opposite side of the die from that, with some extra pads on other VRM/boxes I thought would appreciate some cooling (1.5mm pads on all of those).
So we're seeing a reduction from stock of:
GPU: -2C
GPU2/Die: -2.1C
Mem1: -13.8C !!!!!!!!
Mem2: -8.4C
Mem3: -3.4C
Mem Junction Temp: -2C :( This has to be a face-side chip
PWR1: -2.4C
PWR2: -4.4C
PWR3: -6.5C
PWR4: -3.8C
PWR5: -4.3C
Yeah I really want to redo all the backplate stuff with the 12.6W/mK stuff now, but it's a fair bit more expensive... the 85 x 45 x 1mm bit I got (which I had to double stack to use) was a smuch as the 200 x 200 x 2mm sheet I got of the 6W/mK stuff :-\
I guess this all but confirms Mem1 on the Kingpin is back-side VRAM specifically either the single chip by itself, or the 3 chips near the "NVLink teeth/tubes" side of the card. Cuz there's no way I'd be seeing that gigantic of a reduction in temps otherwise I don't think.
I'll post up pictures of the full layout of pads I'm running now with size indications in a while, going to add the information to the 2nd post of the thread too.
Very interesting results. I'm actually quite surprised memory junction didn't go down any lower than that, then again that's a reading that's not from any surface sensor, and rather a sensor internal to the memory, so I am not sure it can be pointed to any single memory IC. But maybe I'm wrong? Besides, your memory junction temps are pretty good already, at least for Port Royal. I'm sure a lot of miners are watching this thread thinking if this will improve their memory junction temps while mining :)
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vulcZ
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:47:53
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Also, I'm excited to look at your guide! I finally have all my stuff. I have 3mm pads, 2mm pads, 1.5mm pads, and double-sided .05mm pads LOL. Also a bunch of heatsinks and a Noctua fan, I'm ready to rock! :D
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:53:33
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vulcZ
Very interesting results.
I'm actually quite surprised memory junction didn't go down any lower than that, then again that's a reading that's not from any surface sensor, and rather a sensor internal to the memory, so I am not sure it can be pointed to any single memory IC. But maybe I'm wrong?
Besides, your memory junction temps are pretty good already, at least for Port Royal. I'm sure a lot of miners are watching this thread thinking if this will improve their memory junction temps while mining :)
Corrected some bad data in my post with the informations in it. Only slight differences but I wanted to make sure I was doing apples to apples comparison in terms of what was being run - Cyberpunk numbers, which is what I had on the image originally for stock, are slightly warmer than what I level out at on the PR Stress Test. From what I understand, the Memory Junction Temp is whatever the hottest internal temperature is from any given memory module, meaning they all apparently have internal readings? Or maybe it's just one chip's internal reading - if that's the case, I would love to know WHERE that chip is for the 3090. If that -4C junction temp translates to mining that would bring my mining memory maximum temp down to 80C - I think. Not sure and I CBA to test it lol
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KickAssCop
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 17:54:12
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Link to the 12.6mK pads. I can’t seem to find them. Also have you tried thermal paste and trying to gunk it up so that it touches the backplate?
PC: Ryzen 5900X | X570 Tomahawk | 3090 FTW3 Ultra | CX 55, G7 32 | 660P 1 TB, P1 1 TB, EVO 850 1 TB, EVO 840 500 GB, 830 256 GB, MX500 1 TB | TridentZ NEO RGB 32 GB 3733 C16 | Supernova 1300W G2 | P500A | H150i PRO | K70 | G502Consoles: PS5, XSX, PS4, Switch X 2
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vulcZ
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 18:18:17
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Dabadger84
vulcZ
Very interesting results.
I'm actually quite surprised memory junction didn't go down any lower than that, then again that's a reading that's not from any surface sensor, and rather a sensor internal to the memory, so I am not sure it can be pointed to any single memory IC. But maybe I'm wrong?
Besides, your memory junction temps are pretty good already, at least for Port Royal. I'm sure a lot of miners are watching this thread thinking if this will improve their memory junction temps while mining :)
Corrected some bad data in my post with the informations in it. Only slight differences but I wanted to make sure I was doing apples to apples comparison in terms of what was being run - Cyberpunk numbers, which is what I had on the image originally for stock, are slightly warmer than what I level out at on the PR Stress Test.
From what I understand, the Memory Junction Temp is whatever the hottest internal temperature is from any given memory module, meaning they all apparently have internal readings? Or maybe it's just one chip's internal reading - if that's the case, I would love to know WHERE that chip is for the 3090.
If that -4C junction temp translates to mining that would bring my mining memory maximum temp down to 80C - I think. Not sure and I CBA to test it lol
80C during mining is fantastic TBH. Worth going through all this hassle :D
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 19:16:10
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KickAssCop
Link to the 12.6mK pads. I can’t seem to find them. Also have you tried thermal paste and trying to gunk it up so that it touches the backplate?
I can't do the paste thing, too much of a mess to clean up. I'd rather do direct thermal pad to heatsinks & remove the backplate than do that. The 12.6W/mK pads are apparently 12.8W/mK, in my 28 hours since last real sleep I mis-remembered... There are a few brands that offer that conductivity, I'm trying to find one that does 2mm pads because stacking 1mm pads is probably not a great idea for longer term use: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CGL7MLN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Edit: Yeah they're out of 1mm now too, they only have 0.5mm & 1.5mm... so yeah, look for 12.8 or 12.6W/mK pads in various places, I plan to.
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iamjanco
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 20:26:51
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While you can beat a dead horse as much as you like,
you might have a tough time arguing with one.
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menko2
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 21:57:14
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Dabadger84
menko2
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
3) question about the stick tape...does it hurt the heat transfer much?
I have to decide now between this two options because once I take out the stock tape I cannot put it back.
Is it thermal tape or regular tape? If it's regular I wouldn't use it, if it's thermal tape, it'll be better, at least in my experience, although someone else had bare heatsinks on their backplate & also saw temperature improvements. The tape is so thin that the heat can go through it pretty well most of the time.
What about the fans. Which one is better option? Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall. I have two options for this: 1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top. 2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 21:59:22
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☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2021/10/04 14:24:58
So, I will be doing some fine tuning, might redo all of the 2mm pads on the card eventually to make things neater, but here goes! Say hello underneath the Kingpin backplate, and for reference, a shot of what's on the other side (right image is not of my card, but an example) :   Now a brief synopsis of what we're trying to cool, which is pretty much all the important things (this image is not of my card) :  Basically, everything on the backplate areas of those components is going to be running "hot", especially the VRAM chips. So if you flip all that over, you get, roughly, this (this image is also not of my card) :  Removing the backplate is VERY SIMPLE on the Kingpin other than one step - it's 9 simple screws. You will have to use some force to get it to come off the first time because there is a sticky/rubbery pad at the bottom of the card above one of the power plugs near the OLED LCD display, that is "taped" to the backplate & PCB, this is the hardest part of removing the backplate! In more detail, there are secondary places you can do thermal pads on, if you want to, but they're not "required". Now for sizes, all you will need for the BACKPLATE AREA ONLY (keep that in mind) is 2mm & 1.5mm thermal pads. Both of the following pictures have a "Legend", Green Boxes indicate 2mm pads, Red boxes indicate 1.5mm thermal pads (you CAN use 2mm here, but it's not required... if you want to just buy 1 size, you can just use 2 everywhere, the VRM boxes are thicker than the VRAM chips so they need less thick pads) - the one blue box on picture 1, you can do either or, I did 2mm because I wanted to make sure it's all transferred heat wise, as the VRM on the other side of that box on picture one, is a memory VRM, that's sandwiched between everything - I would assume it runs hot by proxy. The purple boxes on picture 1 are places I may add 1.5mm pads later, unsure of what those power stages or whatever they are produce enough heat to bother, but with the fact that the entire back area of my card is heatsinked there, why not eh? Lastly, the light blue is somewhere else I'll probably put 2mm when I redo everything with fresh pads that are cut better:  Forgive the messyness, but here's my card's current basic layout.  And that's it for that. I'm sure someone else can do a much neater job, as could I now that I know how to deal with thermal pads properly so they don't get all squirrely. Once you're done with that, you just need heatsinks to transfer that heat out of the backplate that your new thermal pads are now transferring to it. My recommendation is something in the 10-12mm height range. I use the small ones to "corral" the big ones so they can't randomly move, since most of them are on Thermal Pads and not actually secure currently. Picture of the current heatsink layout:  And I have 1mm thermal pads under the big ones currently, though I may thermal tape them later, or change them to double-sided adhesive 0.5mm thermal pads that are also 6W/mK. Edit: I forgot to add this tidbit, some results. Before & after, this is a run of Port Royal Stress Test, which is a 36 minute RT load that heats up the card pretty well, I try to always control ambient during it as much as possible so that temps are comparable. The only difference that's of significance between the Before temps and the After, is that the AFTER has a +1000MHz Memory OC and higher GPU clock/voltage: Rescources: Thermal pads I used (mostly) are these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B086VZ9YW3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 6W/mK and not dual-sided adhesive... double sided adhesive versions are available. Their 1.5mm is currently out of stock. Heatsinks: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YWL7DFS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 big ones (40 x 40 x 11mm) - this is a HUGE amount of heatsinks, more than you will need, but I didn't bother looking for a smaller pack, because they're fairly cheap - quality is good though. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B084X4VMP9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 small silver ones (various sizes, see listing on Amazon) https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BDKN3XV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and small black ones with Thermal Tape pre applied, if you'd rather go that route - these are20 x 20 x 10mm, you will need at least 2-3 packs of these to do the whole back of the card. Please let me know if there's anything else I should add to this!
post edited by Dabadger84 - 2021/02/24 22:07:26
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 22:04:34
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menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
3) question about the stick tape...does it hurt the heat transfer much?
I have to decide now between this two options because once I take out the stock tape I cannot put it back.
Is it thermal tape or regular tape? If it's regular I wouldn't use it, if it's thermal tape, it'll be better, at least in my experience, although someone else had bare heatsinks on their backplate & also saw temperature improvements. The tape is so thin that the heat can go through it pretty well most of the time.
What about the fans. Which one is better option?
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
Personally I would try it WITH the tape first, see how the temps are, and if you're unhappy with the difference, nix the tape - cuz once it's off, it's off, I would definitely test with it on first. Even though I NOW have better temperatures than when I had mine taped on, I got the second best set of temps I've seen when the heatsinks were still just thermal taped on to the backplate. I think at the point I'm at with how cool my temps are, I'm reaching a point beyond diminishing returns in terms of continuing to add more cooling resulting in better temps. If I had a full coverage block with great pads on the face side, I wonder how low my temps would be with the backside being in this state.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
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menko2
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 22:42:22
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Dabadger84
menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
3) question about the stick tape...does it hurt the heat transfer much?
I have to decide now between this two options because once I take out the stock tape I cannot put it back.
Is it thermal tape or regular tape? If it's regular I wouldn't use it, if it's thermal tape, it'll be better, at least in my experience, although someone else had bare heatsinks on their backplate & also saw temperature improvements. The tape is so thin that the heat can go through it pretty well most of the time.
What about the fans. Which one is better option?
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
Personally I would try it WITH the tape first, see how the temps are, and if you're unhappy with the difference, nix the tape - cuz once it's off, it's off, I would definitely test with it on first. Even though I NOW have better temperatures than when I had mine taped on, I got the second best set of temps I've seen when the heatsinks were still just thermal taped on to the backplate.
I think at the point I'm at with how cool my temps are, I'm reaching a point beyond diminishing returns in terms of continuing to add more cooling resulting in better temps. If I had a full coverage block with great pads on the face side, I wonder how low my temps would be with the backside being in this state.
Ok I went to buy stock thermal tape buy and the conductivity i can find 1,5 W / m-k with 0,2mm thickness. Regular thermal tape is 0,5 think and 6 W / m-k. I don't think the heatsinks will move even that is non-stick. Which one will be better from your experience?
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 22:53:14
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menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
3) question about the stick tape...does it hurt the heat transfer much?
I have to decide now between this two options because once I take out the stock tape I cannot put it back.
Is it thermal tape or regular tape? If it's regular I wouldn't use it, if it's thermal tape, it'll be better, at least in my experience, although someone else had bare heatsinks on their backplate & also saw temperature improvements. The tape is so thin that the heat can go through it pretty well most of the time.
What about the fans. Which one is better option?
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
Personally I would try it WITH the tape first, see how the temps are, and if you're unhappy with the difference, nix the tape - cuz once it's off, it's off, I would definitely test with it on first. Even though I NOW have better temperatures than when I had mine taped on, I got the second best set of temps I've seen when the heatsinks were still just thermal taped on to the backplate.
I think at the point I'm at with how cool my temps are, I'm reaching a point beyond diminishing returns in terms of continuing to add more cooling resulting in better temps. If I had a full coverage block with great pads on the face side, I wonder how low my temps would be with the backside being in this state.
Ok I went to buy stock thermal tape buy and the conductivity i can find 1,5 W / m-k with 0,2mm thickness.
Regular thermal tape is 0,5 think and 6 W / m-k. I don't think the heatsinks will move even that is non-stick.
Which one will be better from your experience?
To put the heatsinks on? Definitely get the 6W/mK stuff - 1.5W/mK is literally as good/bad as some Thermal Tape so there'd be no point in removing the thermal tape to do that. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZY1JNJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That's the thermal tape I got, only used a little bit of it on the first 2 big heatsinks (to hold the others in place, and because they're over the front-side VRM which I believe doesn't need AS MUCH help running cooler, could be wrong about that though) Edit: This just made me realize I got the lower conductivity cheaper stuff instead of the slightly more expensive 6W/mK tape. RIP. lol
post edited by Dabadger84 - 2021/02/24 22:55:26
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213NSX
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 23:03:15
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menko2
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/24 23:47:58
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Dabadger84
menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Dabadger84
menko2
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
3) question about the stick tape...does it hurt the heat transfer much?
I have to decide now between this two options because once I take out the stock tape I cannot put it back.
Is it thermal tape or regular tape? If it's regular I wouldn't use it, if it's thermal tape, it'll be better, at least in my experience, although someone else had bare heatsinks on their backplate & also saw temperature improvements. The tape is so thin that the heat can go through it pretty well most of the time.
What about the fans. Which one is better option?
Ok I'll do with fans and 10mm tall.
I have two options for this:
1) leaving the double sided stick tape so the heatsinks don't move when I place the fans on top.
2) without stick tape and put a high speed fan siting in the side next to the rear fan blowing into them. My rear fan is intake so air will be moving in the same direction towards the heatsinks.
Personally I would try it WITH the tape first, see how the temps are, and if you're unhappy with the difference, nix the tape - cuz once it's off, it's off, I would definitely test with it on first. Even though I NOW have better temperatures than when I had mine taped on, I got the second best set of temps I've seen when the heatsinks were still just thermal taped on to the backplate.
I think at the point I'm at with how cool my temps are, I'm reaching a point beyond diminishing returns in terms of continuing to add more cooling resulting in better temps. If I had a full coverage block with great pads on the face side, I wonder how low my temps would be with the backside being in this state.
Ok I went to buy stock thermal tape buy and the conductivity i can find 1,5 W / m-k with 0,2mm thickness.
Regular thermal tape is 0,5 think and 6 W / m-k. I don't think the heatsinks will move even that is non-stick.
Which one will be better from your experience?
To put the heatsinks on? Definitely get the 6W/mK stuff - 1.5W/mK is literally as good/bad as some Thermal Tape so there'd be no point in removing the thermal tape to do that.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZY1JNJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That's the thermal tape I got, only used a little bit of it on the first 2 big heatsinks (to hold the others in place, and because they're over the front-side VRM which I believe doesn't need AS MUCH help running cooler, could be wrong about that though)
Edit: This just made me realize I got the lower conductivity cheaper stuff instead of the slightly more expensive 6W/mK tape. RIP. lol
What about this copper heatsinks instead of aluminum? They look very good in specs and they are much heavier than aluminium for reviewers which is good sign. The only thing I can't find is the height.
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 00:11:50
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menko2What about this copper heatsinks instead of aluminum? They look very good in specs and they are much heavier than aluminium for reviewers which is good sign.
The only thing I can't find is the height.
If I recall correctly, someone has those and they're quite tall/too tall to fit a fan on top of if you have an air CPU cooler or one that has tubes that come out of the bottom of the CPU area.
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menko2
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 00:14:58
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Dabadger84
menko2What about this copper heatsinks instead of aluminum? They look very good in specs and they are much heavier than aluminium for reviewers which is good sign.
The only thing I can't find is the height.
If I recall correctly, someone has those and they're quite tall/too tall to fit a fan on top of if you have an air CPU cooler or one that has tubes that come out of the bottom of the CPU area.
Looking for at the pics they seem to be as tall as the other measurements. It's very square. So I think around 14-15mm tall. Enough to put a thin 15mm fan. They should be pretty good for heat transfer right?
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 00:20:44
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menko2
Looking for at the pics they seem to be as tall as the other measurements. It's very square. So I think around 14-15mm tall. Enough to put a thin 15mm fan.
They should be pretty good for heat transfer right?
Ooooooh I got confused between the ones you're looking at & these: https://smile.amazon.com/Alphacool-Copper-Heatsinks-10mm-10-Pack/dp/B077VL3M2Z/ Those are the ones that are "tall". Probably, but you're going to need several sets to the whole area of the backplate that needs to be done if you're gonna go full-ham on cooling like I have, with them being 14mm x 14mm. The sets I have right now are 40mm x 40mm side by side all the way down with the lower part having 10mm x 10mm on the right so 95mm wide in that part, roughly, then thinner on down to 80mm flat at the NVLink teeth/front VRM part.
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menko2
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 00:39:31
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Dabadger84
menko2
Looking for at the pics they seem to be as tall as the other measurements. It's very square. So I think around 14-15mm tall. Enough to put a thin 15mm fan.
They should be pretty good for heat transfer right?
Ooooooh I got confused between the ones you're looking at & these: https://smile.amazon.com/Alphacool-Copper-Heatsinks-10mm-10-Pack/dp/B077VL3M2Z/ Those are the ones that are "tall".
Probably, but you're going to need several sets to the whole area of the backplate that needs to be done if you're gonna go full-ham on cooling like I have, with them being 14mm x 14mm. The sets I have right now are 40mm x 40mm side by side all the way down with the lower part having 10mm x 10mm on the right so 95mm wide in that part, roughly, then thinner on down to 80mm flat at the NVLink teeth/front VRM part.
Not easy to test the options because it cost money. I have now 40x40x20mm ones and arriving today 40x40x10mm. I can return all this because its amazon. The copper ones not amazon. Do you think that cover the hot-spots Vram and VRM with the copper heatsinks will be better than cover almost the whole backplate with aluminum?
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DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 01:24:20
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Screen shot 100x100x18 no back 2mm thermal pads right on the chips 3000 rpm noctua fan on top 120 mm running at 2500 ish rpm .png)
post edited by DZelmer - 2021/02/25 01:26:58
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 01:24:21
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menko2
Not easy to test the options because it cost money. I have now 40x40x20mm ones and arriving today 40x40x10mm. I can return all this because its amazon. The copper ones not amazon.
Do you think that cover the hot-spots Vram and VRM with the copper heatsinks will be better than cover almost the whole backplate with aluminum?
No, I would work with what you have instead of going for the copper ones because you'll need a lot of them to really be effective. Here's a quote from somewhere that actually knows what they're talking about so I don't mis-explain it: Copper is better at heat transfer and aluminum is better at heat dissipation, so good heatsinks have a copper base that quickly/efficiently gets the heat away from whatever is being cooled, heatpipes that quickly take the heat away from the base, and the heatpipes are attached to aluminum fins that quickly dissipate heat. Elementally speaking, Copper is more dense than Aluminum, so it's better at "removing" and "retaining" heat, but not necessarily dispersing it, because it's denser. So for the use case we're working with, ideally, the heatsinks would have a copper base & aluminum fins. Failing that, I think all aluminum is the best approach. Keep in mind, as analyzed by Buildzoid on a recent video, most likely the GDDR6X is probably only putting out around 55-70W of heat (combined, front & back of the card all together), so the extra "heat transfer" of copper is not going to be a better solution than the superior heat dissipation of the aluminum heatsinks. Also keep in mind, the backplate already HAS a copper heatpipe in it. I'm not sure what the remainder of the backplate is made of (I would assume aluminum), but what we're doing is allowing that backplate to better absorb & the dissipate through the heatsinks, the heat it's dealing with. What you would be doing with the copper ones is, in some areas where the heatpipe contacts, going from chips to pads to copper to aluminum, back to copper again. I think sticking with aluminum is best, especially since you already have them. You can always test them out and if you don't like the results, return the aluminum ones & get the copper instead.
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DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 01:30:41
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Dabadger84
menko2
Not easy to test the options because it cost money. I have now 40x40x20mm ones and arriving today 40x40x10mm. I can return all this because its amazon. The copper ones not amazon.
Do you think that cover the hot-spots Vram and VRM with the copper heatsinks will be better than cover almost the whole backplate with aluminum?
No, I would work with what you have instead of going for the copper ones because you'll need a lot of them to really be effective.
Here's a quote from somewhere that actually knows what they're talking about so I don't mis-explain it:
Copper is better at heat transfer and aluminum is better at heat dissipation, so good heatsinks have a copper base that quickly/efficiently gets the heat away from whatever is being cooled, heatpipes that quickly take the heat away from the base, and the heatpipes are attached to aluminum fins that quickly dissipate heat.
Elementally speaking, Copper is more dense than Aluminum, so it's better at "removing" and "retaining" heat, but not necessarily dispersing it, because it's denser.
So for the use case we're working with, ideally, the heatsinks would have a copper base & aluminum fins. Failing that, I think all aluminum is the best approach.
Keep in mind, as analyzed by Buildzoid on a recent video, most likely the GDDR6X is probably only putting out around 55-70W of heat (combined, front & back of the card all together), so the extra "heat transfer" of copper is not going to be a better solution than the superior heat dissipation of the aluminum heatsinks.
Also keep in mind, the backplate already HAS a copper heatpipe in it. I'm not sure what the remainder of the backplate is made of (I would assume aluminum), but what we're doing is allowing that backplate to better absorb & the dissipate through the heatsinks, the heat it's dealing with. What you would be doing with the copper ones is, in some areas where the heatpipe contacts, going from chips to pads to copper to aluminum, back to copper again. I think sticking with aluminum is best, especially since you already have them.
You can always test them out and if you don't like the results, return the aluminum ones & get the copper instead.
I second that good info!
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DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 01:34:34
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I also have 2 100x69*36 i wanted to try directly on the chips but they wont fit on the ones closest to the pcie slot my chipset cooler is in the way so i went with the 100x100 short ones i had while i mess with the back plate to try and make a nice copper one!
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 02:02:43
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DZelmer
I also have 2 100x69*36 i wanted to try directly on the chips but they wont fit on the ones closest to the pcie slot my chipset cooler is in the way so i went with the 100x100 short ones i had while i mess with the back plate to try and make a nice copper one!
If you manage to get a good solid-copper backplate, make sure you keep us informed on about how much it costs to make, I'd be interested in buying one for sure, especially if you're going to machine in better contact for the important components, ala having contact areas like liquid blocks do, example:  Or just plain have it be flat, at a lower-level to the PCB than the current backplate. The fact that the current backplate sits 1.5mm or so away from the closest components it gets to isn't exactly great for heat-transference via pads. Having something that would have a tolerance of 1mm or less between the important components and where the backplate starts would be amazing. Use .5mm & 1mm high-transfer (12W/mK+) pads, have the backplate be copper to soak it, then mount aluminum fins on the back of the backplate, and you basically just gave the back of your GPU a giant CPU heatsink. lol
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Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 02:12:10
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Ordered a Digital Micrometer cuz I CBA with guestimating on crap anymore. It should be here this Friday (AKA tomorrow, thanks Amazon, hope that happens, I doubt it lol) - so both my double-sided adhesive 6W/mK thermal pads & that should be here Friday, I'll take the card apart, redo the 2mm areas with fresh 2mm pads that are more neatly cut etc, measure stuff while I've got it apart & figure us out exactly what measurements we're dealing with on the height of key components. Plan is to do 2mm everywhere but the VRM power stages or whatever those boxes are on the backplate side of the VRMs, those are definitely more on the 1.5mm pad side... and I don't think I have enough 1.5mm left to redo those, unfortunately. I think the 2mm is squishable enough that it will work, and I got a 200 x 200 pad of the 2mm stuff, so I still got plenty left despite how much I've already used:  O really want to redo the rest of the VRAM with the higher thermally conductive pads, but for now, I can't get ahold of the right size, so that'll have to wait. I kinda just wanna do a solid slab of 2mm thermal pad everywhere except where 1.5mm is needed because of those VRM boxes, but I think that might make removing the backplate even more difficult, tension wise lol At this point I'm already up to having more thermal pads than I do dead space, under the backplate, I think. I really need to get more 1.5mm - I want to do every single one of those VRM boxes just to see if it further lowers my already low VRM temps lol
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DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 02:20:57
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Thats the idea going to prototype in plastic and alu and see how close we can get and how fancy the cnc guy lets me get.
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DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 11:44:22
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Im not sure how warm the vrm and every thing past them get the extra places you put the pads with out the back plate and the fan from the heat sink blowing across them they are only warm to the touch . Especially the stuff past the vrms just bearly warm.
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rangerscott
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 11:53:31
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If your card is install with the back plate up then just skip the outside thermal pads and just use a dab of thermal paste on those little heatsinks. Theyre not going to go anywhere.
post edited by rangerscott - 2021/02/25 11:56:01
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vulcZ
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin) - Get that backside VRAM cool! Also: Thermal Pad size (backplate side)?
2021/02/25 12:35:56
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rangerscott
If your card is install with the back plate up then just skip the outside thermal pads and just use a dab of thermal paste on those little heatsinks. Theyre not going to go anywhere.
I am lowkey tempted to try this because you're right, thermal paste isn't really loose. If the card will be sitting horizontally there is probably zero risk of the heatsinks moving. The only issue would then be attaching a fan to them hehehe
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